cs_zoltan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Telekinesis, on the other hand, is Plo Koon’s stronger point. Plo Koon’s greatest TK feat. In comparison to Malgus’ best feat, or perhaps . Not sure what you mean by that. That sentinel is such a noob, no cooldown text, ****** rotation, and he's a clicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Wow Aurbere, quite the tantrum you threw there. I don't have time to respond right now, but what I basically read was the recipe for disaster. -4 cups (to many) Revan fanboism - 3 Tbs. blatant use of speculation to prove a game mechanic - 2 sticks of game mechanic - one whole complete disregard for feats that I have given. Let sit for a while and it turns into........ A miffed Aurbere's post!!!! People tend to get upset when you ignore facts. Which is basically your entire Bastila vs Revan and Satele vs Malgus arguments. Edit: I honestly never thought I'd see the day I get called a Revan fanboyism. But if thinking Revan beats Bastila pretty hard makes you a fanboy, then so be it. You don't know what a real Revan fanboy looks like, Mudkip. You've never seen it. So keep the ad hominem out of this. Edited August 4, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm aware. But is that feat credited due to Shatterpoint? Well according one respect thread and wookieepedia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Not sure what you mean by that. That sentinel is such a noob, no cooldown text, ****** rotation, and he's a clicker. OK, well ignore the guy playing and focus on the part where Malgus chokes the three guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Well according one respect thread and wookieepedia... Is it confirmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Is it confirmed? Don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Don't think so. TK has shattered objects before, so if Shatterpoint isn't confirmed then straight TK is better. I mean, unless Mudkip wants to diminish the impressiveness of the feat. That's totally cool with me, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111023052411/starwars/images/6/6f/Shannerpoint.jpgThat's not shatterpoint. That's called breaking a door. Big difference. If it were shatterpoint the tell tale pattern wouldn't be absent. It's obvious that Satele wasn't targeting any particular structural weakness, but was just blowing it open with pure force. And as Aurbere says, shatterpoint isn't even implied. Edited August 4, 2015 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 That's not shatterpoint. That's called breaking a door. Big difference. If it were shatterpoint the tell tale pattern wouldn't be absent. ^^Basically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) That's not shatterpoint. That's called breaking a door. Big difference. If it were shatterpoint the tell tale pattern wouldn't be absent. It's obvious that Satele wasn't targeting any particular structural weakness, but was just blowing it open with pure force. And as Aurbere says, shatterpoint isn't even implied.. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it wasn't my place to judge. I just linked the only thing I knew of. I think it's much more telling, that she never used anything slightly resembling shatterpoint beside that, and she isn't credit with it from offical sources. Only wookiee... Edited August 4, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm not saying you are wrong, but it wasn't my place to judge. I just linked the only thing I knew of. I think it's much more telling, that she never used anything slightly resembling shatterpoint beside that, and she isn't credit with it from offical sources. Only wookiee...Yeah I know, I just felt a general show of force was required. Never trust a Wookiee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I'm done playing defense with this garbage. Prepare for my counterattack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Alright, I'm going to stop right here until this negative temperament goes away. I don't know what I have done to make you so angry Aurbere, I have not been disregarding information, all I have been doing is presenting other feats that I think are valid. I am not going to continue debating you if you keep calling my arguments "garbage." It is completely uncalled for, and quite frankly, a bit hypocritical given some of the stuff you are attempting to use. You ask why I am not using battle med as an argument? Because I do not want to make it the basis for my team. In the hands of Bastila, battle med is a complete cheese ability, and I don't want to win because of it. That being said, unless you can cool off, I will be taking a day to distance myself from this debate. Despite the fact that I think some of your arguments are horrendous as sh*t, I haven't told you