Class Competence Quests (desperately needed)

[Wipemyads]

SWTOR Suggestion (Class Competence Tests)

 

The end-game of any MMORPGs should be reserved only for those who demonstrate and have put the time into learning to play their class as it is needed and can play it well. There is a reason someone starts at level 1 and has to progress through the levels to reach the highest level which is currently 60. Do you get to start at adulthood right out of the womb? There is a learning process that must be done or the player ends up “un-matured” if you will. To mitigate this process, as some do accomplish, only ruins the end-game for the more dedicated players (the term “dedicated players” does not just include the people who raid all the time, my wife and I do not raid currently due to time constraints). The more dedicated players are the ones you want to keep yet they end up leaving the game. The dedicated players leave the game because of the incompetence of players who cannot play their class yet expect to raid and be fully clothed in the best gear. These incompetent players sound like a 16 year old wishing to drive a Ferrari on his 16th birthday (I hope we all would think this is a bad idea). The immature players play a game for a while and leave because they have no determination or longevity in their affections (usually children). If the game gets to be too hard, they quit playing. Is that the kind of clientele you want? That type of “quit” clientele will always complain and keep saying the game is too hard. The ones who sustain the game are your more dedicated players who desire the challenge. World of Warcraft appealed to the masses and the game became too easy. The number of subscribers is dwindling horribly and WOW’s days are severely numbered. People are leaving because anyone can be level 60 or the highest level. It is like handing a 14 year old kid 10 million dollars and expecting him to invest it wisely and not just spend it all in one year. SWTOR is now implementing the introduction of a level 60 toon in the next expansion as I understand! WOW implemented a level 60 toon and that was their downfall. Many dedicated players left WOW after that because some people just do not deserve to have a level 60 toon! The most irritating person in the game is someone who thinks they deserve the best gear and yet approaches all aspects of the game selfishly. Let us not encourage such behavior! SWTOR has made it easy enough to get around in the game and with markers for quests on the maps. How about some challenges?

 

My solution to help preserve the integrity of the game is to implement Class Competence Tests into each class at certain levels. If the person playing the toon cannot pass the Class Competence Quest Line for level 20 of a certain class, then the person has not demonstrated an adequate ability to play this class past level 20. Do you give a child keys to a car without teaching them to drive? If they cannot pass the few fights “solo” in the Competence Quest Line then they cannot proceed in the levels. The same goes for level 40 and 55. Not everyone can and should own a house. Not everyone gets to drive a brand new car. Not everyone deserves a $60,000 a year salary and not everyone deserves to play the end-game. The end-game holds a certain allure and should be enough to motivate those players to exceed in their classes to afford the chance to play at the end-game level. As it currently stands, anyone can play at the end-game so the more dedicated players have to enact crazy requirements to filter out the immature players SWTOR has allowed to progress to level 60! You do not become the CEO of a company just because you feel like you should be. You work for it!

 

Thank you for your time.

[Khevar]

Luckily, BW would never ever implement this absurd idea. So I don't feel compelled to make a solid case against you.

 

So I'll simply say: "Oh Hell No"

[Wipemyads]

Instead of insulting me. A simple "I do not like the idea" would suffice.

[StarkillerVB]

This is a really ridiculous idea, especially considering your level locking suggestion. At best, I can see this being added for end-game only, and until you pass your 'Class Competence Quest', you can't enter raids. Even that is a little much in my opinion, as most failure comes from lack of mechanics, NOT having little to no knowledge of your class. I've seen several groups with top-notch players fail a raid due to the mechanics, so maybe instead of a 'Class Competence Quest', introduce a way to work on mechanics in a raid, like allow a 'simulated' Underlurker boss fight, or something along those lines.

 

As your idea stands, I definitely can't get behind it.

[Kiesu]

God that wall-of-text could use some reformatting.

 

The end boss of your class mission sort of is already this. It will require you to interrupt, CC, use cooldowns and avoid AOEs to down them, which are all skills you need in usual content already. (unless you are super over-geared or screaming on fleet for some lv 60 to help on class mission, then its wasted).

 

Some people just have goldfish memory and will run into the same aoe that killed them five seconds ago again and again. No can do really.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Kiesu

[Monumenta]

Luckily, BW would never ever implement this absurd idea. So I don't feel compelled to make a solid case against you.

