if you just gonna leave the flashpoint cause of non spacebarers

[casirabit]

My very first flashpoint was a hard mode and I was upfront with them and they were polite and asked me if I wanted to see the movie. I said if they didn't mind. I had the gear and the augments when I did it on my healer.

 

Some people do not do flashpoints until they are ready to get the comms and that doesn't mean they should be kicked. I know there are some hard modes that might not be advisable to do on your first flashpoint.

 

If a person has the gear then just because they haven't done a flashpoint doesn't mean they are not going to carry their weight.

 

If the group doesn't mind the movies, then watch them. It should be based on the majority not one person. I can go either way but if a person is being rude about spacebarring, then I am going to go with the person that wants to watch the movie, if the person that wants to be rude about watching, then I am going the other direction.

 

Respect and courtesy go a long way.

[Brayla_Sana]

Honestly, this cacophony of drama is why I don't bother with flashpoints.

[IanArgent]

The rules of etiquette change for Hard Mode to a certain extent; but I have some sympathy for folks who are at the skill level and gear level to run Hard-Mode FPs, but haven't run that particular FP before in SM. There's a lot of SM flashpoints without a solo mode, and getting into a specific SM FP is hit-or-miss via GF. So it's plausible that someone is "Ready" for HM content in general without having seen that specific content.

 

(yes, my view here is evolving a little).

[LordGermanicuss]

Anti-social behaviours are "age- inappropriate" actions that harm or lack consideration for the well-being of others. Many people also label behaviour which is deemed contrary to prevailing norms for social conduct as anti-social behaviour.

 

hate to break it to you, but when you have a lack of consideration for others, or contrary to social conduct (IGNORING THE CHOICE OF THE REST OF THE GROUP) you are the one being antisocial. If your going to use a word, know what it means.

 

If the person doesn't speak English, they're not being anti-social, they're just enjoying a game they paid for and oblivious to what you're saying etc. That is the whole point of this is to get ppl to realize 2 things, there are new ppl that haven't seen theses videos and giving that we need new ppl, stop being a jerk about it and 2, APAC servers closed, there are, and there are more coming that do not speak english other than hello.

[LordGermanicuss]

lol I admit that I never would've thought that the person requesting the speed run would be the first threatening to willingly leave. And the tank to boot... Talk about putting the group between a rock and a hard place >_<. I don't envy those that have face that decision. I supposed that's a surefire way to get your point across, assuming one is a crucial class like a tank or heal.

 

I'm so glad that I have a level 50 tank comp, I never have to worry about that, and the HM fp's that I do, I leave anyway because they're not much fun to begin with.

[LordGermanicuss]

That is assuming that the group worked out before hand that it was going to be a spacebar run. That almost never happens. Usually when spacebar is mentioned in a flashpoint it is somewhere midway through it, during cutscene dialogue, when someone starts rudely demanding that other players skip. That is antisocial behavior from entitled brats.

 

I do agree though that if the group works out in the beginning whether to skip or not skip, and it's three votes to one in favor of skipping, the player who wants to watch them should either drop out and find another group or go with the flow. It would be antisocial to stick around but then not skip anyway. Midway through the flashpoint however is too late to work out whether you're skipping, and there is never a time where it is okay to be rude about it or delivered like it is a command.

 

Exactly, and it completely ignores the fact that some don't speak english. I do, but I'm the only person from here that I know that play, that does speak english.

[LordGermanicuss]

Nice transliteration (the spelling of a word using a different language's alphabet)...

 

こんにちは is Japanese for hello

 

Honest question: does SWTOR have the capability to translate into non-latin alphabet languages? If not, then all those players have to at least know their ABCs to chat at all, and I have a hard time believing that a player of an MMO would NEVER want to chat with anyone.

 

No, it doesn't, but many ppl and many computers sold in others countries, come with your native language characters and english on them by default, cheaper and easier than selling diff keyboards, not all, but some brands do this. My wife can say "hi" and "ty all" but that's about it, and there are many others like her. This game marketed itself to many countries and had servers in those countries, if the US players treat them like poo, there will just be fewer players. Sadly, not many APAC players continue to play and support the game going on for years, but the ones that do, came to Harbinger. It's in our collective best interest to not run them off as they pay for sub and get crates too.

