SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Round 1C: Selenial vs Tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

So like this?

 

Yeah.

[Jarons]

Yeah.

How do I keep it on here?Without having to keep it copied and paste.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Jarons

[cs_zoltan]

How do I keep it on here?Without having to keep it copied and paste.

 

Memorize it. It will be ****** for a while, but you'll get used to it.

[Jarons]

Memorize it. It will be ****** for a while, but you'll get used to it.

Alright I'll try to memorize it.Wait Aubere Beniboy and Selenial does this make me apart of the Color Brigade now?

[Selenial]

Ok so Wyyrlok vs K’kruhk, done pretty quickly if I’m honest. Don’t expect too much…. mainly because I really shouldn’t have to dignify this battle with much of one.

 

Wyyrlok vs K'kruhk

 

Lightsaber Skill:

 

Tune’s right, K’kruhk is primarily a Lightsaber duelist. I guess it’s even more of a shame then that he’s utterly outclassed in this segment of the fight as well as in the force. Wyyrlok III excelled in Lightsaber combat every bit as much as he did in the force, regardless of his specialization. Not only is Wyyrlok thoroughly being undervalued here, given his performance against one of the greatest duelists of all time (Krayt) but K’kruhk is being massively overblown. Not only do I think his performance against Grievous is being hugely, hugely taken out of context and overrated, but I think his fight against Vos is the same.

 

K’kruhk took Vos on long before Vos’ prime, and it should be noted that Legends Vos isn’t as powerful as Canon Vos either. Even then, he never actually engaged Vos in a duel of skill, merely overpowering Vos with his size. While yes, this was impressive, Vos wasn’t striking to kill and wasn’t pushing for a duel. K’kruhk was fighting Vos as if Vos was Ventress, believing him to have fallen. Vos was trying not to harm K’kruhk while maintaining his cover. Indeed, once Vos had forced K’kruhk off him, a duel could have played out, but it didn’t, Vos fled. That’s not a sign that Vos was inferior, as people attempt to say. It’s merely a sign that Vos did not want to engage or kill K’kruhk. Furthermore, this was before Vos’ training at the hands of the Sith, and before a dramatic increase in abilities that we saw him go through. Overall, not a feat for K’kruhk that places him on Wyyrlok III’s level, or even close.

 

Second, his fight against Grievous is being overstated. Tunewalker is attempted to convince you all that the fact Grievous used Strength and Skill to best the others, but bested K’kruhk by surprise, means K’kruhk is stronger and more skilled than the others Grievous fought…. Yes I know, I’m as dumbfounded as you are, but I guess I should point out the flaws in this anyway.

 

Grievous dispatched K’kruhk in a matter of seconds. He took K’kruhk out much faster than Shaak Ti or Ki Adi Mundi. Grievous used surprise as a means to an end against K’kruhk because it was faster than dispatching him any other way. This doesn’t mean Grievous could not have dispatched him in other methods. K’kruhk lasted 4 seconds against Grievous, might I add. In fact, in all likelihood, the reason Grievous didn’t use trickery against Shaak Ti or Mundi isn’t because they were inferior to K’kruhk and didn’t need it, but because they would be prepared or would not be phased by it. Shaak Ti being one of the most cunning and tricky Jedi alive, and Mundi’s enhanced sense and intelligence allowing him to adapt fast enough.

 

I don’t possibly see how someone can seriously make an argument that K’kruhk is better than Vos, Mundi, or Ti.

 

Wyyrlok on the other hand… While Wyyrlok’s hype mainly comes from a singular duel, it’s impressive enough to warrant an immense talent with the blade. He competed with Krayt, one of the greatest duelists of all time. While the majority of the duel takes place “off screen”, it’s important to notice and realise that despite how bloodlusted, furious, and striking to kill Krayt was, he never once landed a hit on Wyyrlok. This was despite Wyyrlok III only wielding a single blade.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577225

 

This is an immensely impressive feat, fitting with his stature in the Sith Empire as second only to Krayt in every field of the Dark Side. His role as a scholar did not by any means diminish his ability as a duelist, nor should it.