 

So I'll simply say: "Oh Hell No"

 

agreed

[Khevar]

Instead of insulting me. A simple "I do not like the idea" would suffice.

No insult was intended towards you.

 

And unfortunately, "I do not like the idea" would most certainly not suffice in expressing my opinion on the matter. It is for situations like this that expletives were invented.

 

A player should gain skill at this game because he or she WANTS to. Not because they're being MADE to. Instead of improving the skill level of players, your idea would simply reduce the number of people willing to play the game at all.

[Diviciacus]

I can't be bothered to read OP since it's a giant wall of text.

But if his/her ideas are anything like the proving grounds in WoW, I'm all for it.

[branmakmuffin]

I can't be bothered to read OP since it's a giant wall of text.

But if his/her ideas are anything like the proving grounds in WoW, I'm all for it.

Maybe, but it's hardly "desperately needed."

[Hebruixe]

For God's sake, let's not copy WoW's mistakes. Thanks.

[XiamaraSimi]

Some people just have goldfish memory and will run into the same aoe that killed them five seconds ago again and again. No can do really.

 

Lol.. sadly true. Always makes me think of that episode of the Simpsons where Lisa hooks electricity up to a cupcake and Bart keeps getting zapped.

Edited September 24, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Wipemyads]

Well thank you Starkiller for your constructive criticism instead of personal attacks on me.

You know what...forget my suggestion.

I see people cannot provide comments without personally attacking someone.

My message may have been long, but you have to be wordy to hopefully stop

The loop-hole seekers and the Trolls.

I guess I still found the trolls anyways.

Just forget my idea.

It seems people love to insult rather than provide objective comments and

People wonder why no one gets along...

Just because you are putting a message in a message board does not mean

That there is not a person behind the text. Online definitely brings out the poison in a tongue.

Good night and not reading this post anymore.

Thank you for those that could be respectful and provide constructive criticism,

[Axeius]

SWTOR Suggestion (Class Competence Tests)

 

The end-game of any MMORPGs should be reserved only for those who demonstrate and have put the time into learning to play their class as it is needed and can play it well. There is a reason someone starts at level 1 and has to progress through the levels to reach the highest level which is currently 60. Do you get to start at adulthood right out of the womb? There is a learning process that must be done or the player ends up “un-matured” if you will. To mitigate this process, as some do accomplish, only ruins the end-game for the more dedicated players (the term “dedicated players” does not just include the people who raid all the time, my wife and I do not raid currently due to time constraints). The more dedicated players are the ones you want to keep yet they end up leaving the game. The dedicated players leave the game because of the incompetence of players who cannot play their class yet expect to raid and be fully clothed in the best gear. These incompetent players sound like a 16 year old wishing to drive a Ferrari on his 16th birthday (I hope we all would think this is a bad idea). The immature players play a game for a while and leave because they have no determination or longevity in their affections (usually children). If the game gets to be too hard, they quit playing. Is that the kind of clientele you want? That type of “quit” clientele will always complain and keep saying the game is too hard. The ones who sustain the game are your more dedicated players who desire the challenge. World of Warcraft appealed to the masses and the game became too easy. The number of subscribers is dwindling horribly and WOW’s days are severely numbered. People are leaving because anyone can be level 60 or the highest level. It is like handing a 14 year old kid 10 million dollars and expecting him to invest it wisely and not just spend it all in one year. SWTOR is now implementing the introduction of a level 60 toon in the next expansion as I understand! WOW implemented a level 60 toon and that was their downfall. Many dedicated players left WOW after that because some people just do not deserve to have a level 60 toon! The most irritating person in the game is someone who thinks they deserve the best gear and yet approaches all aspects of the game selfishly. Let us not encourage such behavior! SWTOR has made it easy enough to get around in the game and with markers for quests on the maps. How about some challenges?

 

My solution to help preserve the integrity of the game is to implement Class Competence Tests into each class at certain levels. If the person playing the toon cannot pass the Class Competence Quest Line for level 20 of a certain class, then the person has not demonstrated an adequate ability to play this class past level 20. Do you give a child keys to a car without teaching them to drive? If they cannot pass the few fights “solo” in the Competence Quest Line then they cannot proceed in the levels. The same goes for level 40 and 55. Not everyone can and should own a house. Not everyone gets to drive a brand new car. Not everyone deserves a $60,000 a year salary and not everyone deserves to play the end-game. The end-game holds a certain allure and should be enough to motivate those players to exceed in their classes to afford the chance to play at the end-game level. As it currently stands, anyone can play at the end-game so the more dedicated players have to enact crazy requirements to filter out the immature players SWTOR has allowed to progress to level 60! You do not become the CEO of a company just because you feel like you should be. You work for it!

