Congrats!!!

[eriksarcasm]

Awwww, poor little slicer. All mad they can't take advantage of an exploit anymore.

 

In other words... "This doesn't affect me but I'm still glad it hurt you in some way"

 

Also, look up exploit. This never was one. An exploit is when someone uses a glitch or bug to trick the game code to produce unintended results, and profiting from that. This is not what happened here. Even if this was unintentional, no one tricked anything.... in other words, no one cheated, which is the veiled accusation you and others have been making.

 

You may argue that the bots are a cheat, and you'd be right. But what the bots "exploit" has nothing to do with the output of the slicing. The teleporting, stealth capping, etc, are where the exploits occur, and this "fix" does precisely squat^2 to counter that. There will always be bot farmers, there were before and there will be after this. Does anyone think the bot runners will see this and say "oh, guess I'll just take these automatons that generate pure profit with NO COST and NO EFFORT on my part away, because they now generate slightly less pure profit with NO COST and NO EFFORT on my part"? The bots needs to be addressed, and this is NOT the way to do it.

 

And by the way, if you take credits out of the slicing nodes, the bots will still farm them for mats to sell. And they'll also farm every other node for mats. Does it affect you now?

 

All this does is hurt honest players and farmers (and before you all get self righteous and say that farming is playing wrong, who the hell are you to tell anyone how to play?) Your opposition to slicing nodes generating high profits for slicers is basically "mehhhhh.... they're getting stuff for making an effort and I'm not..... make them stop because my feelings...." Enough of this. Play the game your way and stop whining about others playing their way.

[The_Miz]

Edited: Because what I said was inappropriate and shouldn't have been said I apologize for my venting my frustration in a wrong manner

 

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/13953783092_54352f67f8_o.jpg

[squirrelballz]

I expect more from you Squirrel, whether he attacks other posters or not doesn't mean you should do the same, and if you must, at least make it somewhat constructive and not a full on personal attack .

 

You are right it was petty of me to do that and I apologize to Dijini, however, no one deserves to be silenced and saying crap like shut your face that irked me but I should've handled that more intelligently no excuses.

Edited March 8, 2016 by squirrelballz

[Khevar]

To be fair they did nerf/buff companions in a weeks time span when people complained about it on the forums.

This is true, but I would argue that it's likely they had already intended to dial companion abilities up and down anyway. Edit: They had very little playtesting on it, so far as I know, and none of it on the PTS. It's not a stretch to imagine it as a part of their 4.0 rollout to tweak something like this.

 

My case against forumites such as you and me being able to influence developer decisions in the CSM debacle. A small handful of people complained. Many people figured it was a mistake. Most people didn't care.

 

Then the big nerf happened, followed by a practically universal uprising, which included notable posters that had rarely found any criticism with the game at all. Followed by 0.00000% adjustment on the part of BW.

 

When people complain and devs happen to do that thing? They were most likely already planning on doing it (or something like it) anyway.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Khevar

[peter_plankskull]

This is true, but I would argue that it's likely they had already intended to dial companion abilities up and down anyway.

 

My case against forumites such as you and me being able to influence developer decisions in the CSM debacle. A small handful of people complained. Many people figured it was a mistake. Most people didn't care.

 

Then the big nerf happened, followed by a practically universal uprising, which included notable posters that had rarely found any criticism with the game at all. Followed by 0.00000% adjustment on the part of BW.

 

When people complain and devs happen to do that thing? They were most likely already planning on doing it (or something like it) anyway.

 

Well a few of us have no power of course.... but as you stated, if there is a massive uproar and enough people voice there opinion, they will be heard. I do believe they do listen to the community at times, for instance, people wanted "in door housing" and we got strongholds... people wanted a way to expand currently existing guilds, and the cap is raised to 1000, people asked for QOL changes, and we received them. I just hope they listen to us once KOTFE season two ends...

[Mezarkan]

Congrats to the anti-slicers and Companion gift whiners of tor.

Check out the patch notes for 4.2.

 

Slicing Harvesting nodes no longer drop Prototype (blue) quality Lockboxes and now drop Premium (green) quality Lockboxes.

