4.0 - PLEASE make Pyro/Plasma better <<< I want to play this spec

[Fallerup]

not to deny anything you say OP, but you are wrong in "assuming" Pyro is the worst. did you even check the charts you yourself provided?

 

Concealment / Scrapper: Gear: 224 = 6.46K dps 220: 6.22K 216: 5.99K

 

Pyrotech / Plasmatech: 224: 6.58K (1200 higher) 220: 6.34K (still 1200 higher) 216: 6.1K (yet again: 1200 higher)

 

as you can see, Concealment is clearly at the bottom. That said, you are correct in "assuming" that things are bad, because second to bottom isn't good either. I just wanted to point out that ther is a difference being worst and second to worst.

[TACeMossie]

not to deny anything you say OP, but you are wrong in "assuming" Pyro is the worst. did you even check the charts you yourself provided?

 

Concealment / Scrapper: Gear: 224 = 6.46K dps 220: 6.22K 216: 5.99K

 

Pyrotech / Plasmatech: 224: 6.58K (1200 higher) 220: 6.34K (still 1200 higher) 216: 6.1K (yet again: 1200 higher)

 

as you can see, Concealment is clearly at the bottom. That said, you are correct in "assuming" that things are bad, because second to bottom isn't good either. I just wanted to point out that ther is a difference being worst and second to worst.

 

When the thread was made, bant had incorrectly used 5% less K/E damage reduction from armor. Due to plasmatech almost completely ignoring armor, it meant other specs were overinflated in the damage they could do.

[Cuiwe]

When the thread was made, bant had incorrectly used 5% less K/E damage reduction from armor. Due to plasmatech almost completely ignoring armor, it meant other specs were overinflated in the damage they could do.

 

And in how much content is that armour ignore actually useful? Especially seeing how PT has smaller numbers than AP. And no, saying that it all comes down to OPs is kinda wrong(this isn't WoW where everything ought to be balanced against the raid numbers).

 

Every spec should be baseline fun and playable. PT is playable(kinda), but it isn't that fun to play is it? THAT is what I'm crusading to get corrected.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Cuiwe

[Eksenia]

Adjust the surge percentage, make two-stacked flame thrower usable on the move (or tie that to a utility) and halve the duration of Scorch while keeping its current damage (atm too weak and keeping track of a 30s dot doesn't flow very well in this spec). Maybe slightly adjust IM also if above changes aren't enough.

 

That would be my suggestion.

[Cuiwe]

Now I intend to post how they should pace the leveling part:

 

( Fire Pulse -> Plasma Barrage -> Hazardous Heat ) -> { Ionized Ignition -> SuperHeated Plasma } -> ShockStrike -> Cell Generator -> Hyper Assault Cell -> [ Heated Tools -> Pulse Generator -> Incendiary Round -> Rain of Fire ] -> | Insulated Augs -> Assault Frame -> Adrenaline Fueled | -> < Plasmatize -> Burnout -> Plasmatic Assault >

 

Legend:

 

( Fire Pulse...Haz.Heat ) -> Fire pulse cycle

{ I.I + SuperHeated } -> Plasma Cell cycle

[ Heated Tools...Rain of Fire ] -> Pulse Cannon cycle

| Augs...Adrenaline | -> Defensive cycle

< Plasmatize...P.Assault > -> Plasmatize cycle

 

See how nice this is compared to live? Let's analyze the live leveling part:

 

ShockStrike -> Ignition -> Tools -> SuperHeated -> Frame -> Incendiary -> Cell Gen -> Augs -> HAC -> Pulse Gen -> F.Pulse -> Rain -> P.Assault -> Adrenaline -> P.Barrage -> Plasmatize -> Burnout -> Heat

 

As you can see, there is NO rhyme, NO reason to live leveling. There aren't cycles / blocks as I nicely designed them. Meaning that adaptational / educational value is MINIMAL. The flow is nonexistant and you get random stuff at random times. Just answer these and you'll see how broken and stupid the live version is:

