(KOTFE) Do you really have to do PvP to recruit a PvE companion?

[Leklor]

Maybe start em on something smaller though eh? Not just dive head first on Malgus/Shan. Maybe start with a fairly well liked character from one of the planetary story lines.

 

I agree on the rest of the post but I feel this, specifically, is the interesting part:

This is a good idea but the ideal would be, I think, to completely detach PvP-earned companions from story.

Give them custom skined mobs, pimped-out war droids with "I rule at Ranked PvP" written on the side, Baron Deathmark and some of the few others notable NPCs from Warzones or tied to their histories.

Hell, do the same for Ops! Give them some of the less "human" bosses as a super rare drops, give them clones of Kephess!

And eventually, if Satele's Plot Armor finally cracks long enough for her to die, then I wouldn't see the issue with making them non-story companions since they are DEAD and shouldn't be here anyway.

[TurtlesAWD]

Baron Deathmark would make a great pvp companion because he's an established pvp associated character.

[Bachannal]

I'm surprised more PVPers aren't angry that us filthy casuals will be ruining their playtime by gimping their teams.

 

Seriously though, I'm a level 65 in PVE gear and predominately a clicker. With no clue about how to PVP or warzones. Do you really want me on your side?

 

Right? But I'm looking forward to p*ssing off as many PVPers as I can with this. I can't lie.

[Master-Nala]

You did it again, I see.

You seem to think the issue I keep bringing up is the fact that PvP is required for these companions.

It's not.

If you had bothered to read my previous post entirely, you would maybe have noticed that more and more complains are now emanating from people who have finished the quest and believe there are adjustements that could be made to make it more enjoyable, more rewarding and so on.

As long as you'll be convinced that the problem that annoy people is strictly the PvP gate, the discussion is not going to make any progress.

 

You keep ignoring what I'm saying. Once you realize you really, really can just walk away from this quest you might understand.

 

I get it. People want the companion. And they want a different way to get it. That's what you're saying right? That, even if the quest must include PvP, can we make it a bit better?

 

I don't think that's a problem that need solving. I've said why above, but let me try to make what I'm saying more plain: Don't do things that you don't enjoy.

 

That's a radical notion and I don't mean that sarcastically. For many MMORPG players, the idea of simply only playing those parts of the game that they enjoy and accepting what rewards flow from that is hard. It was hard for me for a long time. But once you let go and stop doing things you don't like, you'll enjoy the game more.

 

The quest in this instance is not problematic. Why? Because you don't have to do it. It's that simple. If you think 20 WZs is not a fun thing to do, then don't do it. I gather from your comments that if you could get M1-4X from the same fetch quests that Yuun and Tallos give, that you wouldn't be arguing here. If that is true (and let's be honest, it is), then you aren't really trying the "improve" the quest. You're trying to create an alternative to something you don't enjoy. But if you had simply not done the thing you don't enjoy, you might feel better.

 

I practice what I preach by the way. Last season, I came to the conclusion that I simply don't like solo ranked PvP. So I stopped. Sure I would have liked the rewards, but it wasn't fun, so I didn't do it. The developers want you to have fun. But you have to take some responsibility for your own actions. If you do a quest you hate, that's on you. I wouldn't. I PvP because I like to PvP. So for me, doing the quest is just having fun. The reward is the cherry on top.

 

Let go of that "need" for the reward. Once you do, any 'problems' disappear.

[Master-Nala]

If I was being required to pvp for something and if I knew I could jump into that content without a ton of preparation needing to be done to be usefull at all let alone to have fun, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

Issue is, pvp grinding isn't fun and when I'm on a character that I know will have low expertise it turns into a ride on the struggle bus every time. For me and my team, as I will be dragging them all down with me.

 

You don't need that much preparation to do basic Warzones. You just need to understand this: If you're not in PvP gear, wear gear that has a PvE rating (e.g. 204, 208, etc.) that's lower than the currently existing PvP gear until you have max expertise.

