EV and KP Nightmare Removal in Fallen Empire

[dscount]

Thanks for Update Eric!

 

So a couple questions:

1. Trophy rewards? Are those with NIM achievements (IE: wall Trophy rewards for each NIM Boss in EV/KP) - are we going to LOSE those 10 each trophy's and the associated prestige?
   
2. Any chance OTHER operations going to see the same thing happen? (TFB, EC, S&V, DF, DP)
   
3. How is LOOT going to work in the new 4.0 environment for OPS(SM/HM). Can you publish loot drops info?
   
4. Will we be seeing SET BONUS gear dropping in ALL the Level 65 Operations?
   
5. Will ANY of our SM/HM Achievements be getting WIPED out and reset? (IE: 0% done for each)
   

 

Couple more questions:

1. Will WORLD BOSS fights be getting upgraded as well? Level 65 with LOOT changes? (Golden Fury, Xeno, Eyeless, Mono not likey, but still)
   
2. Will some QA be done on the SCALING of these operations? I mean in the past the scaling from 8m to 16m has been terrible and to be frank I've concerns some DEV is doing the same crappy "Double everything.. click done" approach. Example: Mouse Droids and Lifters in Ravagers.. (Add one more and they still ALL went to same person, fixed lifters, but never fixed droids in ruugar fight for 16m)
   

Edited September 9, 2015 by dscount

[Toraak]

It doesn't say the Highlighted HM will drop better gear. It says greater rewards. This could mean More Mount drops, More Decoration Drops. It says nothing about a higher tier of gear in it. People are going under the assumption it is gear, and it is possible, because they haven't said one way or the other. So if the Highlighted HM doesn't drop higher gear level, then neither will NiM. We'll have to wait and see what they meant by the phrase Greater Rewards.

 

So to be honest your right I may be wrong, NiM may have higher gear to it, but it may not depending on BW's definition of Greater rewards.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Toraak

[KraytAssassin]

It doesn't say the Highlighted HM will drop better gear. It says greater rewards. This could mean More Mount drops, More Decoration Drops. It says nothing about a higher tier of gear in it. People are going under the assumption it is gear, and it is possible, because they haven't said one way or the other. So if the Highlighted HM doesn't drop higher gear level, then neither will NiM. We'll have to wait and see what they meant by the phrase Greater Rewards.

 

So to be honest your right I may be wrong, NiM may have higher gear to it, but it may not depending on BW's definition of Greater rewards.

 

If you look at a site along the lines of 'Community for TOR' you'll see theres 3 pve tiers of gear with set bonus. So unless they give com gear a set bonus then 3 tiers of gear would no doubt be sm, hm & nim/highlighted hm.

[Toraak]

If you look at a site along the lines of 'Community for TOR' you'll see theres 3 pve tiers of gear with set bonus. So unless they give com gear a set bonus then 3 tiers of gear would no doubt be sm, hm & nim/highlighted hm.

 

For previous Content correct, however if you look at the way they have said they are adding no more NiM content, they could very easily just make it Comm gear, SM gear, and HM gear, so only having 2 sets of tiers for set bonuses.

[KraytAssassin]

For previous Content correct, however if you look at the way they have said they are adding no more NiM content, they could very easily just make it Comm gear, SM gear, and HM gear, so only having 2 sets of tiers for set bonuses.

 

they could yes No doubt time will tell and if they do your way that's more casual friendly which makes sense for BW's eagerness to get new players.

[Psychopyro]

For previous Content correct, however if you look at the way they have said they are adding no more NiM content, they could very easily just make it Comm gear, SM gear, and HM gear, so only having 2 sets of tiers for set bonuses.

 

I would guess this, as people are gonna be pissed if they have to give up their set bonuses again....

[ivanhedgehog]

Why do I feel like there is more to it then this?

 

After reading replies here and reflecting on past decisions, I get the feeling they invited the top raiding groups, again, to test on PTS. They said it was too easy to for them to gear up on those NIM modes and they cannot fix it to make it harder....

 

bioware never learns from past mistakes because they never admit they make mistakes. they love to cater to the hard core types for ops even though it loses them subscriptions...