 

What would you rather get at the level:

 

1. F.Pulse

OR

1. ShockStrike?

2. Barrage

OR

2. Ignition?

3. Heat

OR

3. Tools?

4. Ignition

OR

4. SuperHeated?

5. SuperHeated

OR

5. Frame?

6. ShockStrike

OR

6. Incendiary?

 

7. Cell Gen

7. Cell Gen

 

8. HAC

OR

8. Augs?

9. Tools

OR

9. HAC?

 

10. Pulse Gen

10. Pulse Gen

 

11. Incendiary

OR

11. F.Pulse?

 

12. Rain

12. Rain

 

13. Augs

OR

13. P.Assault?

14. Frame

OR

14. Adrenaline?

15. Adrenaline

OR

15. Barrage?

 

16.Plasmatize

16. Plasmatize

 

17. Burnout

17. Burnout

 

18. P.Assault

OR

18. Heat?

 

Ultimately, I feel like my version would be more fun to play and more fun to experience. It'd also better prepare you for what you are supposed to know in the group content. I really see no downside to my way-not because of vanity or anything, but because it's SO LOGICAL-quite unlike the live version.

[Cempa]

..are you guys estimating Pyro PvP survivability correctly keeping in mind 4.0 change seeing how the 3min CD drops each time you get hit?

 

Pyro to me needs more damage and a stronger snare on flame burst

[Ottoattack]

..are you guys estimating Pyro PvP survivability correctly keeping in mind 4.0 change seeing how the 3min CD drops each time you get hit?

 

Pyro to me needs more damage and a stronger snare on flame burst

 

The survivability with just 2 long CDs is not going to work. And ft snare is already 90%. The only upgrade is to make it root the targets. Regardless the mechanic does not work in PvP and weak in PvE. Just trying to attach more things to a skill that can be easily countered does not help. Even when ft was powerful in 2.0 era it was not prime. Let it die.

[Cuiwe]

The survivability with just 2 long CDs is not going to work. And ft snare is already 90%. The only upgrade is to make it root the targets. Regardless the mechanic does not work in PvP and weak in PvE. Just trying to attach more things to a skill that can be easily countered does not help. Even when ft was powerful in 2.0 era it was not prime. Let it die.

 

I fully agree.

 

Flame / Ion attacks should be a defining point of a PyroTech / PlasmaTech, respectively. The presence of a FT / PC on everything, Mercenary / Commando included!, is just...odd.

 

Not to mention how impractical FT / PC is. The only more impractical skill being Scoundrel / Operative's Blaster Volley / Carbine Burst. But let's not go that deep, shall we?

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

To fix Pyro/Plasma, we need our Surge back. We only have 1 consistent Auto-Crit, and it doesn't even hit that hard. Give us back our 30% Surge, and we will be golden. Also, give us a Stacking DR buff that procs when we DoT tick, stack it up to 5 times for 5s. That will make us much less paper thin compared to AP/Tactics in PvP.

 

Or, make it so that when you have a 2 Stack of SFT we can use Flamethrower on the Move. Also, adding Immolate to Bracer Propellant would be a nice QOL.

 

Edit: Also, a hint for any lingering Pyro Players, you can now use Scorch on an infinite number of targets. There's no more Max Limit of Scorches that can be out.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[Cempa]

For Pyro add this change:

 

Combustion Gas Cylinder reduces movement speed by xx% each time it does damage (When combined with Suppression Tools snare is 50%)

 

Scorch changed to passive and activates any time Combustion Gas Cylinder does damage

 

More Rail Shot procs!!

