Restart kotfe chapter 9 story

[nigh_phoenix]

I would happily restart the whole KOTFE story to correct this problem given immersion and NPC relationships are a big part of the game. Please give those of us who have had issues with early-release bugs to begin again with a clean slate.

[Jedi_riches]

Actually I don't think that it's chapter 9 that is the problem, the problem with the bugged romances comes from the fact that there appears to be missing flags when you get to the cantina scene, no amount of resetting chapter 9 will bring back the romance options.

 

It's almost like each patch seems to clear the flags for every time you flirted with Lana so in fact even if a reset was possible I think it would have to be from chapter 3 onwards.

 

I just wish Bioware would figure out why this is happening because for a story heavy based game its thinks like this that lessen peoples enjoyment of it.

 

In fact I am half scared to take any new characters into kotfe that I plan on doing the romance option with Lana as I also hear that exiting on certain chapters has had the same effect meaning I would have to do all of kotfe in a single go, but since I do every quest I come accross to suddenly have a character 'ruined' I have gone to far into the character to restart them.

[SteveTheCynic]

In fact I am half scared to take any new characters into kotfe that I plan on doing the romance option with Lana as I also hear that exiting on certain chapters has had the same effect meaning I would have to do all of kotfe in a single go, but since I do every quest I come accross to suddenly have a character 'ruined' I have gone to far into the character to restart them.

This paragraph half-sounds like you haven't done KotFE at all. There are no random side quests that you come across, so doing "every quest I come across" adds precisely ZERO time to running through KotFE.

 

Or tell me I have mis-read this because (reason)...

[Jedi_riches]

This paragraph half-sounds like you haven't done KotFE at all. There are no random side quests that you come across, so doing "every quest I come across" adds precisely ZERO time to running through KotFE.

 

Or tell me I have mis-read this because (reason)...

 

It was badly worded sorry, I do all the sidequests in the original stories which mean there is quite a lot of effort that goes into raising all my characters prior to kotfe and it's that effort that I don't want to waste by a botched romance in kotfe.

[SteveTheCynic]

It was badly worded sorry, I do all the sidequests in the original stories which mean there is quite a lot of effort that goes into raising all my characters prior to kotfe and it's that effort that I don't want to waste by a botched romance in kotfe.

Yeah, that would indeed suck badly. I was fortunate in that I actually messed up the cantina flirt conversation myself on the first run through, but that was my freebie insta-60 token that I used to get a dry run before taking any real characters through. I've pushed three real characters through, and did them all "between patches". (Not all three between the *same* patches, mind, just no interruptions by patches.)

[DesertusRatticus]

I would like an option to reset the whole KotFE story (chapters 1-9) as well. My Sage suffers from the bug that erases the romance flags during patches, and has no romance option in chapter 9 despite having having picked all the correct dialogue options and every single [Flirt] option during chapters 1-8 (and an active Lana romance in SoR).

So the only one of my characters for whom I planned the Lana romance from the beginning (all others just kind of... happened ) is also the only one where I cannot lock it in.

 

Replaying chapters 1-9 (without rewards, of course) would save my poor Sage, who otherwise will be stuck at the beginning of chapter 9 for all eternity.

[Slerdnico]

Ouch that sucks. I remember missing the start of the Ashara romance back when she only had one flirt option in her entire story and if you miss that you're friendzoned. I deleted my then level 40 character (my first and only at the time) and started again, just because I wanted that romance storyline that badly. I hope you won't have to but it looks like you might have to. My condolences.

Trust me, that's happened before with my trooper to Aric Jorgan, my bounty hunter to Mako, and countless others.

[Laloxx]

Hi!

 

Given the fact that both KOTFE and KOTET are re-playable now, can you fix your romance with Lana? I made the same mistake back then, and when i I reached Chapter XVI and did not have that "flirt instance" before the Battle of Odessen, I started wondering that if I replay the chapter I can save the Romance with Lana

[Liathan]

I just came back to the game, first time through and right after picking the wrong option and completing the dialogue scene with Lana I was like that's weird... So I find this thread and other's complaining about this and it still appears that over a year later there is no fix for this... I already was dubious about getting ME Andromeda, this just solidified I won't be picking it up anytime soon.

 

Hi!

