adormitul Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 You're serious aren't you? How did Obi Wan fair against Dooku? How did Anakin fair against Dooku? Seccond Anakin wasn't still a sith when the fight happened. Third what do you think was in Anakins thoughs for atleast 50% of the time? Yeah thats right he was thinking of Padme even though not showing it. Fourth he still wanted Obi Wan to be his ally. Yes that might apply to Obi Wan aswell. Face it by the time of RotS Anakin had surpassed Obi Wan as a duelist. Even Obi Wan says it. How is that a excuse that he was not focused on the fight that is a weakness not a excuse. Yes if he had a clear mind if he did not had mechanical arm he might have won but he did not had. We can not say he was stronger but he had weaknesses. No those weaknesses are part of him and he was not stronger the Obi Wan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 No those weaknesses are part of him and he was not stronger the Obi Wan. I'd think it's more to the point to say Obi-Wan knew Anakin's weaknesses and kept his head cool enough to exploit them. Impulsiveness, overconfidence and rage is a list of very bad things to bring against someone so well-trained in a defensive lightsaber style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valantines Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) How is that a excuse that he was not focused on the fight that is a weakness not a excuse. Yes if he had a clear mind if he did not had mechanical arm he might have won but he did not had. We can not say he was stronger but he had weaknesses. No those weaknesses are part of him and he was not stronger the Obi Wan. Momentarily weakness by far not permanent. Wich Obi Wan had the expirience over Anakin to exploit them. If the events before the fight didn't occur and we saw Anakin in its prime of the movie (as when he fought Dooku). The outcome of the fight might've been very different. But somehow Anakin had to turn into Vader as we know him so this was the way to go. I'd say plot armor took an efect there like it or not. As Spetulhu pointed out keeping your head straight into the fight is necessery when fighting a skilled master such as Obi Wan but that was just impossible for Anakin at that moment. Obi Wan knew that and used it. PS: This thread is about the Rule of Two not Anakin vs Obi Wan so please keep to it. Edited August 15, 2015 by Valantines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynxvablid Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 In regards to the duel between Obi Wan and Anakin, Anakin was stronger in the Force, but not the stronger of the two in saber combat. Anakin was good, yes. In fact, I would say that Anakin was among the best swordsmen of the Jedi Order. However, Obi Wan was slightly ahead of him. First, age and experience. Being about 10+ years older, Obi Wan had more training. He had also chosen to devote himself to mastering soresu. However, he wasn't ignorant of the other styles. He would've known Shii cho, used ataru at one time, had enough knowledge of djem so to train Anakin in how to use it, and he used a niman stance as his opening. Plus he was also a noted master of sokan, which is what he was employing throughout his duel on Mustafar by constantly moving from one tricky locale to another. Second, Obi Wan was able to keep his cool in the fight, which has already been mentioned. He didn't let his grief over Anakin's betrayal get to him. Third, he played on Anakin's weaknesses. Anakin's weakness was his pride, and Obi Wan knew this. At that final moment when Obi Wan had the high ground, he knew Anakin's pride wouldn't let him simply back off. He even warned Anakin not to make the attempt. When Anakin jumped, all three of Obi Wan's advantages kicked in at once, allowing him to defeat Anakin. In regards to the Rule of Two, Palpatine did adhere to the Rule of Two closely. It was Vader and Dooku who didn't. Vader had his secret apprentice, and later tried to get Luke as his apprentice. Dooku had Ventress, Oppress, and a handful of other force users under his influence who each thought they would become his apprentice. As far as Palpatine's attempts at immortality goes, name one sith who hasn't tried to seek out immortality in one form or another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 In regards to the duel between Obi Wan and Anakin, Anakin was stronger in the Force, but not the stronger of the two in saber combat. Anakin was good, yes. In fact, I would say that Anakin was among the best swordsmen of the Jedi Order. However, Obi Wan was slightly ahead of him. First, age and experience. Being about 10+ years older, Obi Wan had more training. He had also chosen to devote himself to mastering soresu. However, he wasn't ignorant of the other styles. He would've known Shii cho, used ataru at one time, had enough knowledge of djem so to train Anakin in how to use it, and he used a niman stance as his opening. Plus he was also a noted master of sokan, which is what he was employing throughout his duel on Mustafar by constantly moving from one tricky locale to another. Second, Obi Wan was able to keep his cool in the fight, which has already been mentioned. He didn't let his grief over Anakin's betrayal get to him. Third, he played on Anakin's weaknesses. Anakin's weakness was his pride, and