Beniboybling Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Tune gets a final post of he wishes it because you got one, and because there is no rule on how many posts you can make. Not up for discussion I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Well he should be allowed to post a final post or that would force a biased vote.Since he didn't have a chance to finished we would have to vote for You. Wouldn't you want to post you final Argument especially facing a debater as skilled as you.Everyone should be allowed a final post by saying he doesn't deserve one its like saying Shadow shouldn't have a final argument since he had more post then Aurbere in their thread.If Shadow gets on then Tune should get one as well. Except that's really not how it works, since I could just as easily say "if Tune gets the final post everyone will biased vote for him". Again I don't think it'll make a difference, I just want it over already and I feel like we've both had our say. Not like he has a huge amount in my post to counter, he'd just be repeating himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 *sigh* Looks like this is the second longest post in the tournament, even if only slightly. Still, I suspect I can trounce Aurbere's puny record should I decide to go all out Hey, maybe I'll be able to as well! But anyway. Very nice post. Extremely convincing. Let's see what you come up with, Tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Except that's really not how it works, since I could just as easily say "if Tune gets the final post everyone will biased vote for him". Again I don't think it'll make a difference, I just want it over already and I feel like we've both had our say. Not like he has a huge amount in my post to counter, he'd just be repeating himself... Mostly Ya... to be perfectly honest. The only thing in your posts specifically that I would even think about countering is the teamwork aspect, but I did cover that a little already here http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=8385420&postcount=150 Streen and Kyp fought the Leviathon together and already had perfect synergy. Leia has communicated with the whole team telepathically at one point working in synergy with them, and K'kruhk has worked in synergy from Jedi through out the ages including the NJO, there is no real reason to think their synergy will be any worse then the One Sith's that they fight, And the start I showed why I fully believe my team has to full pre-req needed for Force Melds. The Kyp vs Krayt Debate I covered pretty extensively. I acknowledge Krayt's skill as a duelist, I acknowledge that he speed blitzed (power not skill See Palpatine vs Fisto IE exhibit A) a group of Imperial Knights, but that is no where near outside Kyp's capabilities. He was noted as an Expert Duelist by Luke along side Katarn, who has done the same thing to just as many if not more Sith and Dark Jedi, and he isnt as powerful as Kyp is. Every fight of Kyp that I have linked is not his full might, or his full strength. Those are mostly all playing around Sparring matches. Sure Luke wasnt trying, but neither really was Kyp. Jaina may have been trying against Kyp, but neither really wants to hurt the other, so that is neither of theirs full go, but Kyp was winning. In the duel with Kyp later when he had the suit on and she didnt know it was him, again he knew it was her and wasnt trying, the moment she got injured he helped her out. Most of what we see from him is not his maximum, but when we do see his maximum it shows itself to be greater then that of at the very least Star Killer and Galen Marek, likely even Greater then Vader. And with that kind of power Krayt is not going to win on power alone, and say what you will, Kyp is still noted as an Expert Duelist, he was still the first person to face the Vong and escape, he has still beaten Jaina on more then one occassion who would later become the sword of the Jedi (she has speed blitzed Sith before... 3 of them with relative ease... likely could have done more), he has still had an even sparring match against Luke of course he cant beat Luke but that's not something against him because Neither can Krayt, neither can Palpatine, there is no shame to not beating Luke while he is fresh. K'kruhk I believe my opponent is intentionally low balling, taking every feat he has and basically trying to thow it out the window. He was a grand master during Krayt's time even with people like Solzan and the rest around. His magnitude and precision with force powers show he is not inept just usually choses not to use them. His showings with a saber put him on par with the duelists I said ( I didnt say better, I said on par, IE same league different skill set) even with Greivous's victory over him, Grievous still highly respected his skills its noted K'kruhk's saber was one of his favorites and was supposedly used against Obi-wan in the final fight on Utapua, but ultimately I do feel my opponent is right Wyylrock has the advantage here. Talon vs Leia, again i completely acknowledge my opponents analysis of Talon's Lightsaber abilities, but I dont feel Leia should be underestimated here. She has fought talented and skill warriors before, and speed blitzed plenty of her own Sith and even fought her own