 

Krayt is pretty indisputably on the level of Anakin or Dooku as a duelist, with comparable speed and greater strength. For Wyyrlok III to hold out against Krayt, without taking a single hit, he’d require defensive abilities on the level of Obi Wan Kenobi or Darth Zannah. K’kruhk will not penetrate this defense, will not overpower him, or come close. If he can’t do this, Wyyrlok is free to let loose his rage with the Force, something K’kruhk will not be able to cope with.

Force Powers:

 

I think Tune’s overblowing his character again here. That seems to be a recurring theme if I’m being totally honest. The aspects K’kruhk performs well in, in control, are not power hungry spheres. Besides, his natural physique already lends itself to strong strikes, not exactly requiring the amount of effort that other species might to perform huge strength feats.

 

This isn’t me lowballing his strength or speed, merely saying they’re not anywhere near an indication of similar power levels in the force, as Tune’s suggesting.

 

In terms of control, Wyyrlok’s feats are scarce. We do however know that he’s second only to Krayt in raw dark side power, which would indicate a greater strength or speed than other talented Sith such as Darth’s Talon, Nihl, Stryfe and more. Though I’m not going to get into power scaling in this section, as it seems a tad more implausible than other areas. All we really need is to look at his fight with Krayt. Wyyrlok was not overpowered in strength, speed or agility by any large margins. Krayt showed himself to be superior but not by a huge amount, and certainly not by any amount that tipped the fight into a stomp in his favor. Because of this, I think it’s safe to say Wyyrlok’s force enhanced strength and speed were reputable.

 

In terms of alter, Wyyrlok’s got K’kruhk beaten through and through. It’s also how he’s going to win this battle, handily.

 

Wyyrlok’s Sith Lightning is second only to Darth Krayt in power, but that is by no means a bad showing on his part. As I have mentioned before, Wyyrlok’s lightning destroyed two stone columns, shattering them and sending them scattered. This is something that Dooku failed to achieve, it is also something Darth Thanaton on one of the greatest Dark Side Nexuses in the galaxy also failed to achieve. Wyyrlok’s Lightning is intensely powerful.

 

It also, perhaps more impressively, destroyed Darth Krayt’s fabled armor.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577218

 

This armor was capable of deflecting blaster bolts and indirect Lightsaber strikes, yet Wyyrlok’s lightning eviscerated it.

 

Telepathy may also be a route Wyyrlok could explore:

 

"Darth Wyyrlok believes that it is willpower that gives the sith their strength. By sheer force of will, a Sith can achieve almost anything, and Darth Wyyrlok displays this in everything he does. He is a master of illusions, capable of using the Force to trick his enemies’ minds into seeing things that are not there. In fact, so powerful are Darth Wyyrlok’s mind tricks that he manages to convince nearly a dozen lightsaber-wielding Dark Side Cultists on prakith that they should fight and kill one another, proving once again that the sith are masters of bending the galaxy to their will."

 

The best part about the above feat? Darth Wyyrlok was confirmed to only use an “iota” of his Force Powers to accomplish this feat. Imagine what he could do while fully focussed on a single mind.

 

In fact you don’t have to. Darth Andeddu was a skilled telepath and skilled at creating illusions, yet Wyyrlok tore him apart in a duel of the mind.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577195

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577196/

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577197/

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577198

 

In terms of tutaminis, Wyyrlok can deflect Sith Lightning:

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4577189

Which was immensely difficult even for the most powerful Jedi Masters:

 

“Called Sith lightning, these charges cause excruciating pain and weaken life, and it is a challenge for even the most powerful Jedi Masters to deflect such bursts.”

 

Edge in Force Power? Wyyrlok decisively.

Edge in saber skill? Wyyrlok.

Edge in teamwork and cohesion? Wyyrlok, though this post is en route atm.

 

Wyyrlok’s defensive skill will easily keep K’kruhk at bay, keeping him away long enough to take advantage of any opening that K’kruhk gives him. As soon as one is available, Wyyrlok will unleash devastating force powers, taking K’kruhk out of the fight with ease.

