With the credits inflation in the last years isn't it time to raise credit cap?

[thebobmaster]

As someone who subs when they can, but can't always afford to (just finished my second week of my first full part-time job), I'd be fine with the credit cap being raised.

 

Should it be completely eliminated? Hell no. That wouldn't be fair, and I agree that having no cap would result in a lot of people dropping subs because they aren't being given motivation to keep subbing. But there is a balance between rewarding subs and punishing those who can't currently sub.

 

In my opinion, raising the cap to 700K for preferred and 350K for straight F2P would be a good idea. That way, there is enough of a gap to make subbing to remove the cap an attractive option, but not making the preferred players feel like they can't afford anything they could actually use. You may say "Well, preferred don't need to buy anything more expensive than 350K." I'd be the first to agree with you there. But then, subs don't "need" to buy anything pricier than that, either. They just would like to. And when I find myself at the credit cap by the end of Chapter 2, and nothing I can afford on the GTN at that price that would affect anything, there is a problem. Maybe not for the subs, but then, they would probably be selling more if the preferred players had more credits to spend.

[Ratajack]

As someone who subs when they can, but can't always afford to (just finished my second week of my first full part-time job), I'd be fine with the credit cap being raised.

 

Should it be completely eliminated? Hell no. That wouldn't be fair, and I agree that having no cap would result in a lot of people dropping subs because they aren't being given motivation to keep subbing. But there is a balance between rewarding subs and punishing those who can't currently sub.

 

In my opinion, raising the cap to 700K for preferred and 350K for straight F2P would be a good idea. That way, there is enough of a gap to make subbing to remove the cap an attractive option, but not making the preferred players feel like they can't afford anything they could actually use. You may say "Well, preferred don't need to buy anything more expensive than 350K." I'd be the first to agree with you there. But then, subs don't "need" to buy anything pricier than that, either. They just would like to. And when I find myself at the credit cap by the end of Chapter 2, and nothing I can afford on the GTN at that price that would affect anything, there is a problem. Maybe not for the subs, but then, they would probably be selling more if the preferred players had more credits to spend.

 

I'm sorry, but how does being able to play the game for FREE equate to being "punished"?

 

Not being rewarded with the benefits subscribers get if you play for FREE is not being punished.

 

If you want the benefits that subscribers get, including not having a credit cap, then subscribe.

 

If you are going to play for FREE, then accept that you are not entitled to benefits that subscribers get.

 

You can purchase an escrow while you are subscribed then use it when you drop to preferred to have a higher credit cap, temporary though it may be.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Ratajack

[thebobmaster]

I'm sorry, but how does being able to play the game for FREE equate to being "punished"?

 

Not being rewarded with the benefits subscribers get if you play for FREE is not being punished.

 

If you want the benefits that subscribers get, including not having a credit cap, then subscribe.

 

If you are going to play for FREE, then accept that you are not entitled to benefits that subscribers get.

 

You can purchase an escrow while you are subscribed then use it when you drop to preferred to have a higher credit cap, temporary though it may be.

 

If you read carefully, you might have noticed that I wasn't asking for the credit cap to be removed. Hell, I wasn't even asking about it being raised very much. But the fact is, 350K cap now is a hell of a lot more restricting than it was when they put it in place about 2 years ago (it was raised at that time, actually).

 

I agree, there should be restrictions in place to make subbing worthwhile. I don't want them to remove the credit cap. I just want them to make the credit cap about as restricting as it was when the credit cap was put in place. As inflation goes up, they should raise the credit cap periodically to reflect that.

 

And you are right, I can buy escrows. When they are available, and at a fair price. But there's been plenty of times where I've checked the GTN, and the prices are ridiculous. For example, I've seen people charging millions of credits for a 600K escrow, or 600K for a 50 K escrow. As for buying them on the CM, that's a good idea, assuming there is nothing else I'd like to buy, like an account-wide unlock to reduce other restrictions.

 

Once again, I'm fine with the credit cap existing. I fully agree that subs should have a better experience than preferred. But I'm also saying that you shouldn't just ignore how much more useless 350K is now compared to how it was 2 years ago.

