Early access - a slap in the face by ea

[Bakakiba]

 

Sure you can make the case of buyer beware, read the fine print and the like. That's not what's at issue, at least I don't believe it is for most, it certainly isn't for me. What's at issue here is that they promoted Early Acccess after it was no longer available and worded it as if it were.

 

It was still available...for those who were subscribers on the earlier dates. And they had to subscribe on the following dates to be eligible as well.

 

Choose to be a subscriber... that is a single action event. Choose is a present tense verb. It instructs one to make a choice. A choice is a single action. Choose to be a subscriber is instructing players to take a single action. Since choose is present tense, it doesn't just suggest the single action is still possible, it outright clearly and openly states the action is still possible.

 

From Aug 10 to Oct 19. That is a time frame, nothing more. It's not in and of itself all inclusive. Buy your ticket today to see Elvis in concert at the Mirage in Las Vegas from Aug 10 to Sep 19!!! It's a single action event and a time frame.

 

You left out the definition of "subscription". A subscription isn't an item. It's something that happens over time. Instead of a Snickers or a ticket, substitute "magazine" or "newspaper".

 

Be a subscriber of our newspaper from Aug. 10 to Oct. 19 to receive a free magazine.

[Master-Nala]

Replying to the bolded, underlined, yellow text first, emphasis mine, people didn't make an inference that turned out to be wrong, they came to the only logical conclusion one could arrive at given the layout and text of the promotion. That text lower on the page contradicts what was said very prominently at the top does not demonstrate that people came to the wrong conclusion.

 

Sure you can make the case of buyer beware, read the fine print and the like. That's not what's at issue, at least I don't believe it is for most, it certainly isn't for me. What's at issue here is that they promoted Early Acccess after it was no longer available and worded it as if it were.

 

Choose to be a subscriber... that is a single action event. Choose is a present tense verb. It instructs one to make a choice. A choice is a single action. Choose to be a subscriber is instructing players to take a single action. Since choose is present tense, it doesn't just suggest the single action is still possible, it outright clearly and openly states the action is still possible.

 

From Aug 10 to Oct 19. That is a time frame, nothing more. It's not in and of itself all inclusive. Buy your ticket today to see Elvis in concert at the Mirage in Las Vegas from Aug 10 to Sep 19!!! It's a single action event and a time frame.

 

Choose to be a subscriber from Aug 10 to Oct 19.... take a single action in this time frame...

 

Of course it could be interpreted differently!!! THAT'S THE PROBLEM. However, it most certain can be interpretted as taking a single action during that time frame. Especially when considering the verb is present tense and early access is on the far right of the time line.

 

We didn't make a mistake when we came to the conclusion that one need only subscribe during that time frame, they made a mistake when they weren't more clear with their promotion. Yes, had we scrolled down and read the part about all four days blah blah blah, then it would have been obvious. Since early access isn't such a big deal, I sure didn't feel like I needed to go searching for fine print! In fact, had I known I wouldn't qualify for early access I would have subbed anyway. For the 12x XP. I just wouldn't have been all excited on the 20th sitting there waiting for the servers to come up only to be frustratingly disappointed when I discovered I wasn't in.

 

Now I've got bunch of people I wouldn't pay minimum wage to bring me coffee calling me stupid because they don't understand how words work. It's pretty ironic considering the topic at hand.

 

You're rationalizing your mistake. The language couldn't be more clear. The line at the top reads:

 

BE A SUBSCRIBER ON THE DATES BELOW TO EARN REWARDS IN-GAME AT LAUNCH*

 

You might note that little asterisk. Which is a clear single that there are conditions and you better read forward to this:

 

*Terms and Conditions

To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PDT//6:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward.

Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail and are redeemable as of the launch of the expansion upon login on October 27, 2015.

To qualify for the Early Access Bonus, you must have qualified for each of the four rewards by being a subscriber on each of the 4 listed reward dates. Once you qualify you may enter and play Knights of the Fallen Empire on October 20, 2015, seven (7) days prior to live launch on October 27, 2015.

 

If you read that as you only needed to subscribe at anytime between August 10 and October 20, the mistake is yours. You could have asked for clarification and the community team would have given it to you. But you didn't do that either it appears.