[LordGermanicuss]

And how exactly is that such a bad thing? Are you telling me that non Americans do not think only about themselves first?

 

Yes, believe it or not, outside America people have much more empathy.

[LordGermanicuss]

This game is hardly social anymore with KOTFE... The population isn't falling due to the game being "anti-social". It's falling dur to Biowares approach at the game.

 

 

I personally don't want to watch the same cutscenes I have seen dozens of times again as well but I am willing to do it in most circumstances. The exception being Black Talon/ Esseles, those just take too long and there's a solo mode if you want to watch the story;

 

Fyi, solo-mode was not made for people to watch the movies, solo-mode was made because(surprisingly to me), many people like to play solo only, and that keeps them enough of a playerbase from that to make it worthwhile to them. I have about 1.5k FP's under my belt, I don't need to see it again, but I know enough to know that(thankfully) we have a lot of new players and we need to stop taking the approach that everyone has seen them, they are included so that ppl can watch them and people need to grow up and realize that. If I'm in BT with a group that it watching, I just angle my camera so I can see when it's over and tab out.

[Seireeni]

Yes, believe it or not, outside America people have much more empathy.

 

Well, you do keep talking about APAC players on English US servers who don't speak English as their first language, and keep ignoring that there are three servers with English as official language where quite possibly the majority of the players don't speak English as their first language. Europe is an actual place that exists, you know.

[LordGermanicuss]

And we have a winner...

 

The game is the way it is due to Bioware, not the players. The existing Flashpoints are old, the multiplayer content is old, a lot of players have done them all to death.

 

With nothing new to do, the two choices are run the same old stuff, or leave.

 

Those who wish to leave do so, those who don't, run the old stuff, but have zero interest in watching it again.

 

If you're a "new player" to a 4 year old MMO that hasn't had new content in awhile, you perhaps should expect a lot of players to be well seasoned and want to speed run stuff. Perhaps it is on the new players to seek out like minded people to run old content as if it were new.

 

Why should the people who have been here 4 years have to slow down for someone who showed up 2 months ago? It really should be the other way around.

 

---

 

The above of course is beside the point, the fault is with Bioware/EA on no new MMO content and KotFE being a solo game.

 

THIS POST, is a perfect example of the type of ignorance that many Americans have. "It's a 4 year old game", ppl should bend to what the Americans with no jobs that play daily expect. You realize that many people have no idea at all what MMO is or means? They see a cool game advertised or hear about it from someone else and decide to play. Do you honestly think that upon undertaking your first MMO that you have any idea how long it's been running or any kind of norms that are within it? Of course you don't, you're FAR too selfish to think of anyone else, FAR too selfish and narrow minded to even consider how people find their way to the game or where or how they came there, it's all about YOU and your expected experience of the game. The absolute contempt you have for anyone new to the game or to MMO's is EXACTLY why MMO's ride a predictable upwards and downward curve of population. It is your failed expectations of other people. You really make me sick because I fully understand why and how MMO's fail and it's because of ppl like you, with mindsets like you, thinking that everyone is somewhat like you and should do this or that bc of this or that is "normal" to you. YOU and people like you are what cause MMO's to collapse, I know that you'd never admit it, but it's a HUGE part of it.

[LordGermanicuss]

because the game needs new players to continue to thrive.

 

exactly...

[LordGermanicuss]

^ This. It's because we've been here for so long that we should be understanding and helpful to those just starting out. A veteran of 4+ years, who has seen every piece of cinematic & dialogue, should want someone who has just joined to have that same privilege in the hopes that they'll stay and increase the community. Using new players as tools for speed runs and disregarding their enjoyment factor isn't nice in the least.

 

Exactly, it is only those under-achievers in RL that want to achieve "greatness"(LOL) in the game that are like this, the anti-social basement personalities that don't understand that this game, like any other, NEEDS new players or it will die. So many have cried about their former MMO losing ppl and then dying, but they do little to call out the people that are to blame for it.

[LordGermanicuss]

you people are overcomplicating things.

