Companion Changes in 4.0.2

[Shazwhite]

Up until now i was able to do all Planet Heroics with my companion at level. Now i can't even kill 1 group in a Heroic 2+ without getting destroyed. I just logged out in disgust. If this isn't fixed ASAP i will just let my sub run out and find something else to play. Edited November 18, 2015 by Shazwhite

[Kurou_Daijuuji]

The problem is, level synch. So there is no point where a player feels powerful anymore. The heroics were still challenging with multiple gold star enemies. Now they're much much harder and way more time consuming. They're not worth the effort anymore. What bioware had done was make it so people could "enjoy" the grind.

 

Those who wanted a challenge could have made one for themselves. And man, am I tired of you Bioware apologists that come out of the woodwork ready to take whatever load the devs are willing to splash on you.

 

I've always loathed the idea of level scaling in games. Theoretically, it's supposed to make everything a challenge, but it always winds up with you doing more-or-less the exact same damage percentage to enemies, just the numbers change a bit. You don't grow, you just sort of plateau until you hit the end.

 

There's a reason games like Morrowind will always have a place among my favorites, and that's because it allows for challenge and for you to be overpowered, at the same time. If I want to have a more difficult playstyle, I can. If I want to make myself overpowered and blow through damn near everything, I can.

[Magnouss]

The problem is, level synch. So there is no point where a player feels powerful anymore. The heroics were still challenging with multiple gold star enemies. Now they're much much harder and way more time consuming. They're not worth the effort anymore. What bioware had done was make it so people could "enjoy" the grind.

 

Those who wanted a challenge could have made one for themselves. And man, am I tired of you Bioware apologists that come out of the woodwork ready to take whatever load the devs are willing to splash on you.

 

I have to keep bumping comments like these. When you are doing repetitive content like the Star Fortresses it shouldn't be a long boring grind. At least when you were OP, it made them worth doing. But if I have to take a lot more time and struggle through them, forget it. I will just come back when they update the story.

[DurdensWrath]

I have to keep bumping comments like these. When you are doing repetitive content like the Star Fortresses it shouldn't be a long boring grind. At least when you were OP, it made them worth doing. But if I have to take a lot more time and struggle through them, forget it. I will just come back when they update the story.

I really feel like Bioware did a cash grab. They made something they knew was powerful. Got people to talk about it, and bring other people in, got their money. And then removed it to please whatever a-holes were ************ in the first place.

[Kyleslater]

Nice! Nice! You now screwed up the only thing you had done right with companions. If you are going to nerf them like this. Let us put gear on them again so at least we can make them tolerable. If they are worse then what I can get them to with full 224 and augs then you've done it wrong just saying.

[Alssaran]

I'm usually not one to complain that easily about a nerf, but this was way over the top.

 

A 20-30% nerf would have been very much needed and would have worked without any issues. A 75% nerf to healing was simply way too much. I don't understand why Bioware always does this. They patch something up. They see it isn't "working as intended". Instead of applying a 25% nerf first and see the actual results, they immediately do a 75-80% nerf and smash it into the ground.

 

SF are not even fun right now. It's just a tideous long CD wait. It actually feels as if the companions heal less now than pre-4.0.

 

Bioware, seriously. This isn't working. At least up them again by roughly 40%. That would still be a 30% nerf to what they were before. But don't keep them this way.

[Lattervane]

Bioware, did you guys even test companions prior to launch of KoTFE? Surely you must have known the level they were performing at and decided to roll out the expansion anyway. Just a couple weeks after release you do a complete 180 on companions. It's almost like you have no *********** clue what you are doing with your own game. Frustrating to watch a game with so much potential be handled so poorly year after year.

[JamieKirby]

The only real challenge i ever encountered in this game was avoiding the companion's inevitable death, i could have sent the companion to take out the pack of normals, while i took out the elite or strong or whatever and when i was finished, i could have like 80% HP left and the companion would have lost over 50% of their health just facing the normals, in my opinion, that was not right, so i went to the healer companions and never looked back.