 

As mistakes go this has a monumentally minor consequence, so I would relax and just wait till next week. Zakuul isn't going anywhere.

[Thunderstriken]

Actually, that one dude, in an attempt to discount something someone else said, actually came up with definitive proof that the promotion was deceptive. Thanks dude, way to go, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

He said that using the word continuous would be fraud because you only had to be a subscriber on the dates of the other perks.

 

B E A U Tiful! You are right dude, the fine print does say you only have to be a subscriber on those certain dates. Therefore from Aug 10 to Oct 19 ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT mean that you had to be a subscriber from Aug 10th through Oct 19th! That means it can only be the single action even I spoke of. I said it could be interpreted one way or the other, but it can't because the terms and conditions specifically rule out the interpretation of it being an all inclusive time frame.

 

Game Over

 

Choose to be a subscriber from Aug 10 to Sep 19 applies to anyone who began a subscription in that time frame.

[Thunderstriken]

You're rationalizing your mistake. The language couldn't be more clear....

If you read that as you only needed to subscribe at anytime between August 10 and October 20, the mistake is yours.

 

Oops, turns out you are wrong, as I just demonstrated. At least this matter is finally settled. You are absolutely definitively and irrefutable wrong. Thanks for playing.

[Bakakiba]

How are you enjoying Early Access?

[MillionsKNives]

the only logical conclusion one could arrive at

 

So you're saying that all those people who understood it correctly, got it right, and are currently enjoying the early access all came to illogical conclusions? But the people who got it wrong came to the correct conclusion? If that's the case then I'd rather be illogical and right than "logical" and wrong any day.

[Master-Nala]

Actually, that one dude, in an attempt to discount something someone else said, actually came up with definitive proof that the promotion was deceptive. Thanks dude, way to go, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

He said that using the word continuous would be fraud because you only had to be a subscriber on the dates of the other perks.

 

It wouldn't be fraud. It would be an inconsistency. Fraud would be where you tell someone to subscribe to get early access with the full knowledge that there is no such thing as early access.

 

B E A U Tiful! You are right dude, the fine print does say you only have to be a subscriber on those certain dates. Therefore from Aug 10 to Oct 19 ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT mean that you had to be a subscriber from Aug 10th through Oct 19th! That means it can only be the single action even I spoke of. I said it could be interpreted one way or the other, but it can't because the terms and conditions specifically rule out the interpretation of it being an all inclusive time frame.

 

Game Over

 

Choose to be a subscriber from Aug 10 to Sep 19 applies to anyone who began a subscription in that time frame.

 

I have a question that I'm hoping you'll answer honestly. It's Friday. You got 3 more days before you'll be able to play. What's your gameplan then? It seems to me that everyone has entrenched their positions. Whatever the merits of your argument it has lost the day. Bioware doesn't seem inclined to let you in prior to Tuesday.

 

Your only option now would be to file a lawsuit for a injunction to force Bioware to let you in. Which would have its own attendant problems in that it's almost 3 p.m. on Friday and most judges wouldn't even be able to hear it prior to Tuesday.

 

So are you just trying to convince yourself you're right? You can't be trying to convince us.

[Thunderstriken]

So you're saying that all those people who understood it correctly, got it right, and are currently enjoying the early access all came to illogical conclusions? But the people who got it wrong came to the correct conclusion? If that's the case then I'd rather be illogical and right than "logical" and wrong any day.

 

Can't argue with that logic.

[xxHellsmokexx]

So I'm neglagent because I subbed every month, and didn't get a promotion because I missed a payment for 1 day?

I'm assuming that giving my own personal feedback and experience isn't tolerated at EA judging by all the *********** one-sided repsonses in this thread.

 

I'm done with all the white knights on this thread brown nosing the mods.

Lock the thread already.

 

"Was that 24 hours one of the 4 days listed? If not then you need to be calling customer service instead of whining on the forums."

 

Yeah, cause EA customer service is perfectly reachable and have a dedicated customer service line. Where you been living under a rock?