No matter who said what above it still should be like this:

 

Tactical and Solo modes is where you should watch your stories. This is also where you should go if you have yet to complete a said flashpoint before.

 

As for Hardmode its for getting things done fast collecting your commendations and other spoils, story watching has no place here. If you want your story do it in the above mentioned modes where tripling the time of the flasjpoint doesn't make much of a difference.

 

YOU are NOT paying for their sub, HM fp's come with cutscenes/movies INCLUDED right? Yes, they do, and for a reason. Some players progress and get gear fast enough that they may not see all movies, all fp's or all options for a given fp. They pay for the game and whether we like it or not, they have a right to them via PAYING for the game to continue, that's completely ignoring the fact that some have no idea what you're saying bc they don't speak english and ignoring ALL the new players that we have and NEED for the game to continue.

[LordGermanicuss]

I don't understand why some people so easily leave common courtesy and decency behind the moment they launch their game. Sentences such as;

 

- "Hey guys, I'd hoped to get a quick run in before work, does anyone mind space-barring through the cutscenes?"

or

- "Hey guys I'm new to this FP, is it alright if I watch the full scenes?"

 

.. should receive equal consideration from a group. Regardless of their 'status' as a new vs. veteran player.

 

I also don't get this sort of hierarchy type attitude that keeps popping up where players feel they're more entitled somehow because they've been playing longer. The game's been around for, 5'ish years I believe? There's plenty newer players who've only just reached an age where they're allowed to play this, who've only just heard of the game, who've only just started developing a taste for MMO's or really any number of reasons. The fact you've been here for "years" doesn't make you better, it makes you luckier in a way.

 

While I agree with everything you said, that completely leaves out the dedicated players that moved here from APAC servers when they closed. Many speak little to no english and as polite as you may try to be, just have no clue what you're saying.

[LordGermanicuss]

I think you missed the point.

 

New players won't cause the game to thrive, at least not in any way that matters to a 4 year vet. Yes it is true that someone who just started yesterday has a TON of content in front of them, that is not relevant to the old timers.

 

The one exception would be old timers who consider it part of the game to take new people under their wing and teach them the ropes. Those people exist, but aren't the majority.

 

You're DEAD WRONG, it is very important to EVERY vet with a brain. Every VET gamer knows that without new players, the game will die. It's that simple. If there are too many anti-socials left in the game that act as many here say and do and refuse to be social in an MMO, then the game WILL crash and burn and be gone. The actions of players contribute GREATLY to the continuity of the game, or they will help to burn it down, and I'm not surprised at all given the attitudes here, what direction this game is heading in. It's simple math. More jerks, less helpful and sociable/courteous vets, the numbers will continue to fall, and welcoming and helpful/sociable community, the more newer players will stay and the game will grow and thrive/survive. New players want to advance fast and catch up to not only the level, but the mounts and etc that vets have, that makes the sub and buy packs to get items and to get things to sell to get the stuff we have. You're really got to stop thinking so narrowly, it's honestly amazing but at the same time sad how narrow your train of thought is. It is very clear that you think of yourself and your enjoyment and very, VERY LITTLE else. That's sad and pathetic, grow up dude, and contribute to our game lasting longer.

[LordGermanicuss]

I was understating matters. Without new players, the game will actually die; because no matter what, veterans leave hobbies. Each individual may have a different span of interest, but eventually, everyone gets bored and drifts away - this happens in every hobby. The ones I've been involved in where they actively encourages newcomers are still around; the ones that catered primarily to the vets are gone; or at least no longer financially viable and survive because of a patron or patrons rich in time or money.

 

If the veteran community doesn't accept the new players, they go away, and then the game goes away.

 

Ah, now see, I wish I had read your post before I made mine, you were so much more eloquent in the way you said it, lol.

[LordGermanicuss]

While I understand those points, the reverse is also worth considering...

 

Using vets to carry you thought content you're not ready for and disregarding their enjoyment factor isn't nice in the least.

 

Over Christmas I gave FF 14 a try. That game isn't new, so when I was chatting asking for help, I never took offense when someone called me a noob or said "everyone knows that dude". Those comments are clearly coming from people who know the game back to front and I don't take them personally.