Obi Wan knew this. At that final moment when Obi Wan had the high ground, he knew Anakin's pride wouldn't let him simply back off. He even warned Anakin not to make the attempt. When Anakin jumped, all three of Obi Wan's advantages kicked in at once, allowing him to defeat Anakin. In regards to the Rule of Two, Palpatine did adhere to the Rule of Two closely. It was Vader and Dooku who didn't. Vader had his secret apprentice, and later tried to get Luke as his apprentice. Dooku had Ventress, Oppress, and a handful of other force users under his influence who each thought they would become his apprentice. As far as Palpatine's attempts at immortality goes, name one sith who hasn't tried to seek out immortality in one form or another? Magna Ragons? Tulak Hord? Darth Kreya? Darth Bane? Dooku? Jacen Solo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valantines Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) In regards to the Rule of Two, Palpatine did adhere to the Rule of Two closely. It was Vader and Dooku who didn't. Vader had his secret apprentice, and later tried to get Luke as his apprentice. Dooku had Ventress, Oppress, and a handful of other force users under his influence who each thought they would become his apprentice. As far as Palpatine's attempts at immortality goes, name one sith who hasn't tried to seek out immortality in one form or another? Vader had those apprentices only to help himself overthrow the emperor. So he kinda followed the rule of two. About Dooku never say he did either he was too loyal to Sidious or he had too much with the war going on I have no idea. Or it was all part of Sidious's plan to confuse the jedi thinking Dooku was the dark lord of the sith. Edited August 16, 2015 by Valantines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Was dooku not older then Palpatine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 You must train a heir to the Sith legacy in the Rule of Two, someone that will most probably surpass you and kill you. Sidious didn't bother with any of that ****. So no i wouldn't call Sidious devoted to Bane's Rule of Two. In fact out of all Sith in the Rule of Two, Sidious is the least devoted to Bane's rules,outside of Gravid. ...So he wanted there to be 2 sith, whoopty ****in' doo. Sidious only used the parts that were convenient to him. For the rest he spat on Bane's Rule of Two. Or at least on the version of it that's preached in Drew Karpyshyn's novels. The Bane there envisioned the rule of two as a measure to make sure that weak little backstabbers couldn't just rise to power, and Sidious was pretty much the kind he didn't want to see rising. Bane considered getting rid of his apprentice when he thought that she was going to be a coward who was waiting to strike until old age weakened him. Sidious murdered his Master in his sleep to avoid fighting him, making him pretty much everything Bane hated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 The Bane there envisioned the rule of two as a measure to make sure that weak little backstabbers couldn't just rise to power, and Sidious was pretty much the kind he didn't want to see rising. Bane considered getting rid of his apprentice when he thought that she was going to be a coward who was waiting to strike until old age weakened him. On the other hand, even with Sith infighting rampant before the Rule of Two - does it really make sense? The Master knows his Apprentice must kill him but few beings are happy to die. So surely every Master keeps a few pieces of Sith knowledge hidden as an edge, and things get lost when Apprentices kill their Master by surprise. It's not a way to preserve Sith knowledge, it's a way to make sure more and more gets lost forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 On the other hand, even with Sith infighting rampant before the Rule of Two - does it really make sense? The Master knows his Apprentice must kill him but few beings are happy to die. So surely every Master keeps a few pieces of Sith knowledge hidden as an edge, and things get lost when Apprentices kill their Master by surprise. It's not a way to preserve Sith knowledge, it's a way to make sure more and more gets lost forever. One of the masters of the rule of two destroyed most of the sith knowledge it would have been all if the apprentice did not killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 On the other hand, even with Sith infighting rampant before the Rule of Two - does it really make sense? The Master knows his Apprentice must kill him but few beings are happy to die. So surely every Master keeps a few pieces of Sith knowledge hidden as an edge, and things get lost when Apprentices kill their Master by surprise. It's not a way to preserve Sith knowledge, it's a way to make sure more and more gets lost forever. All of that knowledge is put into scrolls, holocrons, writing, and more. Yes a lot of the sith kept some of that secret but on their death all the apprentice had to do was take those hidden secrets for themselves. That being said, there was a Sith who "Fell" to the Light. Then decided to destroy everything the sith had built up until then. Luckily for the bane line his apprentice was strong enough to stop him from destroying it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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