 

I believe the 190 gear from Ziost bolsters to max expertise, although I haven't tried it myself.

[Emohawk]

I keep seeing people say that one option is to have a valour rank of 40, mine is 72 but it still asks me to do 20 warzones.

Really don't fancy jumping in to a warzone with zero pvp gear.

[TurtlesAWD]

You don't need that much preparation to do basic Warzones. You just need to understand this: If you're not in PvP gear, wear gear that has a PvE rating (e.g. 204, 208, etc.) that's lower than the currently existing PvP gear until you have max expertise.

 

I believe the 190 gear from Ziost bolsters to max expertise, although I haven't tried it myself.

 

I'm not going to do this. I'm going to queue up in whatever I have on right now and ruin the experience for you and everyone else.

[Master-Nala]

I keep seeing people say that one option is to have a valour rank of 40, mine is 72 but it still asks me to do 20 warzones.

Really don't fancy jumping in to a warzone with zero pvp gear.

 

I think you have to take the quest. Then talk to him again and tell him something like, "But I've already defeated many of our enemy." I forget exactly what it says.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Master-Nala]

I'm not going to do this. I'm going to queue up in whatever I have on right now and ruin the experience for you and everyone else.

 

How will you do that? Play poorly. That's OK. There are and always been plenty of you. And you're just giving the other team some fun shooting ducks. I don't know how many times I can explain this to you all. You can't ruin the experience for everyone. Because half of everyone is on the other side benefiting from your petulant protest play.

 

But then it's clear you were not being truthful when you said you would play if you didn't have to do a lot of preparation. If putting on some old gear is a lot of preparation, I don't know what you think 'not a lot' is?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Master-Nala

[Emohawk]

I think you have to take the quest. Then talk to him again and tell him something like, "But I've already defeated many of our enemy." I forget exactly what it says.

Cheers ,I will take a closer look.

[Leklor]

You keep ignoring what I'm saying. Once you realize you really, really can just walk away from this quest you might understand.

 

Irony, oh irony!

 

I get it. People want the companion. And they want a different way to get it. That's what you're saying right?

 

No, no, no, no, nope and yet again no!

 

That, even if the quest must include PvP, can we make it a bit better?

 

It's not about making it "a bit better". It's about making it good, at all.

Right now it's not. It's terrible.

-It fails as an introduction for new 60s and players that never played PvP before that point. It drops these people in the middle of PvP without any guide, any information, nothing.

-It fails as an incentive. By definition, an incentive is meant to be something that pushes one to accomplish a task by promising him a reward. But here, since the reward is so small, the large number of Warzones simply isn't appropriate. A companion, a Rank 6 gift and an Alliance Crate isn't enough.

-It's poorly integrated into the Alliance system. Warzones, daily and weekly PvP quests should reward participation with things tied to Alliance growth once Chapter IX of KOTFE is finished. Right now, it's not.

-There is no reason to continue PvPing after the quest is done, negating all the efforts made to learn how to play PvP (Which is why so many are saying they'll just **** up matches. They have ZERO reason to get good or keep PvPing later.). A proper implementation of the quest would have been used to show that PvP can earn reward for the Alliance system and thus shouldn't be ignored. Right now, it's just a one-off grind for 4X/Pierce. It doesn't benefit the mutli-faceted aspect of the game because once the companion is acquired, further PvP matches are, Alliance-wise, a complete waste of time.

 

Those are the main reasons why the quest, in it's current state, is simply a huge failure. It doesn't accomplish what it's goals are supposed to be, it alienates potential PvP players instead of hooking them up with rewards, it introduces the content it intends to promote in a very poor way.

It needs improvement if it is to remain a part of the Alliance system.

Otherwise, make it a PvP Terminal quest and do not add Alliance rewards to PvP. Divorce both completely.

Right now, it's doing half the required job and it is not enough.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Leklor

[Master-Nala]

It's not about making it "a bit better". It's about making it good, at all.

Right now it's not. It's terrible.

 

No, it's not. You just don't like PvP. I like PvP and so for me the quest is just fine. You do understand that the statement you're making is a subjective analysis?