[Cuiwe]

If we take a simple Pyro and Inn.Ord rotations and apply them:

 

Inn.Ord: 910(Serrated + Incendiary) + 420(CGC + Fusion) + 1850(Unload) = 3180dps

PyroTech: 1200(Scorch + Inc + CGC) + 1366(Prot.Flamethrower) = 2566dps

 

PyroTech / Inn.Ord = 2566dps / 3180dps = 0,80 * 100 = 80% -> 100% - 80% = 20%

 

PyroTech has TWENTY percent LESS damage when taking into account just DoTs and the channeled skill(Flamethrower / Unload). Now, let's compare stuff:

 

CGC = CGC = 249dps

Incendiary = Incendiary = 448dps

(

Serrated Shot = 461dps

Scorch = 536dps

)

{

Unload = 1850dps

Flamethrower = 1366dps

}

Fusion Missile = 180dps

 

( 461dps / 536dps = 86% ) -> Serrated Shot deals 14% less damage than Scorch does

{ 1366dps / 1850dps = 74% } -> Flamethrower deals 26%(!) less damage than Unload does

 

26 - 14 = -12% -> Flamethrower can't keep up with the loss occured on Merc side via Serrated, ergo -12% dps

 

Fusion missile is the final icing on the cake.

 

...Ok one could say that Inn.Ord's rotation is heavily single target oriented, but! Let's compare PyroTech to Engineering then:

 

Series of Shots(Suppresive Fire) + Plasma + Explosive + Interrogation probe(+Cluster Bombs + ERG):

 

1850(SoS){2350 SF} + 883(Plasma) + 703(Int.Probe) + 264(ERG) + 2860(Explosive + Cluster) = 5677{6177}dps

 

This is, again, just taking into consideration the very opener of the rotation. More or less DoTs + a DD move. So, let's compare:

 

SoS = Unload > Flamethrower

Suppresive Fire >> Flamethrower (it's just sad to look at it isn't it?)

ERG > CGC

Int.Probe >> Scorch > Serrated Shot

+Plasma

+Explosive

 

In fact, Engineering deals EVEN MORE damage IF you GO AoE! Let's compare the final numbers:

 

3180 / 5677 = 56% (Inn.Ord vs Engineering)

2566 / 5677 = 45% (PyroTech vs Engineering)

2566 / 6177 = 41% (PyroTech AoE vs Engineering AoE)

 

...lol.

 

Buff Pyro, please? And restore Inn.Ord while you're at it! thanks!

[GhOsTPrOz]

It's crazy. I tested it on Malaphar HM because Plasma used to do way better numbers. The results? Pyro did 6.2 k....not bad, I actually beat out 2 other dps mostly due to gear I think. What did AP do? 8.3k.....calling shenanigans buff pyro, and all the other specs who can't break 6.5k in a parse!

[Ottoattack]

Just posting to keep this thread alive, cuz pyro needs some serious love.

[Saprezzan]

They need to make Superheated Flamethrower hit much harder. As it is, APs get 30 second Death from Above (with 10% increased damage) and Shieldtechs get Firestorm (which screams Pyrotech ability, by the way), which deals more damage and requires no setup. On my char, fully charged Superheated Flamethrower deals 9056 damage and when I look at the Shieldtech tree Firestorm deals staggering 12938 damage.

 

Even if we account for the fact that tanks will use different gear (though most people forgo shield chance anyway), that's a huge difference (nearly 4k damage). And again, it requires no setup, can be used everytime it's off the cooldown (no snare on it though).

[Maudril]

This spec lost me as soon as I found out they removed the CD reset on Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt.

**** anything they do with this spec's numbers. Fix the rotation, then I'll take another look at this horrid spec.

[TACeMossie]

This spec lost me as soon as I found out they removed the CD reset on Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt.

