Switch Advanced Classes

[Wallner]

Just because you were warned that it's a permanent choice doesn't mean it's good that it is a permanent choice.

 

How would leaving the choice of class (AC) as PERMANENT hurt the game?

 

It limits the ways you can play your character.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Wallner

[Ratajack]

Just because you were warned that it's a permanent choice doesn't mean it's good that it is a permanent choice.

 

 

 

It limits the ways you can play your character.

 

So you do not COMPLETE AND TOTAL FREEDOM and are a little limited in how you play your character--big, freaking deal.

 

I'm not aware of ANY game that has COMPLETE freedom on how characters are played.

 

"Yes, I know that I CONFIRMED that I KNEW my choice of class (AC) was PERMANENT, but now I want a do-over. It's terribly unfair of BW to not give me a do over and limit the way I play my character. BW is a bunch of BIG, BAD MEANIES and everyone who agrees with them is a GRUMPY, OLD MAN."

 

 

 

There is nothing wrong with some limits on the way you play your character.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ratajack

[JasmineMoldovia]

[quote=Ratajack;8764183

I'm not aware of ANY game that has COMPLETE freedom on how characters are played.

 

EVE online, Perpentum, to a large extent final fantasy XIV,

 

The Repopulation, if they can ever get over their issues.

[PorsaLindahl]

So you do not COMPLETE AND TOTAL FREEDOM and are a little limited in how you play your character--big, freaking deal.

 

I'm not aware of ANY game that has COMPLETE freedom on how characters are played.

.

 

Well, there is at least one game out there that let's you play any, and all, humanoid classes (to include crafting) on 1 humanoid character - Istaria (Formerly Horizons). The only drawback is that you could be level 10 in one class but have a combat rating of 150, meaning you have to fight multiple level 120+ mobs to get decent xp. I may have to revisit it soon. They're updating their gaming engine and I miss my dragons sometimes.

Edited January 24, 2016 by PorsaLindahl

[Wallner]

So you do not COMPLETE AND TOTAL FREEDOM and are a little limited in how you play your character--big, freaking deal.

 

I'm not aware of ANY game that has COMPLETE freedom on how characters are played.

 

"Yes, I know that I CONFIRMED that I KNEW my choice of class (AC) was PERMANENT, but now I want a do-over. It's terribly unfair of BW to not give me a do over and limit the way I play my character. BW is a bunch of BIG, BAD MEANIES and everyone who agrees with them is a GRUMPY, OLD MAN."

 

There is nothing wrong with some limits on the way you play your character.

 

Well adding more freedom to how you play wouldn't hurt would it?

 

I still don't know why you think this would be bad to implement. The only point you seem to be arguing is that we shouldn't ask for changes in the game, because that would make us crybabies.

 

I'm not bashing EA/BioWare. I just suggest a change.

[Ratajack]

Well adding more freedom to how you play wouldn't hurt would it?

 

I still don't know why you think this would be bad to implement. The only point you seem to be arguing is that we shouldn't ask for changes in the game, because that would make us crybabies.

 

I'm not bashing EA/BioWare. I just suggest a change.

 

There is such a thing as too much freedom, believe it or not.

 

In this case, I believe that allowing class (AC) changes is one of those situations.

 

You might actually have to <GASP> live with the consequences of a PERMANENT CHOICE that you made? Oh, the horror of it all.

 

"Yes, BW I know I made a PERMANENT choice when I chose to be a mercenary, but mercenaries were OP then. Now you've nerfed mercenaries and powertechs are OP, and now I want to be an OP powetech. Why won't you let me do that?"

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ratajack

[Wallner]

There is such a thing as too much freedom, believe it or not.

 

In this case, I believe that allowing class (AC) changes is one of those situations.

 

You might actually have to <GASP> live with the consequences of a PERMANENT CHOICE that you made? Oh, the horror of it all.

 

Ah ok I see.

 

Then I get your point. But I don't agree. I would say switching classes entirely (from a Jedi to a Trooper for example) would be too much.