[KraytAssassin]

bioware never learns from past mistakes because they never admit they make mistakes. they love to cater to the hard core types for ops even though it loses them subscriptions...

 

lol no. If you thought tos and rav sm were hard I'm sorry you don't know how to play this game very well. And they have hardly 'catered' to hardcore types at all. but I'm sure you just want to be able to zone into an operation and basic attack everything to death right

[Ichikai]

Yeah that sounds about right, rather than putting some work in making these viable, just remove them.

If it broke, don't fix it, just remove it.

 

Classic Bioware.

[KraytAssassin]

Yeah that sounds about right, rather than putting some work in making these viable, just remove them.

If it broke, don't fix it, just remove it.

 

Classic Bioware.

 

If you thought they would ever put NEW mechanics into the rescaling of operations then you really had very high hopes Its not broken at all, the operations were hard enough to be granted top tier gear so why keep them in to confuse people.

[Psychopyro]

lol no. If you thought tos and rav sm were hard I'm sorry you don't know how to play this game very well. And they have hardly 'catered' to hardcore types at all. but I'm sure you just want to be able to zone into an operation and basic attack everything to death right

 

Sorry, but they have a history of this...

 

Invite big guilds that raid a lot...

 

Oricon, Pain in the *** when it was implemented because the raiders ran around in handed out gear and cried it was to easy.

 

RotHC, same thing. And then people hit road blocks so long that had to add bolster to the solo story content.

 

SOR, no matter what you think, when it came out, UL and Torque were both pains in the asses for the mass audience. Why, cause the raiders were again handed 192 optimized gear and *****ed it was too easy on SM. They even complained that SM FPs were too easy (thank god BW didn't listen to that nonsense).

[dscount]

If you look at a site along the lines of 'Community for TOR' you'll see theres 3 pve tiers of gear with set bonus. So unless they give com gear a set bonus then 3 tiers of gear would no doubt be sm, hm & nim/highlighted hm.

 

Very likely the FIRST tier will be the craftable version and the next two are SM / HM gear tiers. Would make the most sense if that was the case.

[Ichikai]

Its not broken at all, the operations were hard enough to be granted top tier gear so why keep them in to confuse people.

What?

 

Anyway, so the reason for this change is, they don't believe EV and KP NiM are hard enough to drop top tier gear.

Alright, fine, then don't let them drop top tier gear, let them drop the same crap as HM and keep their current vanity items. Treat them as your stepchild but don't kill them off.

 

FYI Pillar Puzzle and SoA did have slightly different mechanics between HM and NiM

[Tulmara]

Eric...removing content is NEVER a good idea...and that's all this change does. I understand the teams desire to alter it a bit, but simply removing it is just a terrible idea.

 

I agree, please look after the smaller guilds. Our guild of 2 to 4 (depending on real life commitments) who are all subscribers, currently farm the old raids for decorations, weeklies, loot and fun. This will be taken away from us when KotFE launches, same with some of the objectives in Conquests which will be placed out of our reach.

Cant you leave the old raids as they are now and still have your level 65 versions ?

[SebastiaanZ]

I agree, please look after the smaller guilds. Our guild of 2 to 4 (depending on real life commitments) who are all subscribers, currently farm the old raids for decorations, weeklies, loot and fun. This will be taken away from us when KotFE launches, same with some of the objectives in Conquests which will be placed out of our reach.

Cant you leave the old raids as they are now and still have your level 65 versions ?

 

Totally agree with you. Have a seperate lvl 65 version, but leave the old versions in game as well PLEASE!

 

If Bioware doesn't do this, I am boycotting ops until they do. And I hope a lot more players will do the same.

[Diviciacus]

I agree, please look after the smaller guilds. Our guild of 2 to 4 (depending on real life commitments) who are all subscribers, currently farm the old raids for decorations, weeklies, loot and fun. This will be taken away from us when KotFE launches, same with some of the objectives in Conquests which will be placed out of our reach.

Cant you leave the old raids as they are now and still have your level 65 versions ?

 

Your guild is four people.

