The Hypocrisy of Guild Summits

[Raazmir]

I will be satisfied with all of the following happen: Server doesn't get merged, we can que for anything and it doesn't take longer than 2 minutes most times of day, we can walk anywhere and see RP happening, the majority of the servers population uses begerencolony.org as a tool to get things done as much as dulfy.com, the majority of players give their input toward further development for continued server communication of the server, and we can see massive battles in open world pvp on a regular basis. Just to name a few things that would help to satisfy me personally as tangible outcomes from the summits. However the very nature of the summits is to be ever changing, moving things forward for the betterment of the server. I think it is reasonable to continue with the summits given the efforts and results thus far.

 

~Dezz'revas~ Republic (The Revas Colonial Alliance)

~Dessel'revas~ Imperial (The Fallen of Revas)

I'd like a pony and a unicorn and to win the lottery too, but i wouldn't hold my breath til i got it.

[Varin_Korva]

Okay, I actually didn't expect so many comments! I personally wished I attended all three summits myself, but given the reception I had in coming back to the game, I thought it was wiser to simply watch the youtube recordings and get a feel of the reception of the summit; I also read forums obviously.

Apologies in advance for a bad usage of quoting others, there is a massive amount of quotes I wanted to respond to.

 

Before I respond by name to the people who responded, I want to express that PVP, RP, PVE, and GSF are all accessable content that we all deserve to participate in. I factor a servers health as the ability for all players to be able to access that content in a comfortable atmosphere if that is their choice and the ability to integrate within a community as per the environment of a typical MMO/MMORPG.

 

@ (most likely Taym): As I said elsewhere, Hannith does more for the server's community with her giveaway events than any number of guild summits or self-styled "elephants."

Giving things to people, which is what I see her do on fleet, is generous and a one-of-a-kind player that demonstrates the purest form of helping others and making it entertaining. To a basic extent, I would see that's the epitome of what players should strive for if they want to truly help the environment they engage in. Now im not exactly saying everyone should whip out their digitalized wallets and do the exact same thing, but I do intent to address that helping others in your community, without expecting reward, is a positive form of providing help ( not necessarily if the person shares your guild tag but it could also count).

Giving things is not enough. the world keeps spinning no matter how many dyes, mounts, armor, and weapons she throws at players. One person is a start and she is always going to be that shining example.

 

@ Someone who didn't drink their coffee: you sound not only delusional but your contention that progression raiding is paramount for a servers health is ridiculous, small minded, and discredits you from any charge of elitism you would like to throw at others.

I never went into PVP because I would have been far more accusatory and hostile to some degree. I left that alone so I can sum up the full gravity of the situation there, but I only used PVE as a reference point, not as a full scope of depicting a meter of HP this server has. I don't touch RP because im no longer deeply in tune with the harmony that aspect of the same is in with guilds hosting it, and GSF I always seems to forget about. To say it discredits me from giving a basic definition of what elitism is potentially in this situation is tantamount to attacking me because you don't like what I said. keep it classy.

 

If you want to help the community help new players.

YES! YES! YES! Do it without an Agenda, do it because you care, it doesent matter if you think your better, do it all the same. its what made other communities a hell of a lot more alluring than this one right now. if anyone wants to take a jab and ask me to put my money where my mouth is, usually every day since I came back ive offered to help and support other people...pretty soon ill let them vouch for me if this scenario happens.

 

@ Dez:

Or even control what behaviors are allowed in their guilds.

Most well organized guilds have a code of conduct spoken or typed out on the guilds website

One of the points Zuhara made in one of the summits was that "people usually go into two camps in gaming casual and serious gamers".

By teaching people who don't know what to to or haven't refined their technique are you not increasing the knowledgeable percentage of the population

We all have to walk the elitism egotistical line carefully as to not bring the community down as a whole.

 

I agree, we do have to walk that line very carefully, but imagine what its like being branded "Elitist" and "Egotistical" at a whim. Players that ive come across, who style themselves as very integrated in this environment, use this term to brand other people who walk out of that VERY blurry and grey line. I've been branded Elitist and Egotistical for about 2 years now and I spend half my time discrediting that claim. Half the time, what I said gets twisted out of proportion and the other half is usually a smear campaign by someone trying to get people to dislike me. People get petty and they do things like this, its not delusional to think it doesent actually happen to anyone.

Now this "Two Camps" point is actually a really observant one and the reason why is its definitely two. the problem is when members in a serious/competitive camp look over as the "casual camp" and begin to think they are better than everyone in that camp or specific members. This mindset is so negative to the idea of a positive community that its laughable to me if anyone tries to make a defensive for how "being better than everyone else" is actually a good minset in restoring a proper community.

