KotFE: What's Left

[CommanderTNT]

Add to this the fact that the last story is written with only 2 classes in mind - JK\SW (because do not tell me you truly find it fitting for the Emperor to tell a smuggler "you are the only one in all my millennia who got my attention and who like me changing galaxy" and to be killed by a smuggler) - and the list will be complete.

Do not mind it that much - I have enough JKs to play with and enough imagination to cover the plot-holes for other force-users, but as OP said for other classes it does look sad.

I would actually argue that the only class the story fully supports is the Jedi Knight. I found it incredibly hard to play my own character, and felt i had to break character to remain in character. Yes you read that right, now let me explain. Throughout my Sith Warrior story, i played an indomitable ****** in a Vader-esque fashion who treated all his opponents like jokes and spent his time bringing the empire to power at any cost. Seeking to one day dominate the galaxy. However i compiled a list of grievances as to why this character can't exist in KOTFE.

 

Number one... The empire is defeated, meaning you're no longer taken seriously. How can you be the "Empire's wrath" seeking to conquer everything, if you no longer have an empire, and have been conquered yourself? At best you can get your space conqueror motif back by taking the Eternal Throne. Too bad you have to form A REBEL ALLIANCE, which is the antithesis of what makes you an IMPERIAL PLAYER just to get your motif back.

 

Number two... dark side options FORCE you to be something along the lines of Starscream, never allowing you to be truly wicked. If you choose the darkside options and submit to the emperor, then your character comes across as incredibly weak. You rely on another characters power to defeat a whiny brat, who even the story acknowledges as weak. Meaning if you wish to preserve your "I'm the biggest ****** in the universe status", then your obligated to pick the "light side" option(I DON'T EVEN). However you're then treated with a lightsaber to the gut by a character that could only qualify as an imperial back scratcher at best(There can be ONLY ONE plot armored mary sue in the story)!

 

Number three... The Sith warrior story at times took the direct approach from you, but its not nearly as bad as KOTFE. Twice you have the opportunity to put one of the brats in there place stolen from you by cutscenes. This disconnect from story and gameplay is really annoying. The story can't EVER let a SW confront a character without them dying then and there. The Sith warrior's story previously avoided this before with things like Lord Draahg, as you defeated him twice and dismiss him as a joke. You were NEVER asked to run or flee from anything, as that is not befitting of the class! You're supposed to be the biggest or one of the biggest villains in the galaxy, meaning only a HERO should be able to stand in your way... or the betrayal of your entire alliance as they realize your worse than the villain they're fighting. Once again however the game is stealing your characterization, and forcing you to be the hero.

 

So in conclusion, some elements and scenes may seem very fitting for the Sith Warrior... however the story as a whole betrays EVERYTHING that role stands for! As the Outlander is much more along the lines of Luke than Vader.

Edited December 15, 2015 by CommanderTNT

[Calinaph]

I would actually argue that the only class the story fully supports is the Jedi Knight. I found it incredibly hard to play my own character, and felt i had to break character to remain in character. Yes you read that right, now let me explain. Throughout my Sith Warrior story, i played an indomitable ****** in a Vader-esque fashion who treated all his opponents like jokes and spent his time bringing the empire to power at any cost. Seeking to one day dominate the galaxy. However i compiled a list of grievances as to why this character can't exist in KOTFE.

 

Number one... The empire is defeated, meaning you're no longer taken seriously. How can you be the "Empire's wrath" seeking to conquer everything, if you no longer have an empire, and have been conquered yourself? At best you can get your space conqueror motif back by taking the Eternal Throne. Too bad you have to form A REBEL ALLIANCE, which is the antithesis of what makes you an IMPERIAL PLAYER just to get your motif back.

 

Number two... dark side options FORCE you to be something along the lines of Starscream, never allowing you to be truly wicked. If you choose the darkside options and submit to the emperor, then your character comes across as incredibly weak. You rely on another characters power to defeat a whiny brat, who even the story acknowledges as weak. Meaning if you wish to preserve your "I'm the biggest ****** in the universe status", then your obligated to pick the "light side" option(I DON'T EVEN). However you're then treated with a lightsaber to the gut by a character that could only qualify as an imperial back scratcher at best(There can be ONLY ONE plot armored mary sue in the story)!

 

Number three... The Sith warrior story at times took the direct approach from you, but its not nearly as bad as KOTFE. Twice you have the opportunity to put one of the brats in there place stolen from you by cutscenes. This disconnect from story and gameplay is really annoying. The story can't EVER let a SW confront a character without them dying then and there. The Sith warrior's story previously avoided this before with things like Lord Draahg, as you defeated him twice and dismiss him as a joke. You were NEVER asked to run or flee from anything, as that is not befitting of the class! You're supposed to be the biggest or one of the biggest villains in the galaxy, meaning only a HERO should be able to stand in your way... or the betrayal of your entire alliance as they realize your worse than the villain they're fighting. Once again however the game is stealing your characterization, and forcing you to be the hero.

