If you could ban one ship type during a match, what would you pick?

[Greezt]

This is a very old misconception about bombers and gunships, and tends to be spouted by frustrated scout aces that need to justify their inability to be effective alone against a proper team composed of a variety of ship types. The reality is that the presence of bombers and gunships adds a whole new level pf gameplay to the match. If the game were composed entirely of scouts and strikes, and entirely of "dogfighting" there would be ONE effective scout build for high end matches, and ONE effective scout build for farming new players. The addition of bombers and gunships allows for far more different types of ship builds to be viable, as the same build that works well against a bomber isn't going to be as effective against a scout. Likewise, it changes the layout of the battle. If everyone is always dog fighting without having to worry about gunships than most people wouldn't learn to use terrain, cover, strafing, and when they did it would be entirely a stalling tactic.

 

Some very talented players took place in an 8v8 all scouts/strike match 2 weeks ago, many of which are in this forum. It was a Mesas TDM, and the game ended 28-34 I believe. The game was so slow paced, nobody could ever get kills on one another, and it consisted almost entirely of snapshots and chasing each other around. There wasn't much strategy at play, those with the BLC's and clusters had a huge advantage, and players were very spaced out across the map. For myself, this was a huge eye opener. The match was....boring. If every match was like that than all of the people who love this game for its depth and variety would have been long gone and this game wouldn't have made it past its first couple of months.

 

If you believe that bombers and gunships are easy to fly and that it takes a "real" pilot to fly a scout, then you should further examine how this game works and what makes it enjoyable for people after all of these years.

 

I'd like to add that many gunship pilots use terrain for stalling too, although admittedly I've never seen the best ones do it.

 

Apart from that , I agree. Scouts are good in small doses, but having to many of them makes matches boring and prolonged.

[SeCKSEgai]

This is a very old misconception about bombers and gunships, and tends to be spouted by frustrated scout aces that need to justify their inability to be effective alone against a proper team composed of a variety of ship types. The reality is that the presence of bombers and gunships adds a whole new level pf gameplay to the match. If the game were composed entirely of scouts and strikes, and entirely of "dogfighting" there would be ONE effective scout build for high end matches, and ONE effective scout build for farming new players. The addition of bombers and gunships allows for far more different types of ship builds to be viable, as the same build that works well against a bomber isn't going to be as effective against a scout. Likewise, it changes the layout of the battle. If everyone is always dog fighting without having to worry about gunships than most people wouldn't learn to use terrain, cover, strafing, and when they did it would be entirely a stalling tactic.

 

Some very talented players took place in an 8v8 all scouts/strike match 2 weeks ago, many of which are in this forum. It was a Mesas TDM, and the game ended 28-34 I believe. The game was so slow paced, nobody could ever get kills on one another, and it consisted almost entirely of snapshots and chasing each other around. There wasn't much strategy at play, those with the BLC's and clusters had a huge advantage, and players were very spaced out across the map. For myself, this was a huge eye opener. The match was....boring. If every match was like that than all of the people who love this game for its depth and variety would have been long gone and this game wouldn't have made it past its first couple of months.

 

If you believe that bombers and gunships are easy to fly and that it takes a "real" pilot to fly a scout, then you should further examine how this game works and what makes it enjoyable for people after all of these years.

 

As a "frustrated scout ace"...

 

I run a bar of multiple ship types and have kill counts even on my tensor spearpoints/bloodmarks

 

A combination of gunships and bombers is just as slow as a "dogfighting" match when the opponents are actually at equal skill levels.

 

You don't add any special dynamics when you're playing peek-a-boo with a gunship wall.

 

Newer pilots can react to getting shot out when they can actually see what's shooting at them.

 

Newer pilots lack the upgrades and experience to deal with multiple bombers.

 

Teams are rarely even, and when a team has an advantage, it's generally by a wide margin.

