Juggernauts OP? No. Heres why: A guide to defeat juggernauts

[Qwurdilu]

(Just for the record, where you actually expecting self heals to cover for 50% of just any damage that gets thrown at you? If a whole group would spank you for 750k, then you'd be healing yourself for 375k?! Is that it?! Who are you? A world raid boss?)

 

Now that i proofed you wrong and showed that there is a significant difference between selfeal and mitigation, you try to this into ridiculous.

All i was saying is that juggs defs are not viable for endgame pvp, read as teamranked in current meta. At this point i dont know why im even arguing because its not an opinion, its a fact. I`d say go play teamranked and see yourself, but based on the social skills you show in the forum ill doubt you find 3 people who enjoiy spending time with you.

 

immortal jugg, which btw is the most resilient tank in game?!

You better stop talking about things you have no clue about, because it makes you look ridiculous.

jugg tank resilent...haha...had a good laugh

Edited January 14, 2016 by Qwurdilu

[Cretinus]

Now that i proofed you wrong and showed that there is a significant difference between selfeal and mitigation, you try to this into ridiculous.

All i was saying is that juggs defs are not viable for endgame pvp, read as teamranked in current meta. At this point i dont know why im even arguing because its not an opinion, its a fact. I`d say go play teamranked and see yourself, but based on the social skills you show in the forum ill doubt you find 3 people who enjoiy spending time with you.

 

 

You better stop talking about things you have no clue about, because it makes you look ridiculous.

jugg tank resilent...haha...had a good laugh

 

I deleted that part, it was to harsh.

 

You didn't prove anyone or anything wrong. The only thing that you've proved is that you're bad at playing an immortal jugg. That's all.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Cretinus

[Qwurdilu]

I deleted that part, it was to harsh.

 

You didn't prove anyone or anything wrong. The only thing that you've proved is that you're bad at playing an immortal jugg. That's all.

 

Screenshots of wins with immortal jugg in grp ranked then, please.

[Iseko]

Thats obviously pugs or rock bottom ranked. Any decent team will destroy immortal juggs 100:0. Game shouldnt be balanced around bads imho.

 

I am truly interested why you think so.

 

However your statements seems odd since it does not relate to anything I said.

 

I gave a quick breakdown of how an immortal juggy can be played and your reply basically is the equivalent of saying:

 

You are wrong because of... Chairs.

 

The veritable aresenal of defensive cooldowns, cc and team dmg reduction skills means... Nothing?

 

The fact that a juggy can keep his team alive whilst still pushing out respectable dmg is only good against pugs because... Bads are bad?

 

This is starting to feel like a troll post. All you are saying is: to kill juggernauts: bring a lot of people and it is easy. Well no **** sherlock.

 

To kill a mara I dont need a lot of people. My immortal juggy alone is enough. And in group play a juggy is also good because of all the group skills it has.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Iseko

[-Healius-]

I'd only say ap and concealment beats them, though they're close.

 

Erm Ruffian? they can 1v1 nearly most classes if left alone but thats never the case in warzones, A juggs weakness is DoT damage but because nobody plays that class much it goes unnoticed.

[Qwurdilu]

I agree i should have gone more into detail. You need to know that the three different tanks rely on different stats. Jugg is defense tank, assa is shield, powertech is absorb. The problem in pvp is that defense works a lot worse against players than pve bosses.

So without using any cooldowns, jugg will take a lot more damage than powertech or assasin.

 

Now lets take a look at cooldowns with meta in mind, answers in red:

 

I dont fully agree either.

 

A juggy immortal with proper utilities:

2 defensive dmg mitigation cooldowns. One is rather good.

They are okay, but in current meta is pressure, not hardswitch. Less damage reduction but longer durations cooldowns are favored.

Enraged defense (should be the first thing you pop as it has the lowest cooldown)

As invincible its only something against burst but lackluster against constant damge taken

Assuming a minimum of 80k base hp, with endure becomes 100+k hp. Followed by medpack = 35+k heal.

Its a onetime per fight only, its rather irrelvant.

Reflect: if you see ranged burst lining up, pop it. Returned dmg is capped but burst is negated.

Guard damage cannot be reflected, so this is useless. The only class viable for tanktunnel is sorc and he barely cares about reflect.

A long with the fact that they can guard friendlies, taunt like mad. Got 2 hard stuns, 1 aoe soft stun and push.

The other tank also have lots of CC and tools.

Plus:42% base dmg reduction from HA + soresu

 

Overal dps is about 1.5k with a nice burst possibility and a 10-12k aoe dmg attack (10-12k per person in one hit).

Biggest problem: its all white damage (minus forcescream and smash) and will thus A LOT less effective than powertechs or assasins dmg. jugg has a lot more misses and no internal/elemental dmg.

How in the hell is that considered bad? I play a sentinel also and why I must say the sentinel is great for hunting down healers and generally doing insane dmg. Their survivability is nowhere near that of an immortal jug.

Immortal jugg as dps is not a valid option. Its dmage is way to low to get a kill in teamranked.

 

A sorc healer with an immortal dps juggy, marauder and a AP PT is a viable combo imo.

No its not. Because enemy powertech tank will completely annihilate juggtank. Its because most damage dealt by powertechtank is elemental, bypassing juggs mitigation. In addition, juggs damage is mostly melee which, unlike powertechs, will in addition be mitigated by tankstats miss a LOT, especially during oil slick.

