AndorianTJ Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) I really like the KOTFE story, but in the grand scheme of SW Lore, it makes me scrach my head. The Empire seeks to conquer worlds within the galaxy, and the Republic seeks allies, how did either one not stumble accross the EE? Did the EE hide it's technology so well that it was ignored? That would be like cold war USA and USSR ignoring some empire on the planet with vastly superior technology to their own. Maybe the EE is like SPECTRE in James Bond, it gets the two sides to duke it out, then takes over. Is the EE's technology so advaced to include cloaking and phase shifting technology? If so, the EE vs Republic/Empire would be like a modern missile warship going against a WWI battleship. Cloaking/phasing technology wasn't even available 1000s of years later in the Movie universe. It just seems like the EE comes out of nowhere, would be like the real world passing off North Korea as a joke, only to find out it really does posses some vastly advanced technolgy that enslaves us all. It has kind of a Dr Evil feel to it ya know? Cheers TJ Edited January 11, 2016 by AndorianTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 I really like the KOTFE story, but in the grand scheme of SW Lore, it makes me scrach my head. The Empire seeks to conquer worlds within the galaxy, and the Republic seeks allies, how did either one not stumble accross the EE? Did the EE hide it's technology so well that it was ignored? That would be like cold war USA and USSR ignoring some empire on the planet with vastly superior technology to their own. Maybe the EE is like SPECTRE in James Bond, it gets the two sides to duke it out, then takes over. Is the EE's technology so advaced to include cloaking and phase shifting technology? If so, the EE vs Republic/Empire would be like a modern missile warship going against a WWI battleship. Cloaking/phasing technology wasn't even available 1000s of years later in the Movie universe. It just seems like the EE comes out of nowhere, would be like the real world passing off North Korea as a joke, only to find out it really does posses some vastly advanced technolgy that enslaves us all. It has kind of a Dr Evil feel to it ya know? Cheers TJ The Republic havent explored the whole galaxy, and right now they have their hands full with the Empire. This about the beginning: [After Revan's failed attempt to kill the Emperor with The Exile and Scourge] Around this time, the Emperor decided that he was tired of the galaxy as it existed, and of the limits that Sith teachings and his empire placed upon him. Resolving to free himself of such restraints,[35] Vitiate heard rumors of an ancient and unstoppable fleet of warships operated by sentient droids that had nearly wiped out all of Wild Space.[36] A powerful ship known as the Gravestone purportedly stopped the entire "Eternal Fleet" at a backwater planet called Zakuul,[37] and so Vitiate chose Zakuul as the world upon which he would build a new empire—a truly Eternal Empire.[36] Vitiate took on a Human male body as a new Voice that went by the name "Valkorion," though he split his mind and energy between the Valkorion body and the numerous Voices that oversaw the Sith Empire's march to war.[38] Zakuul's native Humans were a superstitious and nihilistic people who worshipped the ruthless Old Gods, and so "Valkorion" claimed to be the Demon Savior of Zakuulan prophecy—an immortal god of gods who would topple Izax the Ultimate Devourer and the rest of the Old Gods, and thus usher in a new age.[39] Uniting the nomadic tribes of Zakuul, Valkorion declared himself the Immortal Emperor of a new Eternal Empire,[40] and established a city amid the swamps as he accelerated the Zakuulans' technological advancement. However, the city was not grand enough for Valkorion, and his rapidly-growing civilization became based in the Spire, a golden metropolis that sprawled outwards from atop the Old World, as the first city became known.[41] He repurposed the three tribal leadership roles—Matriarch, Champion, and High Shaman—into the Knights of Zakuul, an order of Force-users that were considered protectors of the people and were fanatical in their devotion to their Immortal Emperor.[40] A subgroup of the Knights, the Scions of Zakuul, specialized in seeing the future and were obsessed with the idea of fate.[42] Valkorion used this to his advantage, using the Scions' Force visions to find the location of the dormant fleet.[36] To control the fleet, he gathered Zakuul's greatest minds and set them to work building the Eternal Throne: a throne in the starscraper that topped the Spire whose technology gave the Immortal Emperor control over[43] the GEMINI units that operated the fleet.[36] The throne took generations to complete, finishing around two centuries after the Jedi Civil War,[43] but for some reason Valkorion kept the Eternal Fleet within the Unknown Regions for the centuries that followed.