 

So in conclusion, some elements and scenes may seem very fitting for the Sith Warrior... however the story as a whole betrays EVERYTHING that role stands for! As the Outlander is much more along the lines of Luke than Vader.

 

I totally agree and it's part of the reason I'm having trouble playing through the SW. If I keep to the "Emperor's Wrath / Empire's Wrath" the way that he's been for 65 levels, I find myself thinking: "Why would anyone volunteer to stay with this dude?"

 

and

 

"Why is the (former) Wrath content to sit on some back water planet and not head back home, take **** over and then go from there?"

 

Almost nothing about it fits for a Dark V Sith Warrior.

 

Honestly, the only thing I can think of that even remotely makes it work is to do a redemption-type arch for him to make him at least semi personable to the 50 people he now has in his cell phone...

 

and don't even get me started on the Sith Inquisitor!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Calinaph

[Calinaph]

BTW: I'm enjoying the entire thread.

 

Not to derail it, but... you know... to totally derail it...

 

I think there have been some very interesting points brought up about why to some of us some of the class stories- with the amount of information we presently have- make little to no sense.

 

Regardless of that, here's some things I absolutely would love to see happen:

 

They make a pretty big deal about Lana's injury if you reject Valkorian's power- you see her in the cut scene seeming to struggle with the Force Lightning- I'd like there to be a point in time in an upcoming chapter where what would appear to be a fairly routine block during a fight that Lana should be able to make, she fails to make due to a lingering injury and she dies.

 

Though redundant, I think it would be interesting if the same thing happens when you reject Valkorian's power and Arkan runs you through- it would be interesting to see a scenario when you are unable to do something to save a companion due to the injury and the companion dies.

 

I'd really like for influence to mean something beyond crafting and combat power- I'd like to see some form of "loyalty" system like Mass Effect 2 had- at certain points, if your influence isn't high enough, companions either leave, turn on you or both. Same thing with the Alliance influence. The Alliance influence could be something akin to the Normandy upgrades from ME2 as well- if influence isn't at least "x" something that a faction of the alliance should be able to handle goes horribly wrong.

 

On a side note, I was really pissed off that when confronting Heskal, if you do decide to accept Valkorian's help, you still have to fight him the 2nd time. It (once again) made it feel like the choice didn't matter, so, I really hope something epic happens later to warrant accepting vs not accepting his power, because, so far, it hasn't mattered at all.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Calinaph

[CommanderTNT]

But guys, we're the chosen one!! You know, no one else in the entire galaxy could take on the Dread Masters, or Tavus, or old Rakata things, or Revan. We're the only ones. We should feel special....

 

Wait you don't want your version of Solo, Fett, Vader, Sidious, etc. to be arbitrarily forced into Luke Skywalker's role? I mean clearly the only logical character progression for a merciless bounty hunter who only wants credits, is to become a rebel leader against an oppressive empire... for charity /s. Its not like you were already working for an oppressive empire set on conquering the galaxy, solely on the basis they paid you /s. Wait at minute... why can't i jump ship for the eternal empire again? I feel like you could have been hired by Arcann to be the fall guy, and joined him. The only real motivation you have is revenge... which doesn't pay!

[Calinaph]

Wait you don't want your version of Solo, Fett, Vader, Sidious, etc. to be arbitrarily forced into Luke Skywalker's role? I mean clearly the only logical character progression for a merciless bounty hunter who only wants credits, is to become a rebel leader against an oppressive empire... for charity /s. Its not like you were already working for an oppressive empire set on conquering the galaxy, solely on the basis they paid you /s. Wait at minute... why can't i jump ship for the eternal empire again? I feel like you could have been hired by Arcann to be the fall guy, and joined him. The only real motivation you have is revenge... which doesn't pay!

 

Yeah- that's pretty much been my issue w/ the Bounty Hunter since the end of her class story (also why she's still level 50). "Tell me again why I care about Makeb? Or Oricon? Or Rishi? Or Yavin?"

 

Hell, even the droid is surprised when Shae Vizla shows up to fight Revan!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Calinaph

[Krenzikai]

The fact that he gave up his Empire(s), seems to have abandoned his plan for consuming life in the galaxy, and even let himself give up his physical life all for sharing the mental space of the Smuggler communicates to me that he really does have an obsession with said Smuggler.

 

I mean.... what could he possibly *need* the Smuggler specifically for that he couldn't accomplish with all his seemingly infinite power in the force, and military and political might? And what goal is worth giving all of that up in order to achieve?

