How did the emperor...

[ClayPeopleCry]

How did the emperor build an army big enough and strong enough to crush both the empire and republic without anyone noticing until it was to late? Also if he could have done that why even bother starting up a new empire rather then just strengthening the one you already have?

[Joachimthbear]

 

He didn't build the Eternal Fleet, he hijacked it. It's been around longer than the Eternal Empire. Zakuul does have other forces (well, did; not so much now) but the Eternal Fleet was the reason Zakuul had the strength to take on both the Sith Empire and Republic at once. That was also a lot easier to do because the Sith Empire and Republic were both exhausted after years of war against each other.

 

Nobody knew because long-distance travel and communication in Star Wars move at the speed of plot. It's always been the case that there are lost or unexplored worlds in the galaxy, enough to hide entire interstellar civilisations (though perhaps not one on the same scale as the Republic, for example). The Eternal Empire was isolated and far away and it's best not to think too hard about it, since the same excuse is the only reason the Sith Empire could exist either.

 

[EzioMessi]

He didn't build the Eternal Fleet, he hijacked it. It's been around longer than the Eternal Empire. Zakuul does have other forces (well, did; not so much now) but the Eternal Fleet was the reason Zakuul had the strength to take on both the Sith Empire and Republic at once. That was also a lot easier to do because the Sith Empire and Republic were both exhausted after years of war against each other.

 

Nobody knew because long-distance travel and communication in Star Wars move at the speed of plot. It's always been the case that there are lost or unexplored worlds in the galaxy, enough to hide entire interstellar civilisations (though perhaps not one on the same scale as the Republic, for example). The Eternal Empire was isolated and far away and it's best not to think too hard about it, since the same excuse is the only reason the Sith Empire could exist either.

 

I don't see why interstellar unexplored region is something you shouldnt think too hard about. We haven't even explored a fraction of our own planets surfaces, and have barely document a fraction of all species that exist on the planet. Why would interstellar travel be any different? If planets don't lie along major trade routes there's simply no reason to have explored them, hell even a section of the galactic core remains uncharted, or charted yet avoided, as we seen in the chronologically later EU material. Besides iirc the UR and Wild Space have been common "wilderness" archetypes to all Star Wars storytelling, where the difficulty and risk of travel into both is a motivating factor for developments inside it. Which, makes sense. You see a lot of that in our own history on the planet.

[ClayPeopleCry]

Ok that still doesn't explain why he thought it was a better idea to attack both forces at once rather than merge the two empires he now controls into one and thus proceed to crush his enemies. Edited January 30, 2016 by ClayPeopleCry

[Frost_D]

Because maybe he did not wanted an empire full of traitors and people without loyalty.

You see within the Sith Empire you get your rank after betraying your masters and those who are above you in rank.

 

The People of Zakuul loved their Emperor aka the Sith Emperor. Within the Eternal Empire he had loyal soldiers.

[adormitul]

They also tried to kill a couple of times his sith subjects of course all of the attempts failed but you really begin to hate them after a while.

[EzioMessi]

Ok that still doesn't explain why he thought it was a better idea to attack both forces at once rather than merge the two empires he now controls into one and thus proceed to crush his enemies.

 

You can explain the motivation in two different ways, and based on what I'm thinking maybe both will turn out to be right? I don't really no.

 

 

His pre-KotFE Vitiate persona just wanted death and destruction, so it made sense to attack both sides, instead of combining forces, because a 1v1v1 where one is significantly stronger than the other two will cause HUGE casualties versus combining forces and doing a 2v1, where the combined 2 may very well suffer no defeats (especially because the Empire was the only one with ships that could outrun the fleet in the first place).

 

His sudden change Valkorion person (assuming it isn't a charade) loves the Eternal Empire and its people, a love he never felt for the Sith Empire. Maybe the Sith Empire was just a means to an end, a way to consume enough lives to become immortal without harming his own subjects, or maybe he pulled off some Revan-like split personality where his one half was Vitiate, evil for the sake of it, and what we're seeing is Valkorion, loving towards his subjects, but tyrannical to enemies. In that case, if Valk is not lying about his intentions, he simply never loved the Sith to begin with, so had no qualms about destroying them when his better Empire needed it. From a purely logical perspective, the above posters are right. I'd never join forces with an Empire that exists on the foundation of backstabbing. Maybe certain elements of it (my JK joins Darth Marr after all) but as a whole, the Empire is impossible to predict and thus, a horrible ally.

 

Thus if you think of Vitiate, he wanted more death, and of Valk, he wanted the Eternal Empire to survive his false empire and the Republic.

