Zem_ Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Pre 4.0: "Please get rid of level sync even before it goes live because we want to faceroll everything and feel invincible". Post 4.0: "Please nerf companions because even though we are level synced they are too strong and we faceroll everything and feel invincible". Except it's not the same people making both complaints, genius. I think Level-Sync is awesome! I think companions are too powerful. See how that works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem_ Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 The more important thing to point out to people in these topics is this: Be careful what you wish for. That's why I am careful to point out (repeatedly) that I am asking for an OPTIONAL slider that simply scales back companion effectiveness by some fraction. Leave it set at one and nothing changes from where it is now. No risk. I am essentially asking for the ability to select my OWN nerf level. I'm not really asking for changes to level scaling. Yeah, it's probably a bit more complicated than companion scaling, but fortunately they'd both accomplish similar goals (at least in terms of soloing, which is what I care about), so we can stick with companion scaling. I'll let someone else carry the banner for level-scaling reform. I'm actually fine with the way it works now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeKoCZ Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Except it's not the same people making both complaints, genius. I think Level-Sync is awesome! I think companions are too powerful. See how that works? It doesn't matter, people always find something to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoutou Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Healer companions make anyone with a bit of snap invincible for most of the single player content. Personally I do dismiss my companion some. And certainly the absurd droid in solo flashpoints. If you got something, anything at all for fighting sans companion....new titles, better rewards...really *anything* at all other than personal satisfaction? I predict the whole problem would solve itself. People who want a challenge would ditch the companion and rock. Right now after an hour or so of said rocking I think most reasonable folks start asking themselves, hmmm, I'm not getting anything for this - am I simply a masochist? And summon the darned companion back and just chew through stuff. Personal failing? Human nature. I've been asking since one of the first builds to simply give an XP bonus with no companion. But they are so invested in companions that the idea of incentivizing putting them away, for any reason is going nowhere. So we are back where we started. You dismiss the silly crutch here and there. You smell dinner cooking, you summon it to get on through the darn mission and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtaxDarkmane Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 As I have said before I have no problem with the idea of being able to reduce the power of your companions on your own. I am against it being a universal nerf as I see no reason for it. Most importantly I think actually implementing your original idea isn't as simple as you think it is. Only the programmers will know so unless I hear otherwise I will continue to think so. I am a programmer and I have edited a lot of old programs, and sometimes initial design considerations make the seemingly simple nearly impossible without a ground up redesign. I am actually impressed with how they have modified the game over the past few years, and I am looking forward to what they have next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbassman Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 You want a challenge? Try soloing a Star Fortress as a Marauder with an Akk Dog healing you, its been an interesting experience to say the least (My other run through was with a sin tank/healer comp, now that was a lot easier, but still had moments with the Exarchs) Again, this is the all or nothing approach. I enjoy having a companion, but not one that can play without me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoutou Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I am against it being a universal nerf as I see no reason for it. Most importantly I think actually implementing your original idea isn't as simple as you think it is. Again, a healer companion makes the majority of the single player content trivial and the player pretty well invincible. Reread that sentence. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Again, this is the all or nothing approach. I enjoy having a companion, but not one that can play without me. And therefor, despite already having control of your personal gameplay, instead of exercising that control you want to force what you want on everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Again, a healer companion makes the majority of the single player content trivial and the player pretty well invincible. Reread that sentence. Again. If you don't like that don't use a healer companion. Reread that sentence. Again. You have options, instead of trying to take options away form other players, exercise your options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoutou Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 So you actually believe that a trivial game is worth agitating for? People are strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem_ Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I am a programmer and I have edited a lot of old programs, and sometimes initial design considerations make the seemingly simple nearly impossible without a ground up redesign. Skepticism is a fine thing, but you have to temper it with a bit of reason or you'll have to make this same point in every thread in this suggestion forum. The change I am asking for is orders of magnitude LESS complex than the change they just successfully made to the way companions work. So the code can't be quite that brittle just yet. The companion strength scaling mechanic is already in the game. What I am talking about is a tweak. Literally, one more term in an equation that must already exist. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethMyst Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Skepticism is a fine thing, but you have to temper it with a bit of reason or you'll have to make this same point in every thread in this suggestion forum. The change I am asking for is orders of magnitude LESS complex than the change they just successfully made to the way companions work. So the code can't be quite that brittle just yet. The companion strength scaling mechanic is already in the game. What I am talking about is a tweak. Literally, one more term in an equation that must already exist. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Something tells me no one listened to my original comment. Ultimately, this is design philosophy. If Bioware wants to make a relatively easy game, than give you a giant middle finger in the endgame, sign me up. Believe me, none of the overpowered companions will save you from running group flashpoints/operations. Hard Mode Flashpoints cannot be soloed. Period. I learned that the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Something tells me no one listened to my original comment. Ultimately, this is design philosophy. If Bioware wants to make a relatively easy game, than give you a giant middle finger in the endgame, sign me up. Believe me, none of the overpowered companions will save you from running group flashpoints/operations. Hard Mode Flashpoints cannot be soloed. Period. I learned that the hard way. That's pretty much my stance the people screaming for more challenge will get it with FPs and OPs where you wont have those companions to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethMyst Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 That's pretty much my stance the people screaming for more challenge will get it with FPs and OPs where you wont have those companions to help you. Not just that. Even Tactical Flashpoints cannot be soloed, even with a companion at hand. I