 

There is however one last thing I’d like to pick up on:

 

wanted to note that I am pretty sure Dark Trasnfer is not allowed, simply because it haults all debate since it makes one of the opponents litterally invincible with as far as most people are concerned. Also according to the comic that was linked its possible that was the pain version of dark transfer given the dialog, and not lightning.

 

The rest I will get to later, but suffice to say its a waste of your time to argue Krayt is far enough above Kyp for it to matter. Because the fact of the matter is, no one is far enough above Kyp for that to matter save Luke, who is so far ahead of every one that, that isnt a fair comparison to begin with.

 

 

1)“Krayt cannot use Dark Transfer on other opponents”

 

It is no different to Sion’s immortality. You just have to take out the team first.

 

To the rest? I’d say you need to damn well prove it instead of just saying I’m wrong. Because firstly, a non prime Luke took down a Kyp level opponent with ease, Krayt isn’t far off that level. Secondly, I and most debaters and forums view Kyp Durron as a Ventress level combatant at best. That’s not bad, it’s also nowhere near Krayt. If you want to suggest otherwise you need to do a better job at proving it.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Selenial

[cs_zoltan]

Alright I'll try to memorize it.Wait Aubere Beniboy and Selenial does this make me apart of the Color Brigade now?

 

This is roughly the same color, but a lot easier to memorize: FF5555.

 

Sorry Sel for all this off topic coloring

[Aurbere]

Very nice work, Sel. If you don't mind, I'll be borrowing your Wyyrlok hype for my own purposes.

[Selenial]

Very nice work, Sel. If you don't mind, I'll be borrowing your Wyyrlok hype for my own purposes.

 

Bleh. Much anger that I missed the opening of that tourney.

 

Slay them all for me

 

Side note: You lose your match and I'm genuinely going to ***** slap you off these forums. Your team... too stronk.

[Aurbere]

Bleh. Much anger that I missed the opening of that tourney.

 

Slay them all for me

 

Side note: You lose your match and I'm genuinely going to ***** slap you off these forums. Your team... too stronk.

 

No pressure though, right?

[Silenceo]

No. The only color that I consider too light is white.

 

You must REALLY hate reading my posts then.

[cs_zoltan]

You must REALLY hate reading my posts then.

 

I know I do. Nothing to do with the white color though.

 

 

 

Nah, jk

[raandomname]

You must REALLY hate reading my posts then.

Yeah, it is uncomfortable at times. The worst thing is when you (very light) and Star (very dark) have a conversation and I have to reduce my screen brightness to read your posts and increase my screen brightness to read his posts.

[Silenceo]

I know I do. Nothing to do with the white color though.

 

 

 

Nah, jk

 

Yeah, it is uncomfortable at times. The worst thing is when you (very light) and Star (very dark) have a conversation and I have to reduce my screen brightness to read your posts and increase my screen brightness to read his posts.

 

On the upside... I don't often make walls of texts with the white. Unless a Kaggath comes...

Edited August 14, 2015 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

Ok going to continue with my analysis and then get on to the counters. So yes for now I am ignoring Selenial's posts, because there is enough undercutting of Kyp's and K'kruhk's abilities for me to fly a Helicopter under it... and I dont even HAVE a pilots license lol. I will say this Sel, thank you for showing me where the disconnect on these forums is. Since "kyp is down at ventress level" says exactly how bad the "undercutting" is, its pretty severe but its not unmanagable or incapable of being mitigated.

 

 

Ok so first moving on to Leia vs Talon. Now again this is going to ignore the previous posts, because any undercutting on power is hopefully going to be mitigated once I get there.