so out of respect for your character. This is not a concession on ANY of the points you have made, but I refuse to get angry because of a simple debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Alright, I'm going to stop right here until this negative temperament goes away. I don't know what I have done to make you so angry Aurbere, I have not been disregarding information, all I have been doing is presenting other feats that I think are valid. I am not going to continue debating you if you keep calling my arguments "garbage." It is completely uncalled for, and quite frankly, a bit hypocritical given some of the stuff you are attempting to use. You ask why I am not using battle med as an argument? Because I do not want to make it the basis for my team. In the hands of Bastila, battle med is a complete cheese ability, and I don't want to win because of it. That being said, unless you can cool off, I will be taking a day to distance myself from this debate. Despite the fact that I think some of your arguments are horrendous as sh*t, I haven't told you so out of respect for your character. This is not a concession on ANY of the points you have made, but I refuse to get angry because of a simple debate. Fair enough. I didn't mean it like that. Just going through some rough times is all. Not that your arguments didn't upset me, but I vented frustration on you unfairly. So I apologize. Oh, and you can dismiss the 'Revan was weakened argument' if you'd like. I found a better way to work around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Except she evidently can’t. She held her own against Revan on a massive dark side nexus after Revan cut through an army of ‘master duelists’. Bastila would have had a significant advantage against Revan, yet the best she could do is ‘hold her own’. How is she supposed to do that without a nexus against a far more powerful incarnation of the character that isn’t debilitated by a nexus and hasn’t just fought an army of Dark Jedi? You have not proved this in the slightest. -I was specifically talking about the duel on the temple of ancients, not on the star forge. While she did indeed lose on the Star forge, there is no evidence that she pulled from it at all. In fact, I’m not even sure it is a dark side nexus, it was just a dark side tool. For example, Korriban is steeped in the dark side, yet you can’t pull energy from it. It is the same for the forge. Bastila is also still recovering from the previous fight against Revan, where she fought him and Juhani and Jolee Bindo. I provided the necessary proof in the thread. It is a fact that Revan was not whole in SOR. Many characters make this very clear. Again, I provided such proof in the thread. And, again, it was not a spiritual split. The spirit uses the Force as well, and provides the protag in the battle with the energy to counter Revan’s attack, the energy being light and dark. And Revan contains the Coalition in fields of light and dark side energy. Dismissing this is baseless. These are scripted game mechanics and are not there for the purposes of gameplay. Regardless, you failed to counter my claim against your nexus argument, so I’ll accept your concession on that. Revan can and will throw around Bastila and Kit with the Force with relative ease, considering they are less powerful than the Coalition’s members. We resolved this, however, I don’t think Revan can toss them around. That scene on Yavin 4, where everyone was thrown back, was due to Revan exerting a huge amount of energy. Nox did the same to Thanaton, even though Thanaton outclassed Nox at that point Neat. And it’s a feat she evidently couldn’t do against Revan alone on the Star Forge. Either Revan became more powerful between the two missions, or Revan wasn’t fighting all out so that he wouldn’t hurt Bastila. Which do you think is most likely? Either way, Bastila at her strongest was incapable of telekinetically attacking Revan. The reverse is not true, since Revan has telekinetically attacked her more powerful descendant with ease. -Telekinetically attacked how? If you mean the throwback, I addressed that above. It means Revan is more powerful, and utterly disproves your claim that the two are comparable, that’s what ‘intensified’ means. Also, your reason to doubt the claim is pretty meh. Sounds like reaching to me. Kit Fisto’s lightsaber skill is great and all, but it doesn’t change that he is still utterly outclassed in the Force. It doesn’t save him from Revan’s powers at all. And you’re right, the Foundry was before the party reached its prime, but that party would definitely be more than a match for Kit Fisto. Wrath himself is comparable to Kit Fisto (being an army buster and all). Add in the immortal Nox and the best non-Force sensitive fighters the Empire has to offer and it’s pretty obvious that