What is everyone's thoughts on Channel Hatred not building Fury anymore?

[SVTCarnage]

I just came back to the game today, I have not played since 2.5. I was wondering what you Marauder and Sentinel players think about not being able to build up Fury through Channel Hatred anymore.

 

For those that are maybe a little new to Marauder/Sentinel, or maybe never played the class back in 2.5, I will give a short introduction to the class back then.

 

So in 2.5 you could build up your fury with Channel Hatred, what this did was allow you to use Berserk before the start of any fight. This mostly helped with Ravage, I personally very rarely, id even go as far as saying practically never used Ravage without Berserk in PvP. So here are some of the rotations you could back in 2.5 as a Carnage Marauder or the Sentinel equivalent.

 

With pre stack of 30 Fury you could essentially pop Berserk before a fight, and get off your Execute with Massacre after say a battering assault to go straight into a Gore to Ravage to possibly a Force Scream at the beginning of a fight. Or a example of a really hard opener/rotation,

 

Berserk, Frenzy, Bloodthirst, force charge, battering assault, massacre, gore, ravage to force scream.

 

So Berserk and Ravage still go hand to hand. So with how it is now you either need to use Ravage very early on in the fight because you do not want it to be on CD when you get 30 stacks of Fury for a Berserk. Problem with Ravage in PvP outside of Berserk is that it just does not do enough damage quickly enough and its very interruptable outside of Berserk

 

Now, their are some buffs and changes to the class in comparison to 2.5, so not being able to pre build Fury is not a big deal. I am wondering what everyone's thoughts are on Channel Hatred no longer building up Fury anymore, and what your over all opinion is on the Marauder/Sentinel vs other classes and specs is right now?

 

Mine is that it would be nice to have back, but as I said the buff and changes from 2.5 to now are pretty good, so I hopefully won't miss it too much, will see.

Edited September 9, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[wadecounty]

Should probably take a closer look at your utilities considering you just came back to the game today.

[SVTCarnage]

Should probably take a closer look at your utilities considering you just came back to the game today.

 

Hah, I cannot believe I over looked that, its the very last utility, thanks. Wow that is horrible, well I am glad to see they didn't take it away. Building fury out out combat is a very nice utility by itself, but coupled with -15 seconds off of Intimidating Roar's 57 second cd, well that is just the ****.

 

Well thanks for the reply man, wow, guess this thread is a whole lot of pointless

[Racter]

Hah, I cannot believe I over looked that, its the very last utility, thanks. Wow that is horrible, well I am glad to see they didn't take it away. Building fury out out combat is a very nice utility by itself, but coupled with -15 seconds off of Intimidating Roar's 57 second cd, well that is just the ****.

 

Well thanks for the reply man, wow, guess this thread is a whole lot of pointless

 

Not necessarily. That utility is garbage, you should be able to build stacks with it without using any utility points, let alone a heroic one. Your point is, relatively speaking, still valid. With the current state of the game, you really can't get around using the 2 Predation talents if you want to actually do anything other than walk around in quick sand, especially as Carnage.

[Vodrin]

Not necessarily. That utility is garbage, you should be able to build stacks with it without using any utility points, let alone a heroic one. Your point is, relatively speaking, still valid. With the current state of the game, you really can't get around using the 2 Predation talents if you want to actually do anything other than walk around in quick sand, especially as Carnage.

 

It's a real debate to debate the worth of the utility versus other options like the saber ward/blade barrier heal and extended undying. The predation/trans root break is pretty much mandatory, but the other top utility options are all a bit lackluster in my opinion. Several are OK, but really pale in comparison to what some of the other AC's get.

[SVTCarnage]

Predation should only be used to escape yourself out of a situation (kite, run away, etc), and or the semi rare cases you use it to close the gap with someone. Anyway, I won't debate or argue with anyone on their personal preferences.

 

What is everyone's opinion on the stats to min/max for Carnage this patch? My marauder has level 55 min/max gear, not all the gear is obroan, but he's still a beast under 60 so will see what happens at level 60. Anwyay, I min/maxed for Power and Surge Rating 2.5, I like it a lot so far.