 

Alliance Supply Crates now really don’t drop Premium Quality Gifts, and instead drop Artifact Quality Rank 5 Gifts.

 

Next on the list of things to cry foul on is people are hitting for over 5K damage with one mighty swing of their non-arbiter lightsabers or their Black nebula pistols.

 

That's okay, because I'm going to hunt you down and start to ninja everything in front of you.

First, the European servers and then I'm going after the NA servers.

 

Put another shrimp on the barby.

 

 

hopefully the slicing nodes are returned to what they were before the 4.1 update or preferably less than that.

 

but in the meantime, i want to confess my crimes, here is part of it and then a full video explaining it

 

 

 

"Where do I begin, my Lords and Ladies? I'm a vile man, I confess it. My crimes and sins are beyond counting. I have lied and cheated, gambled and whored. I'm not particularly good at violence, (Catelyn looks on) but I'm good at convincing others to do violence for me. (Bronn looks on, aside a pillar, secluded from the crowd) You want specifics, I suppose. When I was seven, I saw a servant girl bathing in the river. I stole her robe. She was forced to return to the castle naked and in tears. (eyes closed) If I close my eyes, I can still see her t*ts bouncing

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc93gQRRKbA

 

"

Edited March 8, 2016 by Mezarkan

[xkcurtisx]

QQ more QQ more QQ.

 

Business as per usual.

[PorsaLindahl]

Bah! I call troll post on OP since he doesn't know what slicing materials are.

 

*Takes troll cookies and looks for another thread*

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Indeed congrats, nice job Bioware.

 

However next time a little communication on an issue like this ahead of time would have saved some forum angst ... I sometimes think they actually want this angst, maybe it drives some sort of metric for the next EA investor call ... "and forum posts are up over the previous 3 years, game is doing great".

[trueKieran]

Issue is the OP wants to QQ and Nerd Rage over something and isn't very bright.

Yep... sounds about right.

[ivanhedgehog]

I still say slicing nodes should drop slicing materials, the occasional schematics and mission discoveries. Drop the credits completely. Then there won't be any direct credit farming. And make droid mobs have harvestable slicing materials as well. They do have circuits after all.

 

As suggested here.

 

as long as they have a 30% drop rate of purple slicing mats, sure.

[ElvisLegShaker]

yeah.. well i said they would nerf em instead of taking care of the botters.. they punish the actual players.. way to go!

[DayneDrak]

It was obviously intentional, them taking out the blue drops completely means that thats how it was supposed to work, and theyre replacing it with ONLY greens, again proving it was an intentional change to slicing. As for "poor little slicer" not really i only sliced during the first 3 days of early access because there were 13 instances open of zakuul so you could easily get a solo map. Sounds like you're just one of the many to lazy to take advantage of a good change before it was dominated by bots. Condolences.

 

Yeah, can't really say it was intentional for sure. Might have been a mistake. The Alliance lock boxes are a good case in point - they intended to remove green gifts with 4.1. Instead they removed purples.

 

They also screwed up crafting mat requirements, stuff that should have been BoE was BoP, some profs didnt have any recipes at all, etc etc. It's obvious that 4.1 suffered from a lack of good Quality Assurance. Having the slicing nodes drop Blue lockboxes instead of Green could just as easily be another symptom of the non existant QA (and the change would indicate that's likely) as much as they decided to do it on purpose.

 

Anyone with half a brain that didn't have a personal interest in the slicing returns knew damn well it was too much and it was gonna get nerfed.

[DayneDrak]

I still say slicing nodes should drop slicing materials, the occasional schematics and mission discoveries. Drop the credits completely. Then there won't be any direct credit farming. And make droid mobs have harvestable slicing materials as well. They do have circuits after all.

 

As suggested here.

 

If that's the case, there should be Investigation nodes, Diplomacy nodes, Treasure Hunting nodes, etc.

 

The fact that Slicing has a gathering component at all, when the other blue and purple mat generating crew skills do not is part of the problem.

[DayneDrak]

Indeed congrats, nice job Bioware.