 

Thank you for your time.

 

After reading this lengthy wall of text I think the OP has had some bad experiences in game. Also, this sounds strongly like a complaint with little mention of a method to fix the issue at hand.

 

I don't agree with raising a wall in progress all in the name of ensured competency of a given player. If you see a fellow player playing in a manner you don't appreciate then its your choice in what manner you respond to that situation. whether you try to assist them or kick them from the group your participating in, its down to your choice.

 

This is very much a social game and we all should do what we can to make our fellow players play as well as they can, After all the benefits would flow onto you and your guild in flash point and operation circumstances.

 

I believe a change in game mechanics would ruin the flow and experience if changes like this were implemented.

[Mithros]

The dedicated players leave the game because of the incompetence of players who cannot play their class...

 

Is that the kind of clientele you want? That type of “quit” clientele will always complain and keep saying the game is too hard.

 

So you quit because it's too hard to play with people that you claim don't know their class, but then bag on people that quit playing because the game is too hard?

 

The ones who sustain the game are your more dedicated players who desire the challenge.

No, the ones who sustaint he game are the players that spend lots of money on the cartel market and who spend a lot of time subscribed... Raiders may or may not fit into this category.

 

A lot of raiders are "seasonal" in that they will come back for a little while when an expansion drops, but then disappear for months at a time between expansions.

 

The number of subscribers is dwindling horribly and WOW’s days are severely numbered.

And metioning WOW is important how?

 

If anything, this just further shows that raiders do not support games.

The new games which are gaining in popularity do not require any sort of major commitment to raiding.

 

You know, like you are proposing here.

 

The most irritating person in the game is someone who thinks they deserve the best gear and yet approaches all aspects of the game selfishly.

 

You mean like those people that "need" on gear drops in flashpoints that not even their companions can use?

 

Because I have met those people at level 10 running through Esseles and Black Talon, and many, many other below 60 flashpoints.

 

Maybe that has ntohing to do with what level a character is.

 

If they cannot pass the few fights “solo” in the Competence Quest Line then they cannot proceed in the levels.

 

Even if they did such a thing, how long until you come back complaining about how they made the tests too easy?

Or maybe they surprise you and then you are back here complaining about how they made them too difficult.

 

Either way, this isn't an automobile, it's a game.

A car is out on the road with other cars, cycles (motorized or man-powered), pedestrians, etc. It's a matter of public safety that a person operating such a piece of machinery demonstrate a certain level of competence.

 

But someone messes up while running a flashpoint?

 

Did anyone die? Spend any time in the hospital? Did anyone become disabled in some way? No?

 

Then quit acting like it's the same thing.

 

No one is handing anyone any keys. A better analogy would be asking if you would hand them dice, cards, or maybe miniatures.

 

And the answer to that is yes, I would. The more, the merrier.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Mithros

[Diviciacus]

For God's sake, let's not copy WoW's mistakes. Thanks.

 

They already copied a ton of mistakes from WoW, they might as well copy something worthwhile for a change.

[PatT]

Yes, wow does this for lfr (looking for raid) content at a certain level. Personally, I don't know how I feel about it. I can see the op's point, but who teaches people to play that don't know how?

 

When you sign up to pug TOS, people want to see your achiev for it, but what if you're not in a guild and can't work through underlurker with people you know first?

 

Seems like people don't have the time or patience (or care) for anyone not "up to their standards." Problem is, some day your standards could fall, then you'd be like the ones you denigrate.

 

To make your lenthy post more readable, more linebreaks. Double line breaks. Gives the eye someplace to rest. Yes, I set type for a living for 10 years.

 

There is already a problem from what I can tell, of elitism. I am good enough. When I heal, we don't wipe. But I can't parse because my parser crashes my game. If it's a prereq., then I'd rather play with people who dont mind that my game stays running. If they are wiping all the time, it's a reasonable request. If they are staying alive, staying up, then my hps is sufficient.

 

Besides, lets face it, no matter how many tests you devise (like final bosses) people seem to always find a way around them. There are almost as many cheaters as honest folk these days, so who knows if they passed that test or not? Maybe a friend came over and did it for them. Maybe lots of things.