Additionally, the idea that teaching players does not increase the knowledge base of the community seems VERY FALSE. Lets create an example, lets say there is 1 player whos very knowledgeable surrounded by 1000 ignorant players in this game. if this one player helped another increase his knowledge base, by what percentage does it increase this knowledge base when its 2 players surrounded by 999? MATH HOMEWORK.

The first two things, im quoting you on Dez, is the nature of Harassment/Bullying. It happens. Its cruel, and it happens in Guilds with big player bases and those Hardcore Camp players who think they are better than everyone else. Sometimes people treat others like **** simply because they can. I quit the game at one point because that is all I saw in this server was people either getting treated like crap or treating others like crap.

 

Now to the post bigger than mine filled with all my Ranting!

 

PVP

If your group has won multiple matches in a row, consider moving to ranked. There are better rewards and the skill is higher so its more of a challenge.

Ranked is dead. I've seen it pop like once a week now. in July/August it used to pop a lot. if Group ranked is an exception, whoo-rah to the players who access that?

 

"This will also greatly decrease the amount of animosity being expressed after warzones. "

Ranked Animosity has less to do with Gear than Performance. Skill outranks performance. if you have less gear obviously you will do less than being at optimal gear levels, but the animosity ive seen stemmed from how skilled a player is with his/her chosen role. Many players who attempt to tank in Ranked do very poorly with not utilizing skill sets like Guard Swapping, Taunting, Ect.

Overall, recognize you're staring at one facet of animosity that turns people off to the idea of solo or group ranked.

 

Overall, a lot of the ideas are very solid ones and I personally will be looking forward to seeing the fruits these ideas bear. Thank you for compiling that!

[Monumenta]

@ Someone who didn't drink their coffee...

...keep it classy.

 

Get over yourself, maybe look to your own advice and actually follow it.

 

I'm sure we could all benefit from a bit of class, so far your posts in this thread have none, you come of as the specialist of snowflakes.

 

I've been branded Elitist and Egotistical for about 2 years now...

 

This is not, in any way, a surprise.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Monumenta

[Varin_Korva]

I think that if you don't like something and how it's said, but you come off as equally offensive, that you engage in a hypocrisy of your own making. Its the scenario that you've become what you hate or act as you would despise, that the own worst enemy is yourself.

that's actually a gamers curse. you play long enough to get good at the skill sets you've picked up and watch as the tiniest deviation to your attitude has connotations and gamer-styled puns placed upon them. I think someone said earlier in this thread that helping the server is such an abstract concept and we wont be able to find the solution easily or if at all.

I can agree that helping this server is such an abstract concept with so many angles that we don't necessarily touch on, that finding an easy solution is not even remotely possible. what we're dealing with in trying to restore or help anything on this magnitude is, to an extent, our attempt to control and create standards for other people to follow. Dez mentioned difficulty in attempted to fit the reception he had within his TeamSpeak channel. it was a noble action to start this process and I think everyone can easily thank him for the thought and care of the motive behind the movement, but the subtle mistake of that elitist connotation behind who initially was allowed to be a part of that ( according to old forums) was the reason I created the thread. it serves as a cautious reminder of the damage that has been done in recent months and that if we are to create a new chapter in our server, it should be with reflecting on how abstract this is to change a community and a direction.

I can start by saying its not done through talking simply on a forums. it's not done to calling each other "Delusional", "Egotistical", "Elitist", or anything else I don't care to quote. If people really came to help the server, petty little things like that need to be the first thing to stop. Out of how many guilds there are today, how many died due to the machinations of petty individuals who cared nothing more than to further their own agenda or sow chaos?

And out of how many there are today, how many had chapters where people did cause that chaos and dealt with petty individuals who went on smear campaigns? if people truly want to change the course of what goes on now, attitude needs to change. now if someone here wants to give me a potshot and tell me to put action behind my words, I spend more time helping and giving advice to other people about navigating how horrible some of you treat other people than I do arguing with any of you on what needs to change.

I, myself, feel more inclined to hunting down the truth of the matter and adapting to the nature of what needs to change to be in a better atmosphere than being bogged down the labor of dramatic upheavals and selfish agendas. However, I still get tempted to exposing the flaws of things that have great impacts, but not to demean the process but to change the direction and provide a more refined prospect by the end of it.

Sometimes we don't always get what we want and the greater points and purposes behind the words get lost behind the glaring wall that some people just don't look past.

[-OBITUS]

<snip>

Ranked does pop; and not just group. If you don't see it popping, it is likely due to your lack of queuing. Anywho, queue up for ranked everyone.

[Rollbacks]

It's funny, really

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with Guild summits. Yet there's so much negativity here it's hilarious. If you feel it's pointless, that's great, go on about your business and let the people who participate waste their time. Those who are participating are clearly passionate about this and believe it to be to the benefit of the servers community, and frankly I don't see an issue there.