 

You aren't going to get any understanding from the fanboys, I agree with you completely. It's not even about the story content, it's about getting my new gear so i can continue to take part in end game content which was all moved up to 65 including pvp. Where can I get lvl 60 pvp gear now? Simple, you can't so not only do we not get early access but we are on punishment as well. Our games are on hold for a week but people don't get it huh? Not surprised.

[Master-Nala]

You aren't going to get any understanding from the fanboys, I agree with you completely. It's not even about the story content, it's about getting my new gear so i can continue to take part in end game content which was all moved up to 65 including pvp. Where can I get lvl 60 pvp gear now? Simple, you can't so not only do we not get early access but we are on punishment as well. Our games are on hold for a week but people don't get it huh? Not surprised.

 

Nothing's stopping you from earning Warzone Commendations. You just can't buy the gear yet. I have 20+ characters in the same boat because I've only hit 65 on 2. Over time, I'll have earned the gear on those other characters. I don't understand the injury you're articulating.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Eldrenath]

Replying to the bolded, underlined, yellow text first, emphasis mine, people didn't make an inference that turned out to be wrong, they came to the only logical conclusion one could arrive at given the layout and text of the promotion. That text lower on the page contradicts what was said very prominently at the top does not demonstrate that people came to the wrong conclusion.

 

Sure you can make the case of buyer beware, read the fine print and the like. That's not what's at issue, at least I don't believe it is for most, it certainly isn't for me. What's at issue here is that they promoted Early Acccess after it was no longer available and worded it as if it were.

 

Choose to be a subscriber... that is a single action event. Choose is a present tense verb. It instructs one to make a choice. A choice is a single action. Choose to be a subscriber is instructing players to take a single action. Since choose is present tense, it doesn't just suggest the single action is still possible, it outright clearly and openly states the action is still possible.

 

From Aug 10 to Oct 19. That is a time frame, nothing more. It's not in and of itself all inclusive. Buy your ticket today to see Elvis in concert at the Mirage in Las Vegas from Aug 10 to Sep 19!!! It's a single action event and a time frame.

 

Choose to be a subscriber from Aug 10 to Oct 19.... take a single action in this time frame...

 

Of course it could be interpreted differently!!! THAT'S THE PROBLEM. However, it most certain can be interpretted as taking a single action during that time frame. Especially when considering the verb is present tense and early access is on the far right of the time line.

 

We didn't make a mistake when we came to the conclusion that one need only subscribe during that time frame, they made a mistake when they weren't more clear with their promotion. Yes, had we scrolled down and read the part about all four days blah blah blah, then it would have been obvious. Since early access isn't such a big deal, I sure didn't feel like I needed to go searching for fine print! In fact, had I known I wouldn't qualify for early access I would have subbed anyway. For the 12x XP. I just wouldn't have been all excited on the 20th sitting there waiting for the servers to come up only to be frustratingly disappointed when I discovered I wasn't in.

 

Now I've got bunch of people I wouldn't pay minimum wage to bring me coffee calling me stupid because they don't understand how words work. It's pretty ironic considering the topic at hand.

 

First of all, at the beginning of your post above you say there is ONLY one logical conclusion based on the advertising:

 

Replying to the bolded, underlined, yellow text first, emphasis mine, people didn't make an inference that turned out to be wrong, they came to the only logical conclusion one could arrive at given the layout and text of the promotion.

 

Then later you say:

 

Choose to be a subscriber from Aug 10 to Oct 19.... take a single action in this time frame...

 

Of course it could be interpreted differently!!! THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

 

So which is it?

 

Second, you criticize others for not understanding language, yet you make a false comparison in verb use. Take your example of buying a ticket to see a concert. That is a one time event to purchase a single use item. The advertising says "choose to be a subscriber", the operative verb being "to be". The principal use of the simple present is to refer to an action or event that takes place habitually, but with the verb "to be" the simple present tense also refers to a present or general state, whether temporary, permanent or habitual. So it COULD mean being a subscriber at SOME point in that period (for example, purchasing a subscription a single time much as one would purchase a ticket to a single concert) or it COULD imply a continued state of being.