Given the fact that both KOTFE and KOTET are re-playable now, can you fix your romance with Lana? I made the same mistake back then, and when i I reached Chapter XVI and did not have that "flirt instance" before the Battle of Odessen, I started wondering that if I replay the chapter I can save the Romance with Lana

 

My research indicates the answer is no.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Liathan

[DoctorMajestic]

I have been skipping over the comments and found nothing that could fix this and I even started my own suggestion of this thinking it would be noticed but it never was, you can replay missions but it won't affect your current story. Currently I'm in KOTET and I just went back to redo a random mission and wanted to see if it would change anything in my story but it didn't, what I suggest is when you decide to do a mission that you have already completed and you want to redo it then there should be a message saying "WARNING THIS WILL RESTART YOUR PROGRESS" or something among those lines. Edited May 1, 2017 by DoctorMajestic

[Lunablade]

I don't know why is so hard for the devs to implement into KOTFE and KOTET the option to reset the story flags by replaying the chapters.

 

I just replayed KOTFE on the veteran mode in the hope that I could reset the flag since I messed the romance with Lana on my main character unintentionally in chapter 9 of the KOTFE because that entire scene in the cantina was so confusing for me like it was for many others to , and nothing was indicating there how picking on it the non flirt option will end the romance for my character with her and I romanced her since SOR and through most of KOTFE before. I only managed by doing that to get the flag while I was in the chapter but once it ended it was lost

Edited March 9, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

I don't know why is so hard for the devs to implement into KOTFE and KOTET the option to reset the story flags by replaying the chapters.

 

I just replayed KOTFE on the veteran mode in the hope that I could reset the flag since I messed the romance with Lana on my main character unintentionally in chapter 9 of the KOTFE because that entire scene in the cantina was so confusing for me like it was for many others to , and nothing was indicating there how picking on it the non flirt option will end the romance for my character with her and I romanced her since SOR and through most of KOTFE before. I only managed by doing that to get the flag while I was in the chapter but once it ended it was lost

It isn't about whether it is hard to do from a technical standpoint. (It might be hard, but not all that hard.)

 

The problem is that certain choices have a far-reaching impact on the details of the story. What do you do if someone replays Chapter X after having finished the Gravestone/quantum bomb chapter of KotET? What is the impact on Koth?

 

So it's a structural design thing rather than a technical-implementation problem, and it's likely to be hairier than hairy. If you change the rule to "you can replay in 'can-change' mode ONLY the most-advanced chapter that you have completed", it becomes much less hairy. That would allow people to fumble the Chapter IX cantina conversation and fix it as long as they haven't finished Chapter X. You can't at present avoid *starting* Chapter X, which is why I said "the most-advanced chapter that you have completed." Replaying Chapter IX at that point would drop Chapter X, so any progress would have to be re-done, but really, that's what you should expect.

[Lunablade]

It isn't about whether it is hard to do from a technical standpoint. (It might be hard, but not all that hard.)

 

The problem is that certain choices have a far-reaching impact on the details of the story. What do you do if someone replays Chapter X after having finished the Gravestone/quantum bomb chapter of KotET? What is the impact on Koth?

 

 

Actually I think how replaying the chapters in this game should be like replaying most other RPG-s which also have a lot of choices and consequences ( like Dragon age , Witcher and Mass Effect series ) so that when we start with it we can start from the scratch if we want to ( that should be optional ) and from the original clean world state and not from the world state we made in our last playthrough. Of course to change the things in the story we would need to start replaying the game from the point in which the decisions which bother us were made ( everything else what we did before that would remain the same ) and than after we would make the new ones if we would want for them to have the impact on the later chapters we would need to replay those to.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

Actually I think how replaying the chapters in this game should be like replaying most other RPG-s which also have a lot of choices and consequences ( like Dragon age , Witcher and Mass Effect series ) so that when we start with it we can start from the scratch if we want to ( that should be optional ) and from the original clean world state and not from the world state we made in our last playthrough. Of course to change the things in the story we would need to start replaying the game from the point in which the decisions which bother us were made ( everything else what we did before that would remain the same ) and than after we would make the new ones if we would want for them to have the impact on the later chapters we would need to replay those to.

None of that is compatible with "SWTOR is an MMORPG", except for "start from scratch" which, obviously, corresponds directly to the "Create Character" button that we already have.

