Epitaph

[GalacticKegger]

• Game/Gameplay was not fun or did not meet expectations
  
• The story and missions are not enjoyable
  
• Provide more details
  

 

Knights of the Fallen Empire destroyed the SWTOR MMO my wife and I had endeared ourselves to for 20+ hours a week since beta.

 

Group voice acted quest dialogue interactions ... where all characters in the party were visible to each other in real time ... where voice acted facial expressions and body language contributed to mood ... which gave dialogues an immersive life that we all took with us as color commentary while we helped each other progress through stories ... is gone in this expansion.

 

And Alliance's "Classic Conversation" format is not voice acted. It is voiced over where we hear our character's voice but spend the entire dialogue staring at the back of their head all by ourselves. It killed end game for us.

 

Companion combat gear progression was removed entirely. They are now Ken and Barbie dress up dolls, and the ones we "raised" as sidekicks for 4 years were made unavailable for play once our characters engage the expansion.

 

When we weren't doing Ops & PvP with Unrepentant, my wife and I were purist altoholics. We logged in to engage level-appropriate progression through planets and heroics. We logged in to work through level-appropriate FPs between planets as rites of passage and gear checks. We logged in to work through level-appropriate HMs as a stepping stone to end game. We logged in to level our characters through the game ... not watch the game level with our characters. We logged in to fine tune both our characters and their specialized companions as we progressed. These are all what made SWTOR "our game."

 

Our game is now gone. 4.0 removed level-appropriate in its entirety, and replaced it with a pathetic one-size-fits-all combination of level sync, solo modes and tacticals. KotFE butchered everything but early game's class story, and we can play that for free.

 

When companion combat gear specialization returns to stay; when group fully voice-acted quest dialog interaction & story returns to stay; when level-appropriate progression for planets, heroics, flashpoints and HMs returns to stay; then me, my wife and our $5,500 in CM purchases will return to stay.

 

You should have released Fallen Empire as a separate single-player KOTOR III and left our SWTOR MMO alone.

Edited December 26, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[LordSodos]

I agree with you. I started to play this game in Beta too, and I always enjoyed the great details and so on.

 

The game what it is now, is nothing compared to the game it was. It also is about the people. In the first years mainly Star Wars freaks, today mainly casual players.

[ALaggyGrunt]

The devs care.

 

Management... doesn't.

[LordSodos]

Indeed. The devs want to implement the most awesome stuff, but the management holds them back. With such a good and large team, I could release one warzone with unique levels and pitfalls every WEEK, not stopping progress on bigger expansions, letting own Beta testers test the current alpha of the release for bugs....

BUT NO!!! It's EA!!!

BioWare is just another name for EA.

 

Alone for showing my ideas for a Conclave Basement I built a whole landscape, textures and a whole rough base. It took me two hours. (Pictures in the thread)

[Kuronan]

I think you need to take a step back and consider whether your nostalgia is blinding you to what are some pretty heavy flaws that were addressed... let's start with some of the big ones:

 

First, I think I'm going to address Companions. Now, I have my own complaints about the system they implemented (mainly that whoever decided '50 Influence is Cap, Affection converts 1:1 ratio' (10 influence) should go suck a Cactus (seriously, screw them. 25 would have been enough if they just increased the impact Presence had)) but making gear aesthetic was a smart decision. A big problem (if you forgot) during 12x Storyline EXP was that gearing was horrendous, for the Player and the Companion. During the time, a lot of people had trouble keeping companions up-to-par with content and, at end-game, gear had a negligible impact anyway and fitting companion gear into quest rewards was clunky at best. No one wanted to do side-quests because they offered next to nothing experience and credit-wise (and believe me, there are people out there who cannot sink 20 hours a week into a game and were justifiably wanting to use 12x storyline EXP to, oh, I dunno, ACTUALLY HIT CAP?) Companions were reworked to make soloing content easier because, let's face it, you aren't running around with a 4-man party all the time and most players don't even have a friend with them, so Companions are important to solo play (in fact, if you dismiss them, you'll quickly find the entire game is designed around working with a companion or a party. You can go Completely Solo, but it's beyond sub-optimal.) Streamlining how they work in solo-play is a good thing. Oh, and don't go on about 'Optimization' because I still have the Devoted Allies gear from the Shadows of Revan Weekly for Talos. Trust me, you couldn't optimize jack on them, they wore whatever you gave them (which was exclusively Power and Crit, except for Tanks which was Shield Rating and Shield Absorption)

 

Facial Expressions have only improved over time, or do you pay literally zero attention to Koth's face? Camera Angles and lighting have also dramatically improved from when the game had launched.