 

If you are looking for hardcore, maybe you need to find a hardcore type game (ie. League of Legends) or something. If you can't have fun, share your knowledge, teach someone how to play their class, (because it can be a snooze fest to wade into theory crafting just to find a good rotation and why it's good) or an effecitve gear without being doused in what some people would call esoteric mathmatics.

 

While I understand what you want, and I even sympathize/empathize, I don't think it's functionally do-able for the reasons I listed. Please use your return key extra times to break up your text. Thanks.

[Soul_of_Flames]

This would not work at all. In fact, it would backfire drastically. If this was to be implemented, you would see a dramatic decrease in players within a week.

 

For starters, why are you saying only dedicated players deserve to play the game? There are many casual players who enjoy playing this game just like anyone else. Just because they aren't trying to do well doesn't mean they don't deserve to play. They are playing to have fun... and most of which doesn't even involve endgame content.

 

Secondly, you don't need to be good at your class to get through the story. And just because you got through your story doesn't mean you want to participate in end game content. Many players just play this game by making toon after toon just to experience to story and dialogue. Then they abandon that character once they finish in favor of a new one. If you implement some sort of locking mechanism on leveling, then it hurts players who admittedly aren't dedicated and don't wish to play endgame content.

 

Thirdly, there are players and even guilds that spend their game time teaching other players how to play. Getting together with fresh, newbie 60s that don't know the first thing about their rotation and preparing them for the endgame. But, if you make it impossible for the "incompetent" to level up, then you're depriving other competent players of their enjoyment of teaching other players.

 

All in all, you're entire suggestion revolves around the MINORITY of players who try to raid casually. Much like you wouldn't nuke a country to get one person, you can't implement this suggestion to weed out a small percentage of players. You need to suck it up and deal with it.

[Krytie]

I don't agree with level capping someone. There are many different types of people with different types of abilities. Also, some are better at tanking, healing, DPS (close range or far range). Some prefer PVP, some prefer huttball style, some prefer only playing by themselves and socialising. There are too many varied ways and things to do. So, I think that capping the level of someone is not good and will only cause frustration when it should all be fun.

 

Now, that aside, what would be pretty fun and useful would be to have the trainers also have certification missions. This would not be 100% as even bosses are different in tactics. But, would be quite fun or like a healer to do a solo mission where he is in a fight and responsible to heal his/her side. Or be a part of a hutball match with all NPCs that is simple enough, but let people play and even practice. Then depending on points earned doing different things during the mission, then you get a certification level. Possibly, just making it go progressively harder until they die or something has failed. Then that would give a certification level. So, people can go back trying to better their score.

 

This could show on the character screen for raid leaders to check. Personally, for PUGS, this would be good if you in a PUG group. But, if in a guild, most talk and teach people how to play. I would say for social guilds, it would not be useful, but only for the hard-core raiding guilds. But, then again they already train their people anyways.

 

I think it would be fun though and good practice for people to prepare to hard flashpoints and OPS group for them to feel that they are ready as it can be scary to join the group finder for the first time. So, this would be a fun way for people to test themselves and see if they are ready without worrying if they will make a group of people upset by not being that great and killing people that know what they are doing. Less frustration for all. Especially like in huttball or something, some practice is great for newbies so they don't ruin a whole team of experienced people. I myself just enjoy playing so don't mind dieing or losing, but we are not all casual like me.

 

Also, the people that like achievements can have more things to work for as well.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Krytie
forgot something to add

[dlcman]

Instead of insulting me. A simple "I do not like the idea" would suffice.

 

As opposed to you insulting everyone who doesn't play the game to your satisfaction? A simple hit the cancellation button would suffice if you don't like your game experiences.

Edited September 27, 2015 by dlcman

[Rankyn]

I'd like to see some sort of posting competence test for the forum before people in glass houses decide to start throwing stones.

[branmakmuffin]

Even if they did such a thing, how long until you come back complaining about how they made the tests too easy?

I suspect the "perfect" setting for this bar is the OP's level of competence. After all, anyone with more game competence is no doubt a lifeless basement dweller who plays 16 hours a day and anyone with less is no doubt a scrubby, skill-deficient ultra-casual who does not take the game seriously enough.

 

And I rescind my earlier "maybe."

Edited September 27, 2015 by branmakmuffin