Varghjerta Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Look im done with this, im just repeating myself over and over because people cannot be arsed to read back in the thread. The best way I could demonstrate how I look at this issue to you guys is this, in this game because of there helpfulness to the main character I see my companion as a piece of gear right? so If that piece of gear getting an upgrade helps me on the whole then I see that as a perfectly viable need. I think to many people are trying to apply loot rules followed on other games to this game and with the changes bought about by companions being such an essential part of leveling that just doesn't work. Actually the same could be said about selling the items for credits or using it for proffesion It is helpful for the character but does that automaticly mean you should do it . And there you say Yes and the rest No It is basicly the same thing you are advocating if you can't see that well sadly i would suggest that you are very clear on youre stand before joining pugs Edited December 28, 2011 by Varghjerta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatcrazypenguin Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think what most people are trying to tell you is that your opinion is, well, simply wrong. If you pull this in a group 95% of people will kick you immediately. If you still think what you're trying to do is right, well I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but don't be surprised when you receive a group kick and angry tells from disgruntled players. other players being stuck in the systems they used on other mmos because they cant get it into there heads that not all games are the same is quite frankly not my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think to many people are trying to apply loot rules followed on other games to this game and with the changes bought about by companions being such an essential part of leveling that just doesn't work. Ask your group if you can have a piece of gear, each and every time, and make sure nobody needs it. I would gladly give you gear, if you asked, and nobody needed it for their actual character. Taking gear for a *companion* off the back of an actual player is wrong, and I would never let it slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenofell Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 other players being stuck in the systems they used on other mmos because they cant get it into there heads that not all games are the same is quite frankly not my problem. And one crazy player who has a very strange opinion on what loot rules should be considered the norm is quite franky not the community's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PArdr Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Thats a matter of opinion mate an upgrade is an upgrade weather its via my player or my companion, if it helps me then its a viable need simple as. Your stance that rolling on gear for your companion is as important as somebody rolling for themselves is also an opinion buddy. Don't try to discredit someone else's by labeling it as opinion..thats entirely hippocritical. Your views on common courtesy is so skewed its ridiculous. I cannot express how glad I am that I will never have to play with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) other players being stuck in the systems they used on other mmos because they cant get it into there heads that not all games are the same is quite frankly not my problem. Kinda like how you being too stupid to realize that you're dead wrong isn't our problem. 100.00% wrong. You being wrong is a fact comparable to 2+2=4. Gravity is more controversial than your being wrong. Edited December 28, 2011 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carinao Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 yes because the companion character totally had a choice in the matter with a full group haha, trust me some of the players ive played with id RATHER have had my companion along lol you cant put a personality on an npc for the purposes of loot denying haha well, if you were man enough, you'd tell the group that your companion will take a group spot and pull its weight as a player does and you will be rolling for it. But I guess you wouldn't have as much grouping opportunity, would you? Instead telling the group before hand to have you companion as a group member, you hide your true agenda and have a full PC group and rolls for it. It IS "ninja looting" for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRahja Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 As long as you are honest enough to tell me you are going to roll need on everything your greedy little eyes see, thats fine, I can boot you. I think the only time I dont like when people start spamming need because one of their 5 companions can use something (which is pretty much every item in the game) is when they just up and start doing it with no warning. As long as you figure out a system for looting before the group heads into the instance, this debate is a complete waste of time, space, and mental stamina. Also, we wonder why nobody wants to tank/heal, then we steal all their gear and pass it to Khem Val and Mako....durrrrrrr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatcrazypenguin Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 well, if you were man enough, you'd tell the group that your companion will take a group spot and pull its weight as a player does and you will be rolling for it. But I guess you wouldn't have as much grouping opportunity, would you? Instead telling the group before hand to have you companion as a group member, you hide your true agenda and have a full PC group and rolls for it. It IS "ninja looting" for sure. you