[44] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 hiding in the unknown regions. it's a trope in Star Wars by now.Where were the Sith Empire prior to when they invaded the Republic? Hiding in the Unknown regions. Where was the Eternal Empire? hiding in the unknown regions. Where did the First order build up their military might? by hiding in the unknown regions. Seriously, bad guys hiding in the unknown regions is pretty much "New Super weapon" trope scale for SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndorianTJ Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) It has been done in history, using the WWII example again, Germany quietly built up a huge military force when they were supposedly forbidden to do so after WWI. The Manhattan Project was kept secret, despite thousands of people working on it. I suppose with the vastness of space, it could be done. It does highlight a flaw in Sith 'short term gain' mentality, no matter how strong you try to be by conquering and dominating others, in a huge universe that we live, there will always be a stronger power that can and will dominate you.. There is always a bigger fish in the sea. That kind of brings up another question for the Sith. Are they pawns of Vitiate? If killing and conflict feeds Vitiate, then why keep feeding him? Why continute to engage in the behaviors that make him stronger? Do they have a choice or are they 'programmed' that way? Cheers TJ Edited January 12, 2016 by AndorianTJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Well you figure Ewoks were first discovered in episode 6, which was was 4 years after the battle of Yavin. This game takes place 3,642 years before the battle of Yavin. That means that in over 3646 years not everything has been mapped out yet, despite their space traveling capabilities. You can say well that's like looking for a needle in a haystack to find something that specific, but c'mon over 3,500 years of space travel, by countless space faring species, and not one found them. (I'm not counting Treek cause that was potentially the dumbest money grab ever, or canon for that matter) What I do have a problem with is that Zakuul is so far ahead of not only the Republic, and the Empire, but even the Hutt Cartel in terms of technology. That's not to say that the Hutt Cartel are the pinnacle of technology by any stretch of the imagination, but let's face it the whole Makeb quest line was about the Hutt's discovering something amazing to help them get an edge over the Republic and the Empire, and both those factions wanted it. Yea I suppose the Isotope 5 ships were fast enough to out run the Zakuul ships, but that was pretty much it. Furthermore technological advances come a lot faster in a time of war, and the Empire and Republic were building super weapon, after super weapon, but it's like none of those mattered, or were completely forgotten about. Both sides had spies stealing technologies back and forth, and improving upon them, (essentially sharing them with out sharing) and out of no where this empire comes along and is like lulz you just barely discovered fire, here let us show you how it's done. Like ***? Who writes this garbage? What was even better is the Grave Stone, I just kind of gave up on any good story telling after that. It's like people stop putting any thought in and are like hey it makes perfect sense if you don't think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) You miss the fact that 3000+ sears is more than enough to forget something. There were hundreds of nations in Europe before 1000 A.D., yet if I listed them you wouldnt know any. In CW series, they are surprised about the Talz as a nation and species, while they are allies of the Republic in SWTOR. But there's no problem here. Three millennia is more than enough to forget a known world completely if contact is not maintained. Btw I believe Endor is a known world in SWTOR. And an even better example: Satele rediscovered Tython, the HOMEWORLD of the Jedi. Yet it was forgotten for a while. It happens. Edited January 13, 2016 by jauvtus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (I'm not counting Treek cause that was potentially the dumbest money grab ever, or canon for that matter) Treek, while a money grab, does exist in SWTOR, just like HK-51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Terrible MMORPG writing. I can justify it like many posters above have done heroically, but it comes down to bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 You miss the fact that 3000+ sears is more than enough to forget something. There were hundreds of nations in Europe before 1000 A.D., yet if I listed them you wouldnt know any. In CW series, they are surprised about the Talz as a nation and species, while they are allies of the Republic in SWTOR. But there's no problem here. Three millennia is more than enough to forget a known world completely if contact is not maintained. Btw I believe Endor is a known world in SWTOR. And an even better example: Satele rediscovered Tython, the HOMEWORLD of the Jedi. Yet it was forgotten for a while. It happens. The thing is it's a lot harder for a highly technologically advanced civilization to loose records than it is for a civilization who may or may not have books, and even if they do if that civilization was wiped out or mostly wiped out due to war, disease, famine, their language could be forgotten, and thus their knowledge lost. The republic was a civilization of a thousand, thousand planets in other words a million planets. Who shared stuff among themselves. The event that all these civilizations lost all known knowledge of a world, and it's species is really kind of slim when you get right down to it. The fact that Satele rediscovered Typhon, or the Talz, or the Chiss