 

All in all, I agree with much of what you say, just not all of it. You were disappointed in the fact that you didn't get early access. I respect that, and I absolutely accept that it was an easy mistake to make. To be honest, I don't really even think you made a mistake--it was a logical conclusion based on what you read (a logical conclusion, not the only logical conclusion). However, anyone that read the terms and conditions would have seen an unambiguous explanation. The presence of the asterisk at the top of the page clearly showed there were terms and conditions to be read below. Again, I still think that they should have been more clear in the blurb so as to avoid this situation. But to imply, as you do, that the blurb is 100% wrong is incorrect grammatically and linguistically. There is ambiguity here. The placement of it at the far right does not necessarily mean "timeline", it could also mean "cumulative". You calling it a timeline is from your interpretation of it; nowhere on it does it say it is a timeline. You saw a timeline so treated it as one. It could also be a cumulative implication.

[xxHellsmokexx]

Nothing's stopping you from earning Warzone Commendations. You just can't buy the gear yet. I have 20+ characters in the same boat because I've only hit 65 on 2. Over time, I'll have earned the gear on those other characters. I don't understand the injury you're articulating.

 

I can't buy the gear yet but before the update I could so my game is on hold, which part of that do you not understand? Will you try to talk everything good? I pay for the game too.

[Thunderstriken]

So are you just trying to convince yourself you're right? You can't be trying to convince us.

 

I've said numerous times in numerous threads, it's not a big deal to me at all. I'm not mad, I'm not upset, in fact, the whole deal pretty much turned me off to SWTOR. I cancelled my sub days ago, I'll have a day or two to play the expansion before my sub expires, which is way more time than I'll need from what I've heard. At this point I'm not even looking forward to it, and will probably play one character and then move on for a few months or years, perhaps forever.

 

I started a thread back on the 20th expressing my disappointment and frustration. That thread came and went, and there have been quite a few threads on the same subject over the past few days. Since I planned on playing the expansion during this time, I've got nothing keeping me from the forums, and being financially independent allows me to whatever I like whenever I like. So when I see people wrongfully accuse players who thought they qualified for the early access but didn't of being stupid and deficient in reading comprehension, I've got the time to set them straight.

 

Now, allow me to turn the tables on you. You're wondering about my end game here, I'm wondering about yours. What are you getting out of this? Why is it so important to you that players that thought they qualified for early access but didn't be called stupid? You're taking time out of playing the expansion to argue with people who are merely trying to express their frustration and disappointment, what do you get out of it?

 

In the end we all lose. Bioware is going to lose subscribers to this, they certainly lost me because of this. They did all this work to promote the expansion and bring back subscribers only to, well, as the title of the thread states, slap them in the face. That means not only less people for you to play with, but also less money coming in for future development.

[Bakakiba]

I can't buy the gear yet but before the update I could so my game is on hold, which part of that do you not understand? Will you try to talk everything good? I pay for the game too.

 

Apparently not when it mattered.

[Master-Nala]

I can't buy the gear yet but before the update I could so my game is on hold, which part of that do you not understand? Will you try to talk everything good? I pay for the game too.

 

Prior to the update, my main had been in Dark Reaver for a few months. So was my game on hold?

[xxHellsmokexx]

Prior to the update, my main had been in Dark Reaver for a few months. So was my game on hold?

 

No because everyone was in the same gear. you aren't on hold if there is nowhere to go.

Edited October 23, 2015 by xxHellsmokexx

[VanorDM]

actually came up with definitive proof that the promotion was deceptive.

 

You're soooo clueless I guess I can understand how you'd come to this conclusion. And at this point I either have to assume you're clueless or a troll, and I'm starting to lean towards the latter.

 

Therefore from Aug 10 to Oct 19 ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT mean that you had to be a subscriber from Aug 10th through Oct 19th!

 

No you had to have an active subscription that includes those dates. There is a period of about 10 days in which you could let your subscription lapse and still be eligable.

 

A subscription as you may or may not know, lasts for more than 1 day.

 

That means it can only be the single action even I spoke of.

 

No, once again your lack of basic comprehension is showing. There is no way you can have a single action that can take place on four different dates. That means on each date you have the option to choose to be an subscriber or not. That makes the term correct.

Edited October 23, 2015 by VanorDM

[xxHellsmokexx]

Apparently not when it mattered.

