Master Yoda Respect Thread

[S_W_LeGenD]

Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

 

Mastery over midi-chlorian manipulation confirmed tbh.

Darth Plagueis did acquire expertise of midichlorian manipulation but he still had avenues to explore with this knowledge.

 

 

From Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

 

He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest.

 

 

---

 

And Krayt achieved immortality regardless of how he did it.

Like Revan?

 

Vong experiments prolonged Darth Krayt's corporeal lifespan, he doesn't deserves credit for this. If he found some other way to extend his corporeal lifespan at a later stage during his reign as the Dark Lord, then he can be given credit for this newfound talent.

Edited August 28, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Beniboybling]

Great, fact is you claimed only Vitiate and the Ones achieved corporeal "immortality", that is false. Whether you believe it to be impressive or not is besides the point, this isn't a dick measuring contest.

 

Not sure what you're point is regarding that Plagueis quote, unless you can prove Vitiate could have lived forever?

Edited August 28, 2015 by Beniboybling

[S_W_LeGenD]

Great, fact is you claimed only Vitiate and the Ones achieved corporeal "immortality", that is false. Whether you believe it to be impressive or not is besides the point, this isn't a dick measuring contest.

There might be others but Yoda is not one of them.

 

Not sure what you're point is regarding that Plagueis quote, unless you can prove Vitiate could have lived forever?

Darth Plagueis was absolutely interested in achieving corporeal immortality and he was exploring ways to achieve it but was stopped during the course of his experiments. I'd say that he was in the middle-ground of achieving his ultimate goal, but was stopped by Darth Sidious.

 

Vitiate didn't had shortage of resources and capability to prolong his corporeal lifespan. Nathema event (alone) served as the basis for extended corporeal lifespan for indefinite period. Vitiate could repeat it or orchestrate new ways to prolong his corporeal lifespan if necessary.

Edited August 28, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Beniboybling]

There might be others but Yoda is not one of them.

That was never the point, point was that Yoda has a potential means of averting death, if only temporarily.

Vitiate didn't had shortage of resources and capability to prolong his corporeal lifespan. Nathema event (alone) served as the basis for extended corporeal lifespan for indefinite period. Vitiate could repeat it or orchestrate new ways to prolong his corporeal lifespan if necessary.

That's an assumption, even the Father, who is never stated to have any limitations, succumbed to old age, you're assuming that Vitiate is unrestricted simply because nothing says otherwise. I don't find that very compelling.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Beniboybling

[S_W_LeGenD]

That was never the point, point was that Yoda has a potential means of averting death, if only temporarily.

My contention is that it is not officially confirmed that he 'actually' prolonged his corporeal lifespan or acquired this talent as far as I am aware.

 

That's an assumption, even the Father, who is never stated to have any limitations, succumbed to old age, you're assuming that Vitiate is unrestricted simply because nothing says otherwise. I don't find that very compelling.

My assumption has basis. Vitiate managed to prolong his corporeal lifespan for over 1300 years from a single ritual and nowhere it is asserted that he was in danger of dying. He had the capability and options to prolong his corporeal lifespan for like ever. He relentlessly pursed the matters of immortality.

 

I don't recall Father consuming worlds or performing rituals to prolong his corporeal existence.

Edited August 28, 2015 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

Yoda isn't necessarily immortal, he was just able to use the Force to stave off death from aging and sickness for a time. Certainly Yoda likely would have been able to do so longer, but he wouldn't be able to do so indefinitely, which is what he says himself.

[divinecynic]

That was never the point, point was that Yoda has a potential means of averting death, if only temporarily.

That's an assumption, even the Father, who is never stated to have any limitations, succumbed to old age, you're assuming that Vitiate is unrestricted simply because nothing says otherwise. I don't find that very compelling.

 

Actually doesn't the Revan novel actually says that Vitiate and Scourge are immortal in the sense of agelessness. Plus Scourge's dialogue in game goes along with it.

 

Do we actually know that the Father did succumb to old age? I grant he looks old but was he really weakened in any real sense? Also couldn't the aging have happened far in the past before the Ones became gods? I may have missed something in the episode.

 

As to Yoda, not knowing much about his species, it is hard to say much about lifespan. However Yoda was pretty much Palp's equal and yeah that makes him top dog over Vitiate hands down.

 

Edit: Speaking of Sidious and Yoda, it always seems to me that for the most of their fight Yoda is winning. That's an interesting question, was Yoda more powerful that Sidious.

Edited August 30, 2015 by divinecynic

[cs_zoltan]

Edit: Speaking of Sidious and Yoda, it always seems to me that for the most of their fight Yoda is winning. That's an interesting question, was Yoda more powerful that Sidious.

 

In RotS they were pretty much equal. But that was 200 years after Yoda's prime.

[divinecynic]

In RotS they were pretty much equal. But that was 200 years after Yoda's prime.

 

I was actually thinking about this and I remember the old Bantha's Tracks newsletter rating Yoda as the most powerful force user of all time. Granted this was way back in the 80s before RoTJ was even out.

[Kaedusz]

Edit: Speaking of Sidious and Yoda, it always seems to me that for the most of their fight Yoda is winning. That's an interesting question, was Yoda more powerful that Sidious.

 

No he wasn't, it's not an interesting question and he isn't.

 

/sigh

 

Regarding Yoda's immortality. Even if he was and he is not he wouldn't want to keep living. Jedi f ap to the idea of not being attached to the physical world and being immersed in the force as much as possible.

Sticking around and keeping individuality in the material realm is a sith's thing.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

Actually the script combined with the film make it pretty clear Sidious was losing. Yoda was likely stronger. Edited August 30, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

Actually the script combined with the film make it pretty clear Sidious was losing. Yoda was likely stronger.

