SWTOR Duelling Tournament - Round 1C: Selenial vs Tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Tunewalker has promised to be polite tbh, I'm sure we can keep things civil. However no rush if you're busy.

 

Did I?... I guess I can try lol , no but seriously I will say this to all competitors right now... if you are not prepared for me to claim the most powerful member of my team is = to the most powerful member of your team, then you are not prepared at all. I came prepared to hear my opponents team is just better then mine, and to not only fight against that but show it as irrelevant. I would have posted yesterday the continuation of my post, but I have been very busy. Tonight I should probably get to a partial continuation, but obviously not complete. If you wanted to move on to voting though more power to you lol

Edited August 7, 2015 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I know what this match is going to turn into, and to be quite honest it's hard to motivate oneself to willingly go into something like that.

 

Especially if you're already incredibly busy...

 

I'm sorry, Sel. I was concerned is all. Whenever you get the chance let me know what you're going to do, OK?

[tunewalker]

Ok so Kyp vs Krayt extended.

 

 

Lightsaber skill

 

 

In this category I actually give Kyp a small edge, as noted several times he has kept up with some of the best duelists of all time like Luke

"Funny." He advanced toward Kyp in mock menace. "Is this every Master for himself?"

 

Kyp shrugged and ignited his own lightsaber. "Might as well."

 

Luke heard snap-hisses as the other Masters lit their weapons. This friendly exercise would be horribly dangerous to anyone but a Jedi Master, but all of those present were so in tune with the Force and one another that the odds of a mishap were, as usual, almost nil.

 

Luke charged Kyp but then, well outside lightsaber strike range, skidded to an abrupt halt. Kyp's face had just enough time to register suspicion before Luke exerted himself through the Force, reaching upward to tree limbs that had grown out over the outpost. He yanked downward. A broad branch slapped down atop Kyp, bearing him to the landing pad surface and sending leaves swirling out all over the roof.

 

Kyp laughed and rolled free, coming up to his feet. "No fair."

 

"Tactical superiority is never fair.'"

 

"I mean, getting leaves and bugs in my hair."

 

Luke felt the approach of Cilghal from behind. He leapt up and backward, inverting as he flew, and blocked the Mon Cal Master's strike with his blade in passing. He landed behind her. A few meters away, Saba Sebatyne and Corran Horn dueled, each adopting a traditional, formalized lightsaber posture-Saba using a lightsaber in each hand, Corran with his own weapon adjusted to its second setting, its blade now three meters in length and a brilliant Purple instead of its usual silver. Octa Ramis, who had sup-plied Saba with her second weapon, was content to stand off to one side, using the Force to hurl stones, plucked from the ground far below, through the tumult of practicing Masters. Kyle Katarn stood near her, watching all the others, practicing ritualized sword forms and waiting for an opponent to come open.

 

Kyp advanced against Luke again, striking at Luke's ankles while Cilghal engaged the Grand Master's blade. Luke danced over the low strike and put a foot into Cilghal's torso, more of a push than a kick, before landing again. The Mon Cal staggered back a few steps, offering a nod of appreciation.

 

Kyp threw a succession of fast blows at Luke's shoulders, occupying him while Cilghal recovered. "Actually, it's a plan for a mission against Jacen. A capture-or-neutralize, "he said, his lightsaber flashing at Luke.

 

"Neutralize." Luke frowned. He circled Kyp, trying to put him in the middle of their three-way exchange, but Cilghal paced him so that Luke remained in the center. "Meaning 'kill.' "

 

Kyp nodded, not repentant. "This isn't a mission of assassination, Luke. But if the capture isn't clean, if the choice is to run away and leave him in charge of the Alliance or finish him then and there ..."

 

"Yeah." Luke felt Cilghal's approach behind him. He bent over backward, his lightsaber hand coming down on the landing pad surface to hold his upper body clear of it, and Cilghal's lightsaber passed through where his waist would have been. Luke instantly straightened, catching her hilt with his free hand, and stepped away, her lightsaber now in his grip. He twirled one blade at each Master. "Go on."

 

With an exasperated sigh, Cilghal stepped back and exerted herself toward Kyle. The man's lightsaber leapt free from his grip and flew to Cilghal's. Kyle offered no resistance. Cilghal caught it out of the air, called "Thank you," and dashed toward Corran.