 

Let me know what your opinion is for the stats this for Carnage are this season.

Edited September 9, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

The only time I ever think of using that Utility is if i'm playing PvE content on my Marauder, which is like, never. If it was coupled with a more useful thing like say, Blood Ward, or maybe 15s off the CD of Frenzy i'd take it. But it's useless for what I do. If Strangulate was merged with the 15s CD reduction of Intimidating Roar, that would be nice. And Brooding was changed to make Frenzy, Force Leap and Dual Saber Throw cooldown reset each time combat ended (Kinda like that Masterful Talent that Juggernauts have, except more balanced) Couple that with the ability to reset the CD on Predation when you take the talent that makes Predation have a CD, then we would have a pretty good setup for PvP. Because each fight you start you would have Berserk, Predation, DST, AND Force Leap at the ready. That's not overpowering at all BECAUSE Guardians/Juggernauts have the EXACT SAME THING with their new Skillful Talent, coupled with their Masterful talent that resets the cooldown on Enrage, Force Leap, and Saber Throw. Minus the super speed and 10% Ranged and Melee Defense. It would still be balanced, because Marauders need this to become viable again. They are a Support DPS, they bring raid buffs and pretty decent Melee DPS to the party. (Our raid buffs are Predation and Bloodthirst)

[SVTCarnage]

Not necessarily. That utility is garbage, you should be able to build stacks with it without using any utility points, let alone a heroic one. Your point is, relatively speaking, still valid. With the current state of the game, you really can't get around using the 2 Predation talents if you want to actually do anything other than walk around in quick sand, especially as Carnage.

 

I disagree, but you have your opinion, I have mine. -15 seconds off of a 57 second intimidating roar CD alone is worth the utility.

 

Your not doing any damage using Predation, I use it but its rare when I do. Your benefiting yourself and the rest of your team more using Bloodthirst over Predation, but I'm applying this to warzones and especially arena. You can of course stack fury up without pre building it.

 

However, if you start a arena or warzone with fury stacked, you can start off immediately with berserk. You don't want to be using ravage without berserk up (ideally), like I said in my OP, its just not enough damage and is a slow channel. Its not to say that I don't ever ravage outside of berserk.

 

If you read my OP, I explained it. Especially in a warzone pre stacked fury is amazing, in arena it is helpful because you can berserk immediately usually forcing defensive CDs from other players early on with your pressure and quickly build up another berserk and now your in berserk popping frenzy to bloodthirst.

 

I can see it being easier for some players to use predation a lot. I am not knocking it or anyone's opinion.

Edited September 10, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[Racter]

I disagree, but you have your opinion, I have mine. -15 seconds off of a 57 second intimidating roar CD alone is worth the utility.

 

Your not doing any damage using Predation, I use it but its rare when I do. Your benefiting yourself and the rest of your team more using Bloodthirst over Predation, but I'm applying this to warzones and especially arena. You can of course stack fury up without pre building it.

 

However, if you start a arena or warzone with fury stacked, you can start off immediately with berserk. You don't want to be using ravage without berserk up (ideally), like I said in my OP, its just not enough damage and is a slow channel. Its not to say that I don't ever ravage outside of berserk.

 

If you read my OP, I explained it. Especially in a warzone pre stacked fury is amazing, in arena it is helpful because you can berserk immediately usually forcing defensive CDs from other players early on with your pressure and quickly build up another berserk and now your in berserk popping frenzy to bloodthirst.

 

I can see it being easier for some players to use predation a lot. I am not knocking it or anyone's opinion.

 

You're time away from the game is showing Bloodthirst no longer works in arena. You should be taking both of the Predation utilities, which removes Predation from the Fury system in exchange for a 30s CD and gives you fast Pred (old Carnage speed) + allows Predation to break roots for your entire team. If your team is melee heavy, that by itself is worth more than Bloodthirst individually, let alone being able to use it literally 10x more often (Bloodthirst applies a debuff so you can't chain them together anymore).