 

I get it. You are trying to not disturb the cringe fest that is this thread(props to Aurbere's hard work though)

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

I get it. You are trying to not disturb the cringe fest that is this thread(props to Aurbere's hard work though)

Cute, but sadly you're mistaken. Yoda > ROTS Sidious.

[Kaedusz]

Cute, but sadly you're mistaken. Yoda > ROTS Sidious.

 

Go tell Yoda that, i am sure he would be delighted to hear he could have killed Sidious in the Senate room and not leave drained and in failure.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

Go tell Yoda that, i am sure he would be delighted to hear he could have killed Sidious in the Senate room.

Well he almost did, like here:

YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber but recovers with a BLAST OF ENERGY from his hands that surrounds YODA. YODA is deflecting the Sith Lord's lightning bolts.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith script

And then again here:

The energy bolts begin to arc back on the Emperor. It looks as if the Dark Lord is doomed.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith script

And it turns out Yoda won their final Force engagement, but was blown off the podium as a result:

YODA blocks the lightning and throws PALPATINE backwards off the podium. YODA is knocked off the Podium and falls several hundred feet to the base of the Podium. PALPATINE follows in his pod, searching for YODA.

 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith script

Let's be honest, Sidious was lucky to escape that situation alive, and it certainly wasn't because he was stronger.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

snip

 

I didn't find a single evidence that Yoda is even equal to Sidious in the quotes you posted and you somehow conclude that he is stronger of all things.

Close to equal yes, but never stronger

 

Not to mention that the movie itself and the book paints an even worse picture.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

Same thing with Vitiate and Sidious.

How is it that i didn't find a single evidence that Yoda is even equal to Sidious in the quotes you posted and you somehow conclude that he is stronger of all things.

Close to equal yes, but never stronger

You really want me to answer that question? I'll be nice and refrain.

 

Anyway, care to explain how being disarmed in a lightsaber duel, and having you're lighting contained and repelled twice is not proof of Yoda's superiority? On top of the fact that Yoda overpowered him in a saber lock twice over?

Not to mention that the movie itself and the book paints an even worse picture.

The movie only supports the notion, and the novel doesn't even described the events of the fight correctly. Edited August 30, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

 

Anyway, care to explain how being disarmed in a lightsaber duel, and having you're lighting contained and repelled twice is not proof of Yoda's superiority?

 

I just don't find it enough to make him more powerful. Momentary ''victories'' are nothing.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

I just don't find it enough to make him more powerful. Momentary ''victories'' are nothing.

Feel free to elaborate with... well anything.

[SWFTW]

The most compelling argument against Yoda is that if he really was stronger, he wouldn't have ran away and put himself in exile. He confronted Sidious with the intention of killing him, and it doesn't make sense for him to retreat if he was still capable of doing that. Even less so for him to never try again.

 

The problem Lucas was faced with was Yoda had to lose, but he didn't want to taint Yoda's memory. The result was a fight that makes no sense, where Yoda flees despite supposedly having the upper hand.

 

Anyway, OT, great thread Aurbere. I'm a massive Yoda fan and I love it.

Edited August 30, 2015 by SWFTW

[Rhyltran]

The most compelling argument against Yoda is that if he really was stronger, he wouldn't have ran away and put himself in exile. He confronted Sidious with the intention of killing him, and it doesn't make sense for him to retreat if he was still capable of doing that. Even less so for him to never try again.

 

The problem Lucas was faced with was Yoda had to lose, but he didn't want to taint Yoda's memory. The result was a fight that makes no sense, where Yoda flees despite supposedly having the upper hand.

 

Anyway, OT, great thread Aurbere. I'm a massive Yoda fan and I love it.

 

To be fair Vader is strong enough to lift up an AT-AT and crush it. Fighting Sideous again means he's older and even weaker. Sidious is even stronger (he kept getting stronger) and he'd be fighting Vader too.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Beniboybling]

The most compelling argument against Yoda is that if he really was stronger, he wouldn't have ran away and put himself in exile. He confronted Sidious with the intention of killing him, and it doesn't make sense for him to retreat if he was still capable of doing that. Even less so for him to never try again.

 

The problem Lucas was faced with was Yoda had to lose, but he didn't want to taint Yoda's memory. The result was a fight that makes no sense, where Yoda flees despite supposedly having the upper hand.

 

Anyway, OT, great thread Aurbere. I'm a massive Yoda fan and I love it.

Sidious had the high ground, that's why he won.

 

And let's be honest that was the only chance at beating Sidious 1 v 1 he was going to get.

 

I expect Yoda realised however that he wasn't destined to defeat Sidious, the novel in particular implies that his loss is more a philosophical and spiritual one, as opposed to a physical one.

Edited August 30, 2015 by Beniboybling

[divinecynic]

I just don't find it enough to make him more powerful. Momentary ''victories'' are nothing.

 

Wait are you serious?

 

Sidious lost the war. I mean if we are talking momentary "victories" and all.

 

Hell depending on your point of view, Yoda goes into exile to achieve real immortality and train the weapon to bring him down, Luke. Luke goes on to convince Vader to kill Sidious and fufill his destiny bringing balance to the Force.

 

No question Sidious is a beast. He is the Sith. However it totally fits the theme of Star Wars that Yoda is more powerful than him. And it's not like Yoda had centuries of experience on young Sheev or anything.

Edited August 31, 2015 by divinecynic

[cs_zoltan]

Why are you even trying Beni? We all know jedi suck and sith are cool.

[Beniboybling]

This is true, but I make an exception for Yoda.