 

However next time a little communication on an issue like this ahead of time would have saved some forum angst ... I sometimes think they actually want this angst, maybe it drives some sort of metric for the next EA investor call ... "and forum posts are up over the previous 3 years, game is doing great".

 

Honestly, can't blame 'em for holding it until the last minute on this one. Normally I agree that their communication is atrocious, but creating a week long feeding frenzy to get in on the stuff before it goes away is probably not the best idea.

 

And I also suspect that they've been paying attention to how WoW devs get ripped when they talk to their players. Sometimes you really are better off keeping your mouth shut.

[XiamaraSimi]

, if you can't break even with the costs of slicing, then what's the point of doing it in the first place?

 

 

The mats gained by slicing. All those augments you like to stick in your gear are made from them.

[JabbaWabbA]

tbh bots are never going to stop unless they (bioware) start cracking down on the players buying credits from them.

 

credit farmers will always find another way as long as the rl money supply is flowing in

Edited March 8, 2016 by JabbaWabbA

[okimbored]

so maybe it's time to just remove the lockboxes completely, I have a 550 crafter of every skill but honestly there is almost no point in crafting anymore, lets just remove all crafting from swtor and be done with it, not much point to crafting in single player games anyway

[ivanhedgehog]

hopefully the slicing nodes are returned to what they were before the 4.1 update or preferably less than that.

 

but in the meantime, i want to confess my crimes, here is part of it and then a full video explaining it

 

 

 

"Where do I begin, my Lords and Ladies? I'm a vile man, I confess it. My crimes and sins are beyond counting. I have lied and cheated, gambled and whored. I'm not particularly good at violence, (Catelyn looks on) but I'm good at convincing others to do violence for me. (Bronn looks on, aside a pillar, secluded from the crowd) You want specifics, I suppose. When I was seven, I saw a servant girl bathing in the river. I stole her robe. She was forced to return to the castle naked and in tears. (eyes closed) If I close my eyes, I can still see her t*ts bouncing

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc93gQRRKbA

 

"

 

you certainly helped your friends at the gold seller websites, their prices should be returning to full profits soon.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Indeed congrats, nice job Bioware.

 

However next time a little communication on an issue like this ahead of time would have saved some forum angst ... I sometimes think they actually want this angst, maybe it drives some sort of metric for the next EA investor call ... "and forum posts are up over the previous 3 years, game is doing great".

 

[Please excuse the spelling errors]

 

Yeah, play all innocent now. Bioware caused no angst. The inquisition that you were a spearhead of is what caused it. You have demonstraited absolutely no regard to the effects this has on legitmate players. There is no way you do not know that the BOTs are all gonna still be there. You know damn well the extreme competition that slicers faced was it's own checks and balance and that BOTs literally don't have to obey the same 'laws of physics' in the game that players do because of the hacked third party software they employ that allows the to teleport, and walk through walls and appear and and out of thin air without agrooing the adds they are standing right next.

 

Why would you care? It doesn't effect you.

 

 

I haven't been calling you an ******** [which you are] and using the language I do to you because we have different points of view. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions. I have taken that course with you because at no time have you demonstraited anything other than contempt for legitimate slicers who were earning their credits just as legitimately as any one else. If you had really believed that slicing was this windfall of credits that eclipsed the earning potential of the other professions, you'd have been standing right next to me in the slicing areas. You have shown absolutely no regard for how this effects a ton of fellow players whom, in all fairness to you, you yourself have never accussed of exploiting [at least to my knowledge]. You have been at the vanguard of this all along [which you're entitled to], making all these claims about how harmful it is to the economy of the game [which is bs] and how it facilitates the presence of BOTs [which it does, I agree with you there] without being able to provide an irrefutiable evidence to support your claims about how it's effecting the make believe economy.

 

You lost all credibility when just a few days ago you had to ask what the credit content of the various colored boxes was. How could you possibly make the claim that slice boxes were giving too many credits when you by your own admission are unaware of those figures? When I saw that, that is when I lost all pretense In dealing with you in any respectful manner. You simply do not care about how it effects every single slicer in the game. And what's even worse, is you not only demonstraite no regard for the negative effects on slicers this is having, you take pleasure in it. You have demonstraited nothing but callousness and contempt for legitimate slicers.

