Commando / Merc classes are utter sh*t for PvP

[DsevenO]

If you're hoping that mercs will be balanced at some point, forget it. If you don't like the way they play now, roll another class. The game is already old and it will close down as an enterprise long before the merc class is balanced (or pvp in general is balanced).

 

TL.DR Mercs will never be buffed (and sorcs will never be nerfed). Time to take our cash elsewhere.

[LadyDarkkitten]

I see plenty of mercs doing well in wzs. the key point is don't be alone. If your running around by yourself yr going to get wrecked, but the same is true for alot of classes. The issue your having is your looking at the class in isolation, in a bubble and yes if yr solo defending in voidstar your screwed. So is a madness sorc though, first melee that comes along and finds them.

 

In reality I get better results playing my two troopers then I get with my madness sorc. Maybe its because I get targeted more on the sorc? I certainly find it annoying when 4 of us are stood at north in the new wz the 3 jumpers all leap on me and nuke me down in a stun lock. Ofc pug teams so none of my team mates bother to taunt cc or heal me. That DOESNT happen to me on the troopers. It happens all the time on the sorc.

[TUXs]

In reality I get better results playing my two troopers then I get with my madness sorc. Maybe its because I get targeted more on the sorc?

No, it's because you're either lying or bad. Get more familiar with Sorc/Sage and then come back here...they don't compare.

[Raideen]

I see plenty of mercs doing well in wzs. the key point is don't be alone. If your running around by yourself yr going to get wrecked, but the same is true for alot of classes. The issue your having is your looking at the class in isolation, in a bubble and yes if yr solo defending in voidstar your screwed. So is a madness sorc though, first melee that comes along and finds them.

 

In reality I get better results playing my two troopers then I get with my madness sorc. Maybe its because I get targeted more on the sorc? I certainly find it annoying when 4 of us are stood at north in the new wz the 3 jumpers all leap on me and nuke me down in a stun lock. Ofc pug teams so none of my team mates bother to taunt cc or heal me. That DOESNT happen to me on the troopers. It happens all the time on the sorc.

 

I agree with Tux. I get on my sorc from my merc and my survivability triples. I can heal harder, faster, more mobility and do enough damage to wreck people.

 

I can't even compare my madness sorc to my merc....the sorc is soooo much better its not even funny.

[DsevenO]

The survivability and damage output of a sorc vs. a merc is laughably disparate. Anyone who tries to convince you otherwise is either deluded or has constant heal support. All things being equal, a dps sorc with healing support vs. a merc with healing support is still a disparity that can only be measured in light years. Put whatever spin you want on it, mercs are horribly, horribly underpowered and sorcs are arguably a god class.

 

Edit: Oh, and if you want to put this theory to the test (like it needs testing) put a madness sorc with nothing but 204 unaugmented gear against a fully 208 geared, fully augmented, fully optimized arsenal merc in a 1 v 1. I can already tell you what the results will be 100 percent of the time, but please, do find out for yourselves.

Edited April 12, 2016 by DsevenO

[Ed-ward]

Edit: Oh, and if you want to put this theory to the test (like it needs testing) put a madness sorc with nothing but 204 unaugmented gear against a fully 208 geared, fully augmented, fully optimized arsenal merc in a 1 v 1. I can already tell you what the results will be 100 percent of the time, but please, do find out for yourselves.

 

I don’t want to flame here, but it’s the merc that should win in open.

Unfortunately I just lost a VERY long post I wanted to contribute here with, describing tips and tricks.

Sage should win if ha can LoS, merc should win in open.

 

If you are on ToFN EU or you can transfer, I’ll be very glad to prove this in a couple of friendly duels. Btw on my unoptimized pyro merc I can single handedly burn sorcerer healers - pyro burst, if set up properly, is devastating.

 

Try playing with a friend who can back you up. If you repay in kind you’ll both have a great time. 2 mercenaries in tandem can ve devastating indeed.

 

Oh and apart from 1vs1 mercs ARE a trash class to play PvP. :-)

[LadyDarkkitten]

I agree with Tux. I get on my sorc from my merc and my survivability triples. I can heal harder, faster, more mobility and do enough damage to wreck people.