 

The reason we can do it with single-player RPGs is that they have "save game" and "load game" buttons where "load game" can load *any* saved game, but that discards *everything* we did after that "old" saved game. MMORPGs don't have those buttons.

 

The problem, ultimately, is because SWTOR is an MMORPG with a more SPRPG(1)-like choiciness, but without the SPRPG-like "undo" buttons, and that causes cognitive dissonance, as it were. It is made worse, of course, by a common tendency to refer to SWTOR as KOTOR3-with-MMO-bits rather than as a Star Wars MMORPG with a KOTOR3-like story embedded in it.

 

(1) Single Player RPG. This implies "save" and "load", which together imply "undo".

[Lunablade]

None of that is compatible with "SWTOR is an MMORPG", except for "start from scratch" which, obviously, corresponds directly to the "Create Character" button that we already have.

 

The reason we can do it with single-player RPGs is that they have "save game" and "load game" buttons where "load game" can load *any* saved game, but that discards *everything* we did after that "old" saved game. MMORPGs don't have those buttons.

 

The problem, ultimately, is because SWTOR is an MMORPG with a more SPRPG(1)-like choiciness, but without the SPRPG-like "undo" buttons, and that causes cognitive dissonance, as it were. It is made worse, of course, by a common tendency to refer to SWTOR as KOTOR3-with-MMO-bits rather than as a Star Wars MMORPG with a KOTOR3-like story embedded in it.

 

(1) Single Player RPG. This implies "save" and "load", which together imply "undo".

 

When I mentioned starting from the scratch here since its an MMO I did mean on the option to replay the chapters of KOTFE and KOTET with their original world states in which we would be able to make the new decisions again which would stick with us like we are playing them for the first time, without trashing our own characters which are geared up and which we care about for. If I just wanted to create a new character I wouldn't at all post here how I support the idea for a story flags reset.

 

Also when we talk about SWTOR we are talking about the game which is fundamentally different from most other MMOS, since the main aspect of this game was always story and everything else for it is just an addition to it. And since we already have in the game the replay function for KOTFE and KOTET entire storylines it shouldn't be that hard to implement on top of that the option for the story flags reset to.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

When I mentioned starting from the scratch here since its an MMO I did mean on the option to replay the chapters of KOTFE and KOTET with their original world states in which we would be able to make the new decisions again which would stick with us like we are playing them for the first time, without trashing our own characters which are geared up and which we care about for. If I just wanted to create a new character I wouldn't at all post here how I support the idea for a story flags reset.

 

Also when we talk about SWTOR we are talking about the game which is fundamentally different from most other MMOS, since the main aspect of this game was always story and everything else for it is just an addition to it. And since we already have in the game the replay function for KOTFE and KOTET entire storylines it shouldn't be that hard to implement on top of that the option for the story flags reset to.

The only *real* story difference between SWTOR and other MMORPGs is that choices you make are slightly more sticky than in other games. Frequently, other MMORPGs don't even have any real choice about what you do. Even GW2, which has more choiciness than many games I've played, has a story that narrows from many choices at character creation time to essentially one story from around level 60, as you start the (first) Battle of Claw Island, and nothing you do thereafter changes anything in the flow of the story, not even in the detailed-difference way that SWTOR has.

 

So no, SWTOR is not fundamentally different from other MMORPGs. It is NOT an SPRPG with MMO features. It is an MMORPG whose story has a limited set of SPRPG-like features.

 

And of course when you "replay" things in an SPRPG, you ***DO*** lose the progress on your character, since you have to load that old game that contains the old state of your character.

 

It may be that I'm ultimately going to end up arguing that allowing us to replay KotFE/ET chapters wasn't really a good idea(1), except that of course we can replay things in other MMORPGs, e.g. GW1 "missions". That said, of course, it's worth noting that a GW1 mission is more like a story-tied (semi-soloable)(2) flashpoint (example: the Tython/Korriban/Manaan/Rakata Prime series) than it is like a "mission" in SWTOR, and we can, indeed, replay flashpoints.

 

(1) In that it creates a set of unreasonable expectations(3) on the part of players.

 

(2) You normally do them as part of a party of 4, 6, or 8 characters, but those characters can be a mix of other players and/or NPC helpers, like the Jesus Droid only less over-powered, and you can run them with *just* NPC helpers alongside your character.