 

The 4.0 changes to companions, i can use anyone i want in healer mode, though due to the insanely low influence gainage via conversations, i still have to pick what they like to get the influences up high or to spend loads and i do mean over the top loads of credits just to increase a single companion up to ILevel 20.

 

I am thinking they need to get in lower level companion quests that net us players alot of influence, thats just my opinion.

[Deyjarl]

YES!

 

Numerous times - hence why I would have to outlevel stuff by at the very least 5 Levels grinding mobs simply to have a chance ... there is so much content I have seen since 4.0 that I had NEVER seen before ...

 

Standard MMO tactics for hard content - gain some extra levels then come back & try again - which is what I did - now that is no longer an option - so Level Sync MUST go if they nerf the companion.

 

Again don't believe this one bit. Story related, not optional heroics.

[Deyjarl]

According to Eric they were not broken companions were intended to be powerful it's just BW overcompensated and made them more powerful then they intended them to be.

 

You are just playing word games now.

[Ghisallo]

The problem is, level synch. So there is no point where a player feels powerful anymore. The heroics were still challenging with multiple gold star enemies. Now they're much much harder and way more time consuming. They're not worth the effort anymore. What bioware had done was make it so people could "enjoy" the grind.

 

Those who wanted a challenge could have made one for themselves. And man, am I tired of you Bioware apologists that come out of the woodwork ready to take whatever load the devs are willing to splash on you.

 

First the last bit is NOT why they changed companions. BW, whether you agree with their rationale or not, has planned specific things regarding difficulty level... the companions messed with this and so they had to adjust them. As such individual players adjusting the difficulty on their own was never an option as BW wants a set level of challenge.

 

Why? In a persistent world MMORPG alternating challenge (in the persistent world), whether built in or by player choice is a non-starter. It doesn't matter if it's a player gimping himself or using a clicky to make them more poerfu than they should be. Why? Well first, as it is a persistent world, the devs want an average progression speed because of limited content. They actually do math and say "it should take the average player X hours to complete this content" as part of their planning process. There are other reasons, when a game has PvP how fast you can level in the PvE world can effect PvP competitiveness, how fast areas can be depleted of quest mobs etc, but the planning one is one of the biggest.

 

Now those things aren't think most players think about and many could careless about but the devs HAVE to care about it if the MMO is going to have longevity.

[Nihilumus]

Well after returning to the game from before it went f2p, I had some good fun with it, and saw things that I hadn't done before. Tried to do some leftover Heroic 2+s I had on Tatooine, and wondered why I had nearly died 4 times on one heroic. Found out the hard way about this nerf since patch notes = tl;dr

 

Nerfs are all well and good. Perhaps they did need them.. but I'm in the boat that they feel too nerfed. A tank comp should hold aggro yes, but a tank comp shouldn't die in 2 seconds either. I never rolled with DPS or Heal style comps cos I enjoy dps. Having a competent tank that doesn't whine or cry about something while tanking was a wonderful relief while focusing on what the tank was tanking.. but this is a bit much. Sure I could probably do story mode stuff I suppose, but if a comp can't live long enough to be a tank, that needs a bit a of looking into.

[Deathsightofhell]

GG i can't finnish soloin' my legendary status at all now, before I could be 2-5 level behind and do semi okay, now I just get destroyed , compion are crappy dps even at 50 , on my sith assassin , my compion can't even keep me alive in the 3rd core , Healers player are going be in demand, and playing a healer class with a crappy as DPS compion is even worst now.

 

 

Good job BW and Ea, you ruin the one thing that made the game flexable

[Raukoainur]

1+ year had not played ...rejoined 2 weeks ago...my first impresion with KotFE: "OMG for the first time this companions have sense"....now don't have it...again.

 

So...unsubscribing...again... because when this game goes, then backs... You have no balls!

 

as simple as that. BB

[Ghisallo]

GG i can't finnish soloin' my legendary status at all now, before I could be 2-5 level behind and do semi okay, now I just get destroyed , compion are crappy dps even at 50 , on my sith assassin , my compion can't even keep me alive in the 3rd core , Healers player are going be in demand, and playing a healer class with a crappy as DPS compion is even worst now.

