Slowpokeking Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 I tell you a little secret: What kills pugs that have never done the content before, are mechanics they don't know. In order to make it faceroll, the devs would need to remove every mechanic in NiM, that isn't present in SM. What we then would have is, wait for it.... STORYMODE. Also, why the discussion? In 2 Month it'll be actual content. It's not mech they don't know, but they are not willing to try or wipe. Even if you know all the mech you still need quite a few wipes on many bosses to do it well. Some bosses require a lot of wipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 14, 2015 Author Share Posted August 14, 2015 and that's how it already is when everyone knows tactics, so what's the problem? No, even everyone with achievement wipe sometimes. New players need a lot of wipes to go through a HM/NIM ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methoxa Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 No, it should depend on player level and gear. Level 55 HM/NIM, which drops 168-186 tier gear, should be Quite challenging to level 55 players with <168 tier gears Not really hard to level 55 players with around 180-186 tier gear. Faceroll to level 60 players with 190-198 tier gear It is based on the players skill not his equip. If one is a bad player DF NM will still be hard when going in with full revanite. But if one is a good player one can faceroll DF NM with full 168 gear. Gear is unimportant. The playerskill is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 It is based on the players skill not his equip. If one is a bad player DF NM will still be hard when going in with full revanite. But if one is a good player one can faceroll DF NM with full 168 gear. Gear is unimportant. The playerskill is important. No, skills and equipment both matter and I'm not talking about pure noobs with no knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmind Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Gear unimportant ? Tell that to the 4 now next to uninterruptable NiM Tesla death ray ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Gear unimportant ? Tell that to the 4 now next to uninterruptable NiM Tesla death ray ghosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouerTue Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 styrak in snv nim..during chained manif. your gear is really secondary behind group coordination in KB and interupts. i agree with the skill above gear concept, but it's not a straight line, there are levels of skill/gear compensating the lack of the others, like how progressing through ops, gear drops and experience you can overcome the lack of the other, taking the guy in full revanite unable to clear DF nim passing from the guy in full 186/192 clearing it with some wipes and the 168 guy clearing it not breaking a sweat. obviously those wiping at UL sm with 4/6 set bonus because they fail the mechanics OR the 2.5k dps check are going to start a progression from zero on any other OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmind Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 The problem there is that, for some classes, there are no interrupts to use. Take Marauders: using Force Choke will not let you DPS causing Tesla Death Ray death. Anything else (including stun grenades) for some reason don't work. So if Chronoshifting takes one of your main interrupters to companion fight, it cannot be replaced. So gear does matter, since the DPS need is pretty serious. Coordination is just in theory since game mechanics there are too RNG dependent. The other problem is that this repeats several times, so if a bad sync won't happen the 1st time, it will the 2nd or later. So IMO, it's not doable unless you select very specific classes for the setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memo- Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Stun grenades don't work because there aren't any. There are mezz grenades, root grenades and snare grenades. You are referring to the mezz grenades (they have a knockdown effect) and those don't work because the adds are immune to any and all mezzes. Your best bet are the root grenades. So those are available for every class. Other than that: -Marauders can Force Choke (which is a 1.5 sec channel for 4 seconds of stun with 10 meter range nowadays, so it's as much a dps loss for them as any action for any other class). They can also snare with Crippling Slash, or if they have the utility, root with Crippling Slash. (You might want to have the utility for 10m as well, since melee range is dangerous). Far from useless. -Juggernauts can Force Choke, root with Saber Throw with utility, or Force Push. Tanks can also Backhand, but 4m range is tricky. -Sorcerers can Force Stun, knockback with Overload, snare with Force Slow. Combine Overload with the Electric Bindings utility and it's a root as well. -Assassins can have all of the above, and if you're feeling dangerous, Force Cloak + Spike for an extra stun (or drop the Cloak if tank), but as said, melee range is tricky. -Powertechs can stun with Carbonize and Electro Dart. -Mercenaries can stun with Electro Dart, snare with Electronet and knockback with Jet Boost. -Snipers can root with Leg Shot, stun with Debilitate (but melee = dangerous) and knockback with Cover Pulse (which also has a root!). -Operatives can either snare or root with Sever Tendon (depending on whether or not you have the utility for it) and stun with Debilitate (but you know the melee drill already). --------- So actually, the class with most problems in this section of the fight is Operative, not Marauder. And even then, you could probably do the fight with 2 Operative healers, 4 Operative DPS and 2 Powertech tanks without having too much problems. The DPS check isn't very high, and while the healers and tanks are your primary add handlers, dps can easily switch in for a quick stun/root/snare/knockback as needed. Edited August 19, 2015 by Memo- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmind Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Cryos worked. Now they don't. As for DPS fro what I recall since a month back, in 10 sec max the ghosts are on the mid one, so 1.5 cast means 15% less DPS from that player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torvai Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Cryos worked. Now they don't. As for DPS fro what I recall since a month back, in 10 sec max the ghosts are on the mid one, so 1.5 cast means 15% less DPS from that player. A hardstun on one of the adds, aka a gcd or 1.5 secs actually gives you 2.5secs more time to dps the big ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmind Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 More than what ? You did not consider switch time and the practical killing of the rotation if you use F:C. In practice, total DPS of 12.5 sec broken rotation is worse than 10 sec normal rotation, specially for Annihilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trendiee Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I must be confused, because it seems like you're saying a fight that's been out 2 years and killed with any number of compositions 5 levels and 6 tiers of gear ago is now not doable on certain classes after being told exactly how to do it on each class... Edited August 20, 2015 by trendiee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overmind Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I must be confused, because it seems like you're saying a fight that's been out 2 years and killed with any number of compositions 5 levels and 6 tiers of gear ago is now not doable on certain classes after being told exactly how to do it on each class... Exactly. It's called broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoppinswtor Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 You need to factor in prestige. Mounts like Wings are still pretty prestigious. Making it so that any random pug group can obtain those kind of undermines their value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Exactly. It's called broken. Easy plan to make this fight super easy: have tanks and healers stun/root the adds giving the dps many more seconds to kill the guy in the middle. If even that doesn't give you enough time to kill it, that's called bad dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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