Why the harassment and toxic playerbase?

[Manathayria]

I really dont get why i should have to put up with harassment from other players in SWTOR.

If its not me its someon eelse that get harrassed almost every time an ops or fp goes wrong.

Name calling, idiot, moron, *********** **** asre some of the Words youre likely to hear both in groups and general chat.

 

Do you think this is acceptable, something EA and BW stands behind, an acceptable downside of free speach in an MMO ?

They limited your free speech when you logged into the MMO. That would be in the TOS and RoC posted below.

 

Pugs are really bad with tacticals right now as people who have some healing abilities usually will not use them to keep themselves up, then rage because without a tank, the healer couldn't keep them up. In cases with classes like sorc, they never once bubbled etc to help keep themselves alive before they went squish. Usually I end up on the receiving end of the abuse here because as the healer, I wasn't able to do my 'job' to keep them up. It's discouraged me from queuing heals and generally means I que dps even while in a healing spec.

 

It's not acceptable to abuse someone else in your group because you didn't plan how to keep yourself up in the tactical FP / etc. Tacticals = you are responsible for you. Yet I see heaps of abuse over wipes (because no one wanted to leave the CC alone/use what CC we had) or because someone is dying and feels they are entitled and should be kept up by someone else. It is a game, nothing here is worth abusing someone else over. Take a deep breath and walk away or remove the person that is causing the wipes if it's HM or an OPS.

 

With the total lack of ingame GMs, (has anyone ever seen one?) the game is open to harassment and bullying.

Ill seriously reconsider re-subbing since this takes the enjoyment out of the game.

 

And, yes, i can ignore them, but then its already too late, isnt it?

 

I would like to see EA and BW stepping up as a Company and set the foot down.

 

My partner has done live chat with a GM before with one of his issues getting fixed, however, I've never seen a GM in game. They really do not have a presence and I think they should.

 

Players that feel the need to abuse others should have actions taken against them/their accounts, and those of us that see the abuse going on should take action to try getting them to calm down, then report/ignore.

 

I get it, you're anon, I get it that people say 'but it's the internet, people will do what they want and free speech, if you don't like free speech...'.

 

I have this to say to those who argue 'but freedom of speech'. Your freedom and rights are to a point put on hold when you log into an MMO.

 

There are terms of service everyone agreed to, you agreed to follow community guidelines and agreed to follow their code of conduct. By logging into swtor you agree to these, and maybe, you need a reminder that just because you have the right to say something outside the game, doesn't mean you have the right in it;

 

http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct

 

Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players.

 

Harassment is also any behavior that is incessant, inescapable, derogatory and directed specifically at you or your group. Before reporting, a genuine attempt to alleviate the situation should be made by leaving the area or the offending player, or asking them politely to stop. If a sincere attempt has been made to solve the problem and the offending player persists in the behavior, it should be reported.

 

Behavior that is always considered harassment includes derogatory and/or hateful comments that are sexual, racist, religious, or related to gender or creed.

 

A judgment of valid harassment can result in penalties placed on the harassing party up to and including immediate account closure, based on the severity of harassment and the player's past account history.

 

Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.

 

Edit;

I do use ignore, and report in cases where it becomes necessary. They probably won't take action against the guy that snaps once and calls someone an 'idiot' but they certainly will if you took action to try removing them or told them to tone it down and they turned to harassment and decided to become more vulgar. If as a community we make it clear the ******** isn't going to be tolerated, we can change the attitudes within the game to a point and create a less toxic community.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Manathayria
Final statement :p

[Sarfux]

I have noticed in the past 5 months or so the "general" chat has gotten exceptionally bad in game. It's horrible. You can't get a question in or somebody can't say "hi guys" without being told to "shutup" or "ahole" or "i screwed your mom last night" and then somebody starts bringing up religion and politics and it gets into a whole argument about race and stuff. It's disgusting what it's become on the Fleets and the capital planets. Sometimes Nar Shaddaa now. Internet jerkwad theory at work here

 

I have turned off general now because I don't need to hear somebody talking about genocide, racism and antisemitism because there are NO consequences online for behavior. I don't need to see that crap. Disgusting. THATS the bad part of the internet.

 

Some people are like cows. One goes, they all do it because "oh! that guy can act like that and do that, so I will to!" and on and on and on. It's gotten out of control.

[Pagy]

I have noticed in the past 5 months or so the "general" chat has gotten exceptionally bad in game. It's horrible. You can't get a question in or somebody can't say "hi guys" without being told to "shutup" or "ahole" or "i screwed your mom last night" and then somebody starts bringing up religion and politics and it gets into a whole argument about race and stuff. It's disgusting what it's become on the Fleets and the capital planets. Sometimes Nar Shaddaa now. Internet jerkwad theory at work here

 

I have turned off general now because I don't need to hear somebody talking about genocide, racism and antisemitism because there are NO consequences online for behavior. I don't need to see that crap. Disgusting. THATS the bad part of the internet.