[Manathayria]

Just curious... honest question here... But if you're a sub, you're not losing anything, and if you're not a sub, then you're not "walking with my subscription", now are you?

I am currently subscribed with both of my accounts. I wouldn't be able to post here if I wasn't.

 

If my friends who are currently pref - or go pref off and on could not login anymore because all of their characters are 60-65 - I would drop sub and go over to DDO with them. No question about it, I stay in game with them because we enjoy the story here, and can stay together even if any of us allow our subscriptions to drop.

 

We are currently all F2P on DDO, and don't log in there because SWTOR is overall a better experience. We have more invested here, but if we were suddenly restricted from our top levels without subscription... I think we would end up falling out and returning to DDO and would not be as likely to come back.

From what BW has reported in the past, the vast majority of CM sales are to subs. Something like 80%, if memory serves.

 

I'm not convinced that F2P adds as much to the game as you'd think, but maybe it does. Neither of us has access to the figures to really know.

Experience states that it is probably a good 80-90% that are paying into CM are subscribers just based on what I saw even in DDO - that does not however negate that there are special snowflakes like my guild leader from DDO who will sink large amounts of money into a game but refuse to subscribe.

 

I would have been interested in seeing what would happen if the CM had been added, but F2P had been limited to lvl 25 from the start. Go ahead and put the cash shop in for those who can and want to spend more, give F2P up to lvl 25, sub after that.

 

My gut tells me that the numbers in terms of total revenue wouldn't actually be much different than today. Might even be more. I know a number of former subs who bought all the unlocks from the GTN and unsubbed, and just play for free.

I think if they capped out at 25 - and lost access to all characters over the 'trial' level the numbers would be much different than they are now. I suspect many of the current restrictions are a sign of just how much EA/BW dragged it's feet going into F2P. I also suspect those that bought the unlocks and promptly dropped sub would not be in this game - they would be elsewhere and possibly would have taken people like me with them.

 

I am a founder, I subbed and stayed for a while after release, but moved back to DDO because of friends that dropped sub and left because they felt the game was not worth paying for anymore at that time. The glitches etc were just too much for them to stick with SWTOR. I left because they left. I returned when it went F2P, dragged them with, and subscribed again (and subscribed on a second account).

 

Had they been able to log in and play at all at that time, I would have remained content to pay for SWTOR. However, they couldn't, so I didn't.

 

No, 'free' is not a good number for a business, but if it is a model that lets their target audience (those who will eventually get tired of free with limitations and will pay to play without the limitations) it is a good model to allow 'free' play with restrictions.

 

I will of course point out that some games like GW2 or TSW do very well buy buy to play models. Sub models are simply the traditional format for western MMOs. It's interesting to realise the 'free to play' models like DDO or any of the PWE style games in asia are able to dwarf the earnings of even such games as WoW with the subscription based models. That is not however what this is, nor do I think it should turn into one of them.

 

As I have said previously. I would like to see the cap raised a little. Not removed, and not slacked so much that subscribing would not remain the best option.

 

I would like a slight raise in the pref cap specifically, pref cap for prior subscribers, much like they gave prior subs 2 more character slots but did not give pref who have never subscribed any more characters. 700k to me seems reasonable.

 

Removing the cap is not even on the list of things I would consider intelligent. I'd probably stare at it going 'they went full retard... I hope they found some better subscriber rewards to give everyone than that ugly jetpack.'

 

Should it be completely eliminated? Hell no. That wouldn't be fair, and I agree that having no cap would result in a lot of people dropping subs because they aren't being given motivation to keep subbing. But there is a balance between rewarding subs and punishing those who can't currently sub.

I wouldn't consider it punishment to leave the cap as is either. Raising it would be nice, it'd make it so more people can buy more off the GTN since there are more credits in circulation and prices have gone up. Keeping it as is however is not 'punishment', again, raising the cap is just a 'nice to have' thing.

 

Also, I would leave F2P cap at 200k. They have not contributed to the game, they have not paid anything in and I see no reason to reward that or ease their restrictions. They are more than capable of buying what limited things they are likely to be able to use from the GTN and from vendors.

