Alex_York Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Let's forget about balance changes for a while and a big circle jerk about which class is "OP". PVP in this game simply needs more attention from devs, they are focused on story aspect which has low replay value, done in couple hours and more suitable for single player game rather than for an MMO. So how can they improve PVP? 1. Some core mechanics in the engine need some work. If you play warzone 8v8 game just chokes itself, it absolutely cannot handle 16 players on screen no matter what system you have, your fps dips to 20-30 fps which is unacceptable. My CPU and GPU usage is about 30% in those situations but I sill have low fps. Reason is not the machine but the software. Same thing in 16man ops. 2. Make people want to play more pvp. PvP in any game is content with high replay value, it will make players play your game for more than 4 hours (like with story arc in kotfe). Rework reward system, 40 warzone comms for 1 common datacrysal, really? In first years you could get reusable warzone medpack and adrenal in the boxes why were they removed? Put it back as a reward for ranked play for example, reason may be because you have warzone usables in cartel market, but seriously we know nobody is dumb enough to buy it. Give us more decorations connected STRICTLY to PVP like you have decorations STRICTLY connected to PVE. 3. Content. Add more content to PVP. More warzone maps, more modes, for example 1v1 warzone. You can also add warzone mode with no bolster for hardcore people or a whole location that will have constant flag and be world pvp with some cool achievements and titles connected to killing other faction. Add more armors, weapons, emoticons that require VALOR rank. Right now leveling valor is harder than leveling anything else in the game and there is absolutely no reward by doing so. Would like to see some vendors from pvp that I can put in my stronghold also. 4. Medal system should be reworked, at some point it just stops giving you medals in warzone. You can kill a lot of oponents, you can do insane damage but still end up in the middle of the table. Add more tiers to rewards and reward players who give out their 100% and do good for the team. Remove cap on rewards for medals which is at 8 right now, that's just strange. 5. Would love to see some mod support like WOW has primarily for interface editing, seriously don't have a single clue on why wouldn't you? 6. Why not add spectate mode to ranked warzones? You know, like people actually watching the match or even maybe bet credits on it? Not only a credit sink but also prompts players to perform better. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parnormality Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 All the time and resources are now being spent on companions, something that should of been tested for a total of 10 mins by a dev. Its now taking them over a month to sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 All the time and resources are now being spent on companions, something that should of been tested for a total of 10 mins by a dev. Its now taking them over a month to sort out. I don't know how big their team is or how many people are dedicated to each aspect of the game, but I remember them saying that engine they picked is specifically crafted for making MMO games and it makes it so much easier for devs to do so. Makes you wonder what is the maintenance cost for this game vs how much they are making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ascensionthree Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 It's not fixable and I blame the players. The bads who "play with their friends" but avoid group ranked at all costs, and the bads who can't be bothered to gear, call, or breath through their noses. I've seen some ****** PvP but this game is truly the pits. And the funny thing is that it's kind of Bioware's fault, but again, it's mostly the players that have allowed this erosion of PvP to continue. It will NEVER, ever, ever, ever, ever, get better. Like it or leave it. There are far superior games out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 "lets forget about balance" Yes bioware do this very often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eriksarcasm Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm glad I read to the end... I like the betting idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerockyul Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'm glad I read to the end... I like the betting idea! I'd like to see this, too, but more for the spectator mode. With the complaints about win-trading, you wouldn't see that related to betting getting out of hand? But I'd like to be able to watch so I can see how the best are performing so I could learn from it. I learn less from "pros" screaming into chat about how bad everyone is and we should uninstall and more from watching, following, and then doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballroompirate Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 To put it simple, nerf Pt's and Sorcs. I know some people are gonna say it's a L2P issue (which I'm gonna bet those people are fotm re rollers playing PT's and Sorcs). Never have I seen total unbalance in terms of classes in pvp than in Swtor, except maybe when Frost Mages were ridiculous in WoW. How long have PT's and Sorcs been top dog in pvp? 3 or 4 seasons?. The sad thing is if they did care they wouldn't have had this drastic one sided affair for this long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xX-Archangel-Xx Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 To put it simple, nerf Pt's and Sorcs. I know some people are gonna say it's a L2P issue (which I'm gonna bet those people are fotm re rollers playing PT's and Sorcs). Never have I seen total unbalance in terms of classes in pvp than in Swtor, except maybe when Frost Mages were ridiculous in WoW. How long have PT's and Sorcs been top dog in pvp? 3 or 4 seasons?. The sad thing is if they did care they wouldn't have had this drastic one sided affair for this long. sins are op as well. But pt and sorcs are at another lvl, pt are insane they can half ur hp in just a blink of an eye and sorcs well, sometimes it seems to me im hitting an ops boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Let's forget about balance changes for a while and a big circle jerk about which class is "OP". PVP in this game simply needs more attention from devs, they are focused on story aspect which has low replay value, done in couple hours and more suitable for single player game rather than for an MMO. So how can they improve PVP? 1. Some core mechanics in the engine need some work. If you play warzone 8v8 game just chokes itself, it absolutely cannot handle 16 players on screen no matter what system you have, your fps dips to 20-30 fps which is unacceptable. My CPU and GPU usage is about 30% in those situations but I sill have low fps. Reason is not the machine but the software. Same thing in 16man ops. 2. Make people want to play more pvp. PvP in any game is content with high replay value, it will make players play your game for more than 4 hours (like with story arc in kotfe). Rework reward system, 40 warzone comms for 1 common datacrysal, really? In first years you could get reusable warzone medpack and adrenal in the boxes why were they removed? Put it back as a reward for ranked play for example, reason may be because you have warzone usables in cartel market, but seriously we know nobody is dumb enough to buy it. Give us more decorations connected STRICTLY to PVP like you have decorations STRICTLY connected to PVE. 3. Content. Add more content to PVP. More warzone maps, more modes, for example 1v1 warzone. You can also add warzone mode with no bolster for hardcore people or a whole location that will have constant flag and be world pvp with some cool achievements and titles connected to killing other faction. Add more armors, weapons, emoticons that require VALOR rank. Right now leveling valor is harder than leveling anything else in the game and there is absolutely no reward by doing so. Would like to see some vendors from pvp that I can put in my stronghold also. 4. Medal system should be reworked, at some point it just stops giving you medals in warzone. You can kill a lot of oponents, you can do insane damage but still end up in the middle of the table. Add more tiers to rewards and reward players who give out their 100% and do good for the team. Remove cap on rewards for medals which is at 8 right now, that's just strange. 5. Would love to see some mod support like WOW has primarily for interface editing, seriously don't have a single clue on why wouldn't you? 6. Why not add spectate mode to ranked warzones? You know, like people actually watching the match or even maybe bet credits on it? Not only a credit sink but also prompts players to perform better. What are your thoughts? I will give you BW answer: NO. They do not have the competence or the capacity to make positive changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 I'd like to see this, too, but more for the spectator mode. With the complaints about win-trading, you wouldn't see that related to betting getting out of hand? But I'd like to be able to watch so I can see how the best are performing so I could learn from it. I learn less from "pros" screaming into chat about how bad everyone is and we should uninstall and more from watching, following, and then doing. Win trading can be avoided really easily. Players can bet on either team but no one can see the bets or the odds. Usually not seeing the odds or bets itself will do more bad than good, but in this game nobody really knows who is gonna win, it's not like LOL or dota where you know the teams and you can predict the match to some degree, anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladnar Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) You put down some great ideas and i really wish they would invest a little more time in pvp so over a cuppa this morning im just going to add some random ideas i have that i would think would improve the pvp experience for all with hopefully not really that much effort involved. -have 3 tiers of pvp gear like in wow, used to at least, 1 craftable with a basic set full of expertise, scrapping bolster completely in this game, then your now basic set quickly earned with participation in wz's and then your HM pvp gear your arena gear if you will which requires more time and effort like now and needs you to have only the previous set to be able to trade in. (players want to try pvp but even with bolster they are being moaned up for not having full gear and blamed for failure rather than just enjoying the game. -teaming up for pvp, this has always been a problem. If you are good you don't want to waste your time in a team of randoms who don't try have poor gear or constantly need to be told what to do, but the flipside is the team you are playing against probably will so uninteresting and onesided battles are far too common and play on the above. If you are in bolster gear against a set up team, not a perfect team just people who recognise who can pvp and they join up, you will be splatted in seconds time and time again. DO NOT let people team up in unranked play and lets have good players mixed and matched all round and let the chaps fall where they may. If you really want to team up then we should be doing ranked. -more pvp maps(we just don't have enough and its boring seeing the same old over and over -some maps where you actually feel at war with each other not just playing a game, where you are trying to battle down their end of the map and they are trying to either stop you or get to yours -look at wow again for a pvp area with rewards for the team that own it, an small ops to run in the middle, special crafting stuff to collect and other bonus for the faction that own it to see if reps or imps really are better....(shame you ever allowed people to be both imp and rep when you had WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON as your perfect in for this game....as a double bonus would have been you are made to switch too sides if your sith is too good or your guardian doing evil things but that is asking too much. -8 man ranked as well as 4 man arena ranked, should never have been removed really now should it. -cross server pvp, this would make such a difference but im sure we won't see and hopefully many more players are coming online later this year so likely we never will -valor, yes too long in obtaining and we want more titles....more titles and rewards linked to pvp -i want to heal and help in my healer in pvp and get rewarded for it, not trade that in for guarding and doing dmg just to get extra whatevers -STUNS...people don't mind being stopped, slowed or cc'd, ganged up on or outfoxed but one thing everybody hates is having nigh on full health and getting stunned and then dying before they get back on their feet to at the very least trying to slap back or just run away or whatever and this has got SOO MUCH worse since 4.0 -vehicles and turrets in warzones. I used to love this aspect in wow and would love to see it here too. I would get in a turret or machine even when they did less dmg than my hunter just for the fun of it for something different. To use a tank to blow down a door whilst they try and smash it from under me, so we can get through to kill their leader. That was all awesome and IF ONLY HERE eh. -16 man pvp i would dearly love this but not if it brings gr8 lag, again it would just be the variance of it all and a welcome change of pace. So much more is possible -im not so sure about being able to pass our comms/wz comms on through our legacy. I have a sorc who heals and a consuler too and when i pve i get stuck with loads of old epic comms, whatever they are now, and thank goodness i can do something by passing them onto him and it makes walking into pve ops even easier for him..but should it be this easy can't he learn his way up too?....pvp though my main collects his full arena set if you will and then he carries on playing to collect for my other toons BUT HOLD ON once ive collected them all with him i have a full ranked pvp arsenal BH and then why would i bother to use him what will he gain? why would i use him before he has a full set and make myself weaker? It was better the way it used to be on this one... THERES ALWAYS TOO MUCH WRONG IN SWTOR and i really don't understand WHY? in pve at the moment its so much easier to play 8 man sm ops than it is to play a tactical flashpoint without a tank? I just don't understand what goes through the minds of those who make these kinds of mistakes. LESS CARTEL concentration and more PVP would be a great start and you should be able to show off how much pvp you do if not how good you are thus pvp mounts and pets NEED to be much more up there and much more worthwhile....for unranked absolutely and not just ranked. THNX Edited November 21, 2015 by Vladnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Good points Seriously, all they need is to dedicate some of their staff to pvp and at least try to make some changes. Edited November 21, 2015 by Alex_York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Elotes Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) One of the simplest things I think they can do to add a change to all objective based warzones is this...Make the objective at the start of the match begin past the 30 second mark but no later than the 1 minute mark. At a random time in those thirty seconds so it's not stationary time to be planned for. Huttsball spawns with enough time for full team fights. Off nodes are now viable for everyone and making mid optional. I still believe the best team should win the match, but this makes for some new tactics at the start that could/would be interesting. Edited November 21, 2015 by Mr_Elotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) have 3 tiers of pvp gear like in wow, used to at least, 1 craftable with a basic set full of expertise, scrapping bolster completely in this game, then your now basic set quickly earned with participation in wz's and then your HM pvp gear your arena gear if you will which requires more time and effort like now and needs you to have only the previous set to be able to trade in. (players want to try pvp but even with bolster they are being moaned up for not having full gear and blamed for failure rather than just enjoying the game. You want me to craft gear every few levels to play PvP as I level up? And you call it easier? And that crafting 14 pc set is easier than spending 50 comms on a 190 set at level 60 that fits my EVERY upcoming character if put in a legacy shell and if I customize the MH/OH? Ha-ha-ha. I have NEVER had easier time with gear. NEVER. Seriously, PvP has its problems, but gearing is not one of them. Anyone with an ounce of willingness to play PvP can play PvP in a current system on any level and use bolster to their advantage. Tbh, I can only shrug when people demand