 

I do not believe that everyone who supported the move to nerf slicing did so out of callousness or disregard for the effects it will have on legitmate slicers. I believe there are many who honestly believe it's an effective way of getting at BOTs [sadly they are wrong, and than is going to be all too clear very soon]. I cannot make that argument with you. But you are not alone in that regard. The contempt has been demonstriated by others as well with glaring clarity.

 

"Enjoy your holiday". Remember?

 

You're loving this, and that is why I say, go f_ck youself.

 

Well done.

Edited March 8, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[JennyFlynn]

I get the upset, I really do. For some people slicing specifically was a source of income which is now being reduced and sure, that blows. But to lash out and cuss the way some people are right now? Or to purposely mock those who'll be at a disadvantage over this change? That's going a bit far. And yes, I made a comment earlier regarding QQ'ing and stand by it though that pertains more to the fact that no matter what gets done or doesn't get done, someone is always gonna be left upset. Of course ideally BW would aim their efforts at the botters instead but that could involve a trickier if not more expensive solution, for them. This change coming with the patch is simpler and easier on their part. Just as simple and easy as it had become to farm credits through slicing. People clearly like simple and easy or there wouldn't be this much upset right now, right?

 

Now what I wonder, how long has it been since these 'blue boxes' gave so much more than slicing used to? Had it really been in place for just barely a month? And if so, what's so bad about going back to what it was? Has 1 month spoiled you that badly? Did you never for a moment think "Gee I'm making a lot of cash this way, I probably shouldn't get used to this"?

 

And no, I'm not laughing at anybody nor do I give a hoot about in-game professions and which yields more money and I'm by no means rich. If I currently own about 10-12mil split between 20 characters then that's a 'lot' for me.

[Khevar]

You're not making a living by it.

I gather from your posts that open-world gathering of slicing nodes has been a big part of your in-game income.

 

You realize that the current payouts of open-world slicing lockboxes is a pretty recent change, right?

 

What did you do before 4.0 to make credits?

 

Also:

If there was ever any doubt of that, there can't be anymore. I absolutely believe that is why this happened in it's entirety.

I'm genuinely curious what makes you believe that people complaining about slicing boxes caused this change? What could possibly bring you to believe that the devs came to the forums, read the threads on the subject and ignored ALL the people who posted in favor of keeping the lockboxes the way they were?

 

Surely you don't think a handful of people actually have the ability to sway developer decisions? Simply by posting threads in the forums?

 

If so, can you explain the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER threads which have been ignored over the past 4 years? Including those on blistering hot topics that had almost everyone in agreement? (e.g. CSM)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Khevar

[XiamaraSimi]

Went back in an editied my first post since it caused some confusion:

 

◆◆EDIT◆◆ Since it seems to have caused some confusion, the following statement is aimed entirely at the OPs Point B, where hes ranting at Bioware for fixing something they broke. (companion gifts in Alliance crates)

 

FFS As they say, people really will complain about anything...

Edited March 8, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I get the upset, I really do. For some people slicing specifically was a source of income which is now being reduced and sure, that blows. But to lash out and cuss the way some people are right now? Or to purposely mock those who'll be at a disadvantage over this change? That's going a bit far. And yes, I made a comment earlier regarding QQ'ing and stand by it though that pertains more to the fact that no matter what gets done or doesn't get done, someone is always gonna be left upset. Of course ideally BW would aim their efforts at the botters instead but that could involve a trickier if not more expensive solution, for them. This change coming with the patch is simpler and easier on their part. Just as simple and easy as it had become to farm credits through slicing. People clearly like simple and easy or there wouldn't be this much upset right now, right?

 

Now what I wonder, how long has it been since these 'blue boxes' gave so much more than slicing used to? Had it really been in place for just barely a month? And if so, what's so bad about going back to what it was? Has 1 month spoiled you that badly? Did you never for a moment think "Gee I'm making a lot of cash this way, I probably shouldn't get used to this"?