 

I'm actually partial to what someone else said - if any raise in the credit cap were done, make it only for those that have been subscribers for at least a year, and even then, only make it to something like 700k.

 

SNIP -

when I find myself at the credit cap by the end of Chapter 2, and nothing I can afford on the GTN at that price that would affect anything, there is a problem. Maybe not for the subs, but then, they would probably be selling more if the preferred players had more credits to spend.

 

This is the only reason I have an interest in raising the cap. Inflation isn't likely to be changed by a cap increase, but it will mean I can sell more to pref players who are under the current credit cap.

 

To answer some of the questions raised with unlocks being bought with RAF CC and earning CC from the RAF program while subscription is down...

 

When you drop subscription, you stop earning all CC from the refer a friend program. You will still earn the 100cc a month from the security key authenticators and from achievements, but the refer a friend payments stop.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Manathayria

[cool-dude]

Just get a sub. You free-to-play people act like $15 is the end of the world. Support the game.

[Ratajack]

If you read carefully, you might have noticed that I wasn't asking for the credit cap to be removed. Hell, I wasn't even asking about it being raised very much. But the fact is, 350K cap now is a hell of a lot more restricting than it was when they put it in place about 2 years ago (it was raised at that time, actually).

 

I agree, there should be restrictions in place to make subbing worthwhile. I don't want them to remove the credit cap. I just want them to make the credit cap about as restricting as it was when the credit cap was put in place. As inflation goes up, they should raise the credit cap periodically to reflect that.

 

And you are right, I can buy escrows. When they are available, and at a fair price. But there's been plenty of times where I've checked the GTN, and the prices are ridiculous. For example, I've seen people charging millions of credits for a 600K escrow, or 600K for a 50 K escrow. As for buying them on the CM, that's a good idea, assuming there is nothing else I'd like to buy, like an account-wide unlock to reduce other restrictions.

 

Once again, I'm fine with the credit cap existing. I fully agree that subs should have a better experience than preferred. But I'm also saying that you shouldn't just ignore how much more useless 350K is now compared to how it was 2 years ago.

 

I may be wrong, but I do not believe the credit cap has ever been raised.

 

Initially, when the game first offered the F2p option, there were only 2 options--subscription and free to play. Free to play had a 200K credit cap, which has never been raised. IMO, it should remain at that cap.

 

BW then chose to add a third option with fewer restrictions than free to play--the "preferred status" option. This was NOT one of the original options. This option had a 350K credit cap. This has never been raised, either. IMO, this should also remain where it is.

 

The going rates for any CM item are generally set by what the market will bear, not what you are willing to pay. If people were not willing to pay millions of credits for a 600K escrow or 600K for a 50K escrow, the prices would drop.

 

It has been said many times before, but if you want access to more than 350K credits and are not willing to pay the going rate for escrows, then SUBSCRIBE.

[TX_Angel]

I am currently subscribed with both of my accounts. I wouldn't be able to post here if I wasn't.

 

If my friends who are currently pref - or go pref off and on could not login anymore because all of their characters are 60-65 - I would drop sub and go over to DDO with them. No question about it, I stay in game with them because we enjoy the story here, and can stay together even if any of us allow our subscriptions to drop.

 

Fair enough... but consider that if you're only playing because your friends are, and they are unable/unwilling to sub, then your sub dollars are effectively divided over all those accounts...

 

If you have 3 friends like that, then you are each paying, effectively, $3.50 a month to play.

 

Maybe I'm old school, perhaps I just come from another time. But I think if you want to play, pay. If you don't want to pay (or can't pay), then don't.

 

I frankly feel the $15/month is crazy cheap, perhaps if they had made it higher, they wouldn't have run into such financial troubles. It is very cheap entertainment.

[cool-dude]

Fair enough... but consider that if you're only playing because your friends are, and they are unable/unwilling to sub, then your sub dollars are effectively divided over all those accounts...

 

If you have 3 friends like that, then you are each paying, effectively, $3.50 a month to play.

 

Maybe I'm old school, perhaps I just come from another time. But I think if you want to play, pay. If you don't want to pay (or can't pay), then don't.