 

The ops content is getting taken away from you whether they remove it from the game or not.

[KraytAssassin]

Sorry, but they have a history of this...

 

Invite big guilds that raid a lot...

 

Oricon, Pain in the *** when it was implemented because the raiders ran around in handed out gear and cried it was to easy.

 

RotHC, same thing. And then people hit road blocks so long that had to add bolster to the solo story content.

 

SOR, no matter what you think, when it came out, UL and Torque were both pains in the asses for the mass audience. Why, cause the raiders were again handed 192 optimized gear and *****ed it was too easy on SM. They even complained that SM FPs were too easy (thank god BW didn't listen to that nonsense).

 

Oricon was 2.4, you all started on the same footing gear wise, no ones fault some people raided and got 172 from NIM snv/tfb. AND WAS ON OPEN PTS. You yourself could have told BW its too hard but did you?

 

As for SOR. Sure they invited raiding guilds cause there were 2 NEW raids. There were a bunch of small but worthy guilds that got invited. Also you expect people to test the operations with old gear? hello why? Operations whether you like it or not are ENDGAME and not supposed to be done by just anyone, the should require some use of that brain in your head otherwise what's the point. UL sure was hard to look at where rocks are and balance a cross kill the adds and use your eyes must be a strange concept for players. Torque aside from fire being a thing that could take up your screen was not hard in the slightest on SM , HM was just a dps check along with using that brain of yours to figure out when to summon repair droids.

 

I don't really understand what you mean about handed out gear when everyone starts the xpac with previous tier gear and gains new gear by beating bosses or through vendors. You trying to say people got gear sent to them by the devs just so they could keep UL and torque at the difficulty (lol) they were? Thats illoooominati bruh

Edited September 9, 2015 by KraytAssassin

[KraytAssassin]

Totally agree with you. Have a seperate lvl 65 version, but leave the old versions in game as well PLEASE!

 

If Bioware doesn't do this, I am boycotting ops until they do. And I hope a lot more players will do the same.

 

Boycott away then seriously they wont pander to your desire just because you want separate versions. WHY would they leave in NIM EV/KP when there is 0 reason to. The experience you are getting in NIM is a larger health pool and that's it. There are no mechanical changes you will see between the two for KP/EV HM vs NIM. Leave it in and hand out 224 gear for killi g the same thing as in HM with 0 mechanical changes. yeah nah.

[Psychopyro]

Oricon was 2.4, you all started on the same footing gear wise, no ones fault some people raided and got 172 from NIM snv/tfb. AND WAS ON OPEN PTS. You yourself could have told BW its too hard but did you?

I did...

As for SOR. Sure they invited raiding guilds cause there were 2 NEW raids. There were a bunch of small but worthy guilds that got invited. Also you expect people to test the operations with old gear? hello why? Operations whether you like it or not are ENDGAME and not supposed to be done by just anyone, the should require some use of that brain in your head otherwise what's the point. UL sure, torque aside from fire being a thing that could take up your screen was not hard in the slightest on SM , HM was just a dps check along with using that brain of yours to figure out when to summon repair droids.

SMs should have been tested in 186 gear with NO set bonus or old set bonus gear. Not optimized 192 gear (which is the entry gear for HM) that is handed out for DOING the SM op.

 

I don't really understand what you mean about handed out gear when everyone starts the xpac with previous tier gear and gains new gear by beating bosses or through vendors. You trying to say people got gear sent to them by the devs just so they could keep UL and torque at the difficulty (lol) they were? Thats illoooominati bruh

 

During SOR PTS, the raiding guilds were given 192 optimized new set bonus gear to test SM and HM. What logical sense does that make. They should have made them test the SMs in 186 Basic Comm gear. Giving them 192 optimized for HMs is fine, because they should have had that gear type.

[Ichikai]

There are no mechanical changes you will see between the two for KP/EV HM vs NIM. Leave it in and hand out 224 gear for killi g the same thing as in HM with 0 mechanical changes. yeah nah.

 

No one is asking for top tier gear from them, are they? Hell it'd be pretty stupid if they did that. I think we can all agree on that. And like I said before, puzzle pillars and soa have small mechanical differences, so you're wrong there as well.

