Cinematics of Combat

[Chicktopus]

Whilst I've been waiting for KotFE, I've been playing this relatively new MMO called 'SkyForge'. The story's pants, the voice acting is terrible and it's a bit restrictive in terms of adventuring.

That being said, the actual combat is great and in my eyes is the direction SWTOR should be heading. I'm not saying *copy* this, rather 'take note of'.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

 

- You have approx. 8 core abilities per class, which are bound to... well whatever, really.

- LMB/RMB are bound to basic attack and a contextual attack respectively.

- As you use your basic attack, the RMB ability changes, depending on the number of preceeding attacks (up to 3 before returning to the default).

....- In the context of the Sith Assassin for example, this could be Lacerate->Force Slow->Thrash->Discharge.

- Abilities in the RMB context tend to be used more 'when required' than as a part of a rotation. i.e. LMB->RMB for a slowing attack, LMB-LMB->RMB for a strong 1 target attack or LMB->LMB->LMB->RMB for a strong AOE.

- You have two 'context' buttons. Icons are shown when they are available indicating the ability which can be used. These could be used for abilities such as Retaliation, or abilities which recieve proc-based buffs.

- GCD is not a thing, rather the duration of your animation dictates the speed at which you may execute abilities.

- Regular cooldowns do exist and are reserved for those abilities which are NOT bound to the LMB/RMB combo (with the exception of the default RMB attack).

- Additional keybinds are available for items/Mounts.

 

So, you may be asking what problem this system solves; The answer is twofold. Firstly, we'd be reducing the quickslot space and therefore keybinds required by effectively multi-binding the RMB. By using 'context' buttons, we can further reduce the number of quickslots by effectively not having a slot for proc-based abilities and only prompting for them when they can be used.

Secondly, with the removal of GCD, we'd have a less clunky, more cinematic gaming experience, with abilities and animations flowing in to one another, rather than abruptly stopping only for a different one to begin.

 

 

There are, of course, challenges:

-Abilities for the RMB combo would need to be carefully chosen and/or added to the class to fill in 'gaps'.

-Resource expenditure would need to be checked to ensure that resources can properly be managed with these changes.

-There would need to be a new way to view abilities and combos

 

 

Again, this is a direction, not a goal. I'm not saying "Do this thing exactly", rather "Here are some ideas I think would make gameplay more interesting"

[DOHboy]

Whilst I've been waiting for KotFE, I've been playing this relatively new MMO called 'SkyForge'. The story's pants, the voice acting is terrible and it's a bit restrictive in terms of adventuring.

That being said, the actual combat is great and in my eyes is the direction SWTOR should be heading. I'm not saying *copy* this, rather 'take note of'.

 

Allow me to elaborate:

 

- You have approx. 8 core abilities per class, which are bound to... well whatever, really.

- LMB/RMB are bound to basic attack and a contextual attack respectively.

- As you use your basic attack, the RMB ability changes, depending on the number of preceeding attacks (up to 3 before returning to the default).

....- In the context of the Sith Assassin for example, this could be Lacerate->Force Slow->Thrash->Discharge.

- Abilities in the RMB context tend to be used more 'when required' than as a part of a rotation. i.e. LMB->RMB for a slowing attack, LMB-LMB->RMB for a strong 1 target attack or LMB->LMB->LMB->RMB for a strong AOE.

- You have two 'context' buttons. Icons are shown when they are available indicating the ability which can be used. These could be used for abilities such as Retaliation, or abilities which recieve proc-based buffs.

- GCD is not a thing, rather the duration of your animation dictates the speed at which you may execute abilities.

- Regular cooldowns do exist and are reserved for those abilities which are NOT bound to the LMB/RMB combo (with the exception of the default RMB attack).

- Additional keybinds are available for items/Mounts.

 

So, you may be asking what problem this system solves; The answer is twofold. Firstly, we'd be reducing the quickslot space and therefore keybinds required by effectively multi-binding the RMB. By using 'context' buttons, we can further reduce the number of quickslots by effectively not having a slot for proc-based abilities and only prompting for them when they can be used.

Secondly, with the removal of GCD, we'd have a less clunky, more cinematic gaming experience, with abilities and animations flowing in to one another, rather than abruptly stopping only for a different one to begin.

 

 

There are, of course, challenges:

-Abilities for the RMB combo would need to be carefully chosen and/or added to the class to fill in 'gaps'.

-Resource expenditure would need to be checked to ensure that resources can properly be managed with these changes.

-There would need to be a new way to view abilities and combos

 

 

Again, this is a direction, not a goal. I'm not saying "Do this thing exactly", rather "Here are some ideas I think would make gameplay more interesting"

 

for the love of everything holy and nice...no

 

1) this game is not a hack n slash

2) it doesn't port well to mice keyboard

3) GCD prevents spamming, its a good thing.

4) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

5) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

6) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

7) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

8) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

9) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

10) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

11) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

12) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

5) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

[Heromofo]

I think the style would work well in swtor

[Chicktopus]

for the love of everything holy and nice...no

 

1) this game is not a hack n slash

2) it doesn't port well to mice keyboard

3) GCD prevents spamming, its a good thing.