**** anything they do with this spec's numbers. Fix the rotation, then I'll take another look at this horrid spec.

 

The 1.0-2.10 version of pyro was renamed to Advanced Prototype, so go play that

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

What we need is to swap Firestorm and Flaming Fist. Change Flaming Fist to Ion Fist, and keep Shockstrike the same. Then, make Firestorm/Ion Storm be buffed by SHFT. Make SHFT increase the width of the radius of Firestorm (I think it's like 45 degrees right now? someone please check.) or increase the distance to like 12m from 8m or, Snare targets instead of simply slowing by 90%. Increase Scorch and Incend Missile by about 5% damage, and increase Rail Shot by 10%. Also, the new Passive 10% Crit Increase on Immolate is complete crap, If we have an Auto Crit on it, then it's kinda a waste to give us 10% Crit Chance on it... If it was 10% Critical Chance on Burning Targets, then we could start talking.

[Cuiwe]

This spec lost me as soon as I found out they removed the CD reset on Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt.

**** anything they do with this spec's numbers. Fix the rotation, then I'll take another look at this horrid spec.

 

They "lost"(not actually, I love this too much) me when they changed and mutilated Plasma Barrage by removing a trigger move(ShockStrike) from it then by removing a stack of effect(2 -> 1). Ok, why Bioware, why? Not to mention that you should get Pl.Barrage before 32 anyhow because...well, Ion Pulse is PT core. With that change, I'd put Fire Pulse on 10 as well.

 

ffs!

[Saprezzan]

Oh and one more thing: due to the mobility changes in 4.0 Flamethrower is even tougher to land. It really needs major changes.

[Cheetahignition]

I think bw has to make a big change on the pyro/plasma spec. It should be work like the old hybrid pt/vg, maybe they should kick railshot/high impact bolt out of the rotataion and give him a proc for immolate/firepulse. The dots are okay, but give him the third stack on flamethrower/pulse cannon back this nerf was so useless. For everyone who want to see the old rotation klick on the link

[TACeMossie]

I think bw has to make a big change on the pyro/plasma spec. It should be work like the old hybrid pt/vg, maybe they should kick railshot/high impact bolt out of the rotataion and give him a proc for immolate/firepulse. The dots are okay, but give him the third stack on flamethrower/pulse cannon back this nerf was so useless. For everyone who want to see the old rotation klick on the link

 

To be fair, I believe the old hybrid was the original intention when Pyro/Plasmatech was conceived:

 

DoT used every other cycle? Check (Incendiary Missile/Round -> Scorch/Plasmatize)

DoT used every cycle? Check (Retractable Blade/Gut -> Incendiary Missile/Round)

Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon used every cycle? Check

2 Super hard hitting abilities every cycle? Check (Rail Shot/HiB x2 -> Auto Crit Rail Shot/HiB + Immolate/Fire Pulse)

Lots of Flame Burst/Ion Pulse fillers? Check

 

The only thing is it was overperforming early 3.0, so the second free Flame Burst/Ion Pulse was removed, which means a lot more rapid shots uses.

[Cheetahignition]

Yeah maybe but you have no really proc like the old railshotproc and no rocketpunch proc now it costs heat and isnt free and just 2 stacks on flamethrower thats crap i think

[Highallday]

I'd really like to see Pyro's flamethrower replaced with Firestorm. The flame thrower PT Tanks have.

[metaldudie]

I feel ya bro i love my pyrotech its my favourite class to play for me personaly they have to implament the same thing as mercs make it available to them with a utility to channel while moving done. I mean mercs their bolt storm does a scary amount of damage so lets make flamethrower the same way that should fix it.

 

Also if i might add it if you multi dot on everybody in wzs or arenas they have to really watch out for you theyll know soon enough if they dont. It takes practice but you have to target swamp so a healer has such a hard time healing themselves and their team while your running around burning the **** out of everybody

 

Altough what i am afraid of is that if lets say flamethrower becomes a castable while moving it would destroy pvp i think they will become healers nightmares but hey im not against it

Edited December 20, 2015 by metaldudie

[helpmewin]

#nerf pyro

 

IMO this spec need a srs re-balance or re-work.

Edited December 25, 2015 by helpmewin