[Hockaday]

 

 

Yeah nah aye. Where EV/KP Nim are almost identical to their HM versions. NIM EC, TFB, SNV all do feel like NIM versions, when compared to HM. Otherwise you would see more casual guilds selling NIM SNV/TFB if it really was as easy mechanics/scaling wise.

 

Disagree, any pug can clear it. It's as easy as SM. The mechanical differences are extremely minor. I cleared it with a bunch of RPrs who couldn't clear SS HM, could barely clear Bulo.

[KraytAssassin]

I did...

 

SMs should have been tested in 186 gear with NO set bonus or old set bonus gear. Not optimized 192 gear (which is the entry gear for HM) that is handed out for DOING the SM op.

 

During SOR PTS, the raiding guilds were given 192 optimized new set bonus gear to test SM and HM. What logical sense does that make. They should have made them test the SMs in 186 Basic Comm gear. Giving them 192 optimized for HMs is fine, because they should have had that gear type.

 

1) obv not many others agreed or took the time to bother going on pts to voice their opinion then SM fine, HM was fine. Nim was fine. Bugs got sorted out and that's what pts was for at that point, not the difficulty really.

2) Yeah i know, the 192 set was given out but on live it wasn't so anything you say about pts is still under NDA most of the guilds invited tested HM though so it really is a flaw on BW's part they didn't get the more SM focussed guilds on pts. But sure, I can agree with that. I did 10/10 SM on the 1st night of 3.0 with basic com gear and 186 from NIM DF/DP. It was tuned completely fine tbh. People just expect to faceroll through SM without knowing how to play their class and understanding how to do mechanics which in SM there aren't many lol.

 

No one is asking for top tier gear from them, are they? Hell it'd be pretty stupid if they did that. I think we can all agree on that. And like I said before, puzzle pillars and soa have small mechanical differences, so you're wrong there as well.

BUT if it is in fact a thing NIM will give TOP tier, so BW is wanting as they always have to try extend the life of their content, making 224 gear for only a few ops and highleted HM means the larger population will take longer to get BIS. Leaving Kp/EV nim in the game would only confuse people and tickets would be opened about why it isn't giving people 224 gear. It really makes 100% sense to get rid of them. But they should make the titles go to HM instead. Oh man puzzle differences im so sorry for overlooking that so hard that deserves 224 gear and to be kept in the game.

 

Disagree, any pug can clear it. It's as easy as SM. The mechanical differences are extremely minor. I cleared it with a bunch of RPrs who couldn't clear SS HM, could barely clear Bulo.

Grats but reember its all one level at 4.0. Are EV/KP nim on par with snv,tfb and EC nim? Not in the slightest. BW knows this.

Edited September 9, 2015 by KraytAssassin

[Hockaday]

1)

Grats but reember its all one level at 4.0. Are EV/KP nim on par with snv,tfb and EC nim? Not in the slightest. BW knows this.

 

One of the first raids I tanked was NiM EC, it wasn't very difficult (this was when it was current content). Are they on par? No, but they're not that disimilar either. The fights have around 1 slightly different or added mechanic. Usually another circle or dps having to kill at the same time. It's basically HM.

 

NiM EV has slightly varied mechanics as well. Should we keep that in then?

[KraytAssassin]

One of the first raids I tanked was NiM EC, it wasn't very difficult (this was when it was current content). Are they on par? No, but they're not that disimilar either. The fights have around 1 slightly different or added mechanic. Usually another circle or dps having to kill at the same time. It's basically HM.

 

NiM EV has slightly varied mechanics as well. Should we keep that in then?

 

Up to BW and they said no delete it In all honesty its really not a big thing. What's done is done. Would much rather they just push those rehashed ops out at 4.0 and get working on the new ones they said are 'coming'

[-Spc]

This is stupid, removing old content and achievements.

You should just keep old operations at level they're at now, and put some new level 65 operations in the game in time.

 

Maybe levels are the biggest problem in this game, maybe you should remove levels altogether.

Edited September 9, 2015 by -Spc