tested that theory trying to solo a Tactical Battle of Ilum. I started wiping on the third boss, eventually realizing that it would have been pretty much impossible. Also, even the easiest of Operations incredibly hard for your typical player (the one I'm talking about is the Lair of the Eyeless, which only has a single boss. We wiped the first time, and I asked for hints the second time. It was a pushover afterwards). Saying the companions are overpowered is relative. In solo, yeah, I can see that. In group content, a pointless argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zem_ Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Believe me, none of the overpowered companions will save you from running group flashpoints/operations. Hard Mode Flashpoints cannot be soloed. Period. I learned that the hard way. I imagine they can't do my taxes for me either... or any number of other things I never claimed they could do. I'm talking about a companion difficulty slider here. One YOU don't have to use. So congratulations on liking the easy solo mode. I'm not asking anyone to take it away from you. This only affects people who use it and it only affects content you're going to typically run solo with your companion. I honestly have no idea how hard a group hard mode flashpoint is and I may never find out if I cancel my sub (again) because the solo game bored me to tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GythralSWTOR Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 (edited) Who cares? Come Tues you'll all be whinging they are to weak , why has EA wasted time on this rather than fixing bugs... But that's fora for you Edited November 15, 2015 by GythralSWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Who cares? Come Tues you'll all be whinging they are to weak , why has EA wasted time on this rather than fixing bugs... But that's fora for you Pretty much how I see it going. The people complaining that the comps are op will find out that BW has no middle ground when it comes to nerfing and those OP comps are now going to be so weak that they become worthless and they will come back to the forums complaining that comps are to weak while demanding that BW buff the comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFell Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I don't really understand your argument, Anaesha. The game isn't challenging, and the basis of your argument seems to be that you don't want developers to shift the game from "utter faceroll" down to "E-Z Mode." There are some definite problems with Companion strength, and regardless of whether you prefer Utter Faceroll or EZ Mode, they're going to need to look at balance. If we're looking at game balance, why does Challenging Enough to be Interesting have to be off the table, anyways? But, in any case, there are some specific problems with Companions... and I mean above and beyond the fact that my well-geared Tank character has 74K health, and my Healer Companion has 88K health... which is kinda ludicrous. 1) In the Sith Warrior Story, at one point the player must battle their companion. However, the companion is still about as powerful as an enemy as that companion would be as a helper... making this an almost unbeatable encounter. 2)Right now, it is primarily Companions in the Healing Role that are over-powered. Playing with a Companion in a different role does not produce the same results. Doing the Rakghoul Heroic, we found that when my Tank was using a companion shifted to DPS, that companion would instantly draw aggro, and get squashed very quickly... the comp's damage is overpowered, but a DPS companion has no defense to speak of, and therefore no survivability. ...I was also trying to solo a Heroic flashpoint on my Healer. On my Tanks (Companions set to Healing role) no issues. I found that running as a Healer, with a Comp set to Tank role just didn't work; the Tank is not as comparably overpowered as the Healing companion. Quite counter-intuitively, my Healing character ended up running with a Healing Comp. That's not how I like to play; if I'm a Healer, I want my Comp Tanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I don't really understand your argument, Anaesha. The game isn't challenging, and the basis of your argument seems to be that you don't want developers to shift the game from "utter faceroll" down to "E-Z Mode." There are some definite problems with Companion strength, and regardless of whether you prefer Utter Faceroll or EZ Mode, they're going to need to look at balance. If we're looking at game balance, why does Challenging Enough to be Interesting have to be off the table, anyways? The issue is that what is challenging for you and what is challenging for new players are two different things. One of the biggest mistakes anyone can make, be it a dev or a long time player, is to balance a game for themselves. At some point you (or the dev) becomes an expert at it and no longer can use their own experience to balance. What I see a lot of people here really asking, and it is what I hear from you, is "hey devs, make it challenging enough to be interesting for MY skill level". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 (edited) The issue is that what is challenging for you and what is challenging for new players are two different things. One of the biggest mistakes anyone can make, be it a dev or a long time player, is to balance a game for themselves. At some point you (or the dev) becomes an expert at it and no longer can use their own experience to balance. What I see a lot of people here really asking, and it is what I hear from you, is "hey devs, make it challenging enough to be interesting for MY skill level". This^ It ain't about Me, You, or any of the older more experienced players. WE know how to play the game but WE also have a large pool of presence, the ability to raise our comps influence up pretty high from the get go, and other items to help us along but NEW players don't have the things we have. Edited November 16, 2015 by Anaesha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbassman Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 The issue is that what is challenging for you and what is challenging for new players are two different things. One of the biggest mistakes anyone can make, be it a dev or a long time player, is to balance a game for themselves. At some point you (or the dev) becomes an expert at it and no longer can use their own experience to balance. What I see a lot of people here really asking, and it is what I hear from you, is "hey devs, make it challenging enough to be interesting for MY skill level". It has to be challenging for all skill levels. Beginners need to pay their dues like the rest of us did, that is what will make them better. Do you want to go into a flashpoint or Op with players that don't have any skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaesha Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 It has to be challenging for all skill levels. Beginners need to pay their dues like the rest of us did, that is what will make them better. Do you want to go into a flashpoint or Op with players that don't have any skills? We already get that thanks to the insta 60s! so what was your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbassman Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 We already get that thanks to the insta 60s! so what was your point again? I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of that little perk either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SethMyst Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of that little perk either. And the fact that it's around $50 per token. For some, that isn't that much of a discouragement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltorak Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 There are a lot of players who do not want the companions nerfed. J ust because the game is not challenging enough for the ones who have almost perfect gear and know every turn in the game, you have to let us have some advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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