 

Classic Conversations are a refreshing addition to a game where we otherwise have three buttons that either A) translate to the exact same thing, or B) end up being completely meaningless in their decisions. Sure, we have Light Side/Dark Side stuff but most of the time it's impact is negligible. Hey, do you remember that guy you killed/spared on Alderaan? Neither do we! Didn't do that Voss/Sith Ritual to prevent yourself from going mad in the Nightmare Lands? No, it's cool, really! Classic Conversations at least give us more freedom to ask about something or choose how to speak to others. Plus... Not all of us enjoy our Voice Actors. I made a Jedi Sage for a roleplaying muse, but I hate the Consular Voice Actor (just doesn't fit what I imagine my character's tone would be, at all.) Classic Conversations give me a break from a voice actor I don't like in my case and I'm glad to be given a stroll down memory lane (having played the original KOTOR and also DA:O)

 

Re-introducing about 40 Companions isn't going to happen overnight you know, we went in Stasis for five years. that's a long time, long enough for the entire politics of the Galaxy to have shifted drastically. And 'Customization' ? on Companions? Aside from Rank 50 Influence being a load of crap (because that'll seriously take weeks to grind out in gifts and this completely undermines having Legendary Status and having unlocked Humans for +100 Presence) I prefer the new system because leveling with companions was always a chore. Seriously, you can barely even enjoy Light-Side Agent because your two Default tanks are A) Kaliyo (who you have to put up with all the way until Alderaan) and B) SCORPIO, both of whom are Dark Side primarily. I'm glad I don't have to gear them to be able to solo and I'm more glad I can use Companions I actually like with the same efficiency as Old Treek (whom literally became your Go-To Companion when you unlocked her as she literally outclasses all non-DPS companions in both tanking and healing at the same freaking time)

 

I'm sorry you consider Altoholicism the reason you play the game because while it is fun to play the game through every class, it is not fun to have to keep making alts any time you find an online friend you want to play with. Having to create a new Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Trooper gets boring after you've done this planet about twenty times. Forget about Key-bindings, changing settings to make yourself comfortable, reclaiming items from your Collections, deciding your character quirks if you aren't going to just Light Side/Dark Side Cheese... I'm glad because now, if I want to play with a friend, I can just throw my Sage or Sniper at them, rush them through the starting planets and then actually play the game with them while not having to create a new character to do so.

I will agree with you on Flashpoints though, but more because they can be indirectly Spoiler-ridden for low-level players.

 

I have a few problems with this Expansion (Mainly their new Slogan 'Free for Subscribers' not actually being Free in any sense of the word) All the things you find atrocious I consider an appropriate step forward. Maybe when you take off the Nostalgia Goggles you might pick up on why these are improvements.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Kuronan

[XiamaraSimi]

I think you need to take a step back and consider whether your nostalgia is blinding you to what are some pretty heavy flaws that were addressed... let's start with some of the big ones:

 

<snip>

 

Maybe when you take off the Nostalgia Goggles you might pick up on why these are improvements.

 

Very well said, even if i am impatient to find out where Quinn and Vector dissapeared to!

[GalacticKegger]

I think you need to take a step back and consider whether your nostalgia is blinding you to what are some pretty heavy flaws that were addressed... let's start with some of the big ones:

 

First, I think I'm going to address Companions. Now, I have my own complaints about the system they implemented (mainly that whoever decided '50 Influence is Cap, Affection converts 1:1 ratio' (10 influence) should go suck a Cactus (seriously, screw them. 25 would have been enough if they just increased the impact Presence had)) but making gear aesthetic was a smart decision. A big problem (if you forgot) during 12x Storyline EXP was that gearing was horrendous, for the Player and the Companion. During the time, a lot of people had trouble keeping companions up-to-par with content and, at end-game, gear had a negligible impact anyway and fitting companion gear into quest rewards was clunky at best. No one wanted to do side-quests because they offered next to nothing experience and credit-wise (and believe me, there are people out there who cannot sink 20 hours a week into a game and were justifiably wanting to use 12x storyline EXP to, oh, I dunno, ACTUALLY HIT CAP?) Companions were reworked to make soloing content easier because, let's face it, you aren't running around with a 4-man party all the time and most players don't even have a friend with them, so Companions are important to solo play (in fact, if you dismiss them, you'll quickly find the entire game is designed around working with a companion or a party. You can go Completely Solo, but it's beyond sub-optimal.) Streamlining how they work in solo-play is a good thing. Oh, and don't go on about 'Optimization' because I still have the Devoted Allies gear from the Shadows of Revan Weekly for Talos. Trust me, you couldn't optimize jack on them, they wore whatever you gave them (which was exclusively Power and Crit, except for Tanks which was Shield Rating and Shield Absorption).

I agree about 12x. During 12x keeping companions geared was a challenge. Point 1: there are players who actually enjoyed that challenge. Point 2: 12x is gone, having lasted but six months. As much as I LOVE the visual customization tab for companions, that's all that's left of our companion customization. Growing up I never got into playing with Barbie dolls. Though I do find your "most players don't even have a friend with them" commentary rather sad.

 

Facial Expressions have only improved over time, or do you pay literally zero attention to Koth's face? Camera Angles and lighting have also dramatically improved from when the game had launched.