it doesn’t matter if the party wasn’t in its prime yet. Not to mention that the team barely defeated Revan: -Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Fisto was trained as a jedi consular, and it is likely that his force powers are greater than what he has displayed. Fisto is also incredibly proficient in force speed, allowing him to outmaneuver Revan. Fisto is incredibly fast, as seen in his fight against the JK droid in “Cestus Deception.” Revan should have been able to wipe the floor with them, he has far more impressive feats. Yet, he failed, and died. Revan has always had a bit of an overconfidence problem, that quote is clearly his ego speaking as nothing in the Foundry flashpoint suggested it was a close battle at all. I’m not dismissing his strength, merely that Revan has said a lot of things that are/were untrue. He thought HK could handle the strike team on the Foundry, and on TOA op, both times wrong. Sorry, but I trust the words and experiences of the character rather than your speculation, wherein she says that her life was forfeit to him without Jace Malcom. But if you want, I’ll show you how wrong you are. First thing that happens is Satele is put immediately on the defensive, barely able to hold Malgus back. She’s even nearly overpowered and has to bring down a tree to create separation. And yet, she has to rely on evasion in order to attack Malgus. Despite that, she gains no advantage and is eventually disarmed. Satele didn’t hold her own, her evasion delayed the inevitable. That’s it. And I don’t know if you were paying attention well enough, but that was a pretty open space. Ataru users don’t need flat, clear terrain in order to fight. True Ataru users don’t. You diminish Satele’s abilities by suggesting she couldn’t have overcome this supposed disadvantage you have fabricated. And I’m OK with that. Also, you admit that Satele lost the lightsaber duel, right? And that she would have died there if not for Malcom? Because she would have, as I aptly proved. And those verbal warnings are merely friendly advice. Don’t push these points; they are doing you no good. -Yes, she did “lose”, however, she has been shown to defeat other high caliber Sith, such as Darth Mekhis, and she stalemated Darth Baras. If you are trying to say she will be defeated in mere seconds, you are wrong. Again, quote me. I would have put it in my thread if it were real. -It was a wookie quote, but I’m starting to question its validity. Will address this elsewhere now that HK’s tools have been cleared up. -ok Neat. I don’t doubt this at all. But did you know that Revan was not just one of the greatest warriors of his era, but actually the greatest? And the era he was the best in was actually the prime of the Jedi? No? Here: ―Canderous Ordo (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) ―Canderous Ordo (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11114/111140132/3969946-1972971694-yay10.jpg I mean, Kit’s got some really solid accolades you posted, but Revan’s are comparable or better. So Kit isn’t really winning on that front. -Was it the prime of the Jedi? I thought the PT era was. Outside of perhaps, 5 jedi, the era of Revan is not greatly impressive. He is the exception, not the rule. Kit wouldn’t win on that front alone, but lucky him he has Bastila. Also, Kit mastered Shi-Choo to its highest level, and then some. Revan has never faced someone with his specific skills before. Remember, for him, combat is random and unpredictable. Here describes the Form and Kit's application of it's raw, random, dangerously aggressive style when applied in combat. He even states that if immersed himself in the Force, it would amplify those traits in the form and himself, and that doing so is "The way of Form One". Kit sat heavily, his smooth green forearms resting on his knees, sensor tendrils curling and questing like a nest of angry sand vipers. “I should have gone closer to the edge,” he said, the irises within the unblinking eyes expanding until they appeared to glow. “Released myself into the Force, become more unpredictable. More … random. Obi-Wan heard the concern in the Nautolan’s voice. Form I was wild, raw … and deadly. It also required too much emotional heat for Obi-Wan’s taste. “That would have been dangerous,” he said, choosing his words carefully. “Not to your body, perhaps, but to your spirit.” Kit looked up at him, irises contracting again. “It is the way of Form One. -The Cestus Deception You’re misrepresenting the facts here. Cestus Deception was two years before Kenobi’s prime. This was early in the war before Kenobi became the warrior he did become. It’s a good feat and all, but you’re attempting to make it out to be something it is not by saying this is peak Kenobi. -Remember that this is also before his prime, if Kenobi got better over the