 

I frankly feel the $15/month is crazy cheap, perhaps if they had made it higher, they wouldn't have run into such financial troubles. It is very cheap entertainment.

 

It is crazy cheap. I bet if those that refuse to pay that sub add up all the money they have spent on video games, in the past year, they would realize mmos are money savers not money drainers. To me, if you are a gamer, and money is tight, mmos are the best thing to go for in my opinion, especially swtor.

Edited February 5, 2016 by cool-dude

[Stradlin]

It'd be a good idea to increase it.

 

The knee-jerk approach of "WANT MORE MONEY THEN SUB YOU PEASANT" that 1st page heroes kindly provided is kinda futile and counter productive.

 

SWTOR benefits from it if Premium people have little bit more moving space in terms of moneys. Initially, BW gave them a pretty good and fair deal in this regard. You were able to get all kinds of things done with 350k way back when. Inflation has ensured current Premium cred cap is way off the mark BW originally had in mind. 350k cap today is very different to 350k cap few years back.

 

It'd kinda help the economy, reflect the inflation and remain loyal to BW's original approach if the cap would get lifted to 500k or 750k.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Stradlin

[TX_Angel]

It'd be a good idea to increase it.

 

The knee-jerk approach of "WANT MORE MONEY THEN SUB YOU PEASANT" that 1st page heroes kindly provided is kinda futile and counter productive.

 

SWTOR benefits from it if Premium people have little bit more moving space in terms of moneys. Initially, BW gave them a pretty good and fair deal in this regard. You were able to get all kinds of things done with 350k way back when. Inflation has ensured current Premium cred cap is way off the mark BW originally had in mind. 350k cap today is very different to 350k cap few years back.

 

It'd kinda help the economy, reflect the inflation and remain loyal to BW's original approach if the cap would get lifted to 500k or 750k.

 

It would help SWTOR a whole lot more if they would just sub.

 

All I really hear when I read "aww, please lift our little cap", is "aww, I don't wanna pay anymore, raise it *this* much so I can unsub and play free!".

[Stradlin]

It would help SWTOR a whole lot more if they would just sub.

 

All I really hear when I read "aww, please lift our little cap", is "aww, I don't wanna pay anymore, raise it *this* much so I can unsub and play free!".

 

 

You have a pretty bad hearing. It is utterly futile to hide behind some weird " ah I bet all these ppl are just waiting to unsub!! - umbrella.

 

Pretty sure no MMO with Subscription model has ever provided a F2P that wouldn't be all about making a sub out of as many F2P people as possible. That is always the ultimate goal. You need to realize that the argument here is ultimately just about different methods.

Pissing people off by introducing a load of via strict, pain-in-the-arse restrictions until people grow tired of suffering and subscribe Vs Ensuring people have good, wholesome experience, start liking game more and more and eventually feel they have no better option than Subscribing.

 

Both of these can work. I think latter is much better for many different reasons. It saves the game from a stigma of being annoying towards majority of people who try it. Which is kinda nice ?lol

Edited February 5, 2016 by Stradlin

[squirrelballz]

It would help SWTOR a whole lot more if they would just sub.

 

All I really hear when I read "aww, please lift our little cap", is "aww, I don't wanna pay anymore, raise it *this* much so I can unsub and play free!".

 

I'm pretty sure if they raised it to something like 300k for f2p and 600k for pref that those players really wouldn't have anything significant to the point that they can buy whatever shiny they want. I also like what someone posted earlier that pref people who have been subbed for at least 1-2 years should be allowed to have a cap raise. I know plenty of people who are preferred that spend $20-30 a month on cartel coins to buy armor, passes, or packs why is their money worth less than a sub who is paying $15 a month.

 

I think alot of people have misconception that getting a Sub makes you a special snowflake. There are people who spend more money than subs and choose to stay preferred for whatever reason they want to. I myself will never buy CC because I think I'd rather pay $15 and let EA give me CC and let others gamble and buy myself shinies off the GTN. However, I suddenly don't go ah you preferred peasants bow before your sub overlords because I understand people have probably spent more than I have.