 

Basically, you should/need to take Brazen, Inexorable, Relentless, Defensive Roll, and Unbound. This leaves you with two spare points, 1 in tier 1 and 1 anywhere. For the first, I usually take either Overwhelm if running with a competent tank, or Maiming Reach if not. For the second, I take Phantom, the passive movement speed is nice, the faster camo is great, and the extra 2s on camo is amazing IMO. Basically gives you a second Undying Rage+ Minipred on a 45s CD.

 

Losing 45s fear sucks but in the grand scheme of things it didn't take long to adjust to it. I also basically gave up on Carnage, with how many ranged there are on my server (especially Sorcs w/ bubble blind) it's basically impossible to stay on a target for any serious length of time, and when you do connect you almost always get CC'd.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Racter

[SVTCarnage]

You're time away from the game is showing Bloodthirst no longer works in arena. You should be taking both of the Predation utilities, which removes Predation from the Fury system in exchange for a 30s CD and gives you fast Pred (old Carnage speed) + allows Predation to break roots for your entire team. If your team is melee heavy, that by itself is worth more than Bloodthirst individually, let alone being able to use it literally 10x more often (Bloodthirst applies a debuff so you can't chain them together anymore).

 

Basically, you should/need to take Brazen, Inexorable, Relentless, Defensive Roll, and Unbound. This leaves you with two spare points, 1 in tier 1 and 1 anywhere. For the first, I usually take either Overwhelm if running with a competent tank, or Maiming Reach if not. For the second, I take Phantom, the passive movement speed is nice, the faster camo is great, and the extra 2s on camo is amazing IMO. Basically gives you a second Undying Rage+ Minipred on a 45s CD.

 

Losing 45s fear sucks but in the grand scheme of things it didn't take long to adjust to it. I also basically gave up on Carnage, with how many ranged there are on my server (especially Sorcs w/ bubble blind) it's basically impossible to stay on a target for any serious length of time, and when you do connect you almost always get CC'd.

 

Well thank you for that information on Bloodthirst in arena, but I still like using it in warzones at least if I am not being kited. Right now I am using Cloak of Carnage, Brazen, Overwhelm, Interceptor, Phantom, and Blood Ward. I am going to take Brooding as my 7th utility. My marauder is sitting at level 59, I started leveling a female rattakai marauder to get her ready for 4.0. I always wanted a female rattakai marauder, so I am going to transfer my comms to her.

 

Anyway, I will just learn from experience, and adjust my utilities from their if I need to. So far with Interceptor, Crippling Slash, obviously your force charge stun as well, I have had or seen little situations in warzones that I needed Predation. You also have Force Camouflage, and I am now on The Harbringer now by the way.

 

I transferred off of Jung Ma, so I have never been able to get into the arean scene in Swtor unfortunately. I played at the beginnging of Swtor, quit after around rank 30 something (back then ranking up was a lot of Warzones, so rank 30 something took awhile, and no I was not even max level at the time). Tried to get into solo ranked arena, you'd be lucky to get one Q within 3 hours. With that said, I have always had use for Bloodthirst, but if you can't use it in Ranked Arena then Predation in ranked arena here we go.

 

Id ideally like to talk to maybe the current top 3 solo or team ranked marauders, to see what they are doing. Even then, I mean I am sitting at 2k in 3v3's in WoW right now on a undergeared frost dk that I leveled recently. The highest ranked marauder is around 2k, impressive enough that I would hear or read about their opinion, but I even still would haft to learn from my own personal experience. Otherwise I would haft to see some solid gameplay of a marauder using Predation more then Berserk in a arena or warzone.

 

Yea I haven't played since 2.5, but this is not the first time I have heard people complaining about their Marauders being kited, not that you Racter specifically are complaining about marauder movement or being kited. Its just not my first rodeo, I will say that.

