adormitul Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Luke was never morally gray. He was full on light side. At least if we're talking films. Some of the EU treatment of the character was the quality of bad fanfiction. (Dark Horse comics, I'm looking at you) Really full on light side you know that he decided not to investigate Darth Krayth further since he believed that the galaxy needs both light and dark. That is not full on light side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Really full on light side you know that he decided not to investigate Darth Krayth further since he believed that the galaxy needs both light and dark. That is not full on light side. In the films not EU. The EU barely had a cohesive narrative, they did with Luke whatever they wanted to fit the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 To be fair Revan is actually the perfect example of what happens to people who try to be gray Force users; he was corrupted. Revan was not a Light side user in SWTOR at all, he was completely obsessed with wiping out the Sith and Vitiate, he fell. As for the Knights of Zakuul (bar Valky) they're just using the basic Force powers, IIRC none of them have used anything beyond TK. We've seen Vaylin choke people and kill people for no reason so she's a Dark Sider. Arcann appears to be a Dark Sider too. Revan's corruption wasn't due to being a gray force user, it was because he was being mind-fudged by WAAAAAY too many people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeneas_Falco Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Really full on light side you know that he decided not to investigate Darth Krayth further since he believed that the galaxy needs both light and dark. That is not full on light side. That is the EU, which is incidentally also now non canon. That is also tied to my complaint about much of the EU having been poor fanfic quality. A lot of the authors couldn't keep the portrayal of film characters consistent. Canon Luke is full on light side. The only dark side act he commits is raging out at Vader in RotJ, and he then pulls back and spares him. It was the ultimate test and he passed it. "You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." It's why the Emperor then shifts from trying to convert him to trying to destroy him. RotJ should have been the final word on Luke's force alignment. Sadly some hacks who wrote for the EU didn't pay attention to the films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) That is the EU, which is incidentally also now non canon. That is also tied to my complaint about much of the EU having been poor fanfic quality. A lot of the authors couldn't keep the portrayal of film characters consistent. Canon Luke is full on light side. The only dark side act he commits is raging out at Vader in RotJ, and he then pulls back and spares him. It was the ultimate test and he passed it. "You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." It's why the Emperor then shifts from trying to convert him to trying to destroy him. RotJ should have been the final word on Luke's force alignment. Sadly some hacks who wrote for the EU didn't pay attention to the films. They wrote what they wanted the problem that the ones who should have stopped them and limit their creative ******** where always high and did not give a ****. Every fictional universe suffers from this they have quality control people who really do nothing. Why can't I land such a job, life is so unfair. Edited February 3, 2016 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadsterPwns Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Revan's corruption wasn't due to being a gray force user, it was because he was being mind-fudged by WAAAAAY too many people. The extent to which Revan was tortured definitely affected him but his attempt at being a gray Force user undoubtedly played a part in his ultimate fracture. The reason his two halves separated at the end of The Foundry was because of his too sides' wishes, his Light Side wanting to pass on but his Dark Side (which summarily took over his body) wanted nothing more than vengeance against the Sith Emperor. TL;DR You're right but him being a gray Force user definitely played a roll in his fall/split as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSamH Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 The lore kind of goes all over with the source and power levels of force users but my personal interpretation was always emotion = strength. In Sith it's rage/ hate, in Jedi it's ...balance? willpower? Since Valkorion trained the Knights to use the force as a tool (for Justice) I would assume they see it just as another weapon and so they don't really strengthen their emotional connection to it. This would make them weaker force users (in my mind). As other posters have suggested, they probably compensate with advanced technology and superior numbers. Plus they attacked after a lengthy war had left both sides seriously depleted. On the Gray Jedi subject, I think the Knights of Z are kinda interesting in that Valkorion probably suppressed knowledge of Dark Side/ Light Side so (to me) it's less that their neutral and more that they don't know what their doing. Since the entire society has no idea Light Side/ Dark Side exists no one would notice if A Knight of Z fell to the Dark Side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 To Those Saying EU Butchered Luke Skywalker,TFA And The New Canon Are Butchering Star Wars Even Worse Than The Crystal Star Did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazeTomahawk Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 To Those Saying EU Butchered Luke Skywalker,TFA And The New Canon Are Butchering Star Wars Even Worse Than The Crystal Star Did. OMG! Do you thing Valkorian could be....WARU?!