 

And no, I'm not laughing at anybody nor do I give a hoot about in-game professions and which yields more money and I'm by no means rich. If I currently own about 10-12mil split between 20 characters then that's a 'lot' for me.

 

The 'blue boxes' came in the same patch as the latest chapter of KOTEE last month. Actually exactly a month as tomorrow's patch is releasing the next chapter.

 

A very brief history on the credits slicing boxes have given at different times. -

 

 

Yavin boxes prior to 4.1 had already had their payouts nerfed [lessened amount of credits you get per color] Just before 4.1 the credit range was approximately [i may be off slightly but not terribly so] 500-1500 credits for white boxes, 1500-3000 for greens, and 3000-5500 for blues. These listed values were not always like that. But initially the payouts had been significantly higher. You could get 10-11k for ONE blue, Greens could go between 1.5k - 2.5k and whites wouldnt exceed 2k values in the hundreds range were by no means unheard of you could 425 credits for example.

 

So, this means, BW had made a decision that the initial values were not to their liking so they lowered them [to pre-4.1 levels, but not initial values], than 4.1 came and they increased the values again. Even still, as it is now, is less than it was initially in many instances [depending of the random value of credits you get per box]. Initially if you got three blue boxes, you just made 30k. These initial values are the reason I became a slicer in the first place. I can't speak to what the values are/were on other lower level planets, I never sliced anywhere but Yavin [Zakuul when it came out too].

 

This situation is not about BW having made a mistake, they had been down this road multiple times before, made changes, time past and than made other changes, we can however see, they went back and forth [higher, lower, higher]. There is nothing new here. It can't be said they did not know what increasing the value of credits in slicing boxes in this last patch would do because there was a time when the slicing boxes game a fair amount more than this last month. One blue box was 10k. If you sliced for a couple of hours and filled your inventory, you would have predominately whites, a spattering of greens and perhaps 4 -6 blues. [blues naturally were rare]. If you cashed in 5 blues, that was fifty k. - But let there be no confusion between the values of blues back than and the values of blues now [as of this last month], blues in the current state [ at least for a couple of more hours] do not award any where near that much. 2-4k]. You made much more back in the day than you do now.

 

I have always been a slicer, I feel like I can speak with competence on the subject [i am not alone in that regard], and the majority of the problem between the anti-slicers and slicers is the context. Slicing is time consuming. Slicing is exceedingly competititve, and there is no respect or curtiusy shown between slicers. If you are fighting adds while standing on the node, if someone sees that they will come right over and take it for themselves because they know you can't channel the box while fighting. All of these boxes are in areas where adds are plentiful and a great deal of them simply cannot be obtained without fighting. These things served as a checks and balance to slicing value potentials. The BOTs are there at all times and in alarmingly high numbers compared to the current population in a given instance. On the Shadowlands there are no less than 7 BOTs that frequent the slicing areas. They are not all always there at the same time, but you will never find less than 3 or 4 at any given time. This is in addition to the competition from other players. The amount of spawning slice boxes was far exceeded by the amount of slicers, meaning there was infinitely more demand than supply. There is no other profession in the game that is more time consuming and requiring of the players direct attention than slicing. What we got, we more than earned.

 

But not anymore.

 

I found the mood and moderation of your post very refreshing and it's tone perfectly balanced. Hope to see more from you.

Edited March 8, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I gather from your posts that open-world gathering of slicing nodes has been a big part of your in-game income.

 

You realize that the current payouts of open-world slicing lockboxes is a pretty recent change, right?

 

What did you do before 4.0 to make credits?

 

Also:

 

I'm genuinely curious what makes you believe that people complaining about slicing boxes caused this change? What could possibly bring you to believe that the devs came to the forums, read the threads on the subject and ignored ALL the people who posted in favor of keeping the lockboxes the way they were?

 

Surely you don't think a handful of people actually have the ability to sway developer decisions? Simply by posting threads in the forums?

