So how strong was Revan really?

[DarthMetalJoey]

I'd say Revan is/was the second strongest character from our time period. He loses of course to Vitiate/Valkorion.

 

agreed

[ZanyaCross]

As you all know we fought him in 2 instances in SWTOR the first time with a strike team formed by BH, Wrath, Nox, IA and the second time with 7 very powerful people one of the heroes and well a great mandalorian fighter, the grandmaster of the jedi order, Darth Marr, a powerful sith lord, a powerful republic agent, a wookie.

so how strong is he can 2 force users and 2 non force users defeat him or 4 force users and 3 non force users can defeat him or 3 force users and 4 non force users can kill him?

 

So really how strong is he?

 

Keep in mind that by the time he's first beaten...

 

 

The Hunter has single-handedly taken out a Republic Capital ship, and the Jedi master on board. The Agent beat a member of the dark council (or at least was able to, depending on your choices), the Inquisitor has survived every attempt by... seemingly everything in the galaxy to do them in, and the Warrior has crushed the Jedi their own master failed to and turned his greatest weapon into their apprentice.

 

 

Any one of the player characters can eat regular Jedi and Sith Lords for breakfast (literally, if the Warrior isn't bluffing during that attempted spaceport heist), so if it takes all four of them to take one guy out, then that one guy is pretty impressive.

 

Also keep in mind that according to the end of SoR that you never really faced him at his full power...

 

 

...having only faced the part that split from his good half, which also explains why he thought total genocide was a reasonable approach to a problem.

 

 

So I'd say that Revan, at full strength, would be pretty damn strong.

[peter_plankskull]

Keep in mind that by the time he's first beaten...

 

 

The Hunter has single-handedly taken out a Republic Capital ship, and the Jedi master on board. The Agent beat a member of the dark council (or at least was able to, depending on your choices), the Inquisitor has survived every attempt by... seemingly everything in the galaxy to do them in, and the Warrior has crushed the Jedi their own master failed to and turned his greatest weapon into their apprentice.

 

 

Any one of the player characters can eat regular Jedi and Sith Lords for breakfast (literally, if the Warrior isn't bluffing during that attempted spaceport heist), so if it takes all four of them to take one guy out, then that one guy is pretty impressive.

[/i].

Him squaring off with 4 people is simply gameplay purposes for him to fit into a flashpoint boss. I can walk in with Jesus droid and mako and use them as backup to clear Revan, or pre 4.0 if I wanted to just walk in there by myself as a hunter. Also we don't know how badly of a struggle Revan gave us as there's no cutscene implying anything, just a speech and rather a poof and he's gone, so this means the 4 united, or 1, could of taken him down no problem.

 

 

Also keep in mind that according to the end of SoR that you never really faced him at his full power...

 

 

...having only faced the part that split from his good half, which also explains why he thought total genocide was a reasonable approach to a problem.

 

 

So I'd say that Revan, at full strength, would be pretty damn strong.

 

I think that was more of a resemblance of his conscious being split apart rather than him having half his power. Unless he loses all his knowledge about the force of the light side, then I still wouldn't qualify that as half his power gone, as he still has his tremendous power.

[DrFaroohk]

Lightsaber skill must be improved by training and experience no matter how strong you are in the force that will not increase your lightsaber skill.

Look at Vitiate his force powers are godlike but his lightsaber skills are not very good or good and he does not even likes using them.

Vaylin just fought in the wrong way she should have battled her mother in force powers not lightsaber duel.

 

This is something I disagree with. I always thought that one of the things you do with the force is amp your own abilities. That's how Yoda or Palpatine can fight with a saber despite being ancient and decrepit.

[Rhyltran]

This is something I disagree with. I always thought that one of the things you do with the force is amp your own abilities. That's how Yoda or Palpatine can fight with a saber despite being ancient and decrepit.

 

This is correct. Most Sith and Jedi even if they prefer to use force powers do use a lightsaber as well. Even if you're not a skilled duelist if you're powerful enough you can amplify your speed to run circles around your opponent? That's all you need. I mean, despite what people think the sorcerer and sage "class" does use a lightsaber and is skilled at it's use. The two characters are merely practicing Niman which is a lightsaber style designed with the idea of offensive force powers being used in conjunction with the lightsaber whereas the Lightsaber is mostly an aid. Realistically in game when a force user force leaps to your sorcerer each slice your character is avoiding and parrying while throwing out offensive attacks looking for an opening.