highly skilled warriors such as mandalorians with fair amount of ease. She can detect some one hiding their force powers from accrossed a planet so Force Concealing isnt going to work on her, and had it not been for Han she WOULD have killed Teihiri, she has taken advantage of an opponents weakness before to cut off their head (The sith who's eye was cut out... all of these I have linked before and can link again should it be requested of me), and ultimately has a more well rounded set of abilities when you include her Marksman training. When I say "relative inexperience" it does mean "relative" meaning "relative to Leia" Leia is older, and has been doing things in the galaxy a lot longer, her time with out force training is not a weakness but a strength as Kreia herself would state, it makes her more inventive, and more creative when in a troublesome situation, Talon is used to fighting more traditional saber duelists not some one like Leia who's life experiences are incredibly vast. She is supposedly just as powerful as Kyp, and I think that makes her just as powerful as Cade. She has shown a vast array of TK abilities herself once fully trained, including easily moving ships the size of the Ties in this hangar (again I can show this again later if you wish) and her own telepathic skills have been used to communicate with team members far away in other systems. She has a counter for everything Talon can throw at her while also having a vast array of skills and talents as well as being incredibly powerful in the force the combination I believe it will make it difficult for Talon to win. Kyp's presence touched Leia, assuring her that he was on his way. She replied as she had with Mara, by filling her mind with good thoughts about Bwua'tu and silently urging Kyp to respect him. Kyp poured indignation into the Force. Leia repeated the sentiment more strongly, trying to impress on him that the problem was the Killiks, not the Fifth Fleet. Kyp grew frustrated, but his stubbornness slowly gave way to willingness. Source: Dark Nest II: The Unseen Queen some senses The strength of the living Force in the jungle overwhelmed Leia's physical senses. Her ears hummed with its energy, her skin *****led beneath its warm pressure, even her vision had begun to cast the rain in a soft green glow. She found herself perceiving with her spirit rather than with her body, becoming a part of the jungle rather than a visitor to it. Saba was reacting a little differently. She was creeping along the vine-swaddled mogo branches with all the stealth of a hungry rapard, barely stirring the thick foliage except when she suddenly fell on some hissing rodent or popped out of hiding to snatch a passing buzzbird. Leia might have been bothered by the trail of death that her Master's predatory instinct was laying behind them had she not felt like half the jungle was trying to eat her. Through the Force, she could sense everything from tiny bloodbats to packs of Ewok-sized spiders-all of them on the hunt, stalking her through the canopy, watching and waiting for an opportunity to attack. Source: Dark Nest III: The Swarm War Streen. Kun was mind controlling him, and he was a padawaan after breaking free it never worked again, the thought that this is the only time Streen has used AE to this extent is unfortunately incorrect. http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4612755 That Mountain looking thing that seems to be getting pushed away is not a mountain, it is a Sith Spawn known as a Leviathan. He has used his abilities to also put air back into the lungs of his allies and as you see there "before you use you lightsabers" showing he is not alone, there were a few with him on this trip... Kyp being one of them, and they worked perfectly together. They were in no danger of Streen's winds as Selenial suggests. Further, I have already stated and I believe shown why I do not agree with Selenials TK assessment. Kyp has shown the largest TK of any one here, and of everything they moved or are being claimed to move against him he has shown the capability to do so as a Padawan. Leia is just as strong as he is and has also shown the ability to easily do what Selenial suggests her people will do. K'kruhk has moved a Corvette sized ship before showing he to has more then enough skill with TK, while he may be the weakest Link here he is not incapable. Further the winds themselves will pick up a lot more then any one's TK and since I have already shown Streen as a KNIGHT (not master level streen) has enough control of it to move large monsters with out endangering his allies I feel confident in saying Master Streen would have enough control to direct the winds to be a bit more accurate with the amount of items they chuck which is greater then both teams TK combined (just the number of objects is greater then the numbers that people here have lifted.) While dealing with that AND dealing with my own teams TK AND trying not to be blown out into the air lock its going to be rough going. They could attempt to shoot lightning at streen instead of Tking against my team, but that will result in my team stepping in all more then capable of blocking Lightning on their lightsaber. Leia even moving fast enough to intercept it if she is not in position, with