 

No not when it mattered to EA but when it mattered to me. I don't care about early access because I don't care about the story. What I do care about is being split up from my guild for a week when I pay like everyone else does. I don't always have time to play and much less do I have time to play their little game because they can't get their pocket full enough.

 

I payed this month and out of this month I lost a week of game time due to being punished for not being a sub for god knows how long to please them.

Edited October 23, 2015 by xxHellsmokexx

[Master-Nala]

Now, allow me to turn the tables on you. You're wondering about my end game here, I'm wondering about yours. What are you getting out of this? Why is it so important to you that players that thought they qualified for early access but didn't be called stupid? You're taking time out of playing the expansion to argue with people who are merely trying to express their frustration and disappointment, what do you get out of it?

 

Well, I was writing a brief this morning at work. After lunch on Friday my brain is kinda fried. So I can't play but I can come here to talk about the game. I don't have a dog in this hunt as you note. I just like arguing. I do it for a living.

 

Some folks have asked me in PMs over the years why I don't get that upset when I post. Well, that's because for me, I enjoy the discussion. I hold no grudges. If the devs gave you early access today, I would be happy for you. It wouldn't change my opinion that you didn't meet the requirements for it.

 

In the end we all lose. Bioware is going to lose subscribers to this, they certainly lost me because of this. They did all this work to promote the expansion and bring back subscribers only to, well, as the title of the thread states, slap them in the face. That means not only less people for you to play with, but also less money coming in for future development.

 

Please don't take offense, but I don't think they will lose too much because of early access. Zakuul is packed all hours of the day and this is early access. Sure they'll lose a few people, no doubt about it. But really, you're only hurting yourself, not them.

 

The guy who does the Cartel Market is an evil genius you see. The cash shop is brilliant here. Just plain designed to get money out of as many people as possible.

[Bakakiba]

No not when it mattered to EA but when it mattered to me. I don't care about early access because I don't care about the story. What I do care about is being split up from my guild for a week when I pay like everyone else does. I don't always have time to play and much less do I have time to play their little game because they can't get their pocket full enough.

 

I payed this month and out of this month I lost a week of game time due to being punished for not being a sub for god knows how long to please them.

 

So early access mattered to your guildmates then?

[VanorDM]

but I don't think they will lose too much because of early access.

 

They'll come out ahead no doubt. They either got or maintained a ton of subscriptions over that period, subscriptions that may of otherwise lapsed.

 

I mean think about it... Every single person complaining about not getting early access is a sub that they didn't have in July and have now.

 

The number of people who did get early access is a pretty good indication that there is either a ton of people who got it, or have stayed subed for the long haul.

 

The ones who subed for it, may or may not stay, but Bioware got money out of them and will likely get even more from them when they start releasing monthly updates.

 

The amount of people who will actually quit over not getting early access, due to their own misunderstandings, is so small as to not matter really. Some will no doubt quit, but I'm willing to bet that this turns into an overall net gain in subscribers.

Edited October 23, 2015 by VanorDM

[xxHellsmokexx]

So early access mattered to your guildmates then?

 

To some obviously yes, or they just have another payment plan than I do because as stated before I don't always have time to play and honestly they rip me off enough so why should I pay when I don't play?

[Thunderstriken]

So which is it?

 

You pretty much answered your own question. You pulled some quotes out of context a bit, not too much, but a bit. When I said a person can really only come to one logical conclusion, the context of that statement was when considering all the aspects involved. I've repeatedly stated that in and of itself the time frame presented by from Aug 10 to Oct 19 is indeterminate as to inclusivity.

 

So yes, I said a person could only come to one logical conclusion, a conclusion you yourself hold valid. ("To be honest, I don't really even think you made a mistake--it was a logical conclusion") Yet I was only referring to the all encompassing context of the promotion. It is ambiguous, I've said that from the start, as I have also said it is open to different interpretation from the start.

[VanorDM]

so why should I pay when I don't play?

 

You shouldn't. But you also shouldn't expect to get something you didn't pay for.

[offence]

This early access is the worst , my only gripe with this expansion and i've been playing since EARLY BETA phase 1-2.

They really did a poor job not letting everyone in on the 20th a pathetic low move since we are all mostly subs.

Edited October 23, 2015 by offence