 

But if we look at the Jedi Knight for example, I don't think switching between wielding one lightsaber and being more defensive, to wielding two lightsabers and being more offensive is that much of a change. I see it basically the same as changing specialization.

[Ratajack]

Ah ok I see.

 

Then I get your point. But I don't agree. I would say switching classes entirely (from a Jedi to a Trooper for example) would be too much.

 

But if we look at the Jedi Knight for example, I don't think switching between wielding one lightsaber and being more defensive, to wielding two lightsabers and being more offensive is that much of a change. I see it basically the same as changing specialization.

 

The devs have said that AC's are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and are treated as FULL CLASSES and you want to try to claim that changing AC is only changing spec?

 

Changing spec? Really?

 

Going from a medium armor wearing, dual wielding DPS, to a heavy armor wearing, single saber wielding tank/DPS is simply changing spec?

 

Going from a stealthy, melee, double light saber wielding tank/DPS to a single light saber wielding, ranged heals/DPS is simply changing spec?

 

Going from a stealthy, melee DPS/heals to a ranged DPS turret is simply changing spec?

 

I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.

 

A wise man once said something to the effect of "people will believe a lie either because they are afraid it is true, or they WANT it to be true."

 

I think your perceptions are colored by your desires. I think you see only what you want to see (what will support your desire to change your class) and blind yourself to the truth.

 

I think many people would like to believe (and want us to blindly believe, as well) that changing class (AC) is no more than changing spec.

[Wallner]

I wouldn't go as far calling them different classes. I see them as the same class, but with some different abilities, which means they fight a bit differently.

 

But still, I don't see the problem with being able to switch AC.

[Ratajack]

I wouldn't go as far calling them different classes. I see them as the same class, but with some different abilities, which means they fight a bit differently.

 

But still, I don't see the problem with being able to switch AC.

 

Still refusing to admit that they are different classes, even though the devs have stated that they are FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS and that they are treated as FULL CLASSES? I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that spec changing is widely accepted in MMO's, where changing class is not.

 

Like I said, at best, I think you are allowing your desires to color your perception and blind you to the truth. At worst, you are being outright dishonest.

 

You're even willing to go so far as to say the devs are wrong when it is their game and their rules.

[Wallner]

Most people don't see them as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS.

 

The truth is that a lot of people want to be able to switch AC, and I wouldn't have any problem with that. I don't really see your problem with it either to be honest.

 

So EA/BioWare, if you can make it happen, I'm all for it.

 

Peace out

Edited January 24, 2016 by Wallner

[Ratajack]

Most people don't see them as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS.

 

The truth is that a lot of people want to be able to switch AC, and I wouldn't have any problem with that. I don't really see your problem with it either to be honest.

 

So EA/BioWare, if you can make it happen, I'm all for it.

 

Peace out

 

Again, at best, you allow your desires to color your perception.

 

You have NO way of knowing what most people think. Even if you were going to claim that you personally polled everyone about this, I never received a poll. IMO, you make the claim that "most people" agree with you and believe the devs are wrong about their own game for no reason other than you think it makes your deception look better.

 

The TRUTH is that we have dev statements indicating, for all practical purposes, that the AC's are DIFFERENT CLASSES and that there were 8 stories (as opposed to 16) for cost reasons. The TRUTH is that the devs have never said the AC's were simply "different specs" of the same class.

 

All you need to do to see evidence of this is to look at your guild roster.

 

How many characters over level 10 do you see with their class listed as smuggler or imperial agent? How many characters above level 10 do you see with their class listed as bounty hunter or trooper?

 

Now, how many characters above level 10 do you see with their class listed as gunslinger, scoundrel, operative or sniper? How many characters above level 10 do you see with their class listed as mercenary, powertech, vanguard or commando?

[TX_Angel]

You might actually have to <GASP> live with the consequences of a PERMANENT CHOICE that you made? Oh, the horror of it all.