course of the CW, then so did Kit. Kit Fisto is an excellent swordsman, no doubt about that, but you are completely forgetting about Revan’s skill. Before I get to that, however, I must address Kit Fisto’s defeat against Asajj Ventress: —The Cestus Deception Ventress defeated Kit Fisto because of her Form and because she was able to predict his movements based on his style. How does this apply to Revan? Let’s find out… As I endeavored to show, Revan was highly likely a high-level master of multiple Forms because he was a user of Juyo. The quotes I posted previously indicate that Makashi was one of the Forms he mastered to a high level. Makashi, remember, is Ventress’ primary Form. So Revan already has a Form designed to pick Shii-Cho apart, more than enough to suggest Revan has an advantage. So what about predicting his movements? Well, in addition to his likely mastery of Shii-Cho, Revan has the ability to predict the actions of an opponent seconds, even minutes, before they occur: -Any holes Revan might use to exploit Kit, will be blocked by Bastila. Remember that this is a 2v1, Revan won’t have as many chances to exploit Kit. Like I said earlier, Kenobi could not find holes in his form, this being before both of their primes, he has only improved since then. Revan mastered Echani battle precognition to the point that he could slaughter even the Echani’s greatest masters of it. This skill easily allows Revan to predict Kit Fisto’s moves before he makes them. What does Kit Fisto have on this? He’s in the same position as he was against Ventress, except this time his opponent is far more powerful than he is. How is Kit Fisto supposed to fight against any of what Revan brings to the table? He can’t. Kit has shown to defeat the JK droids, droids who have precog abilities and can strategize in mid fight against him. This is just as impressive, if not more, than Revan’s echani battle abilities. Part 1: Note that the JK is so technologically advanced that it was capable of strategizing against Kit mid battle. Making Kit’s victory and showing of unpredictability in Form 1 Shii-cho, speed and skill even more impressive Master Fisto’s lightsaber flashed in his hand, and its emerald length rose from the hilt, scorching the air as it blossomed. The droid emitted a hum that climbed in pitch and intensity until Obi-Wan’s skin crawled. It remained motionless except for its surface, which once again segmented into an arachnid configuration. It seemed to sniff the air. Its insectile whine changed, as if it were wary of its new opponent. It extended tentacles again, but this time they wiggled in an oddly sluggish fashion. Strange indeed. Although previously appearing flexible and alert, was it now about to use the same tactics it had used against the commando? Perhaps the droid was not so advanced as he had initially feared … Kit’s lightsaber swatted the first tendril from the air with contemptuous ease. Obi-wan found his attention straying from the JK, focusing instead on Kit admiring the strength of his stance, the clarity of his angles as he chose lines of engagement. Kit favored the Form 1 style of combat, a fierce- The JK’s repetition of previous patterns had lulled him into complacency. The tendrils were only a feint. Where, then, was the real attack? He leaned forward, examining the droid more carefully. Its feet. The spiky protrusions were sunken in the sand. And projecting outward from the treads themselves, burrowing under the surface … Were more tendrils, color-camouflaged to resemble sand. This thing attacked on two levels simultaneously, a strategy beyond most living warriors. Even more disturbing, it was deliberately misleading Kit by performing at multiple levels of tempo and efficiency, literally juggling its tactics, luring him to overconfidence The Cestus Deception PART 2: Kit's sense of timing/ reactions faster than conscious thought and moved faster than the JK anticipated despite its Precog ability. The sand tendrils were within centimeters of their target before Kit sensed them. His lidless black eyes grew wider still as the sand erupted. A stalk snaked around his foot, trying to yank him onto his back. Other vines raced to assist the first group. The onlookers gasped in amazement as they realized that they were about to see the unthinkable: a mere droid defeating a mighty Jedi! But Kit was far from vanquished. As if he, too, had merely been playing a game, he crouched and leapt forward, spinning on his body’s vertical axis like some kind of carnival acrobat, surging directly at the JK. He rode the JK’s yanking motion instead of fighting it, slipping between the tendrils, the Nautolan’s sense of timing faster and more precise than conscious thought. Whatever its powers, the droid had not anticipated such an assault, nor could it adjust in time. It released