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Not really. He was turned, redeemed and then went a bit insane 300 years later, including a highly un-Jedi like plan for genocide of everyone bearing Sith genetics and fell to the Dark Side again, which resulted in the ultimate form of split personality, in which his good side was separated from his body and left only the dark aspect of Revan, which lead us to the SoR expansion. Ultimately, nobody can walk a between Light and Dark and emerge triumphant. Nobody. Indeed, Rewvan may have THOUGHT he found a miiddle Path but he's yet another case of "everyone whom as tired has fallen to the dark side" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The extent to which Revan was tortured definitely affected him but his attempt at being a gray Force user undoubtedly played a part in his ultimate fracture. The reason his two halves separated at the end of The Foundry was because of his too sides' wishes, his Light Side wanting to pass on but his Dark Side (which summarily took over his body) wanted nothing more than vengeance against the Sith Emperor. TL;DR You're right but him being a gray Force user definitely played a roll in his fall/split as well. two sides or one side, his last act as a "mortal man" was attempted genocide that's evil no matter how you slice it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 The lore kind of goes all over with the source and power levels of force users but my personal interpretation was always emotion = strength. In Sith it's rage/ hate, in Jedi it's ...balance? willpower? Since Valkorion trained the Knights to use the force as a tool (for Justice) I would assume they see it just as another weapon and so they don't really strengthen their emotional connection to it. This would make them weaker force users (in my mind). As other posters have suggested, they probably compensate with advanced technology and superior numbers. Plus they attacked after a lengthy war had left both sides seriously depleted. On the Gray Jedi subject, I think the Knights of Z are kinda interesting in that Valkorion probably suppressed knowledge of Dark Side/ Light Side so (to me) it's less that their neutral and more that they don't know what their doing. Since the entire society has no idea Light Side/ Dark Side exists no one would notice if A Knight of Z fell to the Dark Side. A lot of them already use the darkside, the others just don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 OMG! Do you thing Valkorian could be....WARU?!!? No...Kephess Is Arcann,Which Is Valkorion's Son,Arcann Is The Acenstor Of Jar Jar,Jar Jar Was The Father Of Supreme Leader Snoke,Snoke Is Gollum's Brother And Kylo Ren Is Continuing The Emo Tradition In His Bloodline...And Luke Is Actually The Joker And Episode VIII Will Start With Him Saying"This Will Be Fun"With A Very Evil Smile,And The Actual Villain Of Everything,The Greatest Villain Of Star Wars Is Actually...The Cantina BAND!Think About It,Who Survived Through The Ages To Play The Same Music In Every Cantina Ever?THOSE GUYS!Coincidence....I Think Not!Ok Sarcasms Aside I Saw A Theory That The Alien From ANother Universe Might Actually Be A Thing Left Of The Infinite Empire,How Would You GUys See His Existance If We Could Somehow Fit Him With Infinite Empire?Or Would You Rather Wipe Him Away Of Existance?I Would Really Like To Know People Who Have Read The EU's Thoughts About This"Theory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faliketh Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 two sides or one side, his last act as a "mortal man" was attempted genocide that's evil no matter how you slice it You'd be right. If that hadn't been the cause of the Sith Empire existing in the first place. The Republic, the good guys. And the Jedi. Attempted genocide against the Sith after the great hyperspace war. And that's why vitiate was able to gain control and build his Empire on Dromund Kaas. Even the good guys can try to kill people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 You'd be right. If that hadn't been the cause of the Sith Empire existing in the first place. The Republic, the good guys. And the Jedi. Attempted genocide against the Sith after the great hyperspace war. And that's why vitiate was able to gain control and build his Empire on Dromund Kaas. Even the good guys can try to kill people. ok first of all, the destruction of the sith people has always been vague, some sources suggest strongly the sith mostly killed themselves. and that the destruction of the rest wasn't done by the jedi. (honestly the sith race and it's fate is vbague because the writing for them was typical of KJA's useal sloppy work) secondly just because the republic and jedi have done something like that before, doesn't mean suddenly it's ok. genocide is genocide and it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 i consider neutral force users, light side force users..simply not fallen to the dark side..about zakul knights, i dislike all the ethernal idea, so i'm biased to think that they are only a random mob put to hype on the armor set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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