Max_Killjoy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, a Force User who uses their powers while fueling them with passion/emotion but isn't a colossal dick. Truly this is the outer bounds of what is possible to imagine. Exactly. In SWTOR, dark side vs light side isn't about your emotional state when using your powers -- it's just 75% about whether you're a colossally juvenile emo dramaqueen on the dark side, and about 50% whether you have a giant stick up your backside on the light side. I swear 75% of the "dark side choices" in the game (and really, in a lot of the EU fiction) come down to some emotard trying desperately to prove how "free" he is from the "shackles of morality" by doing the most melodramatically juvenile "eeeee-vul" thing he can think of, even if it's the most moronic thing he could do at that moment and works entirely counter to his own interests... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 He said something about her making his bunk zap him because he was tring to make time with you... so shes pretty much the "psycho thinks shes his gf no matter what" trope as well Theran gets what he deserves from Holiday. He's literally the creepiest. skeeviest, most repulsive male companion I've come across in the game yet (one of my JCs is female, and I want to kick him in the nuts and take a shower in bleach after he hits on her... bleagh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) yes and sorry i don't presume to judge women and resort to ****-shaming. How about a vapid ditz programmed to fluff Tharan and his ego? Im a woman and how Holiday is programmed to act is skeevy on levels of a Ron Jeremy "film". Edited March 10, 2016 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Theran gets what he deserves from Holiday. He's literally the creepiest. skeeviest, most repulsive male companion I've come across in the game yet (one of my JCs is female, and I want to kick him in the nuts and take a shower in bleach after he hits on her... bleagh). He's one of the reasons I'm debating spending my L60 token on a female Consular, just so I can avoid him entirely on that combo. (The other one being I have a male Sage, and want a pub-side stealher, and DO NOT LIKE the mechanics of the Operative I'm playing. OTOH, then I miss out on a chance to do a dark-side consular - and I'm not sure how interesting that is) The end of his companion chain would be cute, if he hadn't been so durn skeezy leading up to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can someone remind me where it's established that Tharan is responsible for Holiday's personality and that she has no free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can someone remind me where it's established that Tharan is responsible for Holiday's personality and that she has no free will? He created her and personally designed her personality, he saids so when you're introduced to him. And if you get to the end of his companion story, he discovers a way he can give Holiday free will, but he is against it because she might stop stroking his ego. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRacer Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Can someone remind me where it's established that Tharan is responsible for Holiday's personality and that she has no free will? Tharan created her, so he is responsible for all aspects of her, from look, to personality. As an AI, she has about as much free will as any other AI/droid (and is clearly not on the level of SCORPIO or Mentor). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Tharan created her, so he is responsible for all aspects of her, from look, to personality. As an AI, she has about as much free will as any other AI/droid (and is clearly not on the level of SCORPIO or Mentor). It's not until the end of Theran's story that she's an actual A.I, until then she's a V.I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Tharan created her Incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 It's not until the end of Theran's story that she's an actual A.I, until then she's a V.I Is that Mass Effect terminology I see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Is that Mass Effect terminology I see? ...Maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 ...Maybe... I think it's absolutely appropriate to the distinction between Holiday when we first meet her, vs Holiday later. Virtual Intelligence, then Artificial Intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Just want to drop in here on the whole VI vs AI thing. AI refers to any intelligent system. Everything from Monte Carlo game tree search AI of decades past (last great achievement was DeepBlue, winning at grandmaster chess) to modern reinforced learning and neural networks (AlphaGo just won it's second game in a row against Lee Sedol earlier today). Even the most advanced neural network systems can't even come close to the complexity of Holiday, so demoting her to a made up VI term is a little weird, especially considering the term doesn't exist in star wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenesi Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Just want to drop in here on the whole VI vs AI thing. AI refers to any intelligent system. Everything from Monte Carlo game tree search AI of decades past (last great achievement was DeepBlue, winning at grandmaster chess) to modern reinforced learning and neural