 

I can't even compare my madness sorc to my merc....the sorc is soooo much better its not even funny.

 

Weird how our experiences are so different. Still I'll admit I'm not a good sorc. I regularly do less damage by alot then other madness sorcs (but alot more healing: I tend to off heal alot and regularly save people from dying. not that it ever gets an mvp vote ), die more and get less kills. I find on either though you can't heal through incoming dps. I lose if I stop to heal as in the cast time of the heal I'll take more incoming damage then the heal and I just lose ground on the dps race. Thats true for trooper and sorc.

 

Thats my point about postioning, team work and not being alone. Alone I die. being out front means I die. lurking up at a gangway dot spreading or putting 3 gravs rounds followed by a demo round into that oblivious jug whose trying to ravage a sentinel? profit.

 

Maybe this explains the differences in our experiences? on my sorc I get hunted down and killed. ALOT. On my troopers I don't.

 

Lastly I feel very confident that if you cloned me and put me in a 1v1 4v4 or 8v8 madness against troopy, my troopy would win on each. oh and Force speed doesn't compare to hold the line.

Edited April 12, 2016 by LadyDarkkitten

[LadyDarkkitten]

 

Try playing with a friend who can back you up. If you repay in kind you’ll both have a great time. 2 mercenaries in tandem can be devastating indeed.

 

 

See thats what I was TRYING to say running round with a trooper and a gunslinger in a litttle huddle knock backing anyone who gets near us and just nuking people who don't get out of our way fast enough.

[Ed-ward]

See thats what I was TRYING to say running round with a trooper and a gunslinger in a litttle huddle knock backing anyone who gets near us and just nuking people who don't get out of our way fast enough.

 

We have had SO much fun running in burst merc + burst sniper combo. Net at 50% synced via TS with fully loaded Ambush and Heatseeker. LOOOOOOL ...SO much fun. Sages were just insta-evaporated ...good times XDDDDDDD

[DsevenO]

We have had SO much fun running in burst merc + burst sniper combo. Net at 50% synced via TS with fully loaded Ambush and Heatseeker. LOOOOOOL ...SO much fun. Sages were just insta-evaporated ...good times XDDDDDDD

 

That does sound like fun. I wish I was two people so that I could run two classes simultaneously and have a chance at beating a lone sorcerer

[Floplag]

I know at least twice as much about playing a merc and i do a sorc, but when ive tested recently on a sorc ive put up higher numbers with far less effort.

Im not saying im all that at either class, but i absolutely know more about merc than sorc and gave it a fair tests and was amazed how much easier it was and was literally upset at myself if i died cause i messed up most of the time whereas i kinda just accept it on the Merc as inevitable.

There is no comparison, not even close, between the 2 classes aside from both being ranged hyribds in theory.. but in practice one has every possible advantage to the other.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Floplag

[LadyDarkkitten]

That does sound like fun. I wish I was two people so that I could run two classes simultaneously and have a chance at beating a lone sorcerer

 

err you get a 2nd person in every wz just don't run off by yourself. couple of hours ago I queued into an arena with 3 troopers on my shadow. 3! we went against a mixed up imp team, they had a conceal op and dps sorc (think it was lighting cos it kept hard casting stuff) a jug and a mara. We absolutly took them apart. I peeled I knockbacked I taunted (highest protection numbers yo! don't think their jug knew to taunt).

 

It totally demonstrated the power of ranged classes when they cover each other and look out for one another. I wish I had fraps it so I could show you guys just what I'm talking about.

 

As for your differing results on the sorc I don't know what to say to you. I believe you I just don't understand why our experiences are so different.

[DsevenO]

err you get a 2nd person in every wz just don't run off by yourself. couple of hours ago I queued into an arena with 3 troopers on my shadow. 3! we went against a mixed up imp team, they had a conceal op and dps sorc (think it was lighting cos it kept hard casting stuff) a jug and a mara. We absolutly took them apart. I peeled I knockbacked I taunted (highest protection numbers yo! don't think their jug knew to taunt).