 

-It fails as an introduction for new 60s and players that never played PvP before that point. It drops these people in the middle of PvP without any guide, any information, nothing.

-It fails as an incentive. By definition, an incentive is meant to be something that pushes one to accomplish a task by promising him a reward. But here, since the reward is so small, the large number of Warzones simply isn't appropriate. A companion, a Rank 6 gift and an Alliance Crate isn't enough.

-It's poorly integrated into the Alliance system. Warzones, daily and PvP quest should reward participation with things tied to Alliance growth once Chapter IX of KOTFE is finished. Right now, it's not.

-There is no reason to continue PvPing after the quest is done, negating all the efforts made to learn how to play PvP (Which is why so many are saying they'll just **** up matches. They have ZERO reason to get good or keep PvPing later.). A proper implementation of the quest would have been used to show that PvP can earn reward for the Alliance system and thus shouldn't be ignored. Right now, it's just a one-off grind for 4X/Pierce. It doesn't benefit the mutli-faceted aspect of the game because once the companion is acquired, further PvP matches are, Alliance-wise, a complete waste of time.

 

All of that is only true if you don't enjoy PvP. And if you don't enjoy PvP then you shouldn't do the quest. You should simply forgo the reward and move on and do activities you do enjoy.

 

Those are the main reasons why the quest, in it's current state, is simply a huge failure. It doesn't accomplish what it's goals are supposed to be, it alienates potential PvP players instead of hooking them up with rewards, it introduces the content it intends to promote in a very poor way.

It needs improvement if it is to remain a part of the Alliance system.

Otherwise, make it a PvP Terminal quest and do not add Alliance rewards to PvP. Divorce both completely.

Right now, it's doing half the required job and it is not enough.

 

And the part underlined is why you're so frustrated. You want the rewards, but you don't want to PvP. It's that simple. But as soon as you accept not getting the rewards the 'problems' disappear.

 

EDIT: Listen, as I said, the reason we're at loggerheads is because we're looking at it from an entirely different viewpoint.

 

I see no problem with optional rewards being gated behind...well any activity really. And I feel that way because I have accepted that you just have more fun doing things you enjoy. All the 'problems' you list above only apply if you don't like PvP. You don't so you want to change it. I do, so I think it's fine.

 

You aren't able to accept that because it's really important to you that you have a means to get M1-4X. If the reward was something you didn't care about, you wouldn't be making this argument.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Master-Nala

[xeriphim]

I went into this with an open mind. Had never pvp'd before. the first few matches were horrible but I learned the basics. And grabbed up the daily and weekly for pvp. completed both and had a few matches afterwards to do to get Pierce. finished those off. had enough wz comms to get nearly a complete set of pvp gear. Would I do it again on another character ? Honestly dunno . but the time it took to aquiring Pierce and exposing myself to an element of the game I went in with cold feet and no knowledge. I found the experience was far from the sky is faling omg game over. Far from it. Is pvp for everyone ? NO . But bottom line if you want the companion omg work for it. It's not hard. the level of self entitlement from people is rather appalling. BW hey , thanks on getting me to try out pvp

[Leklor]

And the part underlined is why you're so frustrated. You want the rewards, but you don't want to PvP. It's that simple. But as soon as you accept not getting the rewards the 'problems' disappear.

 

Actually I'd want to PvP more. If PvP were to reward me for dedicating time to it instead of running Heroics on alts to mail Alliance Crates to my main.

Right now I don't want to PvP more because I gain exactly zilch from it.

But please, do keep telling how I should enjoy my game.

Your way of having fun isn't mine. I can do some content that mildly entertain me but in return I need to feel rewarded. Right now, I'm not. (Which is also why I don't do FPs anymore and have zero intention of starting Ops despite my Imp-side guild saying I'd enjoy it. I gain nothing from it.)

[AbsolutGrndZero]

@Master-Nala

 

Kudos to you that you try to reason with them.