4) THIS ISN'T A CONSOLE HACK'N'SLASH GAME

 

I'm not suggesting it *is* turned in to a hack n' slash, as I said -- I was providing an example in the context of this game. I'm effectively suggesting that the control system could be more customisable and animations be smoothed out to conceal the fact that there's a GCD, thus making the gameplay experience more cinematic.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I've played Skyforge quite a bit, while it's a good game itself. It's combat would not work well with SW:ToR. Each spec would have to be changed to have a 3 - 4 hit chain Basic Attack, and 3 - 4 "Smash" attacks (i'm pulling that term from Vindictus, it's the RMB attacks essentially) If SW:ToR was a new game, this would work just fine to change the combat style to the more active style of Skyforge, it's not new. The combat in this game works just fine, though I would like to see a WoW like GCD "Averaging" System, because as I know of it, in WoW the GCD fluctuates depending on everyone in a party's latency. (Note, I have never played WoW, so take that information like a grain of *********** salt). If you want a more active style of combat, but you don't want Skyforge, then The Repopulation might tickle your fancy, it's built on the same engine as SW:ToR, but a newer, less crappy and less modified version (it gets MUCH better framerate than SW:ToR also). I can't link it because apparently it's frowned upon to post links to other games in these forums.

 

Edit: Skyforge is far from Hack'n'slash. It's actually more akin to GW2 or Dragon Nest. It still is capable of Tab Targeting. He's saying that it's condensed ability setup would work well for SW:ToR, while I want to agree, I can't because of how old SW:ToR is at this point. And, if this was done, many people would leave...

Edited September 8, 2015 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[Damask_Rose]

I play Skyforge a bit, but I don' t care for it's combat style at all. To each their own.

[Chicktopus]

I play Skyforge a bit, but I don' t care for it's combat style at all. To each their own.

 

That's fair. I think there's a compromise, though. With a more diverse manner in which we could bind our quickslots, those that wanted it could effectively achieve much of this effect on their own. With animations averaged out on top of that, we'd effectively have two systems which looked great, controlled differently and were mechanically identical.

[DOHboy]

That's fair. I think there's a compromise, though. With a more diverse manner in which we could bind our quickslots, those that wanted it could effectively achieve much of this effect on their own. With animations averaged out on top of that, we'd effectively have two systems which looked great, controlled differently and were mechanically identical.

 

not sure what you mean by "average" out the animations the animations have no impact on the skill execution itself. How do you account for people clipping an animation, using skills outside outside of the 'standard rotation"?

 

how do you ensure that one animation doesn't impact the meta game with its cross faction counterpart and give one side a disadvantage over the other (see force leap animation for instance).

 

how do you account for varying levels of alacrity that impacts the channeling, duration, cooldown and gcd of an ability but not its animation?

[Chicktopus]

not sure what you mean by "average" out the animations the animations have no impact on the skill execution itself. How do you account for people clipping an animation, using skills outside outside of the 'standard rotation"?

 

how do you ensure that one animation doesn't impact the meta game with its cross faction counterpart and give one side a disadvantage over the other (see force leap animation for instance).

 

how do you account for varying levels of alacrity that impacts the channeling, duration, cooldown and gcd of an ability but not its animation?

 

 

 

All good questions.

 

What I'm referring to is strictly called 'animation blending'. It works by effectively 'merging' two animations based on alpha values for each animation which change with time (this is how you can have a walking character pick up pace and break in to a run). As many of the animations are quite different, this would require the addition of intermediary animations in some cases in order to produce a smooth transition between the two and make the animations 'flow'. SWTOR already has animation blending, but the quality is, frankly, a bit shoddy and needs to be improved.

Due to the nature in which animation blending works, 'clipping' as you've said isn't an issue. Any animations with sufficiently different animations would require a new intermediary animation to create a more natural look, otherwise the animations remain the same and are simply blended at an earlier time value.

 

Let's take a transition from Wither->Thrash for example:

 

The current implementation:

Wither Animation

Left hand rises->Ability casts->Left hand returns to rest position on saber

Thrash Animation

Hands come around for first swing->Hands come down for second swing

 

The proposed method:

Wither Animation

Left hand rises->Ability casts

Intermediate (Wither->Thrash) animation blended in/out

Right hand moves for saber swing->Left hand grabs hilt at top of first swing

Thrash Animation

Hands come down for second swing

 

 

As for the impact on the game, there won't really be any. The animations remain fundamentally the same, just transition better.

Alacrity and GCD don't really play a role, as transition animations are short and 'blend' between two others, the transitions are simply sped up at the same rate as everything else.

[DOHboy]

so what are you willing to give up to have this? new content? content delayed 2 or 3 months? just have them eat the cost of doing this for no real benefit to the game that majority of people probably wouldn't really care about anyway.

 

everything has a cost and that cost is not free.

[Chicktopus]

so what are you willing to give up to have this? new content? content delayed 2 or 3 months? just have them eat the cost of doing this for no real benefit to the game that majority of people probably wouldn't really care about anyway.

 

everything has a cost and that cost is not free.

 

I don't pretend to know how BioWare structures its teams, but this change does not consume the development time of the entire development team, it only requires the attention of the specific ones responsible for these areas, much in the same way changing the tyres and brake pads on your car does not affect the air con or engine; they're only related in the context as a whole.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Chicktopus