 

It totally demonstrated the power of ranged classes when they cover each other and look out for one another. I wish I had fraps it so I could show you guys just what I'm talking about.

 

As for your differing results on the sorc I don't know what to say to you. I believe you I just don't understand why our experiences are so different.

 

Wait, you showed the power of the commando class...by playing your shadow? It's nice that your commando team mates had the benefit of the second most over powered class in the game and that you came up against some scrubs, but this tells us precisely nothing about the commando/merc class.

 

And the fact that you seem to think that mercs are fine "because other people in warzone" doesn't constitute a valid argument. You previously cited an example where you clearly outnumbered an enemy 2 to 1 and thereby showed how mercs can "destroy" sorcs. That logic backfires drastically when you even the odds or have the odds turned against you (as inevitably happens in a wz).

 

Any collective is equal to the sum of its parts, and any collective that has a sum of classes minus any mercs is infinitely better than a collective that has a sum that includes even one merc dps in its ranks (assuming the individual players know *** they are doing).

Edited April 12, 2016 by DsevenO

[TUXs]

err you get a 2nd person in every wz just don't run off by yourself. couple of hours ago I queued into an arena with 3 troopers on my shadow.

Yeah, maybe we should listen to you because you played an arena with 3 Troopers while you were on your Shadow....that makes sense right?!

 

Everyone can run into a scrub team now and then where they can win...but equally matched players will perform FAR better on a Sorc/Sage than they will on a mando.

[LadyDarkkitten]

Yeah... your not listening. It wasn't one commando that did it. It was three overwatching and catching the enemy in their crossfire. I can see I'm not having any impact on your group think though. So I'll leave you guys alone to your echo chamber.

[DsevenO]

Yeah... your not listening. It wasn't one commando that did it. It was three overwatching and catching the enemy in their crossfire. I can see I'm not having any impact on your group think though. So I'll leave you guys alone to your echo chamber.

 

Having a reasoned opinion that differs from yours = group think. You must be a millennial. Next we'll be racists.

 

The fact that your precious commandos were "overwatching" while not being systematically focused and destroyed speaks to the ineptitude of your opponents, not the quality of your team. Taunt, peel, cc until you're blue in the face, those abilities all have cooldowns. Any competent group would have decimated you in short order.

Edited April 12, 2016 by DsevenO

[KashyyykForest]

If I'm solo q'ing wz I have a blast on my commando. Ranged+Self heals is big plus in that environment. Arenas though ehh, not my favorite thing for a pug mando. I try to hang out near edge of fight near los object. This way if ranged is causing you problems your only a few steps from cover. If a melee is giving chase it quickly turns into a 1v1 if you rocket boost out of the fray...and merc/mando just so happens to be fairly good at those.

[Lalainnia]

Gunnery is perfectly fine bad idea to play medic or IQ for ranked more so medic. Mandos and mercs in general have fundamental iffy dcds and they have to many utility skills that they can't take which are vital to their survival and mobility even energy management .

[DsevenO]

...Arenas though ehh, not my favorite thing for a pug mando. I try to hang out near edge of fight near los object. This way if ranged is causing you problems your only a few steps from cover. If a melee is giving chase it quickly turns into a 1v1 if you rocket boost out of the fray...and merc/mando just so happens to be fairly good at those.

 

(Emphasis mine). There's the problem right there. Anyone who knows anything about the next-to-no-survivability of a merc/commando will instantly latch onto you like white on rice. It will rarely be a 1v1, but rather a 4v1, and even in scenarios where it's 1v1 you have very little chance of survival if both classes have access to full cds. A sorc can survive this kind of onslaught because they have god-bubble (that heals massively when talented) , phase-walk, force speed (talented to root break), a static barrier that heals while it's up (same talent as force barrier), a ranged root (madness) and far superior self-heals (madness especially) while having access to far better sustained damage.

Edited April 13, 2016 by DsevenO

[JouerTue]

the only moment a merc mando is a real threat, is if he nets a sorc the second he was going to teleport/bubble.

regs is fine, but in arenas and especially ranked, it's the type of class going down healed and guarded..and with zero abilities to save him from the focus. any melee can kill the class mostly alone, assuming both have all dcds.