 

Yea this thread is useless, I stated that after my first reply to the first answer I got. I have been more active then I like to be on the forums, I am trying to figure things out obviously. Mostly right now its trying to figure out my strategy for 4.0, do I try to push this season in solo ranked or not. That means over 20k comms, and 2 million credits, and in one month 4.0 is here. Do I think it is doable? Do I think I can get within the top 3 maybe solo ranked marauders? Sure, if the Q's are fast enough, but that is gamble, because I don't know how the Q's are for certain.

 

Long *** post, but I will say Racter I respect you and anyone's opinion, and I am always up to try new things. I will give Annihilation a look, but I doubt I will play it over Carnage, but you never know.

Edited September 11, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[Racter]

Pushing in this game is generally a several week long activity, not something you can bang out in a night. Even at peak hours on the best server for it (Harb) solo q pops far slower than 2s or 3s in WoW. I wish you luck either way you decide to go, though!

[SVTCarnage]

Pushing in this game is generally a several week long activity, not something you can bang out in a night. Even at peak hours on the best server for it (Harb) solo q pops far slower than 2s or 3s in WoW. I wish you luck either way you decide to go, though!

 

Yea my Frost DK is sitting at 2k in 3v3's right now, not even fully geared, guess how long that took running Arthas Cleave? Hah, one night hah. Sindragosa's breathe with desecrated ground immunity and strangulate, its a hilarious, but awesome comp I will haft to say.

 

Your right, yea I actually came across another thread that convinced me it would be wiser to just boost a female rattakai marauder like I want to 60 when 4.0 comes out giving her all my comms, and just level my BH for now, still never completed the BH story.

 

I just uploaded this, its just 57 - 58, don't take me too seriously on Predation jokes its purely for humor, I know these are not the best PvPers ever. I do have unlisted videos from 2.5 with operative 1v1, assassin, and a sorceror among other 2.5 videos that are listed. Unfortunately, no ranked arena montages or anything like, but I plan to hopefully change that 4.0.

 

level 57 - 58 Carnage gameplay highlights

Edited September 11, 2015 by SVTCarnage

[Racter]

Yea my Frost DK is sitting at 2k in 3v3's right now, not even fully geared, guess how long that took running Arthas Cleave? Hah, one night hah. Sindragosa's breathe with desecrated ground immunity and strangulate, its a hilarious, but awesome comp I will haft to say.

 

Your right, yea I actually came across another thread that convinced me it would be wiser to just boost a female rattakai marauder like I want to 60 when 4.0 comes out giving her all my comms, and just level my BH for now, still never completed the BH story.

 

I just uploaded this, its just 57 - 58, don't take me too seriously on Predation jokes its purely for humor, I know these are not the best PvPers ever. I do have unlisted videos from 2.5 with operative 1v1, assassin, and a sorceror among other 2.5 videos that are listed. Unfortunately, no ranked arena montages or anything like, but I plan to hopefully change that 4.0.

 

level 57 - 58 Carnage gameplay highlights

 

Speaking of BH, you may find Powertech actually more fitting for what you're used to. They are basically DKs on roids with no Conversion and 30M range Obliterate lol. Not sure if 1h Frost is a thing now, out of touch.

 

I forgot to mention this earlier, but if you are not using Relentless, you definitely don't want to be using Predation all the time as it's a huge DPS loss. Also, level 57 you got an ability called Devasting Blast, drag Scream off your bar and put that there. Straight upgrade, intended replacement =P

 

There is also a setting in the menu (Esc > Pref > UI > About halfway down) for cooldown timers and you can enable target of target in the UI editor if you'd like. Drives me nuts not having them lol

[SVTCarnage]

Actually my dk has the lowest amount of hours played. I have played WoW off and on since vanilla, mostly played a Shadowpriest, then a rogue, then a fire mage. I can honestly play any class, its just what I am having more fun with. 1h does more over all dmg I think for frost, but I have only played two handed.

 

If you know much about innovative ordance vs arsenal I'm not sure which to try out first.

 

I thought devastating blast was a level 60 ability, oh well.

 

Yea I use target of target in WoW, thanks I will turn that on.

Edited September 11, 2015 by SVTCarnage