[TX_Angel]

You have a pretty bad hearing. It is utterly futile to hide behind some weird " ah I bet all these ppl are just waiting to unsub!! - umbrella.

 

I disagree, I think my hearing works just fine... and that "umbrella" is likely more accurate than you care to consider.

 

Pretty sure no MMO with Subscription model has ever provided a F2P that wouldn't be all about making a sub out of as many F2P people as possible.

 

Well, you can either offer F2P as a trial, to get people to sub, you have to make F2P suck, or you can make F2P turn into P2W if it doesn't suck.

 

What you can't do is give away the whole game and have most people pay nothing for it.

 

Pissing people off by introducing a load of via strict, pain-in-the-arse restrictions until people grow tired of suffering and subscribe Vs Ensuring people have good, wholesome experience, start liking game more and more and eventually feel they have no better option than Subscribing.

 

If the F2P restrictions aren't annoying, then you wouldn't sub, now would you? I think your viewpoint on "treat people nice and give away the game and they'll sub out of the goodness of their hearts" is a little naive.

 

Both of these can work. I think latter is much better for many different reasons. It saves the game from a stigma of being annoying towards majority of people who try it. Which is kinda nice ?lol

 

Except, the game ISN'T annoying, to new people who try it out. None of the restrictions to a brand new player are a big deal. They don't have tons of credits, lots of purple gear, etc. to worry about. The game is amazing and open for a brand new F2P player.

 

It is only when you level up and start to want to do more, that it becomes an issue.

 

What, exactly, do you NEED to buy, that costs over 200k? I'm all ears.

[TX_Angel]

I'm pretty sure if they raised it to something like 300k for f2p and 600k for pref that those players really wouldn't have anything significant to the point that they can buy whatever shiny they want.

 

Sure, then when that happens, you'll repeat the point saying 500k and 1m. At some point, you will reach that number.

 

I can't imagine for the life of me what a free player actually needs to buy, that can't fit within the 200k or 350k limits.

 

I'm not talking about pretty shinies on the GTN, I mean stuff you really need. The game throws gear at you like candy, so it isn't that. You don't NEED a stronghold or other unlocks.

 

What is it that you think you're going to buy for 600k, that you can't buy today for 350k?

 

I know plenty of people who are preferred that spend $20-30 a month on cartel coins to buy armor, passes, or packs why is their money worth less than a sub who is paying $15 a month.

 

Then they are really stupid people.

 

Anyone buying that level of CC who isn't a sub, is REALLY bad at math...

 

There are people who spend more money than subs and choose to stay preferred for whatever reason they want to.

 

Yes, those people exist. That doesn't mean there are tons of them.

[squirrelballz]

Sure, then when that happens, you'll repeat the point saying 500k and 1m. At some point, you will reach that number.

 

I can't imagine for the life of me what a free player actually needs to buy, that can't fit within the 200k or 350k limits.

 

I'm not talking about pretty shinies on the GTN, I mean stuff you really need. The game throws gear at you like candy, so it isn't that. You don't NEED a stronghold or other unlocks.

 

What is it that you think you're going to buy for 600k, that you can't buy today for 350k?

 

Honestly I just think that a cap raise to 600k is reasonable whether they need it or not, it wouldn't be the end of the world if they decided to raise it. If they have more to spend, subs who have no caps make more money off of preferred and I think Subs benefit as well with a cap increase for preferred because they can charge upto 600k on a single item.

 

Then they are really stupid people.

 

Anyone buying that level of CC who isn't a sub, is REALLY bad at math...

 

Or maybe they just don't want to pay $15 dollars on top of buying Armor, Packs, or Character Tokens and etc. Maybe just maybe people have different spending habits and not everyone is the same. Alot of people are just waiting for all the chapters to be released while using their money and CC to buy other things.

 

Yes, those people exist. That doesn't mean there are tons of them.

 

Neither you nor I have those numbers so I will agree to disagree.

Edited February 5, 2016 by squirrelballz

[branmakmuffin]

Have yet to see anyone post something to show how making the game better for people who play for free helps the game.

[thebobmaster]

Have yet to see anyone post something to show how making the game better for people who play for free helps the game.

