PJChattyman Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Hello QUICK NOTE This is set out as an E-mail, I sent this E-mail to Bioware, so it won't make much sense if you think it's addressing you however I'd like feedback on it. PLEASE devs take your time to read it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Just a few things to start with 1) I can't post on the forums because of my restrictions 2) I'd like you to put this onto the forums for me. 3) Please take what I've written into consideration ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In this part I'm going to outline what puts me off the game most of all in a list formation 1) The DISGUSTING F2P model. Before you brush over this with a passing glance please take your time to read it. Right so to start with, my sub ran out and being preferred now just feels horrible, it doesn't make me want to sub it just makes me want to stop playing. It feels like you, as a player, are being punished for playing on this model. The thing that gets me about it is that EAWare are missing a big opportunity to sponge more money out of us. I can think of several ways to both increase the fun for F2P/Pref players and you get your money. Yesterday I had to do Yavin 4 dailies on FOUR characters to get enough money to buy something from the GTN. Then I had to get a friend to buy the item for me and then move to each of my alts paying him back. I hate not being able to earn the money on one character and mail credits to him. Again, it doesn't make me want to subscribe, merely quit. *Credit Cap Extensions: Cartel unlocks that increase a player's credit cap by a certain amount: 100k, 500k, 1 million. The prices could be small so it allows the Pref/f2p to enjoy the game and unlock it through the 20cc rewards. *12x Experience toggle. Put an item in the CM or through legacy unlocks that allows players both Sub, Pref and F2P to toggle 12x XP. Being a pref now makes me want to claw my eyes out because I have to do side quests which I've completed countless times. I don't want to help Darth Silthar with his Czerka mission on Tatooine any more. Or collect Relics around Dromund Kaas. I've done it all before and I'm quite frankly sick of it. A toggle will make people want to level, spend money and they'll enjoy the game above all. Just one more thing about F2P/pref model. I'm sure you get lots of complaints about it, I just hope this E-mail gets through and changes are made. Warzone Cap. Now as a level 60 Preferred player I'm very limited to what I can do and again, this doesn't make me want to subscribe, it only makes me want to stop playing the game entirely. There's been countless times where I've logged in, wandered about the fleet for 10 minutes thinking of what to do, and then immediately logged off. I enjoy Warzones, it's pretty much the only thing I like to do, bar flashpoints as a level 60. To only have 5 warzones a week is atrocious. I blow through them in a single day and bored for the rest of the time. This is more of a personal preference change, but I'm sure other F2P/Pref would agree with me. 2) A toggle for 12x Experience. I covered this in the above section but I'll go through it in a bit more detail. I've recently made a new RP character called "Harstow" and I really think he's unique. However I want to do endgame content with him too, and I don't have the willpower (excuse the pun) to burn through sidequests, smashing my spacebar to skip cutscenes. I just want to do the main story and get to level 60 in a few days, but as a pref/f2p I cannot. Also I'm not talking about a 1 million credit 12x XP toggle because that'd ridiculous. F2P and Pref cannot afford it, and there's no way to sort of pay it in chunks. I can think of a system that you input the amount of credits you wished to invest into it, then earn the rest later and add it to the funds. That way F2p, and pref can unlock it. The model currently makes me want to quit the game, but I've went on a tangent. 3) Being able to purchase Sub time with in-game currency. A way to purchase subscription game time through in-game means. World Of Warcraft have done this where their devs decide the price of the game-time. This system would be PERFECT for SWTOR as it allows those with a low income to still enjoy the game. Again, I'm guessing the majority of the playerbase is a mix of F2P and preferred, so why not make their stay enjoyable. I know I'd subscribe if I actually enjoyed the game for what it is and thinking of the benefits subscribers would get. However using in-game currency to buy Subscription time would be amazing. However don't put the prices to over 350k or 150k. It's not right, because Preferred and F2P cannot afford it, this also is a factor into increasing the credit cap. Those are just a few things that would help the game and bring players back I feel. Again, please put this on the forums for me if you don't mind. I would if I could but my atrocious Preferred restrictions won't allow me. Above all, please take my changes into consideration, and please pass it onto the big guys that make changes to the game. I'd enjoy the game a lot more if I had more freedom. Thank you for taking your time to read this and I hope I can make some changes to the game. Yours Fathfully Paul Jackson --------------------------------------- That's the email I sent with the improvements. Please take your time to read this devs, it'd be appreciated. Edited August 25, 2015 by PJChattyman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) or better yet stop asking for free stuff and pay the damn sub and everything you want is acheived Pretty simple F2P needs more restrictions, not less And I can post this because I pay my sub that costs me pennies a day Edited August 25, 2015 by Kalfear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCARABBADKARMA Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 or better yet stop asking for free stuff and pay the damn sub and everything you want is acheived