 

So guys, you are the elite PVE snowflakes that are okay that companions are locked behind PVE gates that a PVP player needs to face but you are not okay when one or two have the requirements the other way around? Aye. Before you even start your smart talk that companions belong to PVE, let me remind you that a PVP warrior has the same right to get Pierce as you since it was always his original companion.

 

 

Don't know if anyone has said it, but when you go talk to Peirce as a warrior, he just up and joins you. Doesn't even offer the PvP quest. Just "WHoa, boss you're back! Screw this new job, I'm with you!"

[Master-Nala]

Actually I'd want to PvP more. If PvP were to reward me for dedicating time to it instead of running Heroics on alts to mail Alliance Crates to my main.

 

To quote Yoda, "And that is why you fail." You're playing for the rewards. Play for fun.

 

Right now I don't want to PvP more because I gain exactly zilch from it.

But please, do keep telling how I should enjoy my game.

 

Interestingly enough, I'm not. This reminds me of that old joke.

 

A patient went to see his doctor and complained, "Doctor it hurts my arm when I bend it like this."

So the doctor replied, "Don't bend it like that."

 

I'm not telling you how to enjoy your game. I'm saying that if you don't enjoy something, then don't do it. You're the one here complaining about not liking the quest.

 

Your way of having fun isn't mine.

 

Absolutely correct. That's part of my point. I do the parts of the game I find fun. I'm suggesting that you do the parts of the game you find fun. I'm not sure why you take issue with that.

 

I can do some content that mildly entertain me but in return I need to feel rewarded. Right now, I'm not. (Which is also why I don't do FPs anymore and have zero intention of starting Ops despite my Imp-side guild saying I'd enjoy it. I gain nothing from it.)

 

And here's the rub.

 

You wanted M1-4X so bad that you did something that you didn't find "mildly entertaining. My suggestion is if you don't enjoy it, stop doing it reward be damned.

[Leklor]

You wanted M1-4X so bad that you did something that you didn't find "mildly entertaining. My suggestion is if you don't enjoy it, stop doing it reward be damned.

 

I didn't do it for 4X actually. I don't even use him.

I did it because I wanted legitimacy when defending my opinion that the quest was poorly designed.

I don't critcize what I haven't done.

Maybe that concept is weird for you, I don't know.

And after having done that, I felt there were improvements that could have been made to make it better. Don't agree? Fine. But don't come repeating the same non-sense all the time "Don't like it, don't do it.". Because I could like it. If it wasn't wasting my time. I'm getting the hang of casual PvP and I'm starting to find it somewhat fun. But at the same time, the time I spend PvP isn't letting me progress with my Alliance and I don't see any reasons why. Since apparently we don't care that the quest makes little sense in the context of the Alliance, why can't PvP be actually beneficial to PvP? How would that hurt?

[iacon]

Right now I don't want to PvP more because I gain exactly zilch from it.

 

Well, now you have a reward from PVP that you will gain from thereby giving your a reason to do it. Isn't that exactly what you want?

 

Am I missing something? If it is not a reward you want enough to do some PVP, then why are you having a fit about not getting it? It is not something you want so there is no reason to complain about not having it. Furthermore, very few if not all of the PVP reward items cannot be used in PVP anyway. They are just bling to have when you're running around outside of a match.

Edited October 30, 2015 by iacon

[Leklor]

Well, now you have a reward from PVP that you will gain from thereby giving your a reason to do it. Isn't that exactly what you want?

 

Am I missing something? If it is not a reward you want enough to do some PVP, then why are you having a fit about not getting it? It is not something you want so there is no reason to complain about not having it.

 

Let me rephrase it more clearly: "Once M1-4X has been acquired, the incentive to do PvP dissapears completely."

There's no reason to keep doing it and it's a bit sad.

Giving a little something to PvPers and, in the same move, enticing PvE to try out PvP was a good idea, all things considered. Why not go all the way? Let PvPers level up their alliance through PvP if they wish, let PvE do it via PvE only and let those who play both (Or were convinced to play both by the quest) do so by alternating. Right now, the quest is a one-off and done.