him and retreated up a step, all tendrils lashing at the Jedi. Kit’s lightsaber rained sparks. Tentacles flopped onto the sand, some of the larger pieces twitching, more like separate creatures than severed limbs. The Nautolan hit the sand, rolled, and bore in again instantly, his face tightened into a fighting snarl. The Cestus Deception PART 3: The last part in which Kit’s skill and form become to unpredictable for the droid to process. Kit was still able to baffle its reactions,with his unorthodox attack. . But Kit had entered lightsaber range. At this more intimate distance, the droid was at a disadvantage. Now Kit was the predator, the JK reduced to the role of prey. Hissing, it retreated on its slender golden legs, tentacles wavering, as if it couldn’t crunch data fast enough to counter the unorthodox attack. The Cestus Deception Good for her. Bastila was beaten by Malak on neutral ground. How does that compare to Revan’s victory over Malak? Not favorably. Revan defeated Malak on a potent Dark Side nexus after fighting an army of master duelists, sith troopers, and war droids. Revan defeated Malak in the center of the latter’s power when he had the full might of the Star Forge at his command and a constant source of life energy to draw on. Who cares if Bastila held her own (proof of that?)? Revan defeated Malak when the latter was at his very strongest and Revan was hindered by the nexus. Bastila getting beaten doesn’t even begin to compare. Really helped her on the Star Forge. You know, where she lost! Her so-called knowledge of Revan’s fighting style didn’t help her at all when she got beaten multiple times in succession. And she doesn’t even know how this incarnation of Revan fights. So her so-called knowledge is of no use to her, not that it helped her in practice. And then she lost on the Star Forge! Stop ignoring that! Bastila had every advantage necessary and she lost! Multiple times! How is that holding your own? How is that supposed to imply that she can hold her own against an unhindered and much stronger version of Revan? You keep ignoring that Bastila only held her own against Revan on a potent dark side nexus after Revan fought an army of Dark Jedi. And she was beaten multiple times. How in Malachor is Bastila supposed to ‘hold her own’ against a stronger Revan without the aid of a nexus? You haven’t even begun to answer that question. Star Forge isn't a nexus, as I said earlier. Again, not sure what you were watching, but there was plenty of space in their arena. An actual Ataru master doesn’t need wide open, flat terrain to be successful. And it’s not like there were a ton of obstacles anyway. I certainly didn’t see anything noteworthy. Besides, Satele showed pretty effective navigation prior to confronting Malgus, so why is a more open field going to hinder her? And, again, Satele doesn’t fight on equal footing. She’s constantly on the back foot and nearly overpowered before she brings down a tree to create separation. And then her lightsaber was destroyed. I don’t know about you, but if your lightsaber gets destroyed that means you lost the lightsaber duel. Glad you acknowledge Satele’s defeat here. I’d also like to bring up that Hondo’s pirate base is even less roomy than Alderaan’s forests. There are tons of obstacles. If you’re arguing Satele had trouble dealing with an open space, how is she supposed to deal with this? -Alright Neat trailer shot, bro. Prove its validity. -It is from a launch trailer, it is perfectly valid. BW would not have made it if they thought it was outside the realm of possibility. Its just as valid as any one of the three cinematics from before release. Neat. Malgus can see through it. —The Third Lesson I doubt Satele would even use such a power in combat anyway, but if she did Malgus would see right through it. -Can he really? Eldon Ax couldn’t Satele Shan follows Eldon Ax around soundlessly without the latter sensing her presence. "Something dropped soundlessly behind her. She was up with lightsaber lit in an instant. "Impressive reflexes, " said Master Satele, to all appearances unconcerned by the possibility that Ax might have cut her in half. She hadn't even activated her own lightsaber. "Your peripheral vision could use some work, though. I've been on your tail ever since you landed." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance Nice. Just like all trained Force adepts. Her force speed was far above most. Satele Shan moves at a pace that is compared to a cannonball. "The corridor blurred. Master Satele preceded him like a cannonball, blowing the hex backward, out of the wreckage and into space." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance Satele Shan moves with such speed and precision it appears she vanished. "When he turned back, Satele Shan was gone, vanished into the night as though she had never been there at all." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance Is she even credited with the ability? I'm not sure, most likely not. That was a copy/paste from an earlier draft of an argument, forgot that was in there. In what way? That ‘calming influence’? How does that help against a Force user? Again was part of a copy/paste I forgot to take out, its not relevant. Neat, just like all Force users. Did you know Malgus advanced the ability to be able to use it in conjunction with telekinesis and Force Lightning to create a Force Maelstrom? 'Cause he did. Thats nice, except that her barrier is immensely powerful. - Her Barrier was powerful enough that not even the Hex droids could break through it, and it allowed her to survive in the vacuum of space. "Master Satele floated in a ball in the center of the room, her Force shield shimmering around her, a milky luminescence maintained barely a finger-span from her body... Master Satele's shield was undoubtedly strong enough to deflect anything the hex could throw at them, so he kept her ahead of him. His job was simply to move both of them-fast." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance Satele Shan can survive in the vacuum of space while protected by her Force Barrier. "I have a suit for you-" "I won't have a chance to put it on. There's no air lock. I'll keep a bubble of air around me using a Force shied. That'll give me a couple of minutes. ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance And I mean game mechanics are fair game too, right? Satele Shan casts a Force Barrier in her battle with Revan, leaving her greatly protected. "[satele Shan's] Force Barrier [is] immune to all damage, control, and negative effects." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic All I have to respond to, will do the remaining parts in a bit. Also, its nice to see we resolved our differences Aurbere, I didn't want to debate you with either of us constantly upset. Edited August 5, 2015 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I really, really, really did not want to bring up battle meditation, but I guess I probably should. "Her Battle Meditation that can turn the tide of any conflict." ―Juhani (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) "Bastila Shan, whose battle meditation skills were peerless." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia "Now you and Carth Onasi must find Bastila - the only person capable of stopping the Sith from conquering the galaxy." ―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic "Bastila will be a great Jedi someday. Even among the Masters and the Council it is rare to find one so skilled in the art of Battle Meditation." ―Vandar Tokare (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) "Shan was gifted in art of Jedi Battle Meditation, a rare ability usually only accessible to the most skilled and wizened Jedi Masters. Through sheer force of will, she could influence the course of massive battles. She could bolster the courage of one side of a battle, while draining the resolve of another." ―Star Wars Databanks: Bastila Shan "Her ability to affect minds blossoms with astounding speed and scope, and she becomes one of the youngest Jedi ever to master battle meditation. This sweeping Force power, which infuses allies with hope while simultaneously strangling enemy morale, has in the past reversed whole wars, and as the Jedi Civil War engulfs the galaxy, Bastila hopes to turn the tide toward Jedi favor." ―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide "Bastila is no ordinary Jedi. She has a rare gift the Jedi call Battle Meditation. Bastila's power can influence entire armies. Through the Force Bastila can inspire her allies with confidence and make her enemies lose their will to fight. Often, that's all it takes to tip the balance in a battle." ―Carth Onasi (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) "They say she has already mastered the art of Battle Meditation, remarkable in one so young. " ―Belaya (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic) "Despite her youth, Bastila is skilled in the rare art of Battle Meditation. Through sheer force of will she can influence the course of a battle. One side is given courage and strength while the other is sapped of will. This ability alone has put Bastila into the forefront of the Republic’s plan to defeat the Sith." ―Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic Prima Guide Bastila is the strongest user of battle meditation in the star wars mythos. There is no source that says that a user must stay stationary in order to use the ability. Force Meld, a descendant ability of battle med, does not require the user to be immobile. Furthermore, in every instance of Bastila using her battle med, we see it used to influence entire fleets or armies, such a feat would require her to be far more concentrated than acting upon a few individuals. Bastila's battle meditation turns my whole team from being on or close to par, to being superior in every way. Along with the communication capabilities provided by Satele, my team will have perfect coordination. Meanwhile, Aurbere's team will begin to feel the effects of the powerful light side ability that Bastila is enacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I take issue with this. Prove she can engage in telepathic conversation while in combat. And now I’m going to take the opportunity to show exactly why Satele cannot hope to contend with Malgus alone. In Malgus’ strongest incarnation as the False Emperor, he (potentially) engaged a strike team of the Republic’s greatest warriors, including two of the strongest Jedi in the Order. One of whom is the Hero of Tython. Why is this important? Because Satele Shan concedes inferiority to the Hero’s abilities as a warrior: If Satele’s superior needs help to defeat Darth Malgus in combat, then how is Satele supposed to? I never said that they can respond back, only that she can talk to other in full sentences. That, coupled with her ability to read minds through her powerful Force Sense ability, can cause her to be a "hub" if you will for which she can coordinate the group. Before I do anything, thanks for using my RT. It won’t save you, though. I’m also going to ignore your counters to HK’s weaponry since Sel cleared up that matter and it is now a moot point. You mentioned Plo Koon’s mask, so now I’m going to ask you to prove your mettle as a Plo Koon debater. His mask is a vital area. If destroyed or otherwise removed, he suffers a very painful death. It’s an obvious target and a trained veteran Jedi Killer is more than capable of taking advantage of it. What can Plo Koon do if his mask is destroyed? Nothing, he’s completely vulnerable and would die either by execution or suffocation. HK is more than capable of taking advantage of this weakness. Your Welcome:rak_01: Has anyone other than Savage shown to even try to attack his mask? Savage had incredible reach do to his larger than normal body, and he is the only one to defeat him that way. Koon won't have his mask taken off by a mere droid. Cute. Next time you call me out, spell my name right, mmk? Sorry This match-up is even worse for you :/ How So? Again, the RT… Anyway, Darth Malgus is also one of the greatest warriors of his Order: —The Old Republic Encyclopedia ^That was when Malgus was still an apprentice. Decades of advancement in skill and power and I’d say he’s still one of the greatest warriors in the Sith Empire, still up there with the army busters Marr and Decimus. There’s also praise from Darth Sidious, who claims that Darth Malgus’ feats have never been replicated: —Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side I’d certainly say such accolades surpass Plo Koon’s, or at the very least match them. And Malgus’ skill? He has a pretty fair advantage over Plo Koon there as well. He the battlemaster Kao Cen Darach (while only an apprentice), Satele Shan, and Ven Zallow. Zallow was considered Malgus’ most infamous kill, suggesting parity between him and battlemaster Darach. Plo Koon’s only real dueling feat is defeating Asajj Ventress. Impressive, yes, very impressive. Especially because he did so despite a broken arm. However, Ventress and Malgus are two very different opponents. Malgus is more comparable to Savage in fighting ability in that they use strength to their advantage. And when faced against a stronger opponent, Plo Koon was defeated. He can hold his own, sure, but he will be defeated. But we haven’t even considered Force power, which will give Malgus the undeniable edge and lead to his inevitable victory. Malgus has surpassed Plo Koon in the primary fields of combative Force use: Telekinesis and Force Lightning. Force Lightning is pretty easy, actually. Plo Koon has incapacitated a non Force user with a few bolts of lightning, Malgus has casually killed Jedi. No comparison. Telekinesis, on the other hand, is Plo Koon’s stronger point. Plo Koon’s greatest TK feat. In comparison to Malgus’ best feat, or perhaps . Plo Koon’s feats of telekinesis do not compare, and Malgus has affected even the most powerful Jedi of the era with his power. What’s to stop Malgus from doing so to Plo Koon? What feats exactly were replicated? That is an extremely vague quote. I mean, yea its hard to defeat Satele on Alderaan after she has been dead a long time and you blew up the freaking planet. Yup, hard to replicate that. Koon was defeated because his mask was taken off, which only Savage ever managed to do. Besides, Savage> or = Malgus. Malgus's lightning barely did anything to Jace, yet it did damage to