 

i can't take seriously a ranged class with a melee root, come on.

[DsevenO]

i can't take seriously a ranged class with a melee root, come on.

 

I lol'd. One of a litany of supremely unbalanced abilities of the sorc class.

[KashyyykForest]

(Emphasis mine). There's the problem right there. Anyone who knows anything about the next-to-no-survivability of a merc/commando will instantly latch onto you like white on rice. It will rarely be a 1v1, but rather a 4v1, and even in scenarios where it's 1v1 you have very little chance of survival if both classes have access to full cds. A sorc can survive this kind of onslaught because they have god-bubble (that heals massively when talented) , phase-walk, force speed (talented to root break), a static barrier that heals while it's up (same talent as force barrier), a ranged root (madness) and far superior self-heals (madness especially) while having access to far better sustained damage.

 

Yes, what I typed has been the overall majority of my experience on gunnery commando in Warzones(critical to note here, as it seems you might be talking arena environment, from that 3-4v1 comment), summed up. Of course it's anecdotal, but that is all any of us have to offer here.

 

Just because I report a positive play experience on my commando does not mean I am against buffing them.

 

I recognize they have their weaknesses, and have seen more then a few awesome suggestions to improve them in different ways*, primarily in the arena environment where their specific weaknesses are bad weaknesses to have.

 

*Case in point: Seen the suggestion to add a Smoke Grenade power that would make the commando untargetable for several seconds by enemies, similar to force camo of sentinels. This would be a great way to address their need for a focus break type of power in pvp, imo.

 

Other things that could be interesting to see done, virtually all of which I have seen suggested...

 

- Make the 30% aoe and stun reduction trait instead a passive that the base class innately has, to free up space to choose other useful traits.

 

- Similarly, make the trait the prevents leaps/interrupts after using rocket out a passive built into the class.

 

- Add a root effect to the knockback power, this could be added to the skillful trait Afterburners, replacing the portion of the trait that makes the knockback simply more powerful. A root would be way more useful imo, as it could prevent leaps, etc.

 

Not saying to add all that necessarily, but some of it I'd like to see.

[DsevenO]

Yes, what I typed has been the overall majority of my experience on gunnery commando in Warzones(critical to note here, as it seems you might be talking arena environment, from that 3-4v1 comment), summed up. Of course it's anecdotal, but that is all any of us have to offer here.

 

Just because I report a positive play experience on my commando does not mean I am against buffing them.

 

I recognize they have their weaknesses, and have seen more then a few awesome suggestions to improve them in different ways*, primarily in the arena environment where their specific weaknesses are bad weaknesses to have.

 

*Case in point: Seen the suggestion to add a Smoke Grenade power that would make the commando untargetable for several seconds by enemies, similar to force camo of sentinels. This would be a great way to address their need for a focus break type of power in pvp, imo.

 

Other things that could be interesting to see done, virtually all of which I have seen suggested...

 

- Make the 30% aoe and stun reduction trait instead a passive that the base class innately has, to free up space to choose other useful traits.

 

- Similarly, make the trait the prevents leaps/interrupts after using rocket out a passive built into the class.

 

- Add a root effect to the knockback power, this could be added to the skillful trait Afterburners, replacing the portion of the trait that makes the knockback simply more powerful. A root would be way more useful imo, as it could prevent leaps, etc.

 

Not saying to add all that necessarily, but some of it I'd like to see.

 

That all sounds well within reason. Given all those utilities (and that would just be a starting off point), we might live long enough to contribute to matches (ranked in particular).

[toomanyluigis]

i can't take seriously a ranged class with a melee root, come on.

 

that root used to be a second knocback pre 1.4...

 

bring it back devs or make powershot/priming shot root once evy 15 seconds instead.

[Floplag]

that root used to be a second knocback pre 1.4...

 

bring it back devs or make powershot/priming shot root once evy 15 seconds instead.

 

The utter hilarity is that we have this a melee root to hold people where we dont want tham, and sins have lolslash at 30M.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Floplag