 

Some people are like cows. One goes, they all do it because "oh! that guy can act like that and do that, so I will to!" and on and on and on. It's gotten out of control.

why do you hate free speech so much?

[Eillack]

Man people are still feeding this?

 

OP hasn't posted for pages, and this is foolish back and forth arguing is probably part of what they wanted to create. The OP made it clear yesterday that this thread was an attention grab.

[-BlackDragon-]

Oh noes! Some random guy on the internet called me names, guess I'd better cry myself to sleep tonight

[Saelinne]

It's group finder and it happens in every single mmo ever made that has a group finder systen. The only way to get away from it is to run with a set group of people.

 

....can we insert one little ''may'' in there? If you use the GF function you will meet (especially if no one there is more experienced and takes command) people that are less...careful with their comments than they should (again there is 700+ page thread with such cases), but imo you have the same chance to get in a nice party...

 

...but let me point out that I have characters only on one server and it might be different on others...I doubt it that there is such difference but I might be wrong:)

 

 

Pugs are really bad with tacticals right now as people who have some healing abilities usually will not use them to keep themselves up, then rage because without a tank, the healer couldn't keep them up. In cases with classes like sorc, they never once bubbled etc to help keep themselves alive before they went squish. Usually I end up on the receiving end of the abuse here because as the healer, I wasn't able to do my 'job' to keep them up. It's discouraged me from queuing heals and generally means I que dps even while in a healing spec.

 

 

 

Mmm....I wouldn't say that DPSs die so very fast without a tank. Personally I think you just had the misfortune to party with bad DPSs and thus why you were having problems keeping them up:)

(but you are absolutely right that in tactical FPs people have to try to stay alive on their own - use DCDs etc...)

[Sarfux]

Oh noes! Some random guy on the internet called me names, guess I'd better cry myself to sleep tonight

 

You got it! :(

[Manathayria]

Mmm....I wouldn't say that DPSs die so very fast without a tank. Personally I think you just had the misfortune to party with bad DPSs and thus why you were having problems keeping them up:)

(but you are absolutely right that in tactical FPs people have to try to stay alive on their own - use DCDs etc...)

I've had some awesome DPS that were good with keeping themselves up or learned to with a little coaching on the idea that I wasn't asking them to group heal - I was asking them to use their CDs to buy themselves time for the healer to get to them, or for me to get to them.

 

But the ones that decide to turn abusive after they get melted for making a big pull - those are the ones that are an issue.

 

Man people are still feeding this?

 

OP hasn't posted for pages, and this is foolish back and forth arguing is probably part of what they wanted to create. The OP made it clear yesterday that this thread was an attention grab.

 

Even if it's an attention grab - it's still a hot topic and something that should be addressed, and the community should remember they can do something about it. This has been acknowledged by bioware as an issue and is addressed in the ToS.

[BobFredJohn]

Welcome to the Internet / MMOs?

 

I second this (or third/fourth, depending on how many others seconded it too).

 

to quote a very smart man, saying you're offended is nothing more than a whine.

 

Was that Fry or Hitchens? also that was a great show

___________________________________

 

Also I have a way of looking at internet "abuse."

 

Some stranger that I will probably never meet (and wouldn't even know it was them if I did) speculates about the size, or lack thereof of my privates.

 

WHO *********** CARES?

 

apparently the UN, if that Sarkeesian person is anything to go by lol.

Edited January 29, 2016 by BobFredJohn

[Halinalle]

Didn't get to ToS group 1 hour ago because I don't have achievements. How do you get achievements without getting them?

[Pagy]

you get them on your own time when you learn the operations that came out over a year ago and not burden the pug

[rantboi]

Didn't get to ToS group 1 hour ago because I don't have achievements. How do you get achievements without getting them?

 

you get achievements when you join a group that doesn't care about them. they do exist. I just did sm tos with a group that had 5 first timers.

[foxxecho]

This is just a reality the OP should find a place for (unfortunately).

However I think it is important to recognize the impact that behaviors like the OP speaks of can have on the game.

 

I see a lot of opinions about lack of group content being developed, but every time someone is ripped to shreds and is turned off from participating in it, it helps justify that lack of group content focus.

 

I understand that wiping because someone is making the same mistake over and over isn't fun and something needs to done, but I just hope that people who want group content consider that bringing people into the fold is important before snapping. As it is always easier to tear something down than build it up.