 

(3) It *is* unreasonable to expect to be able to discard part of the things we've advanced(4) but not others.

 

(4) I'm thinking in part of items that can be obtained ONLY by making particular choices. I don't off-hand know of many in KotFE/ET, but it would be a bit weird to have *both* of the items won as a result of a particular choice. What should happen to the companion you didn't kill in KotET Chapter VIII if you go back and play it again and choose differently at that point? Do you end up with both of them? Neither? Just the most recent one?

 

Overall, I'd say that there are way too many hairy weirdnesses lurking in the corners of this one. Let it be. If you want to run through KotFE and see how it turns out if you choose X instead of Y, make a new character and choose X instead of Y.

[Lunablade]

The only *real* story difference between SWTOR and other MMORPGs is that choices you make are slightly more sticky than in other games. Frequently, other MMORPGs don't even have any real choice about what you do. Even GW2, which has more choiciness than many games I've played, has a story that narrows from many choices at character creation time to essentially one story from around level 60, as you start the (first) Battle of Claw Island, and nothing you do thereafter changes anything in the flow of the story, not even in the detailed-difference way that SWTOR has.

 

So no, SWTOR is not fundamentally different from other MMORPGs. It is NOT an SPRPG with MMO features. It is an MMORPG whose story has a limited set of SPRPG-like features.

 

And of course when you "replay" things in an SPRPG, you ***DO*** lose the progress on your character, since you have to load that old game that contains the old state of your character.

 

It may be that I'm ultimately going to end up arguing that allowing us to replay KotFE/ET chapters wasn't really a good idea(1), except that of course we can replay things in other MMORPGs, e.g. GW1 "missions". That said, of course, it's worth noting that a GW1 mission is more like a story-tied (semi-soloable)(2) flashpoint (example: the Tython/Korriban/Manaan/Rakata Prime series) than it is like a "mission" in SWTOR, and we can, indeed, replay flashpoints.

 

(1) In that it creates a set of unreasonable expectations(3) on the part of players.

 

(2) You normally do them as part of a party of 4, 6, or 8 characters, but those characters can be a mix of other players and/or NPC helpers, like the Jesus Droid only less over-powered, and you can run them with *just* NPC helpers alongside your character.

 

(3) It *is* unreasonable to expect to be able to discard part of the things we've advanced(4) but not others.

 

(4) I'm thinking in part of items that can be obtained ONLY by making particular choices. I don't off-hand know of many in KotFE/ET, but it would be a bit weird to have *both* of the items won as a result of a particular choice. What should happen to the companion you didn't kill in KotET Chapter VIII if you go back and play it again and choose differently at that point? Do you end up with both of them? Neither? Just the most recent one?

 

Overall, I'd say that there are way too many hairy weirdnesses lurking in the corners of this one. Let it be. If you want to run through KotFE and see how it turns out if you choose X instead of Y, make a new character and choose X instead of Y.

 

Where to start with this :

 

First, yes SWTOR in my POV is different than other MMOS since I dont know really many which were advertised as a story driven games, and which have unique class based stories for all the classes in the length and with the variety of choices this game does, and with so many cinematics and voice overs like this game. Also its obvious to the many which played this game from the vanilla how most of the development time went into actually storytelling content than into an ordinary MMO activities - operations, flashpoints, warzones. And especially this could be said for the latest expansions KOTFE/ KOTET which had more solo centric content than anything else.

 

But to get back to the topic - You cant know what it is unreasonable and neither can you how hard would be to implement something to the game if you are not in the position of the dev in this game. I do understand that it would be better perhaps if the option for replaying the content was firstly made for the original content and than the later expansions but it wasn't and I'm looking here what could be done with the things which are already implemented into the game and from that aspect what would be easier to implement when it comes to options of doing something like this.

 

Also I'm not asking here for several different world states of the game for a single character but just one which is not unreasonable at all , so everyone would need to decide how they want to have their perfect world state to look like on their character and based on that make the final playthrough in the chapters in which the story flags could be resettable.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

DISCLAIMER: we are definitely in "matter of opinion" territory in this discussion. I apologise for any language that might imply anything definitive in the above discussions.

 

First, yes SWTOR in my POV is different than other MMOS since I dont know really many which were advertised as a story driven games, and which have unique class based stories for all the classes in the length and with the variety of choices this game does, and with so many cinematics and voice overs like this game.