see it as some kind of evil agenda, I see it as my perfect right under the need or greed rules, look let me give it to you nice and simple like. You NEED if an item is an upgrade for you and helps your character You GREED if an item isnt an upgrade, you cant use it etc etc In this game companions having better armor/weapons helps your character and should come under the same rules for needing as anything else getting an upgrade, they should in fact be considered another peice of upgradeable gear. that is all, like it or lump it im done talking to brick walls. oh and I know im not the only one because ive seen it happen many times already. The problem is with the forum posters trying to apply loot rules from games that didnt even have such a companion system to a game that does, like I stated before....that is not my problem. Good day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 loot discussions happen in groups. groups are usually 4 man. in 4 mans your companion is not even there, not helping at all. i will not tolerate a need roll for a companion that is not even there OVER a real player who needs it too. same as i won't tolerate a need roll for an offspecc in wow OVER a real need from a player for mainspecc. it's just and simple retarded to reward something that didn't even help the group over someone that actually DID really help. now, that being said, if no one else needs it, i don't mind a need roll on the item for a companion. imo, there should be a new loot button. need, greed, dissasemble and the new one: companion need but you can't even compare tooltips to companions that are not there, so... i personally would have a hard time knowing if i need something for a companion or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenofell Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) you see it as some kind of evil agenda, I see it as my perfect right under the need or greed rules, look let me give it to you nice and simple like Great thanks for repeating yourself for the nth time, please allow me to repeat every poster in this thread: you're wrong, your opinion is wrong, you're a greedy person, enjoy getting kicked for ninja looting. Also, "not our problem." We should totally keep doing this over and over until you finally realise that people understand what you're saying and simply think your opinion is silly. Edited December 28, 2011 by Xenofell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Look im done with this, im just repeating myself over and over because people cannot be arsed to read back in the thread. The best way I could demonstrate how I look at this issue to you guys is this, in this game because of there helpfulness to the main character I see my companion as a piece of gear right? so If that piece of gear getting an upgrade helps me on the whole then I see that as a perfectly viable need. I think to many people are trying to apply loot rules followed on other games to this game and with the changes bought about by companions being such an essential part of leveling that just doesn't work. No you dont understand what a ninja is, thats your problem. As said in my post, a ninja is not a person who does just need a item and then equips it, is giving it to the companion or even sells it to a vendor. Thats not the point. The point is, that the ninja exploids the system in such a way that he can benefit from it. Its common since 10 years that the role which you have in a group, presents your need. A healer get´s healing items, a tank protection stuff and a dps the damage items. If you dont want to follow that rule, something which is your right then you can do so. But then you must say so if you enter the group, because in the group usually everyone does follow the basic rule´s. If you dont say so, and then need an item which doesnt represent your role, then you are a ninja because you do exploid the common rules in MMO´s, as you know the others wont roll (except another ninja). It is like a game in RL, you play with your friends. You win the jackpot that consist´s of a car, cat, lamp and sausages. 1 of your friends is a hobby racer and if he didnt drive you verry fast to the show you wouldnt have won as you would have missed it. He now expect´s to get the car, while you the sausage seller made food so you could eat something during the drive - you would expect the sausages for your company, the other friend is a cat fan and answered the special cat question and wants the cat because its a very rare one ... At the payout what will be expected? That you get the car, just because you got a driver liscence? That you also get the cat, because your daughter wants one? That you also get the sausages, because you are the sausage vendor? No, you would get the sausages, the car guy his car and the cat guy the cat. It´s simple and it doesnt need to be mentioned before going to the show, as it is a common rule more / less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 oh and I know im not the only one because ive seen it happen many times already. The problem is with the forum posters trying to apply loot rules from games that didnt even have such a companion system to a game that does, like I stated before....that is not my problem. Good day I've seen it happen many times too, and I've always made it a "them or me" moment, on the spot. I absolutely will not tolerate this, and it's not your *right* in any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Anyone who gets in the group rolls need whether they NEED it or not. It ended all the drama. Don't really need it? Sell it. All fair and easy. Just like the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlocc Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 haha i love self important people, how many tanks do you know then mate? IF im even on your