 

 

Good job BW and Ea, you ruin the one thing that made the game flexable

 

try not being 2-5 levels behind what you are doing... then see what happens. Do you really think a level 50 toon should be talking lvl 55 stuff?

[Voltorak]

I haven't read one person's comments on here saying that they like the nerf except the Blank Blank that started all this crap to begin with, I hope you choke on your BS

[DurdensWrath]

I haven't read one person's comments on here saying that they like the nerf except the Blank Blank that started all this crap to begin with, I hope you choke on your BS

 

Ask Ghisallo. He's all up in Bioware's junk. He loves this.

[-Highsteel-]

I really feel like Bioware did a cash grab. They made something they knew was powerful. Got people to talk about it, and bring other people in, got their money. And then removed it to please whatever a-holes were ************ in the first place.

 

It worked, they got me. Shouldve know.

[Ghisallo]

Ask Ghisallo. He's all up in Bioware's junk. He loves this.

 

I don't love it or hate it. If they hadn't changed it I would still play the game. I made no threats about leving or the doom of the game. All I ever said was that it "didn't feel right" and that something was off with the companions. The contents of Eric's reasons for the change only proved my feeling to be correct, the change was not made because of me or any other player raisingthe concern.

 

The fact you have to resort to ad hominems says a lot about the quality of the arguments you have to support your opinion though. At best such statements only made the devs look at their logs, so if you are going to firing around ad hominems maybe point them at the devs? It's there ideas, their programming, all someone like me did was say "hey this is OP isn't it?" before the devs said "yep this is OP."

Edited November 18, 2015 by Ghisallo

[jakeobione]

I don't love it or hate it. If they hadn't changed it I would still play the game. I made no threats about leving or the doom of the game. All I ever said was that it "didn't feel right" and that something was off with the companions. The contents of Eric's reasons for the change only proved my feeling to be correct, the change was not made because of me or any other player raisingthe concern.

 

The fact you have to resort to ad hominems says a lot about the quality of the arguments you have to support your opinion though. At best such statements only made the devs look at their logs, so if you are going to firing around ad hominems maybe point them at the devs? It's there ideas, their programming, all someone like me did was say "hey this is OP isn't it?" before the devs said "yep this is OP."

 

Companions still aren't right.

 

There doesn't seem to be a difference between a lvl 1 influence and 50, it's seems to be about 10% difference across all specs. That's garbage for the time investment. The DPS stance is not all that great, never was since 4.0 hit, tank stance is broken at 65 with a bug that will be fixed at some point. Healing is about the only thing the companions did well.

 

Now it seems they are simply some off heals. I guess it's back to dress up doll, but then again, the customization sucks on these new companions.

Edited November 18, 2015 by jakeobione

[Elysith]

I play 22 characters of different classes about equally even If I have favorites. They have finished the original stories, Makeb, Shadow of Revan, and 20 of them are done with the current released story of KOTFE. (2 were in Standby waiting for the Mako conversion bug to be resolved).

 

I've already completed all the 6x Heroic Star Fortress on 6 characters, and few times with guildmates, but most solo + companion.

While it's true running thru the trash of HM SF, was a walk in the park with the companions, the final Exarch bosses were not.

 

I still have 18 characters that requires each the 6x HM SF to unlock the new companions, so that's 96 HM SF that I was happy to do.

After today's update, healing companion sucks with the Exarch fight. I don't even want to try the tank companions who were already messed up defense wise before that last update.

 

Besides HM SF, (or farming the old [Heroic 2] for crates), there is nothing new to do with companions.

So thanks 4.0.2 for messing the time I was looking forward to spend in the new KOTFE contents with my faithful companions, when I'm not running Operations and such.

[FerreusSteelTip]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides. Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire.

 

In KotFE, with a large focus on going back to story, we wanted to make sure that all of our story content was accessible to all of our players. The power that Companions bring to the table, definitely played a part in that accessibility. Companions, from a combat perspective, should complement and provide support to your character, not overshadow them. However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion. Although this can be fun for a time, this wasn’t our goal. Companions should be strong, they should fill any role you need, but they should not make your actual gameplay be overshadowed by how strong they are.