 

Kyp looked dubiously at Luke's twin weapons and fell into a defensive posture. "The team will consist of one or two Masters, three or four Jedi Knights, and a native guide. They'll approach the Senate Building through the undercity." As Luke neared and began throwing probing attacks in quick succession, Kyp deflected them close to his body with equal speed and minimal movement. "When Jacen enters or leaves the building, they spring the trap. Coma gas and shock nets as the first wave, the Jedi making their direct assault immediately afterward." He stopped to stare intently at Luke.

 

Luke felt the attack-the Force, propelling numerous small objects at him. He jumped back and brought up both lightsabers as a shower of old nuts and bolts came at him with missile speed. It was like defending himself against Yuuzhan Vong thud bugs for the first time in years, but the old skill was undiminished-he calculated which objects had a chance of hitting him and incinerated only them with his blades, letting the others fly harmlessly past.

 

The trouble was, the ones that flew past soon curved around for another attack.

 

Meanwhile, Kyp continued, "We have a shuttle or other enclosed vehicle land for a quick extraction. But the trick is, it's an empty droid vehicle. Our group, with Jacen, their captive, actually reenters the undercity through a ground-side maintenance access hatch modified to serve as an exit. While the shuttle makes its escape run and draws off pursuit, our group goes back the way it came to the true departure point."

 

"Who's the team leader?"

 

Kyp shrugged. "Not determined yet."

 

Corran's and Kyle's voices rose simultaneously: "Me."

 

Luke, thoughtful, finished incinerating the last of the flying bolts. He switched off Cilghal's lightsaber and tossed it over his shoulder. He heard it slap down into her big webbed hand. "What about your native guide? Someone to get you through the undercity, I'm guessing. Do you trust him?"

 

Kyp nodded.

 

"Not as far as I can throw her." That was Corran, his voice punctuated by zaps as Saba advanced on him, trying to bat his longer blade aside.

 

Kyp made a sour face. "Horn, you can't throw anybody any distance. With the Force, anyway. This calls your judgment into question."

 

"Her." Luke switched off his lightsaber. "Maybe I should meet her."

 

Kyp deactivated his own weapon. "She's one level down. I can have her come up if you want to meet her now."

 

Source: Legacy of the Force: Fury

 

Jaina

 

Jaina laughed. "I wish Uncle Luke could hear this! Paralysis and inactivity, not the dark side, will overcome the Jedi. Haven't you said that a hundred times?"

 

He blew out a long sigh. "When is another pilot due to go out?"

 

"She's powering up now," Jaina admitted.

 

The older Jedi spun toward the door. Jaina pulled her lightsaber.

 

Kyp stopped dead at the click and hum unique to the traditional Jedi weapon. He slowly turned to face her, hands raised in a placating gesture. "I don't want to fight you."

 

Her violet blade rose toward his throat. "You'd change your mind if the stakes were high enough."

 

"Don't be ridiculous. You wouldn't kill me even if you could!"

 

"The idea isn't without a certain appeal, but it's not what I had in mind. If I win, you fly the rest of this battle under my command. If you win, I'm yours. No more holding out, no more games. I'll keep the channels open, act like a real apprentice."

 

He considered her for a long moment. "Done."

 

His lightsaber leapt from his belt, flipped in midair, and slapped down into his hand. The glowing blade hissed toward her. Jaina vaulted above the flamboyant attack and flipped over Kyp's head. He rolled aside to avoid a possible slashing counter and came up in a crouch.

 

Jaina backed down the stairs, her weapon at high guard. He advanced, then darted forward with a quick feinting lunge.

 

She anticipated his move and leaned away from it, then quickly changed directions and lunged for him, sweeping her arm up into a rising parry that threw his lightsaber out wide. Her wrist twisted deftly to disengage the shining blades, and then she leapt straight up.

 

Kyp somersaulted down the stairs, turned, and came up with his lightsaber held high and ready. The younger Jedi dropped to the floor beside him and delivered two quick, testing jabs. He parried both. They drew apart and circled, taking each other's measure, exchanging blows that became less tentative with each strike.

 

Jaina's confident smile began to falter. "I'm not going to let you stop this next flight."

 

She whirled away from Kyp's high, slashing attack and caught his weapon in an overhead parry. A quick twist brought her around to face him. He disengaged and stepped back. "Who said I wanted to stop the mission? I want to fly it."

 

Jaina blinked. "You do?"

 

"If the mission is that important, I'll go myself."

 

"Forget it. The Jedi are too few and too valuable to risk."

 

"I know," he agreed, "and that's precisely why I need to go."

 

She stepped back, still in guard position, and eyed him warily.