 

If I'm joining people in stuff and they say "we've all done this before", then I'll follow their lead. I'm new, they aren't, I respect that I'm stepping into their existing playground.

 

---

 

Regarding the "community" aspect, what is the upside to building that when there isn't anything to do with it? If we were getting new group content on a semi-regular basis, I'd be totally on board with you. When is the last FlashPoint that launched? The last operation? The last GSF map? Other than the new WZ, the one before that?

 

KotFE has made the situation worse. It wasn't perfect to start with, but at least when SoR was new, people were more understanding of "hey, this is new content". Now SoR is almost 1.5 years old, if you haven't run it yet, fair enough, but you should respect that lots of people have and don't want to slow down for the new person.

 

---

 

Overall, this has largely become a solo game, outside of the old FP/WZ/GSF/Ops. Grouping doesn't matter for anything else (world bosses I guess would be the exception).

 

This is probably why I haven't played in 2 weeks and haven't done anything past Chapter X. I just don't have a reason to care anymore.

 

You're really that thick/arrogant/stupid aren't you, you really don't get it.....you don't understand nor CARE to understand the term NEW PLAYER. You are a perfect example of why games fail. Vets such as you further ruin games. You do not respect new players or their gaming background or lack thereof. If someone has only played dancing games or only played FPS games, you really expect them to know how MMO's work in ANY MEANINGFUL WAY? Dude, get a grip. You've clearly been doing this for awhile, but you have been doing it for so long that you don't remember how it was and how little you understood when you first started and because of that you're being a jerk to new players and REALLY ruining this games prospects of lasting another 5 years. Don't DARE say it can't, if it doesn't/can't, it's ONLY because of people like you that can't/don't/won't respect others and especially new players. EXPECTING new players to respect vets is the stupidest thing I've read here so far, they have NO IDEA how MMO's or the game even works, as I said before your inability to understand others and respect others is your own personal failure and it causes the failure of MMO's because of a playerbase with people like you.

You also fail to realize that new people aren't going to know that this game has been around for x number of years, they think it's new/newer than it really is. You've REALLY got to stop thinking so narrowly, I can't, never mind, i won't even say the rest.

[JennyFlynn]

Just a quick thing regarding these APAC players you keep bringing up and their poor knowledge of the English language.. Isn't it equally 'selfish' and self involved of them to expect more leniency (ie: getting a free pass on not skipping) because they don't speak the language that well? I mean they're actively choosing to play a mostly English game and frequent American servers, whether through a lack of alternatives or otherwise. The least they could do for both themselves and others around them, is pick up on the basics of said language. They're foreign but they're not dumb. Just as we're evidently expected to be considerate of them, they in turn could be considerate of us and familiarize themselves with basic English.

[LordGermanicuss]

We might be talking past each other, rather than with each other.

 

Let me try to put this another way. Without new content from Bioware, why would the vets care if the game dies?

 

Bringing in new people is only useful if their attention, time, and money goes toward improving the game and releasing new stuff to do together. I can play single player games offline with no fee, so why does it matter if SWTOR lives or dies if all the new player money doesn't actually produce anything useful to the vets?

 

Because many of the vets enjoy WHAT THEY HAVE and hope for more. Some don't have such an outlook that they feel "entitled" to new content on their scheduled.

 

"so why does it matter if SWTOR lives or dies if all the new player money doesn't actually produce anything useful to the vets?"

Wow, that really says it all about you, it's what you want, or for all you care it can just shut down. Never mind that plenty of other people ENJOY greatly their interactions playing with others people in a star wars themed game or enjoying the things they helped their guild get or the things they've gotten for themselves. It's all about you, and if you're not happy with the state of the game then it could shut down for all you care. I'm not at all surprised to hear you sprout such SELFISH nonsense, not one bit, you've done all but say this very thing until now. But congrats on finally admitting it. You really make me sick.

[LordGermanicuss]

I was referring to hard mode versions... it used to be true in story mode, until bolster and level sync came along...

 

I only run hard modes now, and it grows old having people show up completely unprepared for them. Bolster works for some, doesn't work for others, but two situations really annoy me:

 

1. A level 65 shows up still in 190 greens or 188 legacy gear. - Ok, if you're level 50 or 60 and you are doing HM and it is something easy like Black Talon, no worries, bolster will be enough. If you're level 65 you have no excuse to not be in at least all 208, hopefully with some augments.