a strangled Jedi knight. so we have an inconsistency. Koon is also significantly faster than Malgus, thus overcoming Djem So's weakness of mobility. Force Speed Plo Koon uses Force Speed to attack noted Jedi Killer Aurra Sing before she can fire at him: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441117-5688300591-pFuvD.gif Plo Koon cuts through dozens of battle droids in the time a Clone Trooper can say three words http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111222381/4441123-2953304324-oBuZW.jpg Malgus has faced faster opponents and defeated them in lightsaber combat. Satele Shan comes to mind. Plo Koon’s supposed application of Ataru (again, source?) isn’t really going to help him when actual pure Ataru users were unable to. And prove his superior skills. Malgus matches his accolades and surpasses his feats. Plo Koon is generally just outclassed by Malgus. He can hold his own for a time, but he just doesn’t have the ability to defeat Malgus in any way. Malgus is the better fighter and the more powerful Force user by a significant margin. Plo Koon has no advantages here. And, again, he has a weakness in the form of his breath mask. He’s at a disadvantage against Malgus. He simply can’t win. That must have been painful to type....I'm sorry. But no, he is not. Simple counter for this. TOS HK (which I’m assuming Sel agreed to using) is equipped with a reactive shield that defends against Force powers. So Satele can’t really use her powers against him. There’s also the fact that HK faced a far greater threat than Satele Shan, a threat that Revan was confident that HK could overcome: A force push would force him out of the shield, as it is only air, or she could get into the shield by lightsaber combat. Keeping in mind that, again, Satele’s superior (Hero of Tython) would potentially comprise the team against HK. So the question is posed again: How does Satele defeat a droid so easily when her superior needed aid to do the same? Essentially, Revan is very much superior to Bastila and Kit Fisto, Malgus is demonstrably superior to Plo Koon or Satele, and HK-47 can contend in this battle due to his past adversaries and the threat he posed. Revan is far superior to any individual member of your team and requires more than two opponents to defeat. Malgus is individually superior to any member of your team and can take on two enemies at a time. Regardless of HK’s abilities, these two are more than capable of taking your team on themselves. Thus far your attempts to prove the contrary are inadequate. Your move. The first part confuses me, I'm not sure what you are saying. For the second part......ummm no. Revan can not overpower the duo, Malgus is not superior to Plo Koon or Satele by any significant margin, and HK is a droid who is largely fallible because he is facing superior opponents. Edited August 5, 2015 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 One thing I want to bring up, is that Satele has shown to have advanced precognitive abilities that were never wrong. Satele possesses legendary foresight "The foresight of Grand Master Satele Shan was legendary, and never wrong." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance Satele Shan's Farsight abilities were greater than that of Shigar Konshi's. "He lacked the foresight ability of Master Satele, but every cell in his body screamed in alarm." ―Star Wars: The Old Republic: Fatal Alliance With this ability, Satele will be able to sense impending danger, and can warn the others before it happens. Any sort of trick, or exploit that Malgus, Revan, or HK try to use will be foiled. Admittingly, this is probably where shatterpoint is believed to come from. Her ability to predict the future with such precision is probably believed by some to be shatterpoint. To a degree, I believe them, as it resembles shatterpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you don't clean up your posts Shadow I'm voting Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you don't clean up your posts Shadow I'm voting Aurbere What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 What do you mean? The broken color tags. They are driving me crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 The broken color tags. They are driving me crazy. I think i fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I think i fixed it. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Nope. Now its fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I would very much like to respond today or this week at all, but I'll be absent most of the weekend and briefly into next week, so I'll hold off on my response until Tuesday. No more arguments, Mudkip. It's hard enough keeping up with so many posts, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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