 

Some of the outlined goals may be a bit much, such as the server having active/regular OWPVP, but the interesting thing is that OWPVP is something that can be coordinated by guilds at the summit, so planning such events is a great starting point

 

As for the suggestion that these summits would never get the attention of Bioware, that's actually false. We know for a fact it's been done before, so let's not get ahead of ourselves making silly statements as if it's impossible

 

Good luck in the future summits

[branmakmuffin]

It's funny, really

A hoot, really.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with Guild summits.

No, there's nothing inherently wrong with them.

 

Yet there's so much negativity here it's hilarious. If you feel it's pointless, that's great, go on about your business and let the people who participate waste their time. Those who are participating are clearly passionate about this and believe it to be to the benefit of the servers community

What they are passionate about is self-aggrandisement.

 

and frankly I don't see an issue there.

Franky, in all earnestness and to be perfectly candid, there is no "issue." The point is, if someone posts, they are going to get comments, positive and negative. If they don't want negative comments, they shouldn't post.

 

As for the suggestion that these summits would never get the attention of Bioware, that's actually false. We know for a fact it's been done before, so let's not get ahead of ourselves making silly statements as if it's impossible

That's not even persuasive evidence, let alone proof, that the guild summit had any impact on implementing the features mentioned. Have any of the features been implemented or even been hinted at being implemented, aside from legacy datacrons (which is a request that existed long before that summit happened)?

[Varin_Korva]

This is actually what I mentioned before. the pettiness of other people to post negative comments smearing others because they simply don't like what was said. Its a standard tactic for really specific people in this community to brand others as being Delusional, engaging in self-aggrandizement, and spend the bulk of their time attacking anything remotely controversial or bold regardless if its true or not.

 

It's nothing more than a ignorant jab at a player without any legitimate facts or details to source their puns, insults, or sarcasm as anything relevant. All they do is further demean a process by which people express ideas and opinions. One of my hopes is that whatever comes out of these Guild Summits does not replicate the environment of the past.

 

Oh and Zeph, I'm currently about 60 games in so far in the last couple months on my off-time. Ranked is hardly even mentioned anymore.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Varin_Korva

[Rollbacks]

What they are passionate about is self-aggrandisement.

 

Your statement concerning their motives are as valid as my claiming your only motive here is to troll, and should be ignored

Franky, in all earnestness and to be perfectly candid, there is no "issue." The point is, if someone posts, they are going to get comments, positive and negative. If they don't want negative comments, they shouldn't post.

 

It's quite telling that this is the only server where the idea of a guild summit is met with such ire, and I hardly think its because this particular community is the only one capable of "understanding" the motives behind summits

That's not even persuasive evidence, let alone proof, that the guild summit had any impact on implementing the features mentioned. Have any of the features been implemented or even been hinted at being implemented, aside from legacy datacrons (which is a request that existed long before that summit happened)?

 

Whether they were implemented or not isn't the point. Fact is they did indeed get the attention of Bioware (which according to you was an unrealistic goal) and many ideas were exchanged and (by Muscos words) passed along. Implementation is an entirely different matter, and some of the things discussed are still likely to come

[branmakmuffin]

Whether they were implemented or not isn't the point.

What is the point? That people can hold summits that don't amount to anything?

[Monumenta]

I think all the people that do the summits are good people, I don't go to them because I think I'm too negative about a lot of the subjects (namely gsf group think but other things too), as shown above, hehehe...

 

I will defend their right to do so without being trolled for their efforts.

 

Being negative about them on this forum is an exercise in futility because you aren't going to dissuade people from trying. If you think it's a waste of time, complaining about them is even more so, let people try.

 

What is the point? That people can hold summits that don't amount to anything?

if you think they are wasting their time why do you care? just trolling as per your usual?

 

To the person who started this convo with holier than thou vitriol and now is trying to act like a white knight, again- get over yourself.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Monumenta

[CRIMSONxSECLUDED]

The Reception of the guild summits was quite awesome! if you have watched and read all the summit notes and recording you will see all that we planned is possible and as someone else said (rollbacks i believe) its a great starting point! Now if you think guild summits are a failure why do you care to post here in forums about them?

[TankCCMBH]

This thread is about as productive as me say that my 4 year old dogs left nut holds the cure to cancer but please, continue arguing as i eat this big bag of pop corn.

[alexhimbur]

OP sounds salty.

[branmakmuffin]

This thread is about as productive as me say that my 4 year old dogs left nut holds the cure to cancer but please, continue arguing as i eat this big bag of pop corn.

You're adding so much. How could it not go serious places?

 

if you think they are wasting their time why do you care? just trolling as per your usual?

Why do you care whether or not I care? Are you just trolling me as per your usual?