They aren't in my experience different by class, but there are games out there where there are different stories per species instead. In some cases they are close to fully voiced, while others have voiced bits and unvoiced bits, and the others merely have text to tell the story. But of course fully voiced conversations serve, in part, to increase the cost of development since the game company is also paying the voice actors.

 

Oh, and the story in GW2 is very close to fully voiced, although "real" choices are a little thin on the ground, and the visuals for the cinematics are extremely minimalist.

Also its obvious to the many which played this game from the vanilla how most of the development time went into actually storytelling content than into an ordinary MMO activities - operations, flashpoints, warzones.

Correct, and the game suffered heavily because of it, since people came in expecting something else to do after they finished the class and planet stories, and it wasn't there.

But to get back to the topic - You cant know what it is unreasonable

Yes I can, or, rather, you're right, because it's somewhat a matter of opinion. Notice that I didn't say that developing that would be unreasonable, merely that going back for a state-rewriting (i.e. discarding everything storyish that follows) replay AND also expecting that nothing else is rewound/discarded is unreasonable. Bear in mind that much of this conversation is based on an appeal to RPGs that aren't MMO, and in them, the only way to go back and replay something for a different result is to load an old save, and automatically everything about your character is rewound to that point. That is, the rewind is all (you did it) or nothing (you didn't do it).

and neither can you how hard would be to implement something to the game if you are not in the position of the dev in this game.

No, but I didn't say anything about implementing it. I was talking about how I would design such a thing, as seen from the exterior. You know, how it would work for a player, what sort of hairy things you could expect to see, and all that, but seen from the outside.

 

Although I don't work in *game* development, I have worked as a programmer, in a variety of domains, for nearly 30 years now, so I know the sort of things you have to think about when designing software, and I have plenty of experience of thinking about how I'd build something. I leaned on that experience for my analysis.

Also I'm not asking here for several different world states of the game for a single character but just one which is not unreasonable at all , so everyone would need to decide how they want to have their perfect world state to look like on their character and based on that make the final playthrough in the chapters in which the story flags could be resettable.

It's not, as such, unreasonable (maybe), but it is unreasonable to expect them to add in what amounts to an SPRPG-only feature that isn't found in any other MMORPG, and has no real place in MMORPGs either. I know of no feature in MMORPGs that allows you to permanently change a choice you made earlier for a repeatable mission / quest / story element, or at least not if the choice results in impact outside the repeatable content.

 

One final note. One of the recurring complaints in the pre-KotFE game was that our choices didn't matter enough. Now we have people complaining that our choices matter too much, when in fact they don't really matter much at all.

[Lunablade]

No, but I didn't say anything about implementing it. I was talking about how I would design such a thing, as seen from the exterior. You know, how it would work for a player, what sort of hairy things you could expect to see, and all that, but seen from the outside.

 

Although I don't work in *game* development, I have worked as a programmer, in a variety of domains, for nearly 30 years now, so I know the sort of things you have to think about when designing software, and I have plenty of experience of thinking about how I'd build something. I leaned on that experience for my analysis.

 

 

 

- Interesting enough that your opinion about this subject was different just a few years ago - on the page 2 of this particular thread you posted this. Maybe your opinion changed because you made the wrong choice on your alt and not on the character you care more about, so your case on that part is different than the one of the rest of us which got things messed up on our mains :

 

/signed.

 

((Editor's note: I've included option 3 in all the examples. Was there an option 3?))

 

It was as clear as mud. The French localisation has the choices (paraphrased into English):

 

1. I want to talk to one of you.

2. [Flirt] I want to talk to one of you.

3. something else

 

YES: the text was identical apart from the [Flirt] tag.

 

And of course I didn't want to flirt with Theron (he's right there, I'm talking to him, and the choice is not labelled with any indication of who will be talking to me. It's not like the one in Rishi where you can flirt with one or the other of Lana or Theron, and it is clearly labelled as to which one will receive your flirt.), so I picked 1, I think.

 

So, yes, please Mr Bioware, let us redo this because it's your collective fault that it is so unclear.

 

And fix the conversation so it is clear what will happen next, especially if you have been flirting with more than one of them. e.g.