[adormitul]

This is correct. Most Sith and Jedi even if they prefer to use force powers do use a lightsaber as well. Even if you're not a skilled duelist if you're powerful enough you can amplify your speed to run circles around your opponent? That's all you need. I mean, despite what people think the sorcerer and sage "class" does use a lightsaber and is skilled at it's use. The two characters are merely practicing Niman which is a lightsaber style designed with the idea of offensive force powers being used in conjunction with the lightsaber whereas the Lightsaber is mostly an aid. Realistically in game when a force user force leaps to your sorcerer each slice your character is avoiding and parrying while throwing out offensive attacks looking for an opening.

 

But that crazy girl only fought using lightsaber combat I wanna think there is a cap on how much you can achieve without practice in lightsaber forms.

[Rhyltran]

But that crazy girl only fought using lightsaber combat I wanna think there is a cap on how much you can achieve without practice in lightsaber forms.

 

Force users are capable of enhancing their body using the force. Increasing their strength, speed, and agility. A fight with a lightsaber also tests not only your ability to use a lightsaber but your power as well. She also did try to use the force against her mother near the end of the duel. It didn't matter.

 

The problem was her mom was able to avoid the attacks and the objects thrown at her. Even using force display she wasn't skilled enough which is a big problem with Vaylin she has lack of experience and training.

 

As for not being trained? It depends. There's force users powerful enough to move so fast you can't see them. Obviously someone skilled enough to be able to keep up with a certain degree and have them completely outclassed skill wise would win but imagine for a moment you are an amazing lightsaber duelist. One of the best duelists you know. If the guy is able to move faster than you can see how much do those extreme skills help you? Probably not enough.

[adormitul]

Force users are capable of enhancing their body using the force. Increasing their strength, speed, and agility. A fight with a lightsaber also tests not only your ability to use a lightsaber but your power as well. She also did try to use the force against her mother near the end of the duel. It didn't matter.

 

The problem was her mom was able to avoid the attacks and the objects thrown at her. Even using force display she wasn't skilled enough which is a big problem with Vaylin she has lack of experience and training.

 

As for not being trained? It depends. There's force users powerful enough to move so fast you can't see them. Obviously someone skilled enough to be able to keep up with a certain degree and have them completely outclassed skill wise would win but imagine for a moment you are an amazing lightsaber duelist. One of the best duelists you know. If the guy is able to move faster than you can see how much do those extreme skills help you? Probably not enough.

 

Well yeah it can really be a issue unless you know where you will the hit will strike you are screwed.

[ZanyaCross]

Him squaring off with 4 people is simply gameplay purposes for him to fit into a flashpoint boss. I can walk in with Jesus droid and mako and use them as backup to clear Revan, or pre 4.0 if I wanted to just walk in there by myself as a hunter. Also we don't know how badly of a struggle Revan gave us as there's no cutscene implying anything, just a speech and rather a poof and he's gone, so this means the 4 united, or 1, could of taken him down no problem.

 

What you can do, and how the FP was intended to be done, are two very different things though. While this could describe every FP boss though, I'll give Revan the benefit of the doubt and say that after 300 years in the cooler he just needed a lot more time to stretch his legs out, which is why he's so much stronger in SoR.

[DrFaroohk]

Force users are capable of enhancing their body using the force.

 

 

This is also why I don't beleive there was any way in heck that Mace Windu stood any sort of chance against Palpatine. I don't care what any canon thing says. A force user with enough power to probably move planets around could augment his skills so much that nothing windu could do would be any match for him. If it was in a video game, it would be the equivalent of Sidious becoming level 80 while Windu is probably still lvl 50.

[adormitul]

This is also why I don't beleive there was any way in heck that Mace Windu stood any sort of chance against Palpatine. I don't care what any canon thing says. A force user with enough power to probably move planets around could augment his skills so much that nothing windu could do would be any match for him. If it was in a video game, it would be the equivalent of Sidious becoming level 80 while Windu is probably still lvl 50.

 

What are you saying if he was so great why could he not kill Vader before he was trown in the reactor? He should have made him ash but he could not.

Because his strongest skills require quite a lot focusing doing nothing else but focusing. Now about force enhancment you know what the problem is if the enemy can not perceive your speed how can you. Do anybody thought that when you enhance your speed that you are fast as sound you can give your body fast enough commands to react for example you wanna hit target x head you will hit target x head but you can not change the command after that you start the attack because you brain can not process and command the body fast enough to change direction or block or dodge.

What if the enemy know where you will hit because of precongnition what can you do?

[Rhyltran]

What are you saying if he was so great why could he not kill Vader before he was trown in the reactor? He should have made him ash but he could not.

Because his strongest skills require quite a lot focusing doing nothing else but focusing. Now about force enhancment you know what the problem is if the enemy can not perceive your speed how can you. Do anybody thought that when you enhance your speed that you are fast as sound you can give your body fast enough commands to react for example you wanna hit target x head you will hit target x head but you can not change the command after that you start the attack because you brain can not process and command the body fast enough to change direction or block or dodge.