out any training what so ever. Mara winced in sympathetic pain as Solo was thrown backwards into the guardrail at the front of the hologram pit. Through the crackle of the lightning she heard Organa Solo shout her husband's name and jump to his side, dropping her blaster and igniting her lightsaber just in time to catch the third blast of lightning on the green-white blade. Source: The Last Command Ultimately it does come down to which team you actually believe is capable of what. And there is only 1 other point on the enviroment that I wanted to touch on. Its kind of a last minute thought, but of every one here... Kyp is the best fighter pilot. The Ties are good for something beyond throwing around, should he get in one, I believe his force barriers combined with the weight of the object will now allow any one to throw it, at that point its just blow the hangar out (not the people in it, just the hangar itself.) and watch them get flung into space. If they decide to chase in Tie's themselves then Kyp can take them down that way. Leia is also a pretty decent pilot and capable of that, it was just a random thought so every one can rage if they dont like it if they wish, but basically no consensus on anything was really reached. I tried to be fair in my analysis of character capabilties, and I feel Kyp and Leia are often times underrated, and in this fight at least so was K'kruhk. I prefer fights were talents and abilities are taken into consideration rather then some false Idea of what is and isnt powerful. If a Character has shown greater Magnitude with TK, and still has shown precision, then they are a talented TK user, if the person has shown greater magnitude with Lightning and shown precision with it as well, they are a greater Lightning user. And that's my analysis of Kyp vs Krayt. Kyp is the greater TK user, but Krayt is the greater lightning user, with the help of his team I believe Kyp's will be more benificial. Edited August 17, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Can we haz voting now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Can we haz voting now? PWETTY PLEEEAAASSE with cherries on top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Can we haz voting now? **** official posts! I've had my say, Tune's had his. While I want to reply I understand I can't, happy to move on. Let's just pretend I'm Beni Let the voting begin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Let the voting begin If you say so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Lightsaber combat Too much reaching on Tune's part to be honest. I can't really put this into words properly, but reading Tune's posts revolving around this category I was like "Meh", reading Sel though I was "**** I hope we won't meet in the semis". I give the edge to Selenial. I could give you advice here Tune, but I think it's a waste. You are who you are. Your reaching arguments were really non-convincing though. I mean K'Kurhk = Ti because Grievous used an unorthodox move? You surely can't mean that... Force abilities Pretty much the same as above...edge to Selenial. Teamwork & Tactics In terms of teamworke I'm not gona give and edge. Both teams are familiar with each other so there's that. In regards to tactics while Tune made some sound strategy they were based on arguments that I think were wrong, arguments involving the previous two category. Sel called Tune out of this mistakes which is why I give her the edge. Handling the environment Alter Environment is all well and good...if a team can actually exploit it. It doesn't work like this: my team has AE, so I'll have the environment edge. It could alter the environment to one team's favour, but for that there has to be a favourable environmnet. And this is where I think Tune fell flat. Selenial convincingly countered the only AE scenario Tune brought up, for that I gave her the edge. Tune I suggest you to look beyond the powers, and think how it would be beneficial to you. What tactic you came up with AE in this debate is hardly favourable to your team. Miscellaneous Streen. I don't know what to say, Tune you didn't spend nearly enough time on him. He was nothing more than a glorified AE machine. That's a lot of wasted credit, even more so since it backfired. I don't know Streen so I can't give you advice beyond what I said in the last section, but how you used him in this round is just...no. On the other hand Selenial made a viable scenario involving taking out Streen, and for the lack of focus on Streen on Tune's account I give Selenial the edge here. Formating I put this here as a joke, but now I might as well use it. Tune your posts are a pain to read (and it has nothing to do with the content of it). Some of it I covered before, but quoting full pages, linking stuff in the middle of the paragraph, and all around awful formating really shot you in the foot. Sometimes I was just glossing over some of the paragraphs you wrote, and I never, I repeat never read any of the long quotes. tl;dr for real. I know you and Sel don't see eye to eye, but if nothing else at least copy her formating. It will do you wonders. Since it was just a joke category I'm not gona actually give and edge here to Sel. Sorry master. Vote Selenial. Advice Still Nerf Selenial. Not even joking. The actual advices I put into the respective categories. Edited August 18, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 tremble before the most detailed, most accurate vote so far in this tournament: lightsaber combat selenial force abilities selenial teamwork & tactics selenial handling the environment selenial miscellaneous selenial formating selenial vote selenial advice nerf selenial tldr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) tldr. Edited August 17, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 OK, I'm not going to bother with a big long post or something. I'm just gonna get it out of the way, because I'm gonna be busy tbh. So here's my vote: Sel wins. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 OK, I'm not going to bother with a big long post or something. I'm just gonna get it out of the way, because I'm gonna be busy tbh. So here's my vote: Sel wins. You're welcome. My vote was so much more detailed. How you gona convince Beni like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 My vote was so much more detailed. How you gona convince Beni like that? You doubt the influence that I possess. Few words are needed to convey the truth of my view. He is adequately convinced, regardless of what he openly says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You doubt the influence that I possess. Few words are needed to convey the truth of my view. He is adequately convinced, regardless of what he openly says. I hope all posts are as detailed and unbiased as your 2 have been thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm voting: tune. Of course I could go into the reasons why I am, but considering that no one is taking this voting seriously I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I hope all posts are as detailed and unbiased as your 2 have been thank you. Well if you insist... The fact remains that Selenial adequately countered all of your points, developed new ones, emphasized battlefield applications of the Force, disproved several or all of your most important points, and generally just outdebated you in every way. She hit every argument possible and disproved your points. That's a win for me. Edit: This doesn't really need an explanation, man. From the very beginning she took the fight to you and tore your arguments apart. Your most important points she dominated you on. This was, imo, one sided. Edited August 17, 2015 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) That awkward moment when the votes are more heated than the actual thread. I do however appreciate the sentiment And encourage you all to be detailed tbh, whether you feel it's needed or not. You'd be surprised how much these votes matter. Edited August 17, 2015 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) And encourage you all to be detailed tbh, whether you feel it's needed or not. You'd be surprised how much these votes matter. I tried, but it was hard All the sections looked something like this at my first draft: "Sel argument was more convincing so Krayt > Kyp...." etc. After the 3rd section I was like "**** it". Edited August 17, 2015 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I tried, but it was hard All the sections looked something like this at my first draft: "Sel argument was more convincing so Krayt > Kyp...." etc. After the 3rd section I was like "**** it". You might as well *shrug* I guess a short detailed rundown of why those categories go to me (in your view) will work. We never said you had to give props to both sides, it can just be more convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 You might as well *shrug* I guess a short detailed rundown of why those categories go to me (in your view) will work. We never said you had to give props to both sides, it can just be more convincing. I'll think about it tomorrow, right now I'm wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm not voting in this match, way too much......stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'm not voting in this match, way too much......stuff Personally just frustrated that 1v1 matches with me in them always turn into me fighting 3 people instead of 1, and all I get to hear from those same people is how much of a horrible person I am for daring to make a claim of even teams exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Personally just frustrated that 1v1 matches with me in them always turn into me fighting 3 people instead of 1, and all I get to hear from those same people is how much of a horrible person I am for daring to make a claim of even teams exist. Trust me its not directed solely you. Example: If anything, your claim about Kyp having the best TK actually convinced me. Edited August 18, 2015 by ShadowMudkip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Trust me its not directed solely you. I know, just saying personal view point. Salt is every where in this lol, I cant blame you for not voting, just wish I could have had 1 match where I didnt get raged at by the exact same people over and over again, thus actually have a chance for a clean debate that has people who want to actually vote. Edited August 18, 2015 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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