 

1. [Choose one person to talk to, no further romance]

2. [Choose one person to flirt with]

3. Something else.

 

If you're like me, and you have been flirting with only one person (Lana for most of us, I guess, so the example will use her name):

 

1. [Talk to Lana, no romance]

2. [Flirt with Lana]

3. Something else.

 

 

It's not, as such, unreasonable (maybe), but it is unreasonable to expect them to add in what amounts to an SPRPG-only feature that isn't found in any other MMORPG, and has no real place in MMORPGs either. I know of no feature in MMORPGs that allows you to permanently change a choice you made earlier for a repeatable mission / quest / story element, or at least not if the choice results in impact outside the repeatable content.

 

- Again you are comparing here different types of the MMOS which is like comparing apples to oranges , in some others the story and RPG aspect of the game is not nearly as important as in this BW game. This game has just in KOTFE and KOTET 26 chapters of the story alone with the replay function, and with the original class specific stories that makes hours and hours of the story content here which doesn't differ at all from the way how its done in classical BW RPG-s and that's something which a lot of other MMOS don't have. I would also go that far to say how this type of the MMO attract different type of the players mostly from some other MMOS which are made more about some different aspects of the gaming. So yeah taking things in that light just because that some other MMOS which are built in a different way don't have such function doesn't need to mean how it wouldn't be good to have it here.

 

 

One final note. One of the recurring complaints in the pre-KotFE game was that our choices didn't matter enough. Now we have people complaining that our choices matter too much, when in fact they don't really matter much at all.

 

- I don't have anything against having choices which would matter even more in this game but I just think how they should be much better presented so that people would be more aware of the repercussions which would they have. For the most part they are presented in a good way but this one particularly in the chapter 9 of the KOTFE during the cantina conversation was presented poorly, you even stated yourself that in your previous comment in this thread :

 

It's because the warning only pops up if you are about to lock in the romance. There isn't one if you are about to lock *out* the romance. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Edited March 10, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

- Interesting enough that your opinion about this subject was different just a few years ago - on the page 2 of this particular thread you posted this. Maybe your opinion changed because you made the wrong choice on your alt and not on the character you care more about, so your case on that part is different than the one of the rest of us which got things messed up on our mains :

No, that's not why my opinion changed at all. And it's a very weird reason to cite. "You, Mr Cynic, did the thing wrong on a character which ultimately doesn't matter(1), so of course at the time you posted a request to allow a re-do at that time." Noteworthy point: at the time of that post, I had not done the thing on any other character.

 

(1) I don't have mains and alts. I have characters. No one of them is a "main", although I historically played one of them more than others, except when I didn't. The character where I messed it up was one I created so I could look at the content, but it was still a character.

 

At that time, KotFE had been out for a little more than a week, and my statement was a reflection on the immediate impact of a poor design that, at the time, was brand new and therefore very little was known among the players about how it worked. It is now more than two years later, and the weakness of the design is well known, so the need to allow replay is much less(2). We do have a duty, if only to ourselves, to make sure we know about tricks and traps (that is, weaknesses in design) in the games we play, *if* such information is available.

 

(2) On reflection, I would say that the need to allow replay was zero even then. I was wrong about what I said then. There, I admitted it. Does that help?

[Lunablade]

No, that's not why my opinion changed at all. And it's a very weird reason to cite. "You, Mr Cynic, did the thing wrong on a character which ultimately doesn't matter(1), so of course at the time you posted a request to allow a re-do at that time." Noteworthy point: at the time of that post, I had not done the thing on any other character.

 

(1) I don't have mains and alts. I have characters. No one of them is a "main", although I historically played one of them more than others, except when I didn't. The character where I messed it up was one I created so I could look at the content, but it was still a character.

 

At that time, KotFE had been out for a little more than a week, and my statement was a reflection on the immediate impact of a poor design that, at the time, was brand new and therefore very little was known among the players about how it worked. It is now more than two years later, and the weakness of the design is well known, so the need to allow replay is much less(2). We do have a duty, if only to ourselves, to make sure we know about tricks and traps (that is, weaknesses in design) in the games we play, *if* such information is available.

 

(2) On reflection, I would say that the need to allow replay was zero even then. I was wrong about what I said then. There, I admitted it. Does that help?