 

It is a game, there is nothing permanent about it... everything can be reversed and changed at the drop of a hat, at Bioware's choosing... Unlike the real world, nothing in the game itself is actually limited other than their own choices.

 

At some point, the servers will be turned off and none of it will matter...

[TX_Angel]

Well.

 

How would them adding the option to choose another AC hurt the game?

 

I don't see how being able to switch your characters combat technique is a negative thing.

 

With your whole "Choices matter"-logic, a player shouldn't be able to switch specializations either. I mean, if you chose to play Healer, that's it. Choices matter

 

It wouldn't hurt it... It is just grumpy people living in the past who want to hurt other people's fun, that's all. All reasons to not allow AC changed died with 4.0...

 

As for the "choice's matter" comment made by the poster above you, that is a sick joke... either they get the joke and don't care, or they are trolling. There is no other reasonable answer.

[TX_Angel]

Most people don't see them as FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS DESIGNS.

 

The truth is that a lot of people want to be able to switch AC, and I wouldn't have any problem with that. I don't really see your problem with it either to be honest.

 

So EA/BioWare, if you can make it happen, I'm all for it.

 

Peace out

 

He is trolling at this point, there is no other reasonable answer... just ignore him, and hopefully Bioware listens to reason and allows AC changes at some point. Or perhaps they'll go all the way in 5.0 and allow all ACs to be all roles. That would double solve the issue.

[Mordresh]

But if we look at the Jedi Knight for example, I don't think switching between wielding one lightsaber and being more defensive, to wielding two lightsabers and being more offensive is that much of a change.

 

I agree with this and would like to add that it happens in all the time in Star Wars. Malgus switches to dual-wielding on a whim in one of the trailers, Anakin does it in Attack of the Clones. Palpatine uses two sabers in the Clone Wars and one in Revenge of the Sith.

[PorsaLindahl]

"My sniper wants to melee." So she forgets how to use a sniper rifle, but can now fight with an invisible dagger and must carry around a useless carbine.

 

"My operative wants to shoot stuffs." She's never touched a sniper rifle in her career. She has trained to fight hand-to-hand. Now she can pick up a sniper rifle and start blasting people from 35m. But can't remember how to fight hand-to-hand.

 

Makes loads of sense. They should implement it immediately. Let's let all cab drivers be airline pilots. Let's let all dentists perform brain surgery.

[Mordresh]

So she forgets how to use a sniper rifle, but can now fight with an invisible dagger and must carry around a useless carbine.

 

Just because she changes her weapon doesn't mean she forgot how to use the old one. Luke didn't forget how to use a blaster the minute he picked up a lightsaber. Same thing would apply here, you would be able to go back and switch to your old advanced class if you want.

[PorsaLindahl]

Just because she changes her weapon doesn't mean she forgot how to use the old one. Luke didn't forget how to use a blaster the minute he picked up a lightsaber. Same thing would apply here, you would be able to go back and switch to your old advanced class if you want.

 

Did Luke become a master of that lightsaber the minute he picked it up?

 

Here's a thought. If you want to change your AC, your character gets reset back to level 10 and you have to level up in that AC to learn it. I'll go for that.

[Fevee]

If you don't like the rules of the game, then find another game that has rules you do like.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

The rules of the game also used to indicate that companions only had one battle role, there were no such things as player housing or guild-shared bank tabs, and that your appearance/species was set in stone.

 

Is there a thread where you call for the recinding of those features? Because they weren't in the original design, as well, I'll bet you hate those features where they dared to alter Ratajack's gaming experience.

 

Yea, I believe TX_Angel's comment that someone's paying you to just be so negative.

[Fevee]

Oh, by the way Ratajack, someone out there has a thread to make the cursor larger. That's not in the original design; that wasn't original dev intention, plus it'll take effort to implement. It might even be game-breaking if they do so.

 

Why don't you go vehemently oppose that idea, as well?

[Mordresh]

Did Luke become a master of that lightsaber the minute he picked it up?