What if the enemy know where you will hit because of precongnition what can you do?

 

Because Vader is extremely powerful with the force. He's someone who could lift up and crush a massive AT-AT and his very suit was built to be innately resistant to force lightning. It's not a sign of weakness that he wasn't able to kill Vader in time. It's actually a feat in the favor of Vader that he was able to tank Sidious lightning that well. There's a big difference.

[adormitul]

Because Vader is extremely powerful with the force. He's someone who could lift up and crush a massive AT-AT and his very suit was built to be innately resistant to force lightning. It's not a sign of weakness that he wasn't able to kill Vader in time. It's actually a feat in the favor of Vader that he was able to tank Sidious lightning that well. There's a big difference.

 

Is it true was not Vader's suit weak to lighting?

[Rhyltran]

Is it true was not Vader's suit weak to lighting?

 

Nope. Star Wars The Force unleashed (and there's a few other sources but this is the one on top of my mind) Vader, knowing he was going to fight Marek, who had very potent force lightning purposely upgraded his suit to be resistant to it.

 

The whole "His suit is weak to lightning and shorted him out which killed him" is a myth. In fact, even if it did do that, in both Disney and EU Canon even without the life support systems on his suit Vader can survive without them for days. What killed him was Sidious' lightning.

 

So yup. Sidious and Vader killed each other.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Rhyltran

[adormitul]

Nope. Star Wars The Force unleashed (and there's a few other sources but this is the one on top of my mind) Vader, knowing he was going to fight Marek, who had very potent force lightning purposely upgraded his suit to be resistant to it.

 

The whole "His suit is weak to lightning and shorted him out which killed him" is a myth. In fact, even if it did do that, in both Disney and EU Canon even without the life support systems on his suit Vader can survive without them for days. What killed him was Sidious' lightning.

 

So yup. Sidious and Vader killed each other.

 

Wait did Luke did not resist the same lighting minutes earlier with no suit?

[Rhyltran]

Wait did Luke did not resist the same lighting minutes earlier with no suit?

 

Yes and no. Luke tried resisting as much as he could but Sidious wasn't going all out on Luke. He was torturing him. When "daddy" grabs Sidious from behind he really amps up the bolts. This is confirmed in the novelization. Sidious wanted Luke to die slowly.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Rhyltran

[peter_plankskull]

What you can do, and how the FP was intended to be done, are two very different things though. While this could describe every FP boss though, I'll give Revan the benefit of the doubt and say that after 300 years in the cooler he just needed a lot more time to stretch his legs out, which is why he's so much stronger in SoR.

 

But solo mode is what the devs intended for me to do in that flashpoint now. Face it, Revan revolved around the plot, when he starred in his own game he became as strong as he needed to be for the story to unfold. Now that he is no longer starring, he becomes weak enough for the plot to twist in my main characters favor, in this case the bounty hunter.

 

I will NEVER understand why people compare video game characters to movie characters in combat abilities.

[ZanyaCross]

But solo mode is what the devs intended for me to do in that flashpoint now. Face it, Revan revolved around the plot, when he starred in his own game he became as strong as he needed to be for the story to unfold. Now that he is no longer starring, he becomes weak enough for the plot to twist in my main characters favor, in this case the bounty hunter.

 

I will NEVER understand why people compare video game characters to movie characters in combat abilities.

 

That wasn't the original intent, though, but I do agree that now solo mode greatly, and sadly, reduces the character in a way.

[Melaphont]

But solo mode is what the devs intended for me to do in that flashpoint now. Face it, Revan revolved around the plot, when he starred in his own game he became as strong as he needed to be for the story to unfold. Now that he is no longer starring, he becomes weak enough for the plot to twist in my main characters favor, in this case the bounty hunter.

 

I will NEVER understand why people compare video game characters to movie characters in combat abilities.

 

I'll never understand why people ever try and compare X person against X person, regardless. The way they turned force users from DBZ monsters and ect, the whole thing became absurd. Non-force users can kill any force user, as long as the writer wants it to happen that way. Theory-crafting inside a universe, where the EU made force power incredibly inconsistent is pointless. Making it more complicated then that, ends up getting absurd.

[SithKoriandr]

I'll never understand why people ever try and compare X person against X person, regardless. The way they turned force users from DBZ monsters and ect, the whole thing became absurd. Non-force users can kill any force user, as long as the writer wants it to happen that way. Theory-crafting inside a universe, where the EU made force power incredibly inconsistent is pointless. Making it more complicated then that, ends up getting absurd.

 

Yes, writers can do anything they want, at the same time, rules are supposed to have rules. Going by the movies, the best Hunter in the universe still lost to great Jedi. There's also the non force users having no defense against force users attacks if the force user is willing to go all out...more force choking, more force pushes.