 

 

Sadly it doesn't and we disagree about this subject. Also not just in this particular MMO but in most others I played I have characters to which I'm more attached to and on which I spend more time playing ( those are usually called by people mains ) and they are more important to me than some other characters I do have but which I play just occasionally.

 

Second - When I did run through the KOTFE for the first time recently I did run in it with my main char which I leveled from level one, for which I did spend quite some time on the char creation since its a togruta character , which I geared up and on which I do have some expensive CM things on, and everything was new for me and unknown just like it was for everyone else on the release.

 

And third - I disagree with your statement how we should look for the spoilers for the game for which is the story such an important part, if we would do that we would take out half of the fun we have with it. BW is the one who is designing it and who is responsible for the way how something is implemented into the game , and important choices in the game should be much clearly presented because that's how good storytelling should be done. Also this problem hasn't been solved by posting the spoilers on the web since a lot of the people still got the characters with a messed up story because of it and there are also the new players which don't like to read the spoilers just like I don't before playing RPG parts of the game for the first time and which get into the same problem.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Lunablade

[SteveTheCynic]

Sadly it doesn't and we disagree about this subject. Also not just in this particular MMO but in most others I played I have characters to which I'm more attached to and on which I spend more time playing ( those are usually called by people mains ) and they are more important to me than some other characters I do have but which I play just occasionally.

I know what "mains and alts" means, and I know that lots of people have one that they consider to be a "main", that is, more important than the others. I was saying that *I* personally don't treat my characters like that in SWTOR.

Second - When I did run through the KOTFE for the first time recently I did run in it with my main char which I leveled from level 1, for which I did spend quite some time on the char creation since its a togruta character , which I geared up and on which I do have some expensive CM things on, and everything was new for me and unknown just like it was for everyone else on the release.

OK, but *when* did you do that run-through? Was it in October 2015, when KotFE was new for everyone, or was it more recently, when it was new for you, but not for everyone else? You say, "recently," so I would say that the issue was well-known by then, so it would be possible to seek hints and tips about mechanical things to avoid (see below).

And third - I disagree with your statement how we should look for the spoilers for the game for which is the story such an important part

I didn't suggest looking for *spoilers*. I suggested looking for "tricks and traps", that is, game-mechanical things that will trip us up if we get them wrong and that are easy to get wrong. An answer which says, "Watch out for the conversation in Chapter IX of KotFE where you get two options that are the same except that one of them is a [Flirt]. It doesn't mean 'flirt with the person you were just talking to'. It does mean 'flirt with someone else you have previously flirted with'," is not a spoiler because it doesn't say who, where, why, etc. about the conversation, just that it is non-obvious what it means, and that one very easy interpretation is *WRONG*.

 

That's the sort of information that I'm talking about. (It's not the only possible example, but it very clearly shows the non-spoiler nature of what I meant.)

[Lunablade]

I know what "mains and alts" means, and I know that lots of people have one that they consider to be a "main", that is, more important than the others. I was saying that *I* personally don't treat my characters like that in SWTOR.

 

Actually in this thread on the page 4 you mentioned this from which could be comprehended how you do, and you did that after you already did messed up the story with some of your char with which you did run that content previously :

 

Fortunately for me, my *main* only just got to that part of KotFE, so she was able to do it right.

 

 

OK, but *when* did you do that run-through? Was it in October 2015, when KotFE was new for everyone, or was it more recently, when it was new for you, but not for everyone else? You say, "recently," so I would say that the issue was well-known by then, so it would be possible to seek hints and tips about mechanical things to avoid (see below).

 

I don't know what you don't understand in the term " recently " , when someone says that its obvious how its not supposed to mean in 2015. But if you really wanna know it was a month ago. Also the issue could be known to the people which are following closely the forums and general posts about this game but to most other people outside of that circle which haven't played KOTFE before it wasn't and I bet how it still isn't, and I was among them.

 

And to end this conversation, yes that scene was designed in a bad and confusing way, with no clear implication what would happen for the people which did not pick one single flirt option in the game, otherwise dozens of threads about this subject wouldn't pop up on the forum and that many people including you wouldn't be mislead by the meaning of it on their first playthrough.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Lunablade

[RussoDomingues]

The year is 2021 and here I am with this problem too. This has an impact on the development of my character, it is not what I wanted, it TOTALLY discouraged me from playing. This reset option does not yet exist right? It needs to be implemented.