networks (AlphaGo just won it's second game in a row against Lee Sedol earlier today). Even the most advanced neural network systems can't even come close to the complexity of Holiday, so demoting her to a made up VI term is a little weird, especially considering the term doesn't exist in star wars. Sorry, I have to do this. How do you define "intelligence" of a system? How do you know the thing you created is sentient, and not just a "chinese room" following set of rules? Edited March 10, 2016 by Frenesi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamyn Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Theran gets what he deserves from Holiday. He's literally the creepiest. skeeviest, most repulsive male companion I've come across in the game yet (one of my JCs is female, and I want to kick him in the nuts and take a shower in bleach after he hits on her... bleagh). I think Doc is worse. He's standing there hitting on you while his ex is on the holo ranting about how he ditched her at their wedding. Kira finds Doc repulsive. Even Kaliyo says he's a bad lay. I don't know why the devs thought a man that every female character despises in-game would be attractive to a player. It just makes him look pathetic, like Anomen. He gets no respect from others, why should I like him? Pity? Edited March 10, 2016 by Tamyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) I think Doc is worse. He's standing there hitting on you while his ex is on the holo ranting about how he ditched her at their wedding. Kira finds Doc repulsive. Even Kaliyo says he's a bad lay. I don't know why the devs thought a man that every female character despises in-game would be attractive to a player. It just makes him look pathetic, like Anomen. He gets no respect from others, why should I like him? Pity? Almost all of the romance options I've seen in this game have been ... sub-par. Except maybe Theron Shan. He's got issues, but they're not major Edited March 10, 2016 by IanArgent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Almost all of the romance options I've seen in this game have been ... sub-par. Yeah, cuz Bastila and Carth were just the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, cuz Bastila and Carth were just the best. Haven't gotten around to playing KOTOR yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Theran gets what he deserves from Holiday. He's literally the creepiest. skeeviest, most repulsive male companion I've come across in the game yet (one of my JCs is female, and I want to kick him in the nuts and take a shower in bleach after he hits on her... bleagh). I agree, Cedrax is awful...I mean he hits on the lady JC...gets a FTB with her, and then turns around and drops her for the hologram. He still doesn't learn his lesson either, because if memory serves, isn't there a conversation where Nadia complains that he was hitting on her too? Definitely Holiday is a reflection of the sort of person Cedrax is, and it's pretty skeevy. While some might argue about Doc being as bad, I don't recall him hitting on Kira, and he hasn't gone as far to create an ego stroking program, that is about as repulsive to behold as its creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadPreacher Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Bioware hasn't written good romances since maybe Viconia or Jaheira, depending on what tickles your fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamyn Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Definitely Holiday is a reflection of the sort of person Cedrax is, and it's pretty skeevy. While some might argue about Doc being as bad, I don't recall him hitting on Kira Doc definitely does hit on her if you're a male JK (my JK had fun saying she's taken), and later Kira complains about him in a companion conversation too I think. I might be harsher on Tharan if he was the designated romance like Doc is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Cedrax did not 'program' Holiday, he didn't create her. Hello? Anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArkhaanPremiare Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Cedrax did not 'program' Holiday, he didn't create her. Hello? Anybody? Yeah he won her, but he still had to reprogram her to recognise and love him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah he won her, but he still had to reprogram her to recognise and love him though. Cedrax's affection for Holiday culminated in a great sacrifice. He had been invited to the Luminatus Club, a secret society of the galaxy's finest scientific minds. To enter the society, he built a Vandyk Generator, a theoretical device thought impossible to actually construct. Realizing he could make it work once, he faced a dilemma; use it to achieve everlasting scientific fame, or grant Holiday true sentience. In the end, he gave up scientific glory for her. When the Consular pointed out that sentience could change the nature of their relationship, Cedrax replied that he understood, but valued Holiday's life and development more. Not exactly what I'd consider scummy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Almost all of the romance options I've seen in this game have been ... sub-par. Except maybe Theron Shan. He's got issues, but they're not major As a Vette lover, I take offense to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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