 

Hunter can't pull that trigger if they can't pull the trigger. Oh hey, that hunter trooper carrying thermal detonators and yet they're not using the force to push the button that activates it, but they're more than willing to use the force to push a lightsaber button to activate the blade

[Melaphont]

Yes, writers can do anything they want, at the same time, rules are supposed to have rules. Going by the movies, the best Hunter in the universe still lost to great Jedi. There's also the non force users having no defense against force users attacks if the force user is willing to go all out...more force choking, more force pushes.

 

Hunter can't pull that trigger if they can't pull the trigger. Oh hey, that hunter trooper carrying thermal detonators and yet they're not using the force to push the button that activates it, but they're more than willing to use the force to push a lightsaber button to activate the blade

 

Force powers in the Star Wars universe have never been consistent or properly explained. They can easily explain things away with things similar to Mandalorian iron, or having the equivalent armor that protects against force powers. If races like the Yuuzhan Vong can exist in Star Wars, then technology that protects against the force can exist as well.

[Analyst]

Hunter can't pull that trigger if they can't pull the trigger. Oh hey, that hunter trooper carrying thermal detonators and yet they're not using the force to push the button that activates it, but they're more than willing to use the force to push a lightsaber button to activate the blade

It can be explained, actually. To push anything small like detonator button, you need to concentrate and be very precise, which is often very hard in the middle of combat, especially when the target is constantly moving. And, of course, you need to be a master of telekinesis to even try that tactic.

(An example from another universe: in Marvel universe there are many characters, capable of magnetic manipulations. But only Magneto regularly does feats like taking out pins of grenades or controlling enemy's guns - and even he most often prefers just wiping such enemies away with waves of power)

 

I have been surprised many times about the fact that Force-users do not attempt to switch off of or snort out opponent's lightsaber. After some discussions I assumed that one of the basic skills to learn while studying lightsaber combat is shielding your weapon with the Force against unwelcome influence. So, most often it is easier for a Force-user to crush the opponent, or to disarm him, then actually influence his weapon.

 

Force powers in the Star Wars universe have never been consistent or properly explained. They can easily explain things away with things similar to Mandalorian iron, or having the equivalent armor that protects against force powers. If races like the Yuuzhan Vong can exist in Star Wars, then technology that protects against the force can exist as well.

Mandalorian iron and vonduun-crab armour do not protect against the Force. They are lightsaber-resistant, which is a different thing.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Analyst

[adormitul]

Bobba Fett vs Dark Vader they fought a duel Vader used mind attacks on Bobba Fett but did not worked because of Fett to strong will but he pretended it worked and trowed himself of a cliff actually tricking Vader and giving Bobba Fett time to get on his back and shoot him in the head but thanks to his helm he survived. Then Vader grabed him with the force but Bobba trows the thing they fought for in the first place forcing Vader to release the telekinetic grip of Bobba to catch the thing. Bobba had the chance to shoot Vader again but decided against it. That battle was on a cliff.

So that is how a non force users defeats a force user

[Rhyltran]

Bobba Fett vs Dark Vader they fought a duel Vader used mind attacks on Bobba Fett but did not worked because of Fett to strong will but he pretended it worked and trowed himself of a cliff actually tricking Vader and giving Bobba Fett time to get on his back and shoot him in the head but thanks to his helm he survived. Then Vader grabed him with the force but Bobba trows the thing they fought for in the first place forcing Vader to release the telekinetic grip of Bobba to catch the thing. Bobba had the chance to shoot Vader again but decided against it. That battle was on a cliff.

So that is how a non force users defeats a force user

 

Vader wasn't taking boba fett remotely seriously. If Boba tried to shoot Vader in the back it'd have ended badly for him. Trying to knock over the thing you have been fighting and risking your life (almost died) for is not a win for Boba. It's a loss. Because to survive he had to give up the mission. Against a guy who was completely not even trying. That's not good support. To be fair most people Vader doesn't even try against gets plastered but if Vader wanted to go all out? Boba wouldn't stand a chance. Vader could kill Boba Fett with the flick of his wrist.

[adormitul]

Vader wasn't taking boba fett remotely seriously. If Boba tried to shoot Vader in the back it'd have ended badly for him. Trying to knock over the thing you have been fighting and risking your life (almost died) for is not a win for Boba. It's a loss. Because to survive he had to give up the mission. Against a guy who was completely not even trying. That's not good support. To be fair most people Vader doesn't even try against gets plastered but if Vader wanted to go all out? Boba wouldn't stand a chance. Vader could kill Boba Fett with the flick of his wrist.

 

You know that without the helmet he would have died right?