to be able to play in their 216 sets. Deal. Edited November 21, 2015 by DomiSotto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladnar Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You want me to craft gear every few levels to play PvP as I level up? And you call it easier? And that crafting 14 pc set is easier than spending 50 comms on a 190 set at level 60 that fits my EVERY upcoming character if put in a legacy shell and if I customize the MH/OH? Ha-ha-ha. I have NEVER had easier time with gear. NEVER. Seriously, PvP has its problems, but gearing is not one of them. Anyone with an ounce of willingness to play PvP can play PvP in a current system on any level and use bolster to their advantage. Tbh, I can only shrug when people demand to be able to play in their 216 sets. Deal. YOU OBVIOUSLY didn't read the post at all and i suggest you look again and try answering properly if at all. Thanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omeru Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 To improve pvp experience first they need to hire real game developers amd fire current stuff than we can see improvements but it wont happen and current team neither have vision nor talent to make better game experience so it is easy to say RIP swtor pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow-Canadian Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) Bioware isn't bad because they make bad PVP decisions, currently they're bad because they are making no decisions. Where is the balance for 4.0? The class disparity is huge. Edited November 21, 2015 by Fellow-Canadian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 You want me to craft gear every few levels to play PvP as I level up? And you call it easier? And that crafting 14 pc set is easier than spending 50 comms on a 190 set at level 60 that fits my EVERY upcoming character if put in a legacy shell and if I customize the MH/OH? Ha-ha-ha. I have NEVER had easier time with gear. NEVER. Seriously, PvP has its problems, but gearing is not one of them. Anyone with an ounce of willingness to play PvP can play PvP in a current system on any level and use bolster to their advantage. Tbh, I can only shrug when people demand to be able to play in their 216 sets. Deal. I concur with the gear grind for pvp on this game being easy, very easy. Especially now. I just pvp as a lowbie/mid, and end up with 40-50k wz comms saved up before cap lvl. I have comms saved on alts that still are sitting to be used at this moment, with no 65s to spend them on yet. Getting pvp gears is EASY. I agree with you Domi, regarding bolster in lowbies and mids being "good enough". I think bolster gets screwy at cap level though, and that's where the biggest problems emerge. Just wanted to clarify my stand on bolster at cap level, whereas i think you feel bolster is fine at cap too. That's where we disagree I guess. I also wanted to say I have noticed a decline in your optimism, Domi! Makes me sad. Did your ranked experience leave that bad of an impression on you? Seems ever since you tried ranked, you have been morose and more pessimistic which is not at all how you usually present yourself. I wish I could say "just ignore the rudeness" and you could, but obviously everyone is different and not everyone is as tolerant of BS as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballroompirate Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 sins are op as well. But pt and sorcs are at another lvl, pt are insane they can half ur hp in just a blink of an eye and sorcs well, sometimes it seems to me im hitting an ops boss BW really needs to look at their own leaderboards. I know a lot of people want more maps/modes in pvp but there needs some class tweeks before ANYTHING else, it's kinda ridiculous how crappy Slingers and Mercs have been in pvp compared to PT's and Sorcs the past few seasons. They need to go back to the paper beats rock system cause it's ridiculous how the top two classes can pretty much beat beat any class thrown at them. I know some people have this mentality of "it's a L2p issue" but it's not, take an equally geared/skilled Merc or Slinger vs a equally skilled/geared PT or Sorc, guaranteed 9 out of 10 times the PT's and Sorcs will come out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKalbo Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Balance would be any dps toon could take any other dps toon regardless of ac; maybe needing 2 dps to take one heals..I'd call that balance. The devs apparently have other ideas as they continue with the same OP classes and give too many bypasses to the UP classes defenses, This makes for some urine-poor gameplay IMHO. I don't know how to tell them to fix this mess; and at this point i'm wondering if i even care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomiSotto Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Did your ranked experience leave that bad of an impression on you? Yes, it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 I concur with the gear grind for pvp on this game being easy, very easy. I don't think it's an issue, we need more people playing pvp, getting pvp gear easily is part of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarGazerElite Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Fix it so that I'm not spending as much time in a PvP match stunned or otherwise not in control of my toons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Would also be cool to see deathmatch pvp modes where objective is to get as many kills as possible for your team or free-for-all style deathmatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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