Pretty simple F2P needs more restrictions, not less And I can post this because I pay my sub that costs me pennies a day Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) snip This letter is one huge contradiction. On one hand he's saying people will shower them in money with the proposed ideas, but he cant give them a measly $14.95 for a subscription? Why is there a need for suggestions and ideas that will make them more money than they are receiving from their subscriber based model in place? Why would you suggest to them to take and make more money off people when you cant afford the $14.95 fee thats in place? Mind = boggled from posts like these. Edited August 25, 2015 by Mowermanx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJChattyman Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I was certainly expecting the eliteism to kick in, just not soo soon. Huh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJChattyman Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 This letter is one huge contradiction. On one hand he's saying people will shower them in money with the proposed ideas, but he cant give them a measly $14.95 for a subscription? Why is there a need for suggestions and ideas that will make them more money than they are receiving from their subscriber based model in place? Why would you suggest to them to take and make more money off people when you cant afford the $14.95 fee thats in place? Mind = boggled from posts like these. You're missing the point. People with a low income (minimum wage) may not be able to afford a $15 sub each month because they have to pay bills etc out of it. My letter merely gives the F2P/Pref community the oppurtunity to spend the money they do make on making their experience more enjoyble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaryk Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) I feel like you are asking for way too much. I think some of your ideas have merit, but the cost you're asking them to be set at is really low. I'm going to address them one by one. *Credit Cap Extensions: Cartel unlocks that increase a player's credit cap by a certain amount: 100k, 500k, 1 million. The prices could be small so it allows the Pref/f2p to enjoy the game and unlock it through the 20cc rewards. First, I agree that the credit cap seems harsh, especially considering the price of some of the items on the GTN, and I agree that an unlock to increase the credit cap would be a good idea, with a few caveats. I still think there should be a hard cap on the number of credits f2p and preferred players can have (maybe 500k/1 million or 1 million/2 million or something). I also think the cc cost you are asking for is too small. The unlock should be set at a price comparable to other cartel market unlocks. *12x Experience toggle. Put an item in the CM or through legacy unlocks that allows players both Sub, Pref and F2P to toggle 12x XP. Being a pref now makes me want to claw my eyes out because I have to do side quests which I've completed countless times. I don't want to help Darth Silthar with his Czerka mission on Tatooine any more. Or collect Relics around Dromund Kaas. I've done it all before and I'm quite frankly sick of it. A toggle will make people want to level, spend money and they'll enjoy the game above all. This one I just disagree with. I feel that the 12xp bonus should remain a subscriber exclusive perk, although I could possibly see a 12 xp unlock going on the cartel market. Besides, with the new expansion coming out relatively soon, the leveling experience is supposedly being changed anyway. I think it would be better to wait and see exactly how that plays out and then maybe revisit this issue. Warzone Cap. Now as a level 60 Preferred player I'm very limited to what I can do and again, this doesn't make me want to subscribe, it only makes me want to stop playing the game entirely. There's been countless times where I've logged in, wandered about the fleet for 10 minutes thinking of what to do, and then immediately logged off. I enjoy Warzones, it's pretty much the only thing I like to do, bar flashpoints as a level 60. To only have 5 warzones a week is atrocious. I blow through them in a single day and bored for the rest of the time. This is more of a personal preference change, but I'm sure other F2P/Pref would agree with me. They already have one way to address this in game. The weekly passes. I just checked the GTN on harbinger and there were a couple flashpoint passes for prices that a f2p or preferred player could afford. The warzone passes were more expensive, but if they added a way for you to expand your credit cap, then those would also be affordable. I do, however, think that this might be another place were unlocks could be added to the cartel market to expand, but not eliminate, the cap. A way to purchase subscription game time through in-game means. World Of Warcraft have done this where their devs decide the price of the game-time. This system would be PERFECT for SWTOR as it allows those with a low income to still enjoy the game. Again, I'm guessing the majority of the playerbase is a mix of F2P and preferred, so why not make their stay enjoyable. I know I'd subscribe if I actually enjoyed the game for what it is and thinking of the benefits subscribers would get. However using in-game currency to buy Subscription time would be amazing. However don't put the prices to over 350k or 150k. It's not right, because Preferred and F2P cannot afford it, this also is a factor into increasing the credit cap. I agree that it would be nice to find a way to earn subscription time in game, but this simply doesn't seem to be in Bioware's business model. If they did add it, however, the way I would prefer to see it would be making bundles of cartel coins tradable, so players could buy and sell them on the GTN. Bioware would then need to add an option to buy subscription time with cartel coins. This, however, is very unlikely