 

The unseen fourth part of the MMO Trinity is the necessary humans to play the roles. So I hope if someone has their class/the encounters on lock they try to remember that they cannot do it alone before reacting to a frustrating situation.

 

It reminds me of some old song lyrics:

"You're perfect . Yes it's true. --But without me, you're only you."

Edited January 29, 2016 by foxxecho

[Ayble]

It is totally unacceptable, but it is a fact of MMOs. Those types of players have always existed and always will. So what can you do to mitigate the toxicity? Use /ignore. When enough other players ignore the offending player for their offensive behavior they will no longer be able to group.

 

And there is a system already in place for extreme harassment. You just need PROOF like screenshots of chat.

 

In EQ1 this was called blacklisting, it did wonders in curbing the more obnoxious players. However since the arrival of the entitled WoW crowd those types have multiplied horrendously.

[casirabit]

It is totally unacceptable, but it is a fact of MMOs. Those types of players have always existed and always will. So what can you do to mitigate the toxicity? Use /ignore. When enough other players ignore the offending player for their offensive behavior they will no longer be able to group.

 

And there is a system already in place for extreme harassment. You just need PROOF like screenshots of chat.

 

There is another step my guild takes. If we run across someone that is like this instead of just the one guild member putting them on ignore, we let the guild know and then they wind up on the ignore list for the entire guild so in that case we need one more person for a fp or something we know we will not get that person.

[Myracarrah]

The harassment and toxicity of Group Finder anything is, because you had to wait for Group Finder to find you anything. Added in with constant wipes, group mates who can not follow simple directions, and the poorly chosen (and under-leveled) gear atleast two of your teammates will be wearing.

 

Anyone signing up for Group Finder should know going in, that A) you will be teaching fight mechanics. B) you will die often. C) you will have to sit down for 15 minutes explaining basic game play and gear.

 

Group Finder is not for the faint of heart, or for those low on patience. Think of Group Finder as 'entry level groups'. This is not the well oiled machine you are looking for. This is grouping with training wheels. You are going to fall. You are going to skin your knees. You are probably going to cry.

 

I am not going to say Group Finder is for 'bads' because it isn't. It is an awesome recruiting tool most guilds do not consider (seriously pick up that person who knows what interrupt is and hits the heal boxes). It is also a place for many solo players to learn the mechanics of the game that they didn't learn soloing. Just because they have to learn, doesn't make them 'bad'.

 

Verbally abusing someone for not knowing the mechanics of a fight is basically a dbag move and it makes it clear to everyone else in the group why that 'SuperDooperAwesomePlayer' has to run group finder for their weekly. Even their guild does not want them.

[Cindron]

What is sad are those who say "deal with it, it's the internet" they are just excusing what is often their behavior as well. No one says you have to be an obnoxious troll but for some reason, most likely the inability to deal with others in real life, they rage on full of righteous indignation and arrogance.

 

All you can do is maintain your own good conduct, treating people as you would like to be treated. Will they take note and do the same, probably not but what matters is that it does not compromise you behavior. For many of them thats what is desired, negative attention is better than none.

 

A good example of the above was when I arrived on a planet and a bunch of people were hammering one calling her/him every idiotic name they could for asking questions about their character class. I sent a whisper saying "sorry for the harassment, hang in there, if you have a question just ask me." The immediate response I got was "YOU BORE ME, i stopped reading before finishing your first sentence."

 

So it was trolls, feeding trolls. I did what I felt was correct and moved on, killed general chat and enjoyed the game.

 

All ya can do sometimes

[StrangeDais]

why are you looking for mommy and daddy to protect you from other people? too late after you ignore them? what does that mean...some stranger that you'll never meet on the internet dresses as a space wizard calls you a name and this affects you somehow?

 

the game offers many tools to censor and ignore players if you choose. they are only words and if you hate free speech and other people's words so much, perhaps you'd be better off with any of a number of singleplayer games.

Agreed. While its not pleasant to encounter those individuals, you need to develop a thicker skin and stop being a victim. As mentioned, either ignore the person and move on or stoop to their level and get in their face in return. As the saying goes, "Never be the one to start a fight but always finish it."

Edited January 29, 2016 by StrangeDais

[Vaxael]

why are you looking for mommy and daddy to protect you from other people? too late after you ignore them? what does that mean...some stranger that you'll never meet on the internet dresses as a space wizard calls you a name and this affects you somehow?

 

the game offers many tools to censor and ignore players if you choose. they are only words and if you hate free speech and other people's words so much, perhaps you'd be better off with any of a number of singleplayer games.

 

Wow. Somehow, I knew I would find you here. It is funny that you use an Ad Hominem (name-calling) argument in a forum SPECIFICALLY about bullies. I am legitimately laughing. Please, no more ignorant replies from you.