 

"Let's just say I'm taking my responsibilities seriously. I don't want my apprentice to make some of the same mistakes I made."

 

Jaina's lightsaber flashed forward, forcing him to parry. "What apprentice? You haven't beaten me yet."

 

"I will," he said with a cocky smile. "And we both know it. We also know how difficult expectations can be. You've got to live up to your famous parents, which in some ways is even more difficult than living down a monumental failure."

 

"You can't compare our situations."

 

"We both lost brothers."

 

"And maybe hitting the Yuuzhan Vong hard will give some meaning to my brothers' deaths."

 

"I tried to avenge my brother," Kyp reminded her, "and I ended up killing him. Your mother thinks Jacen's still alive. What if she's right?"

 

Jaina lowered her lightsaber, and her face was a study of stunned fury. The older Jedi shifted his weight to the balls of his feet, gaining balance in preparation for the coming attack.

 

But Jaina switched off her weapon. "You want the mission?

 

Source: The New Jedi Order: Dark Journey

 

and is noted as a top of the lightsaber duelist by Luke beating even HIM when he isnt in top form

 

He was good; Luke gave him that. He might have been a match for an expert swordsmaster such as Kyp or Kyle Katarn. He would have been too much for a comparatively diffident duelist such as Cilghal, or even Luke as he had been back at Sinkhole Station, at low ebb in physical and mental strength.

 

Source: Fate of the Jedi: Backlash

 

While Krayt is also good, he lost to a group of Vong when Kyp was one of the first to face them and escape, albiet in his fighter, but he also defeated entire groups of them with out ever being captured, and honestly I dont see any reason to think his skills increased all that much more. Krayt's most notable opponents that he has defeated are all his students, of course he would know how to dismantel and defeat the people he taught. And yes they themselves were highly skilled, but I see no reason to think they were any more skilled then Krayt was when he fought and lost to Obi-wan, but the mere fact that Krayt could keep up with Obi, and the effort needed for the vong to take him into custody, as well as the high skill of Krayt's students is why the edge is only small. Doing as well as Krayt did is no small feat by any means, and shows a highly skilled duelist, but I just think that it is just a tiny rung bellow the displays of skill Kyp has shown against Luke and Jaina, as well as Luke's faith in his abilities, but again this is only a small edge and by no means a sure fire way to win.

 

 

 

 

 

Force power:

 

 

This one I actually was originally thinking would be a tie or one I could get Kyp the edge in, but when thinking about it more, I just cant say that Kyp has the tactical force power edge. Telekinetically Kyp is more then Krayt's Match, between magnitude abilities like moving Mini black holes (who have enough mass to move fighters and fighter speeds, for that much mass to exist and it able to swallow the ship itself if they arent careful, the mass of these things would have to be near that of the second Death Star, that is a Singularity after all, small but massive and dense as all get out) to precision as shown in his battle with Luke, but as I have said if there isnt something that big to move there isnt something that big to move, and there is nothing in this hangar that Krayt would be unable to move, and in redirecting the rocks thrown at him by Wryylrock Krayt to shows great precicion, In terms of Tk waves, Krayt was capable of destroying pillars and Kyp while learning as a padawan with out meaning to incinerated some rats with a wave.

 

Alarmed, Kyp lost control of his anger for an instant and let fly a searing blast of power that followed the two rodents down their narrow tunnels and incinerated them as they ran. Blackened bones tumbled forward with the momentum, then slumped to dust in the stone tunnel.

 

Source: Dark Apprentice

 

but even if I can argue Kyp's superiority in TK with the black hole feat I can not ignore the lack of black holes, nor can I ignore Krayts own mastery of precise TK work. Where Krayt takes the edge here is honestly his Force Lightning. Kyp Rarely used this power with out the assistance of Kun, even though he knew it, and because of that his proficiency with this technique never really showed all that great, Krayt on the other hand has shown both magnitude with the ability and precise work with it. These 2 things make him an extrodinarily good Lightning master capable of stunning or killing just about any Jedi, even Kyp. This would give him a large edge, if it wasnt for the fact that Kyp is still more then capable of blocking it with his saber, but even then this is one more fast and easy to throw out attack that even if just a portion got through could slow Kyp enough to give Krayt the edge. For this reason I must give Krayt the overall Edge in Force powers.

 

 

(there are other combative force abilities both of these people used, but I didnt find them really used often enough or relevant enough to make any real change on the verdict in this category.