Edited September 19, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Rollbacks]

What is the point? That people can hold summits that don't amount to anything?

 

I don't get what's so hard to understand here

If the intent of this servers guild summits are to coordinate efforts among a large number of guilds to increase activity in certain aspects of the game, then the summit can accomplish that goal

 

They want regular Open World PvP? Two or more guilds from the summit coordinate this at least once or twice a week. Advertising in-game during the event (e.g: Help! Imps are attacking us on tatooine!) or here/reddit to get more people attending the events. They've accomplished their goal of regular (weekly) OWPVP

 

More Ranked WZ Queue's? Same thing, infact Ranked WZ's have pretty much been coordinated on most servers without the need of any summits,so just a matter of coordinating it all

 

More Progression? Raiding in general? Server-wide Events (RP or otherwise)? All realistic goals and plans that don't take much effort to get rolling regularly

 

What exactly are YOU expecting? If you can't see how guilds coordinating certain activities together can amount to anything, maybe it's your views that are unrealistic

[Monumenta]

Why do you care whether or not I care? Are you just trolling me as per your usual?

 

Im not proactive enough to be a troll, I'm more of a lackadaisical reactionary when it comes to others trollings.

[branmakmuffin]

If the intent of this servers guild summits are to coordinate efforts among a large number of guilds to increase activity in certain aspects of the game, then the summit can accomplish that goal

No, that is exactly what a guild master "summit" cannot do. People are too wrapped up in their own egos when it comes to things like this, which is why things like this accomplish nothing, except make a few of the more self-important participants feel special. They are welcome to clap themselves on the back and congratulate themselves all they want, if that's how they get their jollies.

[aztecknight]

Didn't see my guild mentioned in the roster and that's totally cool. We like to avoid drama. I applaud the effort everyone is making, but I advise everyone to take it slow. Our server is the most laid back server by far. Just look at the PVP leaderboard if you think I'm joking. We probably don't have a guy in the top 50. That's really what sets the server apart from the others and it's not a bad thing. I've raided in progression up until last year when I stepped away from the game due to time conflicts with work. And I fly competitively in GSF. It's pretty rare that I see the super flame wars and sniping at one another over PVP, GSFor Ops that I did on other servers. More often I see people helping each other out, inviting people to groups from outside their guild in all phases of play.

 

No one should worry that out server is going to be forced to merge because of the leaderboard or numbers of gamers doing progressive content. As far as I can tell everyone is busy having fun.

 

Like I said it's great that we have people who are passionate about the level of competition increasing; just keep in mind that the "flavor" of B.C is unique.

[CRIMSONxSECLUDED]

Didn't see my guild mentioned in the roster and that's totally cool. We like to avoid drama. I applaud the effort everyone is making, but I advise everyone to take it slow. Our server is the most laid back server by far. Just look at the PVP leaderboard if you think I'm joking. We probably don't have a guy in the top 50. That's really what sets the server apart from the others and it's not a bad thing. I've raided in progression up until last year when I stepped away from the game due to time conflicts with work. And I fly competitively in GSF. It's pretty rare that I see the super flame wars and sniping at one another over PVP, GSFor Ops that I did on other servers. More often I see people helping each other out, inviting people to groups from outside their guild in all phases of play.

 

No one should worry that out server is going to be forced to merge because of the leaderboard or numbers of gamers doing progressive content. As far as I can tell everyone is busy having fun.

 

Like I said it's great that we have people who are passionate about the level of competition increasing; just keep in mind that the "flavor" of B.C is unique.

 

Lets go boys lets get ppl in the top 50!

[Prapcaster]

I'm glad to see business is as usual on the ol BC. Carry on gents

[Lordmird]

Lets go boys lets get ppl in the top 50!

 

We do have people in the top 50..

 

EDIT: When I said "we", I meant players who play not only on BC, but other servers. As it stands currently, BC as a server has no presence on the top 50.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Lordmird

[AbashedDuk]

xd!!! Edited December 3, 2015 by AbashedDuk

[Elitestartrooper]

Problem with the server is very simple, from what I see anyway. There are a lot of trolls in this server, you can log on and entire time people are gaming all you get is spam trash talk and insults that goes on for hours as people just sit in fleet spamming general chat. Even when new people are trying to ask for help, they get a spam of degrading comments. Everyone should be reporting these trolls and push EA to respond, with a few messages going out from EA to people warning them ban coming if they do not calm down in chat the server will be greatly improved.

[branmakmuffin]

Problem with the server is very simple, from what I see anyway. There are a lot of trolls in this server, you can log on and entire time people are gaming all you get is spam trash talk and insults that goes on for hours as people just sit in fleet spamming general chat.

No different from any other server, or indeed from any other game.