 

Does the fact that them having more money to spend on the GTN count?

 

 

This isn't pointed at you, by any means, but one argument I do get tired of hearing is the slippery slope one. "We can't raise it, because if we raise it now, they'll ask it to be raised even more later, and before you know it, there won't be a cap at all!" Subs demand that new content be given to them all the time, but somehow, people who have also spent money on the game aren't allowed to ask for changes just because they haven't spent as much money on the game.

[branmakmuffin]

Does the fact that them having more money to spend on the GTN count?

No. How does that help the game make more money? Are subscribers quitting because of poor GTN sales? I seriously doubt it.

 

Subs demand that new content be given to them all the time, but somehow, people who have also spent money on the game aren't allowed to ask for changes just because they haven't spent as much money on the game.

They aren't spending money any more (until they decide to do so again). They got the value for the money they already spent. Money spent on this game is not an investment, it's a fee for a service. You pay for it, you get it, it's over.

[thebobmaster]

They aren't spending money any more (until they decide to do so again). They got the value for the money they already spent. Money spent on this game is not an investment, it's a fee for a service. You pay for it, you get it, it's over.

 

That's fair enough. I think part of the problem is that there is no distinction between someone who has paid $5 into the game, and someone who has been subbed for about 3 years off and on. One's put a lot more money into it, but they are treated the same. Problem is, I'll be the first one to admit that trying to correct that issue would just open up a massive can of worms trying to determine the cut-off between tiers. Doesn't make it any less frustrating, though. Cheers.

[Manathayria]

You don't NEED a stronghold or other unlocks.

 

What is it that you think you're going to buy for 600k, that you can't buy today for 350k?

 

This is actually why I looked at 700k as a decent 'cap' for a pref (prior subscriber of 1 year+) account - it's right below many of the unlocks for Tat and most SHs would mean you'd have to be a sub, or pay in some other way to unlock the rooms in there, and most of the rooms for NS that are over 350k are 1mil+. I would be all for them being able to buy more from subscribers, but would not give them the same buying power as a subscriber.

 

Fair enough... but consider that if you're only playing because your friends are, and they are unable/unwilling to sub, then your sub dollars are effectively divided over all those accounts...

 

If you have 3 friends like that, then you are each paying, effectively, $3.50 a month to play.

 

Maybe I'm old school, perhaps I just come from another time. But I think if you want to play, pay. If you don't want to pay (or can't pay), then don't.

 

I frankly feel the $15/month is crazy cheap, perhaps if they had made it higher, they wouldn't have run into such financial troubles. It is very cheap entertainment.

I play this game because I enjoy this one more than any of the other MMOs at this time. Up to and including WoW. However, I also recognize that with limited play time I'm going to play with my partner when able - which means following to whichever game he's in. Both of us like SWTOR so we are here. I am not here 'only' because of friends, I am here because we both enjoy this game even with the handful of times we go F2P.

 

DDO is our fall back because it is a decent F2P game and we own most of the content (if not all of it) at this point.

 

At the moment my partner (the main one I jump games for) is a subscriber on top of my second account being active. Effectively that means with both of us playing it's 22.50 a month. When his sub lapses I guess the fact I'm here on both accounts would 'cover' for him being around. I don't feel bad about the times he or I have dropped subscription. I kinda also bought the packs on amazon to get the rancor pets and earlier pets which would up that value a bit if not just looking at subs paid. Don't judge dammit!

 

Recently the main reason/time we had me drop sub was due to a CS issue BW/EA couldn't resolve. That is not a financial issue on my part - it is an inability to resolve an issue on EA/BW's part. To be clear;

 

I hit a modified refer a friend link which bypassed the 'accept' and 'decline' options so I couldn't use his when he resubscribed. Bioware/EA couldn't resolve the issue after multiple months of tickets so I dropped subscription to reset my ability to use a link. If I remember time frames correctly I hit the link early october of 2014, stayed subbed till the purple/black crystals were released (march 2015?), then finally gave up and dropped it till the promotion for getting Nico as a companion (thankfully, that was about 3 days after I was finally able to use the links again) resubscribed both accounts and stayed subbed since.