 

Classic Conversations are a refreshing addition to a game where we otherwise have three buttons that either A) translate to the exact same thing, or B) end up being completely meaningless in their decisions. Sure, we have Light Side/Dark Side stuff but most of the time it's impact is negligible. Hey, do you remember that guy you killed/spared on Alderaan? Neither do we! Didn't do that Voss/Sith Ritual to prevent yourself from going mad in the Nightmare Lands? No, it's cool, really! Classic Conversations at least give us more freedom to ask about something or choose how to speak to others. Plus... Not all of us enjoy our Voice Actors. I made a Jedi Sage for a roleplaying muse, but I hate the Consular Voice Actor (just doesn't fit what I imagine my character's tone would be, at all.) Classic Conversations give me a break from a voice actor I don't like in my case and I'm glad to be given a stroll down memory lane (having played the original KOTOR and also DA:O)

I'm talking about our character's and party character's expressions & body language during the conversations ... not the NPCs. They could have replaced the wheel with the enhanced choice letterbox and continued with the voice acted (not voiced over) dialogue interaction. I too have KOTOR and Sith Lords. If I want KOTOR and Sith Lords I'll play those. They are better single player RPGs anyway.

 

Re-introducing about 40 Companions isn't going to happen overnight you know, we went in Stasis for five years. that's a long time, long enough for the entire politics of the Galaxy to have shifted drastically. And 'Customization' ? on Companions? Aside from Rank 50 Influence being a load of crap (because that'll seriously take weeks to grind out in gifts and this completely undermines having Legendary Status and having unlocked Humans for +100 Presence) I prefer the new system because leveling with companions was always a chore. Seriously, you can barely even enjoy Light-Side Agent because your two Default tanks are A) Kaliyo (who you have to put up with all the way until Alderaan) and B) SCORPIO, both of whom are Dark Side primarily. I'm glad I don't have to gear them to be able to solo and I'm more glad I can use Companions I actually like with the same efficiency as Old Treek (whom literally became your Go-To Companion when you unlocked her as she literally outclasses all non-DPS companions in both tanking and healing at the same freaking time)

I have no interest in seeing our companion stables increased by 40, or 20 ... or even 10. And I had no problem adapting a character to specific companion roles and vice versa. My wife and I had a companion for each side of the trinity for each of our characters and we traded off based on our builds, our companion's builds and often the boss encounters. The only classes that were limited to what they could do with their companions were the Warrior/Knight because they don't have a heal spec, and Smuggler/Agent because they don't have a tank spec. Otherwise that was 44 base companion options between the 8 classes that could be fine tuned however we wanted. Trust ME ... about the only difference between min/maxing our characters and min/maxing our companions (other than skill tree/discipline balancing) was the companion's inability to equip relics. Many of my companions' gear sets were even augmented. Now we just pick a wallflower, click a pull down menu to select one of three default companion trinity options and faceroll. It's pathetic imho.

 

I'm sorry you consider Altoholicism the reason you play the game because while it is fun to play the game through every class, it is not fun to have to keep making alts any time you find an online friend you want to play with. Having to create a new Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, Trooper gets boring after you've done this planet about twenty times. Forget about Key-bindings, changing settings to make yourself comfortable, reclaiming items from your Collections, deciding your character quirks if you aren't going to just Light Side/Dark Side Cheese... I'm glad because now, if I want to play with a friend, I can just throw my Sage or Sniper at them, rush them through the starting planets and then actually play the game with them while not having to create a new character to do so.

 

I will agree with you on Flashpoints though, but more because they can be indirectly Spoiler-ridden for low-level players.

True, alts were a large part of me and my wife's favorite gameplay style. But we both also have myriad HM and Ops achievement portraits and trophies plastering our stronghold walls. So it's not like we didn't play the rest of the game. Level appropriate early game was a huge reason why we looked forward to logging in. Having the game level with us instead of allowing us to level up through the game is, well ... lazy. And that's the problem. Other than Ops the game has become lazy - and even Ops couldn't escape bolster.

 

I have a few problems with this Expansion (Mainly their new Slogan 'Free for Subscribers' not actually being Free in any sense of the word) All the things you find atrocious I consider an appropriate step forward. Maybe when you take off the Nostalgia Goggles you might pick up on why these are improvements.

Ah yes ... another "*insert insult here* glasses" ... "deal with it" response. // shakes head // I am genuinely glad for the players who consider this total makeover to be an improvement to the game. And I appreciate you listing your reasons why the changes were good for you. Just understand that for plenty of others 4.0's changes had just the opposite effect - a reality that is just as valid and deserves just as much respect & consideration as yours.

 

It's a different game so I should simply find another game to play. I get it. In fact my wife and I both get it. Which is why we cancelled our subscriptions. I could have been an ***hole and posted this in General Discussion instead of here in the Suggestion Box for a dev to (hopefully) read. But I didn't because I get it.

Edited December 31, 2015 by GalacticKegger