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

• There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging.
  
• Healing power increase by Influence level has been increased. That means that as you scale up Influence levels with a Companion they will get more powerful per level than before. This helps to offset the base healing reduction a bit as you gain influence with your companion.
  

 

We did want to make some improvements to tanking Companions:

• We increased the threat generated by tank companions, so they should be able to hold the attention of enemy NPCs better than before.
  
• We fixed an issue involving the tank companion’s mass grapple ability, it will no longer pull in enemies that are out of combat.
  

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Here's the thing. I have Senya to influence rank 23. Before this patch, her big heal would heal me for 17-19k. Now it heals me between 3k - 5k

Her channeled, spammable heal would heal me before the patch between 5k - 7k a tick. Now, it's between 900 and 1,400

seriously....

You realize we have 70k+ HP now? And that mobs will hit us for far more than 900 a tick can cover haha.

You're trying to sell companions in the cartel packs, yeah? Want people to spend the time to recruit companions. Want heroic content to be accessible to those wishing to solo, etc etc etc

Well with the companions CURRENT performance, any class without self heals and full heroic moments, lightside and darkside skills. ALL OF THAT. They will struggle to do even the story lol. Which IS solo only

 

You nerfed a 19k heal down to 3k lmao

wow

 

I am a very critical person. I hold companies accountable for their actions. Today many people were unable to log in ALL day....due to a broken patch. And I do mean broken, in every since of the word. As this patch's nerf to companions was far too much.

You impressed me enough with KoTFE to comeback. That was an accomplishment, because I was never coming back. You had disappointed me so much in the past, that - after 3 years subbed, dropped $100+ a month on cartel packs; I left. For almost a year I was gone. Then KoTFE brought me back and, in turn, I have brought others back.

Convinced people even more soured on the game than me to come back.

They will not stay if you continue to do what you're doing.

 

This consumer's demands: (and they're not unreasonable)

 

1) Credit all active subscribers 1 day on their subscription for not being able to play for the majority of today. Not asking for much, just an acknowledgment that you messed up and want us happy.

 

2) Companions were too overpowered. But now, they may as well be pets. The math guys can figure the percentages out, but - the big heal should at 0 influence = about 5k -7k. At rank 10, it should be between 8k and 10k

and go up as the ranks do till it tops out at where it was at 19k ish

And same goes for all the heals and dps. Fix the percentage to where the companions are useful. This is such a ridiculous nerf, I'm sure you'll undo it anyways. Because NO ONE is going to be happy with 900 tick heals at lvl 65

My commando in PvP gear does 3k a tick with their kolto shot haha

 

3) You claimed there would be consequences to choices made in the story. So far, there haven't been any. No matter what you choose, Lana lives. No matter what you choose, HK - 55 dies. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming consequences will be felt in the later chapters.

However, if there aren't. I will report the game for false advertisement. And I'm not all talk. I just fixed my internet connect by going through the FCC. I'm tired of companies not living up to their promises. And one of the main reasons I came back and am staying is the story, which I love so far. If I find I paid a sub from October to July, and the story be no more than cosmetic choices. I will not only unsub, but make sure everyone knows the false advertisement. Not a threat, just a promise.

So far, you are doing great with the story. I am only disappointed in the lack of consequences to actions. Makes every choice seem pointless.

 

Lastly, the Nico companion. You offered that to subscribers in what, July? Do you know how many subscribers just came back, and had no idea about that offer?

If it were purely a cosmetic item, no one would care. But we who weren't subscriber in July. And those who are new to the game. We're being denied story content, no matter how small - and that is unacceptable. I doubt you will go back and offer the Nico companion to people after you made such a big deal about it being a subscriber reward. So what I'm asking is that you don't willingly create a scenario where ANYONE is denied story content again.

Give out cosmetic rewards like you are used to doing. Just make them something people actually want....instead of that Lucky 7 speeder.

 

I would advise everyone else to submit their consumer demands as well. It is your right as paying customers to voice your opinion.