 

Oh you say, you didn't have time to go to the fleet, no worries, I'll pop out Revan, you can get some gear now since Revan sells the 208 basic comms stuff. What? You spent all your basic comms on companion gifts? Vote kick and ignore. What that says is that you're selfish and want to be carried at level 65. This has happened TOO many times.

 

2. A player shows up and says "first time in this flash point, what do we do?" My reply, "this is hard mode, if you have never seen this before, do the story mode first". The exception would be Black Talon/Essles, since those are a cake walk in HM. Maybe Mando Raiders if they are well geared.

 

Since 4.0 launched, I've had this one happen too many times to count. I've seen people in HM FP who have less than 1,000 achievement points, they are on their first toon and just dinged 50+ and clicked queue without bothering to look at what it was for. I remember one player, he was at about 330 achievement points, in hard mode FP.

 

While it is true that everyone has to start somewhere, that is just a headache waiting to happen.

 

Before you call me elitist, keep in mind that I pay for the game too, running people who have played for two weeks through Hard Mode FP is not my idea of fun. If there was a filter to prevent grouping with them, I'd use it.

 

 

 

You are of course correct, not all of any group will ever agree with any viewpoint. I'm simply stating mine.

 

The point has been brought up "if you don't welcome new people, the game will die", and I replied to that point, stating that if Bioware doesn't make some new group content, this vet won't care if it does.

 

Now see, this is a perfect example of how ANY two people can at least agree on one thing

 

"2. A player shows up and says "first time in this flash point, what do we do?" My reply, "this is hard mode, if you have never seen this before, do the story mode first". The exception would be Black Talon/Essles, since those are a cake walk in HM. Maybe Mando Raiders if they are well geared."

 

Yes, sick of tired of people buying 60 tokens and then directly queuing up in HM fp's. Normally I check gear, but on the easier ones I sometimes forget.

[IanArgent]

Now see, this is a perfect example of how ANY two people can at least agree on one thing

 

"2. A player shows up and says "first time in this flash point, what do we do?" My reply, "this is hard mode, if you have never seen this before, do the story mode first". The exception would be Black Talon/Essles, since those are a cake walk in HM. Maybe Mando Raiders if they are well geared."

 

Yes, sick of tired of people buying 60 tokens and then directly queuing up in HM fp's. Normally I check gear, but on the easier ones I sometimes forget.

 

Like I said earlier - "never done this flashpoint" != "not ready for Hard Mode." Someone could quite easily be GtG for HM-level challenge in gear and "read up" on the FP via Dulfy or wherever, and still want to see the cutscenes for the first time because SM isn't a challenge. OTOH, it is HM, they should go with the majority there.

[LordGermanicuss]

I can understand how especially the first thing can be annoying, but I'd like to point out that "I haven't done this fp before" might actually mean "I haven't done this hm fp before". Better to check the achievements before kicking or anything. ^^ I haven't done hm fps since Rise of the Hutt Cartel was a new and shiny thing, so I can't comment much on those.

 

And fair enough, it's your opinion. You just worded it as "why would the vets care if the game dies?", and my answer for that question is "because some of us still enjoy it".

 

and my answer for that question is "because some of us still enjoy it"

 

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!

[Newyankalt]

Yes, believe it or not, outside America people have much more empathy.

 

Stop generalizing, I doubt you even have that much experience dealing with Americans in person or Europeans for that matter...

 

The Internet is not a place to judge everyone just because of how some people act on a keyboard.

[LordGermanicuss]

The rules of etiquette change for Hard Mode to a certain extent; but I have some sympathy for folks who are at the skill level and gear level to run Hard-Mode FPs, but haven't run that particular FP before in SM. There's a lot of SM flashpoints without a solo mode, and getting into a specific SM FP is hit-or-miss via GF. So it's plausible that someone is "Ready" for HM content in general without having seen that specific content.

 

(yes, my view here is evolving a little).

 

Thank you, you're able to see that we have new players(which we desperately need) and are being empathetic.