 

If so, can you explain the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER threads which have been ignored over the past 4 years? Including those on blistering hot topics that had almost everyone in agreement? (e.g. CSM)

 

I have been a slicer all along, and you are quite right, I did not use the skill to make materials for crafting for two reasons, one, I hate crafting and two, couldn't make enough credits by that alone to any way support in like numbers other professions earning potentials. Slicing boxes offered a means of making credits without having to play Martha Stewart's Playhouse of basketweaving. I have no issue with crafters persay, people should be able to chose whatever form of revenue gain they find most palatable to their tastes. Hontesly, I enjoyed the opportunity to engage in comat while earning credits {I play a Marauder, I like to fight] and I a big fan of OW PVP. Om yavin there is plently of other people who enjoy it too so it only added to the suspence, [fighting one on one with another player is better test of ones skill, I liked the opportunity to induldge in that. It's not like im just just gonna ride around planets just hoping to get jumped but having no other reason to be there heh].

 

Normally I would agree with you, I don't tend to take the view that much of what goes on in the forums is of much conscequence to the devs, I'd be lieing if I said that and would be seen as self-serving. But when this issue started, it was very quickly a hot bed. Slicers in game have been talking about this amonst themselves as well and everyone was tence by it becase they too saw the writing on the wall. Would you ever think that one day they would shut down crafters selling things on the GTN? Of course not. None of us ever even entertained the thought that our form of earning would one day be assailed.

 

It was like the companion thing all over again. People calling for nerfs because they were too powerful, others calling to keep them powerful because it assited the casuals style of play. If you're not a slicer, you wouldn't obviously have noticed the tension slicers were feeling over the issue. While other professions dwarf the slicer population by comparision, that still leaves a lot of people who have been making there way for a long time from slicing boxes. It you lose a job you really liked, sure you can get a new job, but it doesn't mean you'll like it, that you won't miss aspects of your old job that you got fulfillment from.

 

The other view, how would you like it if your boss came into your office and said, listen, management wants to cut costs, you can keep you job, but your going to have to work twice as long for half the pay.

 

This is not the first time slicing has been nerfed. We've been through this already [ at least those who have been slicing boxes for a long time].

 

It would be wrong to expect people to have their way of doing things that have been completely legitmate altered drastically and negatively and to not be upset by it. This is not going to get rid of bots. This is not going to put creditspammers out of business. This is not going change the influx of credits obtained thru slicing by BOTs into the 'economy'. There is no economy. Economies are regulated, they have safe gaurds, they have standards of practice, there are laws that regulate them. A free market does not mean no rules. Economies can only exist and function properly when everyone involved is bound by the same general practices of commerse. None of these things exist in the game. There no gold reserves that 'back' the value of credits. The value of credits in the game exist as a statement of fact by decree. Theres no nasdaq, there is no conversion of monetary value between different forms of currency. The credit 'value' in this game is a constant. In real ecomomies you cannot simply arbitrarily charge any amount for goods and services. There are laws that govern such things. When was the last time you saw a store charging a hundred dollars for a pack of cigarettes? You don't ever see that because you do not have the legal right to do so. If you did do this, it would catch up to you. You would be breaking laws of commerce if you did.

 

I'm rambling now, my apologies.

 

Simply put, how would you like it if complete strangers were demanding that your salary was decreased?

This all started, supposedly, because of the negative effects of the presence of BOTS and creditspammers, and the argument was made that in order to get that underwraps, the slicers would have to take the hit for it.

As it turns out, it's the legitmate slicers that are the only target that is going to be effected by this.

You can disagree with that, and I won't try to convince anyone of that view if they don't share it. I don't need to. Everyone is going to see it for themselves in the coming weeks and months, and by than no one's gonna think nor care about the slicers who got the raw end of the stick cuz it doesn't effect them. But it very much effects us.

The creditspammers are going to be making more credits via their bots than they ever have before. Slicers wont be able to earn enough from it given all the competition and the bots and the reduced pay out given the amount of time that is required of slicing box collection. The bots will be getting them all now, the reduced payout will be more than made up for my the sheer volume of obtaining all the boxes with no competition from players.

 

Talk about laughing all the way to the bank.

Edited March 8, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx