Star Fortress Heroic no longer soloable...

[TX_Angel]

Being old gives one some perspective on issues like this. Back in the 8-bit, 16-bit console days, the idea that you could complete a game without losing multiple times would seem to be ridiculous. Games used to be wickedly hard compared to now. I need to add the obligatory: We used to have to march uphill both ways in the freezing cold and snow to finish a game. (j/k)

 

So can I ask? And please understand this is a question not an insult.

 

Should there be no risk of loss in the game? Do you believe the game would be more fun that way?

 

I grew up with the NES, I had the robot when it launched. I was also a kid at the time and had all the time and reflexes in the world.

 

I'm in my 40s, I'm married, I have three kids, I have a full time career.

 

Do I want to die 6 times clearing Heroic Star Fortress to earn my e-peen? No. I don't, I won't, and I'm not interested.

 

I liked it the way it was last week, bring that back.

 

If the game wants to be all hard core, that's fine, but that isn't me. I want to win the games that I play. As the paying customer, that is my choice and my option. It is Bioware's choice to provide it or not, and my choice to keep paying them or not.

 

I suspect I and others like me outnumber the "elite" players by quite a bit, and we likely have far more money to spend than they do. But time will tell. Bioware does not have a good track record at making further adjustments, they tend to nerf unto nothing and then do nothing.

[TX_Angel]

exactly

 

why try to get better at a video game, instead just whine about how it's not easymode zero challenge

 

I got better at real life, the rewards are better in that game.

 

I use some of those real life rewards to pay to smash stuff in video games, which I want to win.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again... the gamers from the 80's and 90's grew up, have lives outside of video games, and want a more casual experience that doesn't revolve around a slugfest of die/try again/die/try again.

 

We want the feeling of being challenged, without really being challenged.

 

If I want a challenge, I'll go to work, the pay is better.

[Pagy]

I got better at real life, the rewards are better in that game.

 

I use some of those real life rewards to pay to smash stuff in video games, which I want to win.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again... the gamers from the 80's and 90's grew up, have lives outside of video games, and want a more casual experience that doesn't revolve around a slugfest of die/try again/die/try again.

 

We want the feeling of being challenged, without really being challenged.

 

If I want a challenge, I'll go to work, the pay is better.

the video games of the 80s and 90s were about 1000x more difficult, so i dont see your point, like at all.

 

time spent in game is whaetevr you want it to be. if you only get fulfilled in games by being terrible at them and typing in god-mode and facerolling everything, well good for you i guess.

[Alssaran]

Nerfing comps to try and get me to group won't work, I'll just not do the content. Do it enough and I'll have nothing left to do. This is not a good business plan.

 

That's what I said earlier. Forcing someone into a group won't work. But the point still stands: Nobody is forcing you into a group. You can still solo the HM SF with each of the classes, provided you don't try for the One for All achievement every single time on every single undergeared character. That achievement is worth 100 points, a title and CC. It's probably not supposed to be done right at 65 without any gear.

 

You can still solo the HM SF. I did that on my Sage and Sentinel too. Collect the crates and bust some kneecaps. The force focus alone can clear a whole wave of 4 Skytroopers, a silver sun reactor droid and 50% of the two golden mobs during the early exarch fight.

 

It is also worth noting that what is "easy" for YOU is not always "easy" for ME, or anyone else.

 

My "gaming" days are long behind me. I literally just used 2 DCD and my interrupt when the enemy was casting his Goddess ability/Thundering blast. What's so hard to understand? What's so hard to press one button when you see a three second cast? I know people with brain damage who can do that.

 

So I won't do them again.

 

Then don't do them, for crying out loud. Your loss.

 

And then finally there is the "fun" aspect... I found the heroic Star Fortresses just about perfect before the nerf, with a high ranked companion. You could still die if you were stupid, but they weren't a slogfest.

 

Fun before the nerf? You could pull the exarch fight and go AFK to grab a beer. I once did that! It was like watching a movie! If you died during the past three weeks at anything less of an ops...seriously. I did the Heroic 4 bosses in the Rakghoul tunnels on a Sentinel with Lana on Influence twenty and didn't even break a sweat beyond 80% hp. The past three weeks were like a tutorial. It was fun during the first few days, but it became incredibly boring later on.

 

Crazy thought: I play games to actually play.

 

Now they are just a slogfest. Doable? Clearly, some people report doing them, but that doesn't mean they are fun.

 

They aren't a slogfest. Did you know how many times I died on my Sentinel through a SF Heroic 2 and on my Juggernaut through the One for All achievement? Zero times.

 

Our understanding of fun clearly differs. I like to use my abilities and actually have the threat of dying when I play an MMORPG. It seems your understanding of fun is watching a companion do your work while drinking beer.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again... the gamers from the 80's and 90's grew up, have lives outside of video games, and want a more casual experience that doesn't revolve around a slugfest of die/try again/die/try again.

 

I'm working approx. 35 hours a week while attending evening classes for about four hours a week and I'm having a rather active social circle which meets two or three evenings a month to attend celebrations, have a get together or go to the cinema. Yet I cleared that HM FP with One for All without a hassle. Does your "the people who grew up and have a life can't do this, only nerds can!" theory not hold up anymore?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alssaran

[cach-x]

I got better at real life, the rewards are better in that game.

 

You make it sound like you shouldn't be playing at all, much less arguing on a internet forum ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

It's always amusing whenever someone tries to pop the "I have a better life than you" card over a MMO forum, as if somehow entitles you to anything.

 

I prefer my games to not be completely braindead, thank you. Plenty of instant gratification entertainment out there already.

[TX_Angel]

That's what I said earlier. Forcing someone into a group won't work. But the point still stands: Nobody is forcing you into a group. You can still solo the HM SF with each of the classes, provided you don't try for the One for All achievement every single time on every single undergeared character. That achievement is worth 100 points, a title and CC. It's probably not supposed to be done right at 65 without any gear.

 

Maybe YOU can solo them with every class, but perhaps other people can't.

 

I'm not remotely undergeared, I've got nearly 83k health on my Commando. Yes, it is comms gear, I get that, but I still have a 220 barrel in my MH (thanks GTN for that deal, only 2 million!). The only 208 gear left on my toon are the 208 PvP proc relics, all the armor is 216, both implants and ears are 220, and the offhand is 220. All 14 are 208 augmented.

 

Lana is influence rank 49.

 

I found Heroic Star Fort to be a painful slog that I gave up on, it wasn't fun. It was fun prior to the nerf.

 

Thankfully I got the One for All done before the nerf, that actually was a bit of a challenge, but that's fine, it was balanced nicely.

 

Then don't do them, for crying out loud. Your loss.

 

It is also the game's loss if myself, and people like me leave. Are you in such a hurry to tell people to stop playing?

 

They aren't a slogfest.

 

You're welcome to your opinion, but I find many elite players like to project that opinion onto others.

 

I have no issues if you'd like a challenge, if you want something "HARD", that's ok. Don't assume we all play as well as you and want the same thing.

[TX_Angel]

the video games of the 80s and 90s were about 1000x more difficult, so i dont see your point, like at all.

 

You don't have to see it, for it to be valid for me.

[Dornaa]

After completing the Belsavis Heroic SF on my Assassin Tank last night (which I mentioned earlier in this thread), I decided to try my Annihilation Marauder in the Tatooine Heroic SF. Gear is mostly 208 with 3 216 pieces. 4 of them have 200 augments. I used Pierce who is Rank 29. I only have 25 datacrons unlocked and all the comp stories finished. I also have all 4 Alliance Specs up to Rank 10. I chose to use a Command stim to help Pierce.

 

I did okay throughout the Fortress even killing the 2 Paladins. I had Pierce heal on the hard fights, DPS otherwise. But I did grab the Alliance buffs and all 4 crates for the buffs. I found those important to completing the Fortress. I made liberal use of Heroic Moment and those crate buffs when I needed them. The Ephermeris room was rough and nearly died but made it through barely. The first 2 reactor rooms went okay also. Then I hit Reactor Room #3. I sweat it's harder than the Exarch, I died several times. Not fun. But I did finally get it. The Exarch was easier but I made a big mistake and paid for it. On the second try, I did kill him. Again, I used the various buffs and Heroic Moment.

 

All throughout the Fortress I used CDs when I needed them (stuns, defensive, etc). I pretty much used everything in my arsenal. I think that's the key to soloing the Heroic SFs. Get to Rank 10 with the Alliance, use everything you got, and get the buffs. Granted some want to do the achievement and I understand that. But if you just want to get the quests done, use everything you have to get through it.

 

And yes, some people don't need the buffs and all. Not all of us are highly skilled players. Me, I just turned 44. I'm not a kid anymore with those quick reflexes . But it can be done. Be patient, use all your skills, and grab the buffs. You can get through it. Now, I have to test Alderaan and Voss, the two I consider the hardest...*gulp*.

 

With all that said, I do think they went too far with the nerf. Was it needed, yes, but I do think it needs to be dialed back some. Not all the way, but some.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Dornaa

[TX_Angel]

After completing the Belsavis Heroic SF on my Assassin Tank last night (which I mentioned earlier in this thread), I decided to try my Annihilation Marauder in the Tatooine Heroic SF. Gear is mostly 208 with 3 216 pieces. 4 of them have 200 augments. I used Pierce who is Rank 29. I only have 25 datacrons unlocked and all the comp stories finished. I also have all 4 Alliance Specs up to Rank 10. I chose to use a Command stim to help Pierce.

 

I did okay throughout the Fortress even killing the 2 Paladins. I had Pierce heal on the hard fights, DPS otherwise. But I did grab the Alliance buffs and all 4 crates for the buffs. I found those important to completing the Fortress. I made liberal use of Heroic Moment and those crate buffs when I needed them. The Ephermeris room was rough and nearly died but made it through barely. The first 2 reactor rooms went okay also. Then I hit Reactor Room #3. I sweat it's harder than the Exarch, I died several times. Not fun. But I did finally get it. The Exarch was easier but I made a big mistake and paid for it. On the second try, I did kill him. Again, I used the various buffs and Heroic Moment.

 

All throughout the Fortress I used CDs when I needed them (stuns, defensive, etc). I pretty much used everything in my arsenal. I think that's the key to soloing the Heroic SFs. Get to Rank 10 with the Alliance, use everything you got, and get the buffs. Granted some want to do the achievement and I understand that. But if you just want to get the quests done, use everything you have to get through it.

 

And yes, some people don't need the buffs and all. Not all of us are highly skilled players. Me, I just turned 44. I'm not a kid anymore with those quick reflexes . But it can be done. Be patient, use all your skills, and grab the buffs. You can get through it. Now, I have to test Alderaan and Voss, the two I consider the hardest...*gulp*.

 

^ I have no doubt all of that is true...

 

If I really wanted to, and didn't mind dying and hitting my head against the wall, I imagine I could do it as well.

 

But why? What's the point? The reward is not reflective of the effort. It is less effort to do a SM operation and the rewards there are FAR better.

 

If the Star Fortress dropped 220 token gear as a reward for doing it solo, I could understand, but as it is, it is simply not fun and not worth doing. For what, some 208 drops, some decos, and 4 basic comms? Really?

[Beohbe]

^ I have no doubt all of that is true...

 

If I really wanted to, and didn't mind dying and hitting my head against the wall, I imagine I could do it as well.

 

But why? What's the point? The reward is not reflective of the effort. It is less effort to do a SM operation and the rewards there are FAR better.

 

If the Star Fortress dropped 220 token gear as a reward for doing it solo, I could understand, but as it is, it is simply not fun and not worth doing. For what, some 208 drops, some decos, and 4 basic comms? Really?

 

Then don't. Do. It.

I'm just as old as you are, and probably work just as hard and as long as you. I also pay money to play, just like everyone else here. And based on your original post here, I'm more casual than you. And yet I enjoy content that isn't stupid easy.

 

Heroic Star Fortress is fine. Leave it be.

[Dornaa]

^ I have no doubt all of that is true...

 

If I really wanted to, and didn't mind dying and hitting my head against the wall, I imagine I could do it as well.

 

But why? What's the point? The reward is not reflective of the effort. It is less effort to do a SM operation and the rewards there are FAR better.

 

If the Star Fortress dropped 220 token gear as a reward for doing it solo, I could understand, but as it is, it is simply not fun and not worth doing. For what, some 208 drops, some decos, and 4 basic comms? Really?

 

I completely understand your position. For me, it is worth doing.

 

I solo about 99% of this game. Most of my characters are not in a guild. Three of my Imperial characters are in one, but all my friends left years ago leaving me with a 1 person guild. I group up to do a quest here and there and have done a few world bosses. I see the Heroic SFs and the Alliance stuff as my endgame. I don't do OPs and very rarely FPs.

 

So, the companion nerf hit me kind of hard. Right now I have 12 level 65s with 8 more to finish leveling. I love doing quests and I want to get all the Heroic SFs done on my characters. And I like getting the barrels/hilts/mods from the paladins to give to other characters who can use them. I'm not looking forward to doing PVP to get Pierce and Forex as I don't like PVP. But I will buckle down and do it eventually. Yes, a lot of trips into those Fortresses and lots of planetary heroics in my future. And PVP...sigh. But, I am choosing to do that.

 

To each their own. If you don't think it's worth it, I won't criticize you for it. That's your choice and I respect that. My post was mainly to help people and hopefully some good advice so they too can get through a Heroic SF.

[Amadahy]

Here's what I don't understand...

 

During 12xp we were given the option to buy that token. Which would turn off the extra XP boost. Therefore, I don't see why we cannot have this for companions. Those who want 4.0 companions get what they want, and those who approve of the nerfs get what they want. Everyone wins.

 

I haven't tried soloing heroic SF, yet. However, based on feedback from various friends it is possible for some classes. Others, not so much.

[Kilvarough]

I haven't tried soloing heroic SF, yet. However, based on feedback from various friends it is possible for some classes. Others, not so much.

 

Even before the nerf, I had couldn't solo H2 SF. My companion was inf 25 and I had a nice mix of mostly 216 gear, a few 208 and 1 220. I finally figured out it was because my companion (who was in heal mode) was stealing all threat and getting beat down. I'm a sorc which means I'm a clothie, so once my companion was dead, I was too. Now, the companion doesn't keep threat, but also can't heal me fast enough, since I'm a clothie. It's definitely based on what type of gear you can wear on whether you can solo them or not. Clothies, at least light sorcs in my experience, just simply cannot solo H2 SF's without being ops geared and keeping their companions in a range where they don't steal all threat but can also keep you healed.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Kilvarough

[xmarcusprimex]

Some sad sack is saying that this is out of context and the dev in question was only talking about heroics on planets.... which is nonsense, considering that it says HEROIC 2+ on both planet missions *and* Star Fortress Missions. If that wasn't the case, Star Fortress Heroics should read HEROIC 2++++ DO NOT ATTEMPT SOLO.

 

But that would assume people read...

 

 

The HEROIC 2 as part of the Black Hole weekly Imp side, although it says its a Heroic 2.. is still a Heroic 4 because you need 4 players to work the panels at the very end to beat the boss. A character and 1 companion is unable to do this.

But it does say "Heroic 2", even though it is not.

Just an example.

Edited November 19, 2015 by xmarcusprimex

[Kilvarough]

Except there is an achievement for doing H2 SF solo with no Alliance buffs, therefore it MUST be able to be solo'ed, with just you and your companion counting as the 2 in H2, otherwise this achievement is unattainable.

[Reno_Tarshil]

The HEROIC 2 as part of the Black Hole weekly Imp side, although it says its a Heroic 2.. is still a Heroic 4 because you need 4 players to work the panels at the very end to beat the boss. A character and 1 companion is unable to do this.

But it does say "Heroic 2", even though it is not.

Just an example.

 

Uhm... I've always done the EOT Puzzle by myself no problems back when it was a Heroic 4. You don't need 4 players for it.

[Dalethfc]

Except there is an achievement for doing H2 SF solo with no Alliance buffs, therefore it MUST be able to be solo'ed, with just you and your companion counting as the 2 in H2, otherwise this achievement is unattainable.

 

Not just that,, they Are Story Arc so Must be completed

[Grayseven]

The OP is wrong. I did it just fine with a level 40 companion and wrote my findings HERE.

 

You just can't faceroll the SF H2, you have to actually play.

[Kilvarough]

You just can't faceroll the SF H2, you have to actually play.

 

I do play, I know the rotation for my class, and am very skilled with it, even in pvp, but the H2 SF's are still a stopping point for me. It has to be the difference in armor types. I see ppl who say they have no trouble solo'ing H2 SF's, yet almost always those ppl wear heavy armor. Then there are those who state that they sometimes have trouble but can do it after a couple of deaths. Almost all those ppl are wearing Medium Armor. The ppl who say they can't solo it, even with high inf companions are almost always Light Armor classes. They really need to balance it so that any class can do H2 SF's solo, no matter what armor type they wear.

[Canareth]

Except there is an achievement for doing H2 SF solo with no Alliance buffs, therefore it MUST be able to be solo'ed, with just you and your companion counting as the 2 in H2, otherwise this achievement is unattainable.

 

Think of that like One Light/Alone in the Darkness in WoW. You couldn't do that without a great deal of experience on the fight and overgearing a normal run.

 

Solo Heroic SF with no Alliance buffs is the hardest solo objective in the game; you weren't supposed to be clearing it halfway through the expansion story. People being upset they can't grab it immediately isn't valid. That a high-rank companion and buffs can't keep up certain classes no matter what IS a valid complaint.

[Alssaran]

Except there is an achievement for doing H2 SF solo with no Alliance buffs, therefore it MUST be able to be solo'ed, with just you and your companion counting as the 2 in H2, otherwise this achievement is unattainable.

 

And as I have previously pointed out: It is possible. Even now. Even on every class.

 

Just because an achievement is there doesn't mean everyone has to receive it for free. That's why it is called an achievement, believe it or not.

 

Fact: People are still able to solo the content. I did that today (Sentinel/Sage/Juggernaut). My friend did it on his Vanguard an hour ago. That means the achievement is not impossible to get. You can still do it. Just because it is there doesn't mean everyone in the game should be able to do it straight when hitting 65. SF are also not eniterly story based. They are a side story arc of the main story arc. The story continues in Chapter X: Anarchy in Paradise. So the argument "H2 SF must be soloable because it is story" doesn't hold ground. Eternity Vault is also a "story", yet I don't see people complaining about soloing that. Flashpoint and operation. Same thing. Something you attempt with a group.

 

Solo Heroic SF with no Alliance buffs is the hardest solo objective in the game; you weren't supposed to be clearing it halfway through the expansion story. People being upset they can't grab it immediately isn't valid. That a high-rank companion and buffs can't keep up certain classes no matter what IS a valid complaint.