 

Ultimately I'm fairly forgiving with bad writing in video games since the player generally is in all the action, but this was something that bugged the hell out of me, too when I took my gunslinger through the first nine chapters. The dialogue makes sense for the jedi knight and the sith warrior. Beyond that it can for the Consular and Inquisitor since their stories involve either far reaching influence or the harnessing of dark energies with arcane rituals, in addition to demonstration of significant mastery of the force.

 

The only non-force user in the same ballpark could maybe be the imperial agent, since that class had to end

an illuminati-like conspiracy that had it's fingers on the strings of infighting between sith as well as other classes storylines based on the dialogue

. Even the supersoldier Trooper wouldn't have that direct effect on the emperor himself. The smuggler? No way. If anything the latter two classes, along with the bounty hunter were vessels of convenience after

Marr refused to kneel and left Valkorian no choice but to kill him.

. A subtle variation in dialogue to reflect either a bitter irony or amusement at being stuck with a soldier, hired gun, or smuggler who just seemed to be the lynch pin in a series of significant events throughout the game's stories would have worked much better for those classes. His metaphysical adoration really only works for the force users. The agent, as mentioned because of the spoilers blacked out above would probably generate something in the middle of this spectrum. Either way, Valkorian flat out needed a body to continue whatever his grand plan is. This has to be acknowledged by him or pointed out in his actions in some fashion down the line. Otherwise he just could have fled like he did from Ziost and bide his time.

 

Even if its a lie..... its a lie so ridiculous that our PC's should not buy it at all.... and the fact that he just casually mentions that all of his actions have been focused around our PC's for centuries before they were even born, with little further explanation or questioning by our PC's communicates to me that Bioware, and everyone in the world that they created, thinks it is a perfectly plausible idea.

 

They'd never admit it, but like writers for television shows that end up horribly written, those who penned the scripts in the end work within the confines they are allowed. While I have fun with the story it's engaging, but obviously hamfisted-- as many of Bioware's great single player storydriven rpg's were in the past to varying degrees.

 

 

Well.... as I've said, it isn't case closed. I'm riding this story out to its conclusion, and I'm not going to make any final judgements until there's something final to judge.

 

This^^^ But wait! You've seen the forums everybody that wanted the game to revolve around hardcore raiding is the backbone of this game, and if you disagree with them or their forum advocates who are the royalty of this game you are deficating in the faces of people like Dulfy, etc. who took the time to write the guides and run the fan sites all the forum leetpros are using!!!!!!! Game deaddeaddead! Noraidsdead!

Edited December 15, 2015 by Krenzikai

[trueKieran]

I would argue that the storyline doesn't even make sense for the Jedi Knight, however that requires massive spoilers for the Jedi Knight class quests so.... spoiler alert!

 

 

 

So as a reminder early on in the story you get Kira as a companion, who turns out to be a (former/almost) child of the emperor and who's even briefly taken over by him. I'd like to point out at this moment that this was the end of act one, while the Jedi Knight gets taken over at the end of act two, so if no one did it before, Kira was actually the first to break free from his control, not the Jedi Knight.

 

We then get to meet Lord Scourge at the end of act two, who wanted to kill the emperor before, but betrayed this companions Revan and the Exile, because he saw in a vision how the emperor was taken down, and it wasn't either of them, so he switched sides to bide his time for another 300 years to join the real "savior", the Jedi Knight.

 

He makes it very clear that he is and never will be anything but a Sith and only joins you to see the emperor being killed and only stays after act 3 to confirm that he's gone for good. Given all that happens and all that is said in conversations, the way I see it, if there were only 4 people who wanted the emperor dead, those would be the Jedi Knight, Kira, Lord Scourge and Revan. Yes that's right, as pissed as Marr was, he wouldn't even make it on the list and ouf ot these 4, Revan is really the only one with an excuse for not showing up on account of being dead, yet neither Kira nor Lord Scourge are anywhere in sight.

 

All of this is taken to an entirely new level of ludicrousness if the Jedi Knight you played is actually male and married to Kira, because not only would it make little sense at this point for anyone else to rescue him than a team up of her and Scourge, but T7 is actually in on the mission! Now if that little droid is even half the loyal companion that he's shown to be, it shouldn't have taken him long to calculate that if I had had the chance to give him one last order, it would have been "protect my wife!", yet apparently he doesn't even know where she is!

 

Edited December 15, 2015 by trueKieran

[Cedia]

Okay, this is a bit of a necro, but it is an awesome thread!

 

I decided to make the oldest ancestor of my legacy yesterday, and since Andronikos won't jive with her lightsided self, I'm probably going to have her romance Theron.

 

So, through the wonders of time twistedness and head canon, this would make all of my characters descendants of Revan. (And Kallig, but let's ignore that right now.) I think that would definitely make Valkorian sit up and notice even the lowliest smuggler.

 

"But," you say, "MY characters aren't related to Revan."

 

Annnnd... how do you know that for sure? This could be something we were never told. Revan's family tree could have a lot of branches we don't know about.