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by EzioMessi

[Razorspades]

I am not sure when, but at some point before confronting Revan and Malak, during his recluse and studies the Emperor learned about the Eternal Fleet. Then after he captured Revan and transferred his essence into the first Voice, he also transferred some of it into the Valkorion body. So while Vitiate was ruling the Empire, Valkorion managed to take control of the Eternal Fleet and then took over Zakuul. He was able to focus on both empires and Valkorion had three children with Senya. The reason Valkorion was so distant to his children was because his Vitiate half was required most of his attention on the Great Galactic War against the Republic.

[Vaxael]

How did the emperor build an army big enough and strong enough to crush both the empire and republic without anyone noticing until it was to late? Also if he could have done that why even bother starting up a new empire rather then just strengthening the one you already have?

 

Because PLOT. (and lazy writing...)

[Nehoda_Niux]

Quite simply, the Rakatan Infinite Empire made *two* Star Forges!

 

*Nico nod*

[Codedrago]

Quite simply, the Rakatan Infinite Empire made *two* Star Forges!

 

*Nico nod*

 

They made three actually.

[JediAkemi]

The Star Forge in KotOR1, the Foundry, and the Infinite Engine?

Although I seem to recall Malgus' lines before Boarding Party suggesting that the Empire knows of four such things that could create infinite stuff.

[adormitul]

Then why is a ship from the eternal fleet better then a empire or republic fleet?

Really why are they faster and with better firepower. I do not remember the fleets Revan's empire had to be that good they even lost battles against the republic fleet.

[Codedrago]

The Star Forge in KotOR1, the Foundry, and the Infinite Engine?

Although I seem to recall Malgus' lines before Boarding Party suggesting that the Empire knows of four such things that could create infinite stuff.

 

Malgus's line is what I'm referring to (And the infinate engine isn't a starforge, they are all space stations of some kind). The third one is the one that can supposedly terraform planets.

[Airen_Fett]

There is a possibility that is being overlooked here, and that is perhaps the Emperor Vitiate/Valkorian actually BECAME a Celestial. It is possible. And it can be done without repercussions on an Abeloth-ian scale. it would explain how he found and was able to control what is most likely Celestial technology. Just a thought.

 

Also, it is interesting that the Dark Sanctuary on the Gravestone contains what appears to be a Mortis Shard. Which is a Celestial construct. Could be a clue as to how they powered the ship against the Eternal Fleet?

Edited February 17, 2016 by Airen_Fett
Additional Idea

[Retrogame]

Honestly I've struggled with this. It seems to me that what REALLY happened was the writers decided to ret-con the Emperor's actions. Up until the end of Ziost the writing seemed to be going towards "OK the Emperor has become COMPLETELY unhinged and he just wants to cause the apocalypse."

 

...and then we get KOTFE where we now have to accept Valkorian as being the same guy but the whole thing was a lie. He didn't really want to destroy the galaxy, he just told you that to keep you on your toes. He vaped the people on Ziost and that was good enough and now he's different.

 

Heck in game if you ask him the question, Valkorian just says "change overtakes us all" i.e. "they retconned my personality! And changed voice actors!"

 

So now we have our retconned supervillain with his infinite starfleet of droid battlecruisers that he pulled out of nowhere and yet somehow, one stupid bounty hunter shoots him in the back while Arcann keeps him distracted and it's all over? You're saying he can be in two places at once on the opposite ends of the galaxy but "hey look, what's that over there?!" works on him?? Now he's a ghost inside your head?

 

Now that I see it all written out it's laughable. I give up.

[BrianDavion]

Honestly I've struggled with this. It seems to me that what REALLY happened was the writers decided to ret-con the Emperor's actions. Up until the end of Ziost the writing seemed to be going towards "OK the Emperor has become COMPLETELY unhinged and he just wants to cause the apocalypse."

 

...and then we get KOTFE where we now have to accept Valkorian as being the same guy but the whole thing was a lie. He didn't really want to destroy the galaxy, he just told you that to keep you on your toes. He vaped the people on Ziost and that was good enough and now he's different.

 

Heck in game if you ask him the question, Valkorian just says "change overtakes us all" i.e. "they retconned my personality! And changed voice actors!"

 

So now we have our retconned supervillain with his infinite starfleet of droid battlecruisers that he pulled out of nowhere and yet somehow, one stupid bounty hunter shoots him in the back while Arcann keeps him distracted and it's all over? You're saying he can be in two places at once on the opposite ends of the galaxy but "hey look, what's that over there?!" works on him?? Now he's a ghost inside your head?

 

Now that I see it all written out it's laughable. I give up.

 

he didn't seem at all displeased when killed. my read? he fully INTENDED to die.

[cool-dude]

he didn't seem at all displeased when killed. my read? he fully INTENDED to die.