 

 

 

Lightsaber Skill

 

 

In terms of Skill these 2 have shown to be on a very high caliber setting, if I had to say one was "more skilled" it would be talon, however with Leia being as powerful as Kyp is1 and with Kyp being Krayt level in power (will prove in the next post) this means Leia just outclasses her in power. She has had enough speed to block over 3,000 shots from a droid in a matter of seconds, and other speed feats such as when she wove a basket of Light accurately enough to send ALL of the shots back to there source. Most of the other saber feats see page 1 in my opening. Suffice to say with the power gap between the 2 (which I will get into proving next post) Leia is more then skilled enough to defeat Talon.

 

 

 

1

Yammosks could detect the Force, and Kyp maintained that Leia was as strong in the Force as he was. Han was not at all eased by the explanation.

 

Source: The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force

 

2

Leia caught up to the rear of the group and launched herself into a whirling lightsaber attack, cloaking herself behind a basket of sapphire light and batting blaster bolts back toward their source.

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

 

 

Force Power:

 

 

As I already stated Leia is clearly the more powerful in the force, however Talon is much more prone to use Force based attacks, these attacks have been enough to shatter the ground and are more then enough for leia to be lifted off her feat. However this is only if Leia decides not to root herself in the force and become "immovable" 1, 2, and while she doesnt do so often she is still CAPABLE of using the force in combat. 3,4,5, for the difference in power vs the difference in likely hood to use said power. I have to call this one a draw.

 

1

Leia remained where she was, using the Force to anchor herself to the floor.

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Inferno

 

2

The branch sagged so precariously that the Princess had to Force-stick herself in place.

 

Source: Dark Nest III: The Swarm War

 

3

Leia extended her hand toward the leading Mandalorian and sent him streaking downward with a violent Force shove. He shot through the traffic lane below in a streak of white flame, causing several booming crashes as startled freighter pilots slammed their vehicles into one another and the surrounding buildings.

 

Source: Fate of the Jedi: Abyss

 

4

She extended a hand and Force-hurled the second one back into a fourth animal that was charging. The boarwolf struck its packmate heavily, and both beasts went sprawling.

 

Source: Fate of the Jedi: Omen

 

5

Han dropped another assassin and she killed three; Han blasted a man’s leg and sent him somersaulting across the corridor; Leia used the Force to crush two more beneath a flying suit of heavy plexoid armor.

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

 

 

 

 

Utilizing the Terrain

 

 

Leia has fought in terrain like this several times and in fact has used everything here a multitude of times as well, be it changing levels or dropping fighters on people she has done it all. Talon, while powerful has shown a couple tactical blunders in my eyes for example when she tried to push Cade into the ground in their last duel all she ended up doing was creating a platform for him to get the edge over her 1 For this reason I have to give the edge to Leia, because she will not only utilize the terrain but she wont accidentally do something to allow her opponent an edge.

 

1

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11114/111140132/4236140-cade+tk+domination.jpg

 

 

Miscilaneous

 

 

I wanted to talk here about physique and other skills. While Leia has been trained by a Barabel and by Luke's first girl friend (her name escapes me at this very moment) as well as Luke giving her a wide array of different styles and techniques of unarmed combat while utilizing a saber (from none to fierce) she just doesnt match up to Talon in this regard. Talon was built to be a tank and she has proven to be so on more then one occassion. She is going to be all around tougher then Leia, but not as much tougher as some would suggest. Also Leia is trained in the use of a blaster and still occassionally carried it, giving her a level of versatility that no one on the opponents team has.

 

[tunewalker]

GAAAAAH screw this site sometimes.... GHRHRHGGGGG GHGHHRHGHGHGHHGHGGGGG..... :mad::mad:

 

 

it was done, I had the whole thing with Kyp done..... it was all there...... and now its gone.... I... dont even.... I have to get stuff done.... and that took an hour to write.... darn it bioware.

Edited August 14, 2015 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

GAAAAAH screw this site sometimes.... GHRHRHGGGGG GHGHHRHGHGHGHHGHGGGGG..... :mad::mad:

 

 

it was done, I had the whole thing with Kyp done..... it was all there...... and now its gone.... I... dont even.... I have to get stuff done.... and that took an hour to write.... darn it bioware.