Assuming equal skill level, powertechtank annihilates juggtank.

 

The sorc heals obv. The juggy tanks, cc's and adds to dps. The mara and pt nuke the enemies.

 

For above reasons, this wont work. In current meta jugg is just too squishy

[aristrokratie]

I agree i should have gone more into detail. You need to know that the three different tanks rely on different stats. Jugg is defense tank, assa is shield, powertech is absorb. The problem in pvp is that defense works a lot worse against players than pve bosses.

So without using any cooldowns, jugg will take a lot more damage than powertech or assasin.

 

Now lets take a look at cooldowns with meta in mind, answers in red:

 

 

 

For above reasons, this wont work. In current meta jugg is just too squishy

Their defs are strangely designed. They grant them invincibility for a short period of time (secs or so) but after that they're dead.

 

Because of this their survival is ridiculous in regs because people wob't keep tunneling someone there but in ranked arenas they are dead really quickly. Self heals are something no melee class should have in a great manner, juggs need more damage reduction cds and their healingntuned down.

[Qwurdilu]

Their defs are strangely designed. They grant them invincibility for a short period of time (secs or so) but after that they're dead..

 

I´d say this design is ok, it just doesnt fit current meta. For jugg to work you`d need an DD who has a higher priority, something like sorc. Unfortunately, such combos are not viable offensive wise because sorcheal. You need a powertech for them.

[Jaggannath]

Their defs are strangely designed. They grant them invincibility for a short period of time (secs or so) but after that they're dead.

 

Because of this their survival is ridiculous in regs because people wob't keep tunneling someone there but in ranked arenas they are dead really quickly. Self heals are something no melee class should have in a great manner, juggs need more damage reduction cds and their healingntuned down.

 

Their self-healing is roughly 1.6% of max health per sec in a PvP environment.

 

If that is a problem for any player, that player needs to uninstall the game.

 

Jugg/Guardian self-healing is a non-issue. The issue with them is:

 

1- Lack of high penalty for "skank tanking" with dps setup.

 

2- Proper tanking stats don't "matter" in a pvp environment.

 

Both add up to a situation where you have people going dps jugg primarily if they want to succeed, resulting in the situation you see now.

 

There needs to be a an actual survivability penalty for picking dps gear setups over tank. And tank gear needs to matter.

 

Blanket nerfs like you are suggesting will do nothing but cripple the spec and encourage retarded buffs in the future which serve no purpose other than upsetting pvp balance further.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jaggannath

[aristrokratie]

Their self-healing is roughly 1.6% of max health per sec in a PvP environment.

 

If that is a problem for any player, that player needs to uninstall the game.

 

Jugg/Guardian self-healing is a non-issue. The issue with them is:

 

1- Lack of high penalty for "skank tanking" with dps setup.

 

2- Proper tanking stats don't "matter" in a pvp environment.

 

Both add up to a situation where you have people going dps jugg primarily if they want to succeed, resulting in the situation you see now.

 

There needs to be a an actual survivability penalty for picking dps gear setups over tank. And tank gear needs to matter.

 

Blanket nerfs like you are suggesting will do nothing but cripple the spec and encourage retarded buffs in the future which serve no purpose other than upsetting pvp balance further.

 

Def stats need to be of higher importance and dps stats should be reduced further by soresu form and the base damage increased. This way ''real'' tanks wouldn't change but dpsequipment wouldn't be that good to wear anymore as tank stats are what makes you tanky, not the actual spec itself via passive dmr buffs.

[Jaggannath]

Def stats need to be of higher importance and dps stats should be reduced further by soresu form and the base damage increased. This way ''real'' tanks wouldn't change but dpsequipment wouldn't be that good to wear anymore as tank stats are what makes you tanky, not the actual spec itself via passive dmr buffs.

 

I kind of feel like "real" tanks need to change too and be buffed via better tanking stats (their survival, not their damage) in order to ensure that less and less people do this retarded 'skank tank' thing. But yes defensive stats need to matter for this issue to be resolved.

[aristrokratie]

I kind of feel like "real" tanks need to change too and be buffed via better tanking stats (their survival, not their damage) in order to ensure that less and less people do this retarded 'skank tank' thing. But yes defensive stats need to matter for this issue to be resolved.

 

Yeah, tanks are not ''tanky'' anymore. I have noticed the trend of dotsorc tanktunnelcomps which are extremely effective because tanks die more quickly these days than they should. On the flipside of the coin there's 3-4k dps pt tanks and spank tanks ****...

 

They need to drastically decrease the damage-coefficients (best way to do this is by altering tank-stance), rise the base values so that properly geared tanks hit for more than lethality operatives' dots (they need nerf!).

They need to increase the effectiveness of tank-stats and make crits not automatically go through shield (so a hit can crit AND be shielded at the same time).

[Jaggannath]

Yeah, tanks are not ''tanky'' anymore. I have noticed the trend of dotsorc tanktunnelcomps which are extremely effective because tanks die more quickly these days than they should. On the flipside of the coin there's 3-4k dps pt tanks and spank tanks ****...

 

They need to drastically decrease the damage-coefficients (best way to do this is by altering tank-stance), rise the base values so that properly geared tanks hit for more than lethality operatives' dots (they need nerf!).

They need to increase the effectiveness of tank-stats and make crits not automatically go through shield (so a hit can crit AND be shielded at the same time).

 

They really need to do this before the influx of players they received for december get into 65 pvp.