Though I would try an stress to make any want/request reasonable. They're more likely to pay attention to it then.

[WhatsUrprblm]

Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t yet seen the 4.0.2 patch notes, you can view them here. There are some patch notes that we wanted to highlight and talk about specifically.

 

• Companion base stats have been reduced.
  
• Companion damage and healing output has been reduced.
  

 

Some of you will certainly ask, why the need to nerf Companions? This is something that we definitely saw the community be divided on, and it was good for us to hear feedback from both sides. Ultimately, this decision came down to our own goals for Companions, along with data on how they were performing. What we saw in those instances is that Companions, simply put, were just way too good. Their healing and damage output could be greater than that of a very skilled player with a fully maximized character. In order for you to understand why we are making these changes, we thought it best to explain our goals for Companions in Fallen Empire.

 

In KotFE, with a large focus on going back to story, we wanted to make sure that all of our story content was accessible to all of our players. The power that Companions bring to the table, definitely played a part in that accessibility. Companions, from a combat perspective, should complement and provide support to your character, not overshadow them. However, in looking at how strong Companions are, we may have gone a bit too far in that direction. Simply put, while playing through much of the game, there are a lot of situations in regular combat where it is practically impossible for you to be killed if you have a healing Companion. Although this can be fun for a time, this wasn’t our goal. Companions should be strong, they should fill any role you need, but they should not make your actual gameplay be overshadowed by how strong they are.

 

So with 4.0.2 we have brought their effectiveness down quite a bit, let’s talk about some of the specifics here:

• There isn’t a flat % that healing was reduced by. Effectiveness reduction varies greatly depending on level, Influence, level sync, etc. That being said, the healer companions are still quite competitive, but they no longer trivialize content that was meant to be challenging.
  
• Healing power increase by Influence level has been increased. That means that as you scale up Influence levels with a Companion they will get more powerful per level than before. This helps to offset the base healing reduction a bit as you gain influence with your companion.
  

 

We did want to make some improvements to tanking Companions:

• We increased the threat generated by tank companions, so they should be able to hold the attention of enemy NPCs better than before.
  
• We fixed an issue involving the tank companion’s mass grapple ability, it will no longer pull in enemies that are out of combat.
  

 

Will your Companions feel a bit weaker than they did when KotFE launched? Yes. But believe me they will still carry their weight and fill the role you need them to in combat. All that we ask is that you log in tomorrow, and check the changes yourself. Play around with the Companions in each role and let us know your feedback. Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

There is an easier way.

JUST ROLL BACK ALL OF THAT TO WHERE IT WAS BEFORE 4.0!

Otherwise its completly uneusefull.

If they cant take advantage of the gear you give em, Its just another canonfodder toon.

AND PLEASE GET RID OF BITRAIDER!

That thing is what causes all of us trouble with your recent patch.

I cant play at all, because the Launcher still wont download teh patch correctly. And i did took your advise withe folder deletion. No use at all.

Edited November 18, 2015 by WhatsUrprblm

[jakler]

GG, EAWare. I guess you don't like having better subscriber numbers.

[Darkbloom]

Hope to provide more feedback on companions later, but for now:

 

THANK YOU for fixing the "no armor" bug in this patch! If you hadn't done that you would have had a disaster on your hands.

 

Everything formerly soloable is still soloable, including heroic star fortress. The big differences now:

 

1. Companions do not die immediately if they get aggro, since they now have actual armor and damage reduction.

 

2. Tank companions are viable.

 

3. Dps companions still hit very hard, but running with 2 dps I do notice killing stuff is slower.

 

4. Heal companions are not God-Mode any more. You have to move out of stuff on Heroic Star Fortress, use your CC's, use your DC's, and use self heals if you have them.

 

Right now the biggest piece of feedback I have for Bioware is on the healing companion:

 

It's that channeled, no-cooldown heal that used to be the big problem. You've massively nerfed it, which I expected. However, it seems that too often the companion is not using that ability when they should be using it. They should spam it when other heals are on cooldown.

 

Other than that, this nerf was NOWHERE near as bad as I thought it would be. And it really is nice that tanks don't just die pitifully any more.