 

[Aurbere]

GAAAAAH screw this site sometimes.... GHRHRHGGGGG GHGHHRHGHGHGHHGHGGGGG..... :mad::mad:

 

 

it was done, I had the whole thing with Kyp done..... it was all there...... and now its gone.... I... dont even.... I have to get stuff done.... and that took an hour to write.... darn it bioware.

 

Microsoft Word or Google Docs.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

 

No I dont... it took an hour because there was so much stuff....

 

look

 

Simplified

 

Kyp = Kyle dueling skill.... Kyle kills scores of Sith and Dark Jedi, in Jedi Knight 1, 2 and 3.

 

Kyp preforms ESB-RotJ Luke/ Vader Level feats as Padawan showing that the "potential" quote is more accurate to his achieved then his "potential" since the accurate to his "potential" quote would have stated he had more potential then Luke... I know it doesnt make sense, I didnt write the darn thing Kevin J. Anderson did.

 

Kyp moves black hole and states TO MUCH pressure and it wont work... IE he has more power then that, no body in this tournament out TK's Kyp...

 

K'kruhk = Vos, Ti and Mundi, not greater then. Grevious Respect K'kruhk and prizes his saber through out the war. K'kruhk kills one sith. K'kruhk doesnt use much force ability in combat, but pulling down corvette shows magnitude of Force ability on par with opponent. This only not true if want to ignore all sources K'kruhk is in...

 

 

yes grammar gone... I had it.... It was all there, sources... everything.... it was there....

[cs_zoltan]

Microsoft Word or Google Docs.

 

Yay, you used the color I gave you

[raandomname]

Microsoft Word or Google Docs.

 

This. Pretype your argument and then copy paste it in.

Also nice new color.

[cs_zoltan]

Also nice new color.

 

Thanks

[cs_zoltan]

Kyp moves black hole and states TO MUCH pressure and it wont work... IE he has more power then that, no body in this tournament out TK's Kyp...

 

You brought this up several times. He didn't move literal black holes. The minimum mass to maintain a black hole is in the 10^16 kg range. That's 10^13 times heavier than the Star Destroyer Galen Marek guided...

What he really TK'd is a dovin basal, an animal that can generate gravitational fields. A singularity mine was 2 meters wide, so those animals weren't that big. At best it weights as much as a shuttle.

Edited August 14, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[tunewalker]

You brought this up several times. He didn't move literal black holes. The minimum mass to maintain a black hole is in the 10^16 kg range. That's 10^13 times heavier than the Star Destroyer Galen Marek guided...

What he really TK'd is a dovin basal, an animal that can generate gravitational fields. A singularity mine was 2 meters wide, so those animals weren't that big. At best it weights as much as a shuttle.

 

Correction, he moved the Singularity CREATED by a Dovin Basal. they are capable of Swallowing Star Destroyer sized ships when close enough, as well as being used by the Vong as Propullsion for both their larger ships and their smaller ships, the mass of the Singularity created by this creature would need to be at the minimum equivlent to that of the Second Death Star for them to be able to create enough gravitational force to move the Vong ships in this manner. The only other person to have preformed this feat is Number 1 on ever Most powerful list, hope you can guess his name. (and by this feat, I mean moving the Singularity created by a dovin Basil.)

 

And by the way, that math you just did... you finally understood the level of Power Kyp is giving off, thank you. (again I did not write it, but its what happened, dont blame me, it happened, its a thing)

Edited August 14, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

http://media.giphy.com/media/sY4SjlTUgRUmQ/giphy.gif

[tunewalker]

http://media.giphy.com/media/sY4SjlTUgRUmQ/giphy.gif

 

And he seized upon that void, directing all his Force abilities and discipline against it.

 

It was like using a thin metal rod to push a grounded landspeeder. Too much pressure and it would bend, becoming useless. Too little and nothing would happen.

 

(The void, not the basal itself, but the void it created I didnt write it, dont blame me, but it happened, its a feat that he has.... he did it. If that means 10^13 over a Star destroyer moving... then that's what it is... I didnt write, not my fault)

Edited August 14, 2015 by tunewalker