 

Hated every minute of the 90 days without a subscription even though I could 100% bypass the cap with trading credits over to him and having him store my credits in the guild bank. Longest 90 days on SWTOR for me right there.

 

I bought all my unlocks prior to dropping sub as well so I had every authorization possible off the CM plus all expansions, so that wasn't the issue. I also had all of my characters unlocked so I wasn't restricted to which I could log in. I had enough characters between the two accounts that even when he was offline I could bypass the cap and get the majority of what I wanted if I found someone patient enough to trade off or wait for him to get online so I wasn't trading 350k at a time. All of my strongholds were fully unlocked already so they didn't factor in.

 

I hated the idea I couldn't do GSF with full rewards, or PvP with full rewards or do FPs and roll on anything I wanted if I wanted.... even though I rarely did either PvP or FPs... just the idea that I was restricted and my sub was down because of CS issues ticked me off and discouraged me from playing.

 

Usually both of us are subs, but he'll go a few months off and on where he is not a subscriber. If he couldn't log in during those periods... I'd be gone as well. We don't have issues syncing when our subscriptions are up/down if it came down to that. If he could not login due to subscription lapses, that is when I'd be game hopping from here and then they'd 'lose' money.

 

The handful of others include my roommate (who hasn't logged in for... I'm not sure how long but all of his character names appear to be up for grabs now) and one of our friends (who has since gone back to WoW, which I refuse to do).

 

I recognize that there are others who sub here and play here only because of friends (there are several in my current guild), who would fall into the category where their sub may only be worth 3.50 or whatever lower value you want to put on them.

 

I agree with the argument that 'but the subs are supporting the game, F2P should be restricted'. I fully support that and have stated myself that full F2P should be happy with 200k, and the fact they can login at all. I would like to see the cap for pref players increase - but only slightly, and not above around 700k. Even then I would only want to see a change if they were a subscriber at some point. Much like how my prior sub account has 8 character slots (+1 60) when it's sub was down, but my pref account that was never a sub has 6 and no instant 60.

 

I do not agree with blaming the fact they did not charge more per month for why this MMO 'flopped'. That isn't why a game 'flops', it's certainly not why this one went F2P kicking and screaming. As a founder, I saw the initial wave of nerfs/buffs/bugs and I would say those are the reason this game went F2P. They did not fix enough fast enough early on and refused to recognize that any of the issues were from patches they had done. They blamed people's PCs, even when the dxdiag etc showed that was not the case on systems which far exceeded SWTOR's requirement. Also many of the glitches I saw people saying were 'new' with heroics in 4.0 were ones I'd seen near launch and were the reason I avoided those heroics previously. Remember the bug with looting and hunger of the vrblthers? That bug, yea, that had been around since launch, before F2P.

 

Keep this in mind; the new generation is seeing many more MMOs releasing and those are often going with F2P/B2P models now because the market is much more saturated than it was way back when I first started to play. GW1, GW2, TSW (originally to be P2P, changed prior to release to B2P), AoC (F2P with B2P xpacs - was P2P, flopped badly), the list goes on with games that have started going over to F2P because micro trans are where the money is at. There is a reason games like DDO (which fully failed and was under 100k subs by 2008, before it went F2P in 2009 and was hailed a success for how it turned around.)

 

We have more options on where to spend our money for entertainment in MMOs and when to spend it. 10-15$ has been the running standard for subscriptions for MMOs for years. I wouldn't call 15$ for SWTOR 'cheap' I'd call it 'standard' for the given market. How much they charged is not the reason it went to F2P.

 

3.50 for them is still 3.50 they might not otherwise be making. If another MMO can survive as B2P with a cash shop or F2P with a cash shop, this one can easily (and has easily) made a mint off those people who are sticking around because of friends - or because the servers have enough people on them to be worth logging into to play.

 

Then they are really stupid people.

 

Anyone buying that level of CC who isn't a sub, is REALLY bad at math...

 

Armor unlocks etc... I can easily see reasons to buy massive amounts of CC... as an RPer, even if I went F2P, and using that CC on crap like character slots etc which have no real impact on the game whatsoever.