server, you speak like your some kind of royalty....keep on walking haha You're right, we'll probably never see each other on the same server. Thank god. I will keep on walking. So will every other person you group with and try this stuff on. You'll still find yourself with no groups in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) Anyone who gets in the group rolls need whether they NEED it or not. It ended all the drama. Don't really need it? Sell it. All fair and easy. Just like the old days. I have the same reaction to this. I am absolutely intolerant towards all improper needing. I'm completely unreasonable and fascist about it and offer no apologies. Oh, wait, wink. Right. Well, my statement still stands even if you were being sarcastic. Edited December 28, 2011 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I will keep on walking. So will every other person you group with and try this stuff on. You'll still find yourself with no groups in no time. I'm absolutely willing to stop everything and make a scene every time someone pulls the "needed for my companion" card. I've already done so several times before finding this thread. Even if I can't make the wider population follow proper etiquette they won't be getting by with anything around me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uben Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I have the same reaction to this. I am absolutely intolerant towards all improper needing. I'm completely unreasonable and fascist about it and offer no apologies. Oh, wait, wink. Right. Well, my statement still stands even if you were being sarcastic. Nah, I meant it. Cuts through the tape and leaves it as fair as can be to the dice roll. The worst is the guy that takes the orange JUST for the guts. Dosen't even LIKE the shell. He just takes it because it is better than he is wearing. Complete rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lickwids Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 that's my point though, companions should not be considered AFTER players, an upgrade that helps a player is just that, be it on him/her or there companion, im saying companion gear should be considered just as highly as player gear when it comes to these need/greed rolls. it can help out just as much after all so why not? With that logic lets all roll need cause it will benefit our characters by giving us credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 With that logic lets all roll need cause it will benefit our characters by giving us credits. The AOL-trash type players have been trying to water down the definition of 'Need' since early WoW and I've always had the same(admittedly extreme) reaction to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbiEtObi Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 OP wont have any friends in a few levels. Keeping that position will make you a solo player. I dont see the point also. My Companions get gear from random drops, quests and badges. They do just fine as tank or dps. Why should i even think about "needing" everything in group content just so my companion has +10 endurance or else? Its selfish greedy and mostly a "Bring the player - not the Class/Gear" Thing. The OP should consider getting some skill to realise that his way is just not needed at all. You get loot all the way. No "Need" to piss off other players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEKHAN Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I roll 'Pass' on everything I cant use (Either myself or my companions) but if there is an item I can use that's better than what I'm currently using I will roll need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I generally play with guildies.. So this is not an issue.. We typically are rolling for companions we aren't even currently using.. Or alts that we aren't even playing at the moment.. Again this is with guildies.. It is these types of issues that I choose to play with guildies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golarz Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 However gearing them well does bring benefit to the player character I see needing as something only to be done if it benefits your character.....sorry but in this game that does include companions, if khem val in my case (as a sith inquisitor/sorcerer using him as a tank) is wearing better armor or using a better weapon for example he`ll stay alive longer/do more damage both of which help me and should be considered an upgrade that benefits my character in the same way as a piece of gear for the main character would. Then why don't you go to a flashpoint with your Khem ? Let he tank insted of Juggernout who REALY needed that heavy armor you just ninjaed. And how do you remember all the stats of all the gear all your companions wear ? Players before pets. You want loot for pet you push greed or ask if you can need it for pet. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craftura Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 is not wow and you should not try and apply the same loot rules, Yes, you can apply the same unwritten rules which are based on actual common sense. We do not need for companion ahead of a player wasting his time doing a group with you for the single reason that the companion is not part of the group or effort thereof, the players within the heroic group ARE!. And... as such, the players actually playing the instance, flashpoint, operation should be the ones who get to need if they do need the item (before a secondary character, alt or so for the single-player). However, if the dropped item is bind-on-pickup, you can't need for the companion or an alt either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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