 

See, that's the flaw in the story right there. After he dies, he is worried about his children destroying everything he built. When he was in physical form, he is in a position to keep Arcann from screwing things up, because Arcann is no match for him. If he let himself die, why is he worried about his kids ruining everything, when it's his own damn fault if they do? If he was worried about Arcann, and didn't want to kill him, he could of crippled Arcann, or knocked him out, as Arcann is no match for his father.

Edited February 19, 2016 by cool-dude

[OldVengeance]

Yeah it doesn't really make sense that on Ziost he was so powerful that even without a body he could destroy an entire planet to feed on it's death, but now he can't stop Arcann and Vaylin without your help.

[Joachimthbear]

See, that's the flaw in the story right there.

Why is that a flaw? Vitiate's a spirit that wears human bodies like other people wear clothes. It's no big deal to him to lose Valkorion's body if yours somehow serves his plans better.

 

Yeah it doesn't really make sense that on Ziost he was so powerful that even without a body he could destroy an entire planet to feed on it's death, but now he can't stop Arcann and Vaylin without your help.

There are a few ways that could be explained - maybe the way he was "killed" on Dromund Kaas damaged him more seriously than he expected and his essence is slowly bleeding away, maybe keeping the Outlander alive in carbonite for five years drained him and left him no opportunity to "feed", maybe he's hedged his bets by sharing out his essence between multiple hosts. Maybe some combination of the above. Maybe he's just been lying to you every time he opens his mouth.

[FlameYOL]

There is a possibility that is being overlooked here, and that is perhaps the Emperor Vitiate/Valkorian actually BECAME a Celestial. It is possible. And it can be done without repercussions on an Abeloth-ian scale. it would explain how he found and was able to control what is most likely Celestial technology. Just a thought.

 

Also, it is interesting that the Dark Sanctuary on the Gravestone contains what appears to be a Mortis Shard. Which is a Celestial construct. Could be a clue as to how they powered the ship against the Eternal Fleet?

 

Hmmm,it would have explained how he was able to consume ziost and Nathema,could he have perhaps made a deal with Abeloth to use the fountain of power?Or did he found another way to become a force entity?Your theory is quite interesting and i hope it becomes true,since the celestials are majorly unkown and a little bit of light on them would be great.

[AnotherSith]

I still don't think Valkorian is Vitiate and he is instead just messing with us because he finds it amusing to pretend.

 

I'd like to think that Vitiate was only half honest with the Jedi Knight and that Revan was to weaken the Republic but get them ready for an all out slaughter with the Empire (Until Malak went totally off the rails and stated to waste everything) while letting Revan merely THINK he was saving the Republic.

 

Then Vitiate would feed off the death of the wars until he could start mass possessing planets to force the inhabitants to kill each other and feed off that (I didn't like that BioWare gave Vitiate Nihlus level power without any of the drawbacks and yet no insistence on continuing to use it because "He's so crazy" which just comes off as lazy writing to me).

 

Eventually he gets his wish of feeding off so much death he becomes immortal and uses Zakuul as the staging area to repopulate the galaxy under a puppet dynasty of Valkorians linage (which is why he would only want one son). So he feeds off the galaxy to go to a "new one" from a certain point of view. Only to have Valkorian go off the rails now since Vitiate's plan has ultimately failed and he is retreating to think of something new.

 

Of course that is what I'd like to see.....but honestly I'd be happy with wondering where the heck my ghosts went off to and why my Sorc hasn't tried to Forcewalk Valk with the other ghosts as support if only to get him to shut up.

[FlameYOL]

I still don't think Valkorian is Vitiate and he is instead just messing with us because he finds it amusing to pretend.

 

I'd like to think that Vitiate was only half honest with the Jedi Knight and that Revan was to weaken the Republic but get them ready for an all out slaughter with the Empire (Until Malak went totally off the rails and stated to waste everything) while letting Revan merely THINK he was saving the Republic.

 

Then Vitiate would feed off the death of the wars until he could start mass possessing planets to force the inhabitants to kill each other and feed off that (I didn't like that BioWare gave Vitiate Nihlus level power without any of the drawbacks and yet no insistence on continuing to use it because "He's so crazy" which just comes off as lazy writing to me).

 

Eventually he gets his wish of feeding off so much death he becomes immortal and uses Zakuul as the staging area to repopulate the galaxy under a puppet dynasty of Valkorians linage (which is why he would only want one son). So he feeds off the galaxy to go to a "new one" from a certain point of view. Only to have Valkorian go off the rails now since Vitiate's plan has ultimately failed and he is retreating to think of something new.

 

Of course that is what I'd like to see.....but honestly I'd be happy with wondering where the heck my ghosts went off to and why my Sorc hasn't tried to Forcewalk Valk with the other ghosts as support if only to get him to shut up.

Yeah,i bet Horak-mul Would not be pleased to see valky taking over me,since he basically was kressh's right hand and vitiate at the time was a mere ruler of a farming planet if i'm not mistaken.