 

 

 

Handling the Terrain

 

 

Kind of handled in TK portions of the Force showing, but it wasnt handled all the way. One of the great things about this terrain IS the varying size of the objects, but even better is the varying peaks and valleys of the terrain itself. Between the floor level and the Grating walk way, stairs and all the rest of the varying terrain should it want to be used. This is again where I believe Kyp has shown slightly superior use of such terrain, using things like changing heights to constantly shift the battle with Jaina as shown in the saber duel with her. The stuff I have seen from krayt he seems to either follow his opponent pressing the assault and rarely uses and abuses the terrain prefering to fight a pure flat land battle when he can. I dont think he is incapable of it, just that it does not seem to be his forte to utilize a shifting enviroment or to attempt to utilize an enviroment with a lot of potential shifts to his advantage, he seems more reactive then proactive when terrain is taken into account, meaning another small edge to Kyp.

 

 

 

Tactics

 

 

These 2 are most assuredly tactical genuises, Krayt both a long term planner and a master of the opportune moment. He knows when to strike and when to wait, making him a very dangerous mental foe to go up against, but in combat again Kyp has shown both of these qualities as well as an inventive side creating new methods for attack on the fly allowing him to hit his opponent in unsuspecting ways. Slight edge Kyp

 

 

 

 

Overall: while I would like to say... LOOK Kyp won the most categories so he must be the winner , I cant... the force one was a really huge category and one of the clearer categories in this match, so while Kyp had the edge in the others they were small enough that they would only cumatively work to counter out that one advatage of Krayt. In the end I declare the fight between these 2 individuals to be equal, meaning that this match will obviously come down to more then just a show down between the 2 strongest.

Edited August 8, 2015 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

I laughed... really really hard.

[tunewalker]

I laughed... really really hard.

 

I am glad I could bring joy to your life

 

 

Edit: and dont worry Sel, I am not banking on any of this. You know better then that by now. What I am banking on will cause more

Edited August 8, 2015 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Sel, any idea when you'll be available or have more time for this? #Concerned

[Selenial]

Sel, any idea when you'll be available or have more time for this? #Concerned

 

Bruh you're not even arbiter.

 

And no, but soon

[Aurbere]

Bruh you're not even arbiter.

 

And no, but soon

 

I'm sorry. Just concerned is all. You seemed to be pretty down in previous posts.

[cs_zoltan]

Tune if you are quoting something longer than 4 lines again I'm reporting you.

 

No, but seriously. You don't need a whole duel to make a point. Use feats from it or the conclusion of the duel. For example when I said that Kenobi could deflect Force Blasts from Anakin I didn't quote the whole Mustafar duel...

[Beniboybling]

I laughed... really really hard.

The debate hasn't even gotten started yet, let's calm it down.

[tunewalker]

Tune if you are quoting something longer than 4 lines again I'm reporting you.

 

No, but seriously. You don't need a whole duel to make a point. Use feats from it or the conclusion of the duel. For example when I said that Kenobi could deflect Force Blasts from Anakin I didn't quote the whole Mustafar duel...

 

Noted, Will try to make it simpler in the future, thank you for the tip.

[Beniboybling]

I find it easier just to underline the important parts.

[Selenial]

edit: Not gonna bother. Nvm Edited August 8, 2015 by Selenial

[tunewalker]

K'kruhk vs Wryylok

 

 

Ok so I am going to try to approach this very similarly to before.

 

 

 

Lightsaber:

 

 

For K'kruhk we can see that he very much prefers using pure lightsaber in combat over mixing it up with his force powers. And when you look at some of his feats with a saber its kind of easy to see why

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/14/147508/4316359-vos+vs+k'kruhk+%2363+(4).png

 

him dominating Quinlon Vos in the Martial part of their combat, and again being the only Master that Greivous could not just overpower on Hypori in fact the saber that Greivous took from K'kruhk on that day was marked as one of the general's personal favorites, marking him as one of the best opponents Greivous had ever faced, even if he was very tired on that day. All of this was still during hte clone wars, when K'kruhk was still not experienced as he would be later in life during when ever his prime would actually be.

 

Wryylok was also a highly skilled duelist, just under Krayt (probably a margin slightly higher then I am thinking, but still extremely skilled in his own right) but honestly I dont see any reason to think he is any more skilled then K'kruhk has shown by being at least on par with or better then Duelists such as Shaak Ti, Quinlon Vos and Mundi, both of these people are showing to be just bellow the top tier duelists in the Mythos and when it comes to skill I feel are easily comparable to one another. The place that K'kruhk takes the obvious edge is he can just out last his opponent and is stronger, that Whipid Physiology, as well as his other endurance feats just gives him that tiny bit more of an edge that I think in a Saber duel he can just out last his opponent until he gets tired and then take control, but obivously this is by the smallest of margins as until Wryylrock starts to tire its just going to be these guys trading good powerful blows and trying to get a 1 up on their opponent.