 

This. So much this. Just because there is one achievement for it doesn't mean everyone should be able to do it starting fresh at 65. It is possible. You still can't do it? Buckle up then. Willing to leave for one achievement you can't do? Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alssaran

[Grayseven]

I do play, I know the rotation for my class, and am very skilled with it, even in pvp, but the H2 SF's are still a stopping point for me. It has to be the difference in armor types. I see ppl who say they have no trouble solo'ing H2 SF's, yet almost always those ppl wear heavy armor. Then there are those who state that they sometimes have trouble but can do it after a couple of deaths. Almost all those ppl are wearing Medium Armor. The ppl who say they can't solo it, even with high inf companions are almost always Light Armor classes. They really need to balance it so that any class can do H2 SF's solo, no matter what armor type they wear.

 

Knowing your rotation is only half the battle. Do you know your cooldowns, do you know the fights well enough to know when to use what ability? I have guildmates taking Sages through the SF H2 and they aren't having any issues and it doesn't get any lighter than that when it come to armor.

 

Most simple, are you CC'ing the gold while taking out the normals then strongs? The more mobs beating on you, the worse it gets. Take out the ones you can fast, work your way up. Are you using LoS?

 

I think the big problem is that the game is so easy in most aspects that the moment any level of difficulty is introduced, people lose their minds. They've forgotten how to play because they didn't need to know how to for so long.

[naNuke]

For anyone who wants to solo Star Fortress as any class with a healing companion theres the trick that will make you do it:

 

1) kill weaker enemies first

2) DONT STAND STILL

3) KITE THE ENEMIES

4) LOS THEM

5) KEEP MOVING DAMMIT

 

There you have it, simple

Take the alliance buffs if you want easier time

[JSitruc]

i just solo'd the h2 SF for tatooine.. this is my first H2 of the star fortress.. and DubYaTeaEff that was not fun..

 

I used a dps commando with a mix of 216/220 gear with Senya rank 35 healing.

 

The first boss i was pretty confident about. then all of a sudden, Senya and myself were below 40%, while the boss was at 30%. Quickly focused him down and moved on.

 

The next spot I had real trouble was at the room where 2 zakuul knights come in. They killed me 2 times, the 2nd time was my mistake. the 3rd time I stunned the one knight, took out the other (still took me down to 50%) and luckily had time to heal up before taking on the stunned knight. Killed him.

 

Now this was the first time doing this H2, so I didn't know how to defeat the Exarch. It took a few tries. The first phase was fine, 2nd was a little rough since it took a few waves before I could figure out how to use the DPC's.

 

The 3 phase.. my head was about to explode. Between dying, running back, and accidentally falling off the platform... I about had enough. Finally after 5 deaths, i was able to take down the 3rd phase.

 

Final phase up on top. wasnt too bad up until he went into phase 2. I was trying to kite, dps, heal and use senya's heals. It worked until about 40% and I noticed senya wasnt moving out of the AOE and she didnt last long. So the last 30% of the fight, it was just me and the Exarch..

 

Iv gotta say, in the last 3 years.. this was the most difficult solo fight I have ever done and completed. With that said, I dont plan on doing anymore lol...

[Kilvarough]

Knowing your rotation is only half the battle. Do you know your cooldowns, do you know the fights well enough to know when to use what ability? I have guildmates taking Sages through the SF H2 and they aren't having any issues and it doesn't get any lighter than that when it come to armor.

 

Most simple, are you CC'ing the gold while taking out the normals then strongs? The more mobs beating on you, the worse it gets. Take out the ones you can fast, work your way up. Are you using LoS?

 

I think the big problem is that the game is so easy in most aspects that the moment any level of difficulty is introduced, people lose their minds. They've forgotten how to play because they didn't need to know how to for so long.

 

I'll admit, I'm a casual player. I've only recently gotten somewhat hardcore into the game, with the release of 4.0. I do forget my stun sometimes, I do forget to pop my shield and have a bad habit of staying in one spot. Maybe that is the difference. But I've been grouped with ppl who have seen me fight in other H2's and they say I'm doing everything right, so they have not idea why I'm so weak in soloing H2 SF's. Maybe the game just hates me, idk, lol