existed in this timeline but later remained unknown doesn't prove anything other than sloppy writing on Bioware's part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Acording to Star Wars lore the Republic entered a dark age where not even holo communication could be used and it was reduced to the core worlds well most of them. So for hundreds of years they where isolated from the rest of galaxy unable to communicate with most of what it had in the past. They just forgot most of the history being strangely preserved by the sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrax Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Isn't there some sort of hyperspace disturbance that separates the unknown regions from the rest of the Galaxy? If there isn't, it is not too hard to imagine there being places in the galaxy that haven't been explored. How many stars are in the SW Galaxy? How many worlds does the Republic and the Empire control? I find it hard to imagine that hundreds of billions of stars have been explored and charted AND that information been spread across the galaxy to most known worlds. The loss of information is quite easily understood, especially if that information is only held on a few planets or with a single inter-planetary government. On our own world we have known instances of things being lost and forgotten just in the past 80-90 years. Check out some of the WW2 ship building knowledge that is no longer available or some of the Soviet era Russian computer programming information. We are all familiar with the idea that the winner writes history so that right there is a massive reason why things are forgotten and lost, not to mention accidents and natural disasters. The Sith are quite jealous of sharing power and they are shown to hoard knowledge especially. The Jedi as well guard many secrets for various reason too. That is only two factions out of a galaxy's worth of them. There are plenty of people and organizations that would benefit by keeping the discovery of hyperspace lanes into the Unknown Regions secret. If the people/organizations/creatures, etc. in these unexplored areas are hostile or secretive then there are even more ways that the knowledge of them would be rare/lost/forgotten. Now, having typed all that, it does feel abit ham-fisted the way we suddenly have a never before seen or heard of empire pop up to continue the story. I personally find the idea that the Vitiate going from a crazed emotionally dead demi-god to falling in love to be stranger than the unknown regions being occupied by powerful and technologically advanced empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isnogut Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I really like the KOTFE story, but in the grand scheme of SW Lore, it makes me scrach my head. The Empire seeks to conquer worlds within the galaxy, and the Republic seeks allies, how did either one not stumble accross the EE? Did the EE hide it's technology so well that it was ignored? That would be like cold war USA and USSR ignoring some empire on the planet with vastly superior technology to their own. Maybe the EE is like SPECTRE in James Bond, it gets the two sides to duke it out, then takes over. Is the EE's technology so advaced to include cloaking and phase shifting technology? If so, the EE vs Republic/Empire would be like a modern missile warship going against a WWI battleship. Cloaking/phasing technology wasn't even available 1000s of years later in the Movie universe. It just seems like the EE comes out of nowhere, would be like the real world passing off North Korea as a joke, only to find out it really does posses some vastly advanced technolgy that enslaves us all. It has kind of a Dr Evil feel to it ya know? Cheers TJKeep in mind, that the Republic didn't even realised for 1000 years until 30 years ago that right bevor theyr doorstep the newly assembled Sith empire grew. I'm not saying those are blind, but that the Galaxy is a vast place! If the EE did hinder any intrusions and informations to the outside, there would be no knoledge of them in the rest of the galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setta Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Acording to Star Wars lore the Republic entered a dark age where not even holo communication could be used and it was reduced to the core worlds well most of them. So for hundreds of years they where isolated from the rest of galaxy unable to communicate with most of what it had in the past. They just forgot most of the history being strangely preserved by the sith. Never heard of this, what time frame is this in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Never heard of this, what time frame is this in? new sith wars, from 2000 BBY-1000 BBY, you catch the tail end of it in the first darth bane book, but the best look at the situation is SW Knight Errant. particularly the setting info they made avaliable in issue 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) The New Sith Wars were one of the most interesting and least explored pieces of EU lore. If it hadn't all been decanonized it could have eventually been a good setting for a new Kotor type of game, with fresh characters and unique story opportunities . Edited January 15, 2016 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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