Tykhelituss Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 2. Get rid of the bypass to Defense for the Tech/Force damage type, and simply let the Defense Chance determine straight forward hit/miss. There could be some amount of tweaks here to balance things out, such as maybe Tech/Force being able to be parried at a lower chance. You would need to change the way stuns/mezzes are applied if this was to be changed. CC should not miss, period. Evasion/Dodge based tanks, which if buffed correctly everyone would use, should be strong at mitigating or evading damage and not CC effects. If you feel tanks are ridiculous now, them being able to avoid CC defeats the purpose of playing DPS into a Tank/Healer combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Are tanks not supposed to feel "tanky" in midbies (41 - 64 bracket)? I was playing on my level 55 vanguard tank (shield specialist spec) last night, and whenever I was without the support of a healer, I was getting bursted down pretty fast. Tanks never felt tanky in PvP. If you want to feel tanky, throw on some PvE gear and tank some FPs. You will be indestructible. heh Edited March 21, 2016 by DarthOvertone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volthammer Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Exactly. This is why I see very few tankasins and they spend most of the time in the spawn area if they try to guard. Seriously 12 deaths and 110k protection, when as a dps I'm getting 80k protection by just staying alive and taunting on cd. Without a healer your better off not guarding at all and just using your taunts and cc to mitigate team damage. Can't stun or knockback 2 ravaging maras from that sniper when your in the graveyard. This is what I had been told, too. Unless you have heals, don't guard or you'll melt. My "spay shall teh" is Con-Op/Scoundrel or Shadow/Sin. Been trying to get the hang of "Skank Tank" lately and having a bit of trouble finding the sweet spot of surviving longer and also doing halfway decent damage. So...should I be running the tank AC with DPS mods, or is it good enough to run a DPS tank spec in tank stance with DPS mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 You would need to change the way stuns/mezzes are applied if this was to be changed. CC should not miss, period. Evasion/Dodge based tanks, which if buffed correctly everyone would use, should be strong at mitigating or evading damage and not CC effects. If you feel tanks are ridiculous now, them being able to avoid CC defeats the purpose of playing DPS into a Tank/Healer combination. I've got little over 2,000 defense which lands me around only 26% base Defense chance. Even I had to give up some of the defense after 4.0 because something like +120 point of defense after this point only gave me a defense chance increase in decimals. With some in-game buffs this chance usually stabilizes around 34~36%. Only in very short intervals, like 2~3 seconds at most, it pulls me up to 40% momentarily. So that being said, a constant average of 35% chance frankly isn't enough to be considered any kind of solid protection against CCs. If you are imagining it might be like Shad/Arses with Force Cloak or Smugg/Ops with Evasion that just goes on constantly, and neutering incoming CCs everytime, its nothing like it at all. The last MMOG I was in had multiple classes with 30~40% deflection chance in the game, and nobody there really expected it to be an adequate CC protection. 35% seems like a big chance, but considering the amount of CCs been thrown around in the game currently, I can bet my right nut that most people wouldn't even notice their CCs being deflected. It would be more like, "Oh man, that was frickin' parried/evaded..??!!! Friggin' darn luck" The chance two evade two CCs in a row would be like 10~12%, three in a row would be 4% or less. Now, against damage, things are different. The sheer frequency of attacks made in the game already greatly outweighs the amount of CCs -- which, are on 1 min CD at default. Against such numerous amount of attacks that are coming in constantly a 35% chance, as a steady means of defense, gains meaning. Also, take into consideration that I also feel the active defense skills on CDs need to be nerfed down correspondingly -- because one of the points to reinstate Defense rating as a valid measure of tanking, would be to give back the tanking role to real tanks, not DPS-geared pseudo-tanks. For example, powers like Saber Ward should be changed. The current Saber Ward is explained as giving a flat +50% chance increase, and also a flatline +25% increased resistance against Force/Tech. This is because the defense chance is basically meaningless since every Force/Tech attack will just wlatz through your Saber Ward even if it has 100% chance, and therefore ot compensates you by giving extra resistance. With my defense chance, I get a woppin' +84% chance to defend attacks with Saber Ward... which looks all fine and dandy, except its stupidly meaningless and isn't all different from other skank's +60% chance with Saber Ward, and the only meaningful part of this defense power is that its +25% resistance against force/tech -- the exact same as any skank gets. So instead of simply adding a +50% flat increase to parry/evade, it should be based on your current defense chance and boost it up from there -- like, "Doubles your base defense chance" -- in which case, I'd get a 70% chance, while a pseudo-tank in DPS gear with maybe 10% chance of defense, would get only 20%. This percentage will be a true-stat since nothing bypasses it, but anything that makes it through that 70% chance will hit square. The point is to increase the steady tanking/defensive ability of guardian/juggs to stabilize its ability to survive, making it less dependant on active CDs, while nerfing it down its survivability under extreme pressure -- frankly the situations it shouldn't be surviving against no matter how tanky it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundorff Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 @OP: I know exactly what you mean. The midbies bracket simply feels "weird" until you reach level 61-62. Whereas I am functional in lowbies from level 15 and very functional from level 26, this doesn't carry over to midbies. Even at level +55 I still feel somewhat broken compared to level +61 players. I guess the extra stats, passive and active abilities simply creates too big a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool-dude Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I find the only kind of tank that is useful in pvp is a skank tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I find the only kind of tank that is useful in pvp is a skank tank. You and 99% of the PVP population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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