 

It's not a matter of being really bad at math, or stupid, it's those people sinking that amount of cc into the game are really interested in specific things - not the full game.

 

Even with the monthly CC from my subscription if I unlocked all the CM items I like I would easily burn through the 500cc per month plus some just off unlocking cosmetics.

 

Anyway...

Edited February 5, 2016 by Manathayria

[Stradlin]

If the F2P restrictions aren't annoying, then you wouldn't sub, now would you? I think your viewpoint on "treat people nice and give away the game and they'll sub out of the goodness of their hearts" is a little naive.

 

I'm not gonna start some epic point-counterpoint war with a person who speaks of " trials" with a straight face, as valid option to an F2P in any kind of a post 2011 context at all.

 

I'll say this much though:

I warmly recommend you to look into payment models of some of the most successful (financially as well as in terms of popularity) Free to Play PC games out there. If you think any of them is all about punishing people for not paying, you are in for a surprise.

 

In fact, you don't actually have to look any further than TOR, heh. It has always offered a quite fair F2P model really. I wonder if you actually have some valid reason as to why F2P people should be restricted and annoyed at every turn? Besides some petty BUT I PAY FOR IT, AARG! - thing. Making sure F2P people are happy gets em addicted. It means good things for the game in the long run.. It really is that simple. Big enough percentage of people who like the game start caring for the game. That is also the moment when they start throwing money at it.

[TX_Angel]

Or maybe they just don't want to pay $15 dollars on top of buying Armor, Packs, or Character Tokens and etc. Maybe just maybe people have different spending habits and not everyone is the same. Alot of people are just waiting for all the chapters to be released while using their money and CC to buy other things.

 

Or... no, still bad at math...

 

Most of those items they want to buy (if not all of them) are sold on the GTN, easy to buy with in game currency, the same currency they'll have access to as a sub.

 

If you sub for 6 months at a time, it is under $80, works out to $13 a month, but you also get 600 CC a month as a reward. That is about $5 worth, making your sub an effective $8 a month.

 

Over those 6 months, you'll get 3,600CC and the ability to buy all that armor off the GTN and have no F2P restrictions.

 

Anyone spending $20+ a month on CC, yet won't sub, is spending at least $120 over that 6 months and has all the F2P restrictions.

 

So spend $40 less, still get CC, and have no limits.

[TX_Angel]

Neither you nor I have those numbers so I will agree to disagree.

 

EA revealed in an earnings report a year or so ago that some 80% of CM purchases were from subs.

 

Lets be honest, basic logic indicates that someone unwilling to pony up $15, isn't likely spending $40 buying 5,500CC packs. At least not very many of them.

[TX_Angel]

Does the fact that them having more money to spend on the GTN count?

 

No, not really... the current limits have not prevented me from becoming crazy wealthy in the game... I don't need more customers...

 

This isn't pointed at you, by any means, but one argument I do get tired of hearing is the slippery slope one. "We can't raise it, because if we raise it now, they'll ask it to be raised even more later, and before you know it, there won't be a cap at all!" Subs demand that new content be given to them all the time, but somehow, people who have also spent money on the game aren't allowed to ask for changes just because they haven't spent as much money on the game.

 

"I spent $5 once, I demand stuff!"

 

You probably didn't mean it that way, but that is how it came across.

 

You're not a sub, you're preferred? Well, either be happy you can play at all, or sub. This "but I wanna play for FREEEEEEE" crap gets really old.

 

I wish I could blame the "app generation", not wanting to spend even $5 on an app for their phone or tablet, but I'm sure it started before then.

 

If you like the game, pay for it. If you don't, why are you playing? Seriously, stop with the "gimmie, gimmie, gimmie" demands.

[TX_Angel]

No. How does that help the game make more money? Are subscribers quitting because of poor GTN sales? I seriously doubt it.

 

 

They aren't spending money any more (until they decide to do so again). They got the value for the money they already spent. Money spent on this game is not an investment, it's a fee for a service. You pay for it, you get it, it's over.

 

Crap, I'm agreeing with muffin, I think someplace just froze over!