[Master-Nala]

Let me rephrase it more clearly: "Once M1-4X has been acquired, the incentive to do PvP dissapears completely."

There's no reason to keep doing it and it's a bit sad.

Giving a little something to PvPers and, in the same move, enticing PvE to try out PvP was a good idea, all things considered. Why not go all the way? Let PvPers level up their alliance through PvP if they wish, let PvE do it via PvE only and let those who play both (Or were convinced to play both by the quest) do so by alternating. Right now, the quest is a one-off and done.

 

While it's relatively minor, M1-4X and Pierce do increase their influence from PvP.

[Bachannal]

What you have here, is entitlement. These kids are so used to everything just being handed to them. Now that they actually have to do something to get their companion, they cry about it.

 

It's a few war zones people. Get over it. Oh and I really like the people who say they will just afk in their WZ matches. Yes, just ruin it for everyone else because you're selfish. Boo hoo.

 

It's **** like this as to why games are easy these days. It's not that difficult to play a few rounds of PvP. Such whiners man lol.

 

 

You PVPers are just SO TOUGH!!! RAHR!! You must all be better players because you don't pop...and us PVErs are all just "bad"...that's it.

 

Whatever it takes to make you sleep better at night snowflake...you go on believing it.

 

You're all just a bunch of briefer spawn kill douchebuckets anyway, so honestly...if us PVE folks logging into your WZ's and not doing a thing angers you, so much the better.

[TurtlesAWD]

How will you do that? Play poorly. That's OK. There are and always been plenty of you. And you're just giving the other team some fun shooting ducks. I don't know how many times I can explain this to you all. You can't ruin the experience for everyone. Because half of everyone is on the other side benefiting from your petulant protest play.

 

 

So you define fun in pvp by a lack of challenge? You can only enjoy it when it's easy? I mean I guess they would find it fun because it's a free x2 completion towards their gated pve content, right?

Edited October 30, 2015 by TurtlesAWD

[Bachannal]

So you define fun in pvp by a lack of challenge? You can only enjoy it when it's easy?

 

What do you expect from people who actively enjoy making other people upset? This is the same crowd that will grief people in games like GTA. The same people that will keep ganking someone that mistakenly gets flagged for PVP because someone in their group is flagged.

 

I'd enjoy PVP if it wasn't typically a giant crowd of people that I'd love to throat punch in real life. The chat in any PVP match is 100% indicative of the general attitude of PVPers, and half the comments in this thread have just verified that. They insult everyone, call them whiners, etc. and then expect people to either respect them or care about their play style.

[TurtlesAWD]

What do you expect from people who actively enjoy making other people upset? This is the same crowd that will grief people in games like GTA. The same people that will keep ganking someone that mistakenly gets flagged for PVP because someone in their group is flagged.

 

I'd enjoy PVP if it wasn't typically a giant crowd of people that I'd love to throat punch in real life. The chat in any PVP match is 100% indicative of the general attitude of PVPers, and half the comments in this thread have just verified that. They insult everyone, call them whiners, etc. and then expect people to either respect them or care about their play style.

 

It's a pretty casual play style too if you consider that while getting rewards from pve requires actual objective completion, getting rewards from pvp just requires that you show up and wait. Really don't understand the association with pvp and being "hardcore."

Edited October 30, 2015 by TurtlesAWD

[Master-Nala]

So you define fun in pvp by a lack of challenge?

 

Sometimes, sure. What you thought I would disagree? Nope. Sometimes a good curbstomp is very fun. It's also fun to play against a really good team when your team is also good. The variety and unpredictability is what is fun about PvP.

 

When you see an Operations or Flashpoint boss, you can know immediately what they are going to do and when. With a player, to quote Forrest Gump, "It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get." So you might get your butt kicked in one game, run over the opposing team in the next, and have an awesome Huttball against two teams that know what their doing the next time.

 

That happened to me last night. It was awesome.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Master-Nala