 

 

 

Force Powers:

 

 

Again this is where my enemies team takes the advantage, not do to power, but do to application. By keeping up with the force enhancements, or cybernetic enhancements of other force users such as Vos (with Vos's speed) or Greivous, not to mention http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692947-k%27kruhk+brings+down+ship+2.png and http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692948-k%27kruhk+brings+down+ship+3.png , or http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692953-k%27kruhk+holds+up+debris.png and his good senses and telepathic skills that likely allowed him to survive order 66 http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4692862 even being capable of healing wounds that are beyond the physical http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4692896 all showing that he is most assuredly powerful, but he rarely employs these abilities in a combat scenario, preffering to rely entirely on his saber skills and extensive melee combat capabilities http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4692886 , but that's again not to say that he is entirely incapable of using the force in combat http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692929-k%27kruhk+sends+multiple+yinchorri+flying.png or http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/4692965-k%27kruhk+the+archer+7.png as an example shown above when he took on a group of pirates to get the younglings back with just a bow and some arrows, his arrows werent exactly just being shot and let go, he was deffinately directing them with his telekinetic skills (showing precision should he desire it), but Wryylock has just shown far more likely hood to do these kinds of attacks in combat, between force lightning that was capable of shattering pillars to TK assaulting an opponent with multiple rocks, Wryylrock has often used his force abilities extensively in a combat scenario and for this reason, and the fact that Wryylrock himself is ALSO a powerful force wielder I have no choice but to give him the edge here, but again its not power as K'kruhk has definately proven to be a powerful force wielder, but application as K'kruhk almost never employs his force powers in a battle against opposing force wielders.

 

 

 

 

Tactics:

 

 

Both of these people are again very good tacticians, from what I know of Wyylrock his best tactics seem to be the long term tactics, and I dont think that will help him much here. K'kruhk though isnt much better off as his tactics are very "large scale" a lot which wont help him here. But for what I know I am still giving K'kruhk the slight edge in tactics as he has shown small scale battle field tactics http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4692923 or even just solo as shown against the pirates earlier. This could easily change with more knowledge on Wyylrock, though I doubt it will matter much to the overall of my argument once that is done.

 

 

 

Handling the Enviroment.

 

 

While K'kruhk has handled all kinds of enviroments as I have shown above or even utilizing high grounds such as https://www.google.com/search?q=k%27kruhk+ISP&biw=1920&bih=979&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIgICDz_uaxwIVFjWICh11ZQ3R#imgrc=H-U9sck55-UNiM%3A , but this enviroment is not one that he has shown any particular means in which he will use it, beyond those tid bits above. Wyylrock on the other hand basically goes back to the force power section, the amount of stuff for him to abuse, and so much more I feel an edge must be given to Wyylrock for this category overall, but its by no mean larger.

 

 

 

Overall: This one is a close one all around, but I think do to the advantages in force power applications I do feel that Wyylrock would eventually win, it will be along battle but eventually Wyylrock would come out on top, having exhausted K'kruhk with his use of terrain and force powers, but it is by no means large.

Edited August 9, 2015 by tunewalker

[cs_zoltan]

Alright Tune here's my second round of suggestions:

 

Don't use full links in the middle of the paragraphs. I lose 1 minute of my life every time I see that. You could just say what you want to say, and then after the paragraph list your sources. Like this for example:

In either engagement my argument is the same. While Ti and Kenobi will undoubtedly work well together as a team, the Brothers will act in perfect sync, and buffet their opponents with their their physical prowess and their Force abilities. Ti will be able to resist and push back, but Kenobi simply will not. Under this level of stress Kenobi will falter, vulnerable to both their physical and Force-based offense, and I feel I've more than adequately demonstrated what when off his game, Kenobi is easily defeated, by Maul and Savage both no less. A final reminder:

 

Exhibit A: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1oWW6cJn8s&t=0m16s

Exhibit B:

Or you could use the actual words to hide the link, a lot more readable. Like this:

Shaak Ti knows Force Stealth, she can sneak up on Maul, since as far as I know Maul doesn't have substantial sense feat