 

I'm not opposed to there being a questline or price to master your new specialization to cover the sudden change. That would be quite neat in fact.

[Fevee]

"My sniper wants to melee." So she forgets how to use a sniper rifle, but can now fight with an invisible dagger and must carry around a useless carbine.

 

"My operative wants to shoot stuffs." She's never touched a sniper rifle in her career. She has trained to fight hand-to-hand. Now she can pick up a sniper rifle and start blasting people from 35m. But can't remember how to fight hand-to-hand.

 

Makes loads of sense. They should implement it immediately. Let's let all cab drivers be airline pilots. Let's let all dentists perform brain surgery.

 

You know, that's really a moot point, as we can change species on a mere whim. This isn't a movie where we need storyline and cinematic reason for such a change occurring. It's an MMO where we pay for everything worth having/doing, so just let us pay and get it over with. It does affect you, one way or the other.

[TX_Angel]

Did Luke become a master of that lightsaber the minute he picked it up?

 

Here's a thought. If you want to change your AC, your character gets reset back to level 10 and you have to level up in that AC to learn it. I'll go for that.

 

That would make sense, pre-4.0...

 

Post 4.0, not really. Maybe level 60, but even that misses the point. You aren't switching from using a blaster to using a saber, now are you?

[ekwalizer]

OP, I understand your request. As someone with multiples of every AC, let me give you some advice. If you are getting tired of your current AC, play an AC that is the exact opposite. Playing a Force Tank? Switch to a Tech Healer. Playing a Tech DPS? Switch to a Force Tank. Playing a Force Healer? Switch to a Tech DPS.

 

I find that if I rotate between sabers and blasters I stay happy in the game longer than when I go for long periods on my "main main".

 

Changing from PT to Merc isn't going to breathe new life into your experience. You are getting bored, that's all. Variety is the spice of life. Doing something different is already at your fingertips.

 

How do you know that you will even like the other AC? What happens if you don't like it? Oh, change back? This is where I have an issue with AC respec. FotMs are bad enough without AC respec.

 

I thought we were getting back to "choices matter"? I mean, I was told that the thousands of dollars I pumped into this game was going to that redesign.

 

Would they make tonnes of money from it? Maybe, I don't know. Neither do you.

 

Abandoning the current toon? No, sorry that doesn't fit. Do you have to delete the toon? No. So you still have that toon and can play that toon whenever you want. We have 40 character slots per server folks. This isn't the launch days of 8 per server. I have 32 level 61-65 toons on JC. Some I hardly play at all. While I do have one "main" I have 3 other "semi-mains".

 

You are confusing your story with your class. Your advanced class is your class. Bounty Hunter is a story. Mercenary is a class. A lot of this confusion would have been negated (and still can be) by forcing AC selection at level 1.

 

Design intent has changed since 2011? Oh great, let's make this a sandbox then.

 

Only have an hour to play, every other day? You'll still be max level inside a month.

 

What in the world happened to cause you to be such a grumpy bum about this?

The fact that we have had to oppose it for three years in the other thread and no amount of "negatives" are ever taken seriously? Forget the fact that in three years not one single, solitary member of the staff has even weighed in on that thread - which is never more than a page or two off the front page. No answer, in three years, is THE answer.

 

But I can be reasonable. You are correct 4.0 has negated many negative. But here is one that the 60-token cannot negate. We only have 40 slots. Allowing AC respec essentially allows for unlimited "toons" to FotM hop with.

 

I understand the unobtainable items argument. And I sympathize with it. But there is virtually nothing left from the 1.x days that became unobtainable which isn't now available on the CM. With the right paint you are pretty much set. Oh, what's that? A Mount? Seriously? You want dev time devoted to a feature so you can continue to use a specific mount?

 

I understand the achievements argument, to a degree; that was rendered moot with legacy datacrons. To my knowledge all of the "required" achievements are still displayed via your legacy.

Edited January 26, 2016 by ekwalizer