[Vaxael]

A lot of people seem to be replying with "that's how it has always been" type responses. Is that not circular reasoning? As I love to bring up in such forums, it is a logical fallacy.

 

I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is merely a good example of such reasoning:

God is real, because God wrote the Bible and the Bible says that God is real.

 

What I am really trying to get at, is that saying a problem should be ignored because it has always been that way is a HORRIBLE way to look at things. By that line of logic, slavery would be legal, people of color couldn't vote, women couldn't vote, LGBT marriage would not only be illegal, but even BEING LGBT would be illegal, possibly punishable by death. Not to mention, we would still live in a feudal society ruled by theocratic monarchs, the earth would be the center of the universe, and women could be stoned to death for being the victims of sexual assault.

 

Please, refrain from circular reasoning.

[Pagy]

Wow. Somehow, I knew I would find you here. It is funny that you use an Ad Hominem (name-calling) argument in a forum SPECIFICALLY about bullies. I am legitimately laughing. Please, no more ignorant replies from you.

that's not what ad hominem means. pls try again. maybe try a dictionary.

[Mirandel]

Oh, and for the record, im old enough to be the parent of most players here, and if faced with any of them in rl, id happily grab them by the ear and listened to their screaming apologies :-)

 

Oh, my! You came to the playground for kids and feel offended they call you names?! And you call yourself adult?!

 

If you insist on playing with strangers, at least find like-minded strangers. There are guild for 50+ , there are guild with policies "absolutely no rude language", there are guilds, period! You find or create a comfortable environment, but you do not demand from the owner of playground to police his property in a way that any user of that playground is matching internal rules for behavior of every other user.

[Vaxael]

that's not what ad hominem means. pls try again. maybe try a dictionary.

 

Actually, it is. An ad hominem argument is any kind of argument that attacks the arguer rather than the argument. Stop being a bully, and actually try and be constructive.

 

Oh, and your accusations of me making the same fallacy is merely me calling out YOUR fallacious arguments, and frankly insensitive borderline harassment of people in these chats.

[MWidowmaker]

A lot of people seem to be replying with "that's how it has always been" type responses. Is that not circular reasoning? As I love to bring up in such forums, it is a logical fallacy.

 

I do not mean to offend anyone, but this is merely a good example of such reasoning:

God is real, because God wrote the Bible and the Bible says that God is real.

 

What I am really trying to get at, is that saying a problem should be ignored because it has always been that way is a HORRIBLE way to look at things. By that line of logic, slavery would be legal, people of color couldn't vote, women couldn't vote, LGBT marriage would not only be illegal, but even BEING LGBT would be illegal, possibly punishable by death. Not to mention, we would still live in a feudal society ruled by theocratic monarchs, the earth would be the center of the universe, and women could be stoned to death for being the victims of sexual assault.

 

Please, refrain from circular reasoning.

 

normally i would agree with you, but not this time. it really has been like that and there are no real ways as a community to do anything about it except as individuals to filter them out. god may be real but man wrote the bible.

the problem cant and shouldnt be ignored, but the people who cause the problem should and in my case already are, filter or no filter, they are simply not worth my time.

[Vhaegrant]

I really dont get why i should have to put up with harassment from other players in SWTOR.

If its not me its someon eelse that get harrassed almost every time an ops or fp goes wrong.

Name calling, idiot, moron, *********** **** asre some of the Words youre likely to hear both in groups and general chat.

 

Do you think this is acceptable, something EA and BW stands behind, an acceptable downside of free speach in an MMO ?

 

With the total lack of ingame GMs, (has anyone ever seen one?) the game is open to harassment and bullying.

Ill seriously reconsider re-subbing since this takes the enjoyment out of the game.

 

And, yes, i can ignore them, but then its already too late, isnt it?

 

I would like to see EA and BW stepping up as a Company and set the foot down.

I'm surprised no one has put a link to the Rules of Conduct yet.

It's surprising how much of a cost policing player harassment in an MMO can be. One of the reasons some MMOs defer the supply of VoIP to third party suppliers is that it's just too expensive to keep them well policed. It's also why there are such tight restrictions on how creative players get to be (not sure how well this link will go with the filters http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/06/01/lego-universes-developers-didnt-anticipate-the-*****-cost ). Of course, there's also the psychology behind the fact that as soon as an activity is deemed antisocial/ illegal it becomes more attractive.

 

Don't be surprised if some of these elements have become automated, or you just get a standard response letter. It is Bioware policy not to discuss actions taken just to acknowledge that they have received your complaint.

 

Just use a bit of common sense and the tools at hand.

The best bit of advice I could give is to put a bit of effort into expanding your friends list to include good players and/or join a guild.