 

Gunship chess and bomber spam are hardly "strategy"

[Danalon]

In my opinion the problem with Bombers and Gunships isn't that they're too strong, but they are extremely effective against new players, without having to put much effort in and even when used by mediocre pilots. While a Scout is equally dangerous as the other two when flown by an ace, it's effectivenes plummets when flown by an average pilot.

 

In a game with equal and high average skill on both sides, the three meta classes work just fine, but everyone here knows that most games aren't that way. If one team consists of mostly new players the easiest way to farm them are Gunships for DM and Bombers for DOM. A Bomber in DOM doesn't have to do anything but getting to a satellite, drop everything and sit still for the rest of the game; a Gunship in DM never gets attacked because new ships usually lack evasion and are easily killed by railgun spam - and sadly, that's what a lot of people do.

A well piloted Scout is as deadly as the other two, but the Scout lacks AE and it has to watch out for it's hitpoints because it's effective range is small enough that even new pilots have a chance to target it.

[SeCKSEgai]

In my opinion the problem with Bombers and Gunships isn't that they're too strong, but they are extremely effective against new players, without having to put much effort in and even when used by mediocre pilots. While a Scout is equally dangerous as the other two when flown by an ace, it's effectivenes plummets when flown by an average pilot.

 

In a game with equal and high average skill on both sides, the three meta classes work just fine, but everyone here knows that most games aren't that way. If one team consists of mostly new players the easiest way to farm them are Gunships for DM and Bombers for DOM. A Bomber in DOM doesn't have to do anything but getting to a satellite, drop everything and sit still for the rest of the game; a Gunship in DM never gets attacked because new ships usually lack evasion and are easily killed by railgun spam - and sadly, that's what a lot of people do.

A well piloted Scout is as deadly as the other two, but the Scout lacks AE and it has to watch out for it's hitpoints because it's effective range is small enough that even new pilots have a chance to target it.

 

Ding Ding Ding Winner!

[RickDagles]

I don't agree with that at all. A BLC/pod/retro scout is absolute murder as a carry ship in domination. It's easily way better than a bomber for carrying a game. The second best carry ship here is probably the T1 gunship, but you'll have to spend a lot of time on the node killing stuff with BLC if your team is bad enough. IMO the only time it's worth it for me to play beacon bomber is if I have at least 3 competent teammates that will actually use the beacon. Sure, I could hold one satellite all game, but it's way harder to keep two satellites than the aforementioned choices.

 

A BLC/cluster/barrel roll scout is probably the best carry ship in TDM in these scenarios. If you are truly an ace, you'll be able to grab every single DO with this ship whereas you might otherwise miss a few if flying a gunship. Damage overcharge BLC murderers everything, and clusters are extremely good at killing any pilot that knows how to stay out of BLC range.

Edited February 29, 2016 by RickDagles

[Danalon]

I don't agree with that at all. A BLC/pod/retro scout is absolute murder as a carry ship in domination. It's easily way better than a bomber for carrying a game. The second best carry ship here is probably the T1 gunship, but you'll have to spend a lot of time on the node killing stuff with BLC if your team is bad enough. IMO the only time it's worth it for me to play beacon bomber is if I have at least 3 competent teammates that will actually use the beacon. Sure, I could hold one satellite all game, but it's way harder to keep two satellites than the aforementioned choices.

 

A BLC/cluster/barrel roll scout is probably the best carry ship in TDM in these scenarios. If you are truly an ace, you'll be able to grab every single DO with this ship whereas you might otherwise miss a few if flying a gunship. Damage overcharge BLC murderers everything, and clusters are extremely good at killing any pilot that knows how to stay out of BLC range.

I don't see much difference.

While a Scout is equally dangerous as the other two when flown by an ace, it's effectivenes plummets when flown by an average pilot.

... while Gunships and especially Bombers require almost no skill or effort when fielded en masse against new pilots.

 

If mediocre pilots were able to farm beginners as well in Scouts as they do in Gunships/Bombers, there wouldn't be so many games where Gunships or Bombers or both are spammed against beginners.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Danalon

[LasagnaSurfer]

T2 Scout definitely, hands down.