to happen. Buying subscription time with in-game credits directly from Bioware is even less likely to happen. Buying subscription time for less than 350k or 150k will never happen. And for good reason. I can earn more than that in an hour in game, even when I'm not trying to make money. At the price your asking for, everyone who got close to level cap would have infinite subscription time forever without having to pay Bioware a dime. Edited August 25, 2015 by Jaryk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJChattyman Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 I feel like you are asking for way too much. I think some of your ideas have merit, but the cost you're asking them to be set at is really low. I'm going to address them one by one. First, I agree that the credit cap seems harsh, especially considering the price of some of the items on the GTN, and I agree that an unlock to increase the credit cap would be a good idea, with a few caveats. I still think there should be a hard cap on the number of credits f2p and preferred players can have (maybe 500k/1 million or 1 million/2 million or something). I also think the cc cost you are asking for is too small. The unlock should be set at a price comparable to other cartel market unlocks. This one I just disagree with. I feel that the 12xp bonus should remain a subscriber exclusive perk, although I could possibly see a 12 xp unlock going on the cartel market. Besides, with the new expansion coming out relatively soon, the leveling experience is supposedly being changed anyway. I think it would be better to wait and see exactly how that plays out and then maybe revisit this issue. They already have one way to address this in game. The weekly passes. I just checked the GTN on harbinger and there were a couple flashpoint passes for prices that a f2p or preferred player could afford. The warzone passes were more expensive, but if they added a way for you to expand your credit cap, then those would also be affordable. I do, however, think that this might be another place were unlocks could be added to the cartel market to expand, but not eliminate, the cap. I agree that it would be nice to find a way to earn subscription time in game, but this simply doesn't seem to be in Bioware's business model. If they did add it, however, the way I would prefer to see it would be making bundles of cartel coins tradable, so players could buy and sell them on the GTN. Bioware would then need to add an option to buy subscription time with cartel coins. This, however, is very unlikely to happen. Buying subscription time with in game credits directly from Bioware is even less likely to happen. Buying subscription time with less than 350k or 150k credits will never happen. And for good reason. I can earn more than that in an hour in game, even when I'm not trying to make money. At the price your asking for, everyone who got close to level cap would have infinite subscription time forever without having to pay Bioware a dime. I deeply thank you for a well constructed .. shall I say Argument against some of the proposed changes instead of going on an elitist rant like the previous 2 posters. But the bit where you said the cartel unlock prices would be a bit too small, I agree, it was just a 'on the whim' price that popped up. Still get people to spend money on this stuff by all means, just make it so that it can be earned in a fun way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaryk Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It would be nice if there were a few more achievements that gave the 20cc bonus, or maybe even a few incredibly difficult or time consuming achievements that gave a larger bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJChattyman Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 It would be nice if there were a few more achievements that gave the 20cc bonus, or maybe even a few incredibly difficult or time consuming achievements that gave a larger bonus. Certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heromofo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's 15 a month lol like cmon how can you not afford it i personally think that f2p is a foot in the door and to see if you like it. If you don't want to pay then sucked in really lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbloomer Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I agree that it would be nice to find a way to earn subscription time in game, but this simply doesn't seem to be in Bioware's business model. If they did add it, however, the way I would prefer to see it would be making bundles of cartel coins tradable, so players could buy and sell them on the GTN. Bioware would then need to add an option to buy subscription time with cartel coins. This is really hard to do when you give cartel coins for subscribing. I guess they could make it so that subscription doesn't give cartel coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaryk Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 This is really hard to do when you give cartel coins for subscribing. I guess they could make it so that subscription doesn't give cartel coins. That's one of the reasons why I feel that this feature, while something I would like to have, is incredibly unlikely to happen. There's also a similar issue with referral cartel coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinSpaghetti Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) or better yet stop asking for free stuff and pay the damn sub and everything you want is acheived Pretty simple F2P needs more restrictions, not less And I can post this because I pay my sub that costs me pennies a day You talk about how your sub pennies paid for this and that but your sub didn't save the game from possibly being shut down by EA within the first year, the change to the F2P model and the cartel market did. I've always felt a game like this as well as it's community should be encouraging more people to play regardless of whether they end up supporting it with real money in the end or not. Instead all you see is this "you don't pay so you suck" argument which is probably scaring away more people from investing in the game rather than encouraging them that the game is worth money. Edited August 25, 2015 by FlyinSpaghetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardorim Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 or better yet stop asking for free stuff and pay the damn sub and everything you want is acheived Pretty simple F2P needs more restrictions, not less And I can post this because I pay my sub that costs me pennies a day You do know that you have to be subbed to post... Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) You do know that you have to be subbed to post... Right? You know you can post during a 7-day trial, right? @OP: if the F2P model is disgusting, move on to a game with a less disgusting one. F2P is supposed to provide incentives to subscribe, not a viable alternative to subscribing. Edited August 25, 2015 by branmakmuffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dscount Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Subscribe if you want all the fun stuff. I think they gave away TOO MUCH with the F2P model myself. I do agree that an in game option to purchase time would be a nice feature. Like the WOW token you have BW set the price and control the flow. This allows folks with extra Real Life money to purchase in game credits and in game folks to get sub time without real life money. The whole CM coin thing would need to be addressed of course, but you get the jest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeristash Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 *snip* The only thing I agree with you on is the credit cap for preferred only. The rest of your list is perks. I've played dozens of mmos and whether free or paid, none of them has ever had a credit cap limit. They've had alternate money such as the cartel coins you had to pay for to get special items out the market, but in-game money? no. Quite simply because there is absolutely no viable reason to limit the cash flow. I hate to say it but that credit cap plays out like a hard line text book cash grab. If a former sub has 80 million credits on their char and decide to go pref, they should not have all their money taken immediately and be forced to scrounge for & waste cartel coins to buy limited time access to their money that they worked for. It's punishment & extortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Oh look, another person given something for free and demanding more. Your like the people at the grocery store who are given a free sample of whatever food product they are giving out who complain because they dont like chicken and demand to be given steak instead... As always: Stop being Chris Edited August 25, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monumenta Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I played as a preferred for a year and a half before subbing with no problems, multiple level 60 characters, ops every week, a bit of prog til I got bored of it, bought all my unlocks, full friends lists, did well in several guilds promoted to officer status. I got all this for 5$. All the restrictions make perfect sense and the game is fully playable, people just want everything for nothing be it rare items in game or sub-only restriction-less-ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therandyman Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 These threads definitely have a tone of "if I could do X without paying for it I'd drop my sub in a hot minute". The effort put into disguising that as "concern for game population/queue times/etc." is where the entertainment value of these threads is found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hello QUICK NOTE This is set out as an E-mail, I sent this E-mail to Bioware, so it won't make much sense if you think it's addressing you however I'd like feedback on it. PLEASE devs take your time to read it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Just a few things to start with 1) I can't post on the forums because of my restrictions 2) I'd like you to put this onto the forums for me. 3) Please take what I've written into consideration ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In this part I'm going to outline what puts me off the game most of all in a list formation 1) The DISGUSTING F2P model. Before you brush over this with a passing glance please take your time to read it. Right so to start with, my sub ran out and being preferred now just feels horrible, it doesn't make me want to sub it just makes me want to stop playing. It feels like you, as a player, are being punished for playing on this model. The thing that gets me about it is that EAWare are missing a big opportunity to sponge more money out of us. I can think of several ways to both increase the fun for F2P/Pref players and you get your money. Yesterday I had to do Yavin 4 dailies on FOUR characters to get enough money to buy something from the GTN. Then I had to get a friend to buy the item for me and then move to each of my alts paying him back. I hate not being able to earn the money on one character and mail credits to him. Again, it doesn't make me want to subscribe, merely quit. *Credit Cap Extensions: Cartel unlocks that increase a player's credit cap by a certain amount: 100k, 500k, 1 million. The prices could be small so it allows the Pref/f2p to enjoy the game and unlock it through the 20cc rewards. *12x Experience toggle. Put an item in the CM or through legacy unlocks that allows players both Sub, Pref and F2P to toggle 12x XP. Being a pref now makes me want to claw my eyes out because I have to do side quests which I've completed countless times. I don't want to help Darth Silthar with his Czerka mission on Tatooine any more. Or collect Relics around Dromund Kaas. I've done it all before and I'm quite frankly sick of it. A toggle will make people want to level, spend money and they'll enjoy the game above all. Just one more thing about F2P/pref model. I'm sure you get lots of complaints about it, I just hope this E-mail gets through and changes are made. Warzone Cap. Now as a level 60 Preferred player I'm very limited to what I can do and again, this doesn't make me want to subscribe, it only makes me want to stop playing the game entirely. There's been countless times where I've logged in, wandered about the fleet for 10 minutes thinking of what to do, and then immediately logged off. I enjoy Warzones, it's pretty much the only thing I like to do, bar flashpoints as a level 60. To only have 5 warzones a week is atrocious. I blow through them in a single day and bored for the rest of the time. This is more of a personal preference change, but I'm sure other F2P/Pref would agree with me. 2) A toggle for 12x Experience. I covered this in the above section but I'll go through it in a bit more detail. I've recently made a new RP character called "Harstow" and I really think he's unique. However I want to do endgame content with him too, and I don't have the willpower (excuse the pun) to burn through sidequests, smashing my spacebar to skip cutscenes. I just want to do the main story and get to level 60 in a few days, but as a pref/f2p I cannot. Also I'm not talking about a 1 million credit 12x XP toggle because that'd ridiculous. F2P and Pref cannot afford it, and there's no way to sort of pay it in chunks. I can think of a system that you input the amount of credits you wished to invest into it, then earn the rest later and add it to the funds. That way F2p, and pref can unlock it. The model currently makes me want to quit the game, but I've went on a tangent. 3) Being able to purchase Sub time with in-game currency. A way to purchase subscription game time through in-game means. World Of Warcraft have done this where their devs decide the price of the game-time. This system would be PERFECT for SWTOR as it allows those with a low income to still enjoy the game. Again, I'm guessing the majority of the playerbase is a mix of F2P and preferred, so why not make their stay enjoyable. I know I'd subscribe if I actually enjoyed the game for what it is and thinking of the benefits subscribers would get. However using in-game currency to buy Subscription time would be amazing. However don't put the prices to over 350k or 150k. It's not right, because Preferred and F2P cannot afford it, this also is a factor into increasing the credit cap. Those are just a few things that would help the game and bring players back I feel. Again, please put this on the forums for me if you don't mind. I would if I could but my atrocious Preferred restrictions won't allow me. Above all, please take my changes into consideration, and please pass it onto the big guys that make changes to the game. I'd enjoy the game a lot more if I had more freedom. Thank you for taking your time to read this and I hope I can make some changes to the game. Yours Fathfully Paul Jackson --------------------------------------- That's the email I sent with the improvements. Please take your time to read this devs, it'd be appreciated. While it would appear that the OP either subscribed or made use of a referral link (since he posted on the forums) this sounds a lot like: "I'm too cheap to subscribe, but I want the whole game for FREE." The OP wants permanent credit cap raises, apparently for under 20CC, if I understand correctly. The OP wants F2P and preferred to have the 12XP boost because (to paraphrase the OP) he is too lazy to level without that boost. No, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadtechSavant Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Sick to death of this topic comming up now every other week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) I was certainly expecting the eliteism to kick in, just not soo soon. Huh.. Yup you got me, im such a elitist LMAO kid you have no idea what you are saying if $15.00/month is to much for you to afford You have much bigger issues then a computer game and should probably be focusing on those issues. And thats not elitism THAT'S MATURITY and being a RESPONSIBLE ADULT You talk about how your sub pennies paid for this and that but your sub didn't save the game from possibly being shut down by EA within the first year, the change to the F2P model and the cartel market did. You types are scary EA THEMSELVES have already dismissed your above statement The Cartel market brought in much needed cash influx but 80% of all cartel market purchases were done BY SUBSCRIBERS F2P really had no long term or short term benefit in this game The Subscribers carry the huge bulk of the load and always have. And in case you are reading impaired, the 4.0 changes are DESIGNED to increase SUBSCRIPTIONS so so much for your broken and unproven theories. no one cares . That's nice You do know that you have to be subbed to post... Right? ummmm read the OP post, he actually answers your statement on subscription and posting might wanna try actually READING before responding next time. Edited August 26, 2015 by Kalfear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 You're missing the point. People with a low income (minimum wage) may not be able to afford a $15 sub each month because they have to pay bills etc out of it. My letter merely gives the F2P/Pref community the oppurtunity to spend the money they do make on making their experience more enjoyble Said it before and say it again if $15.00/month is to costly for someone Then they have bigger issues then a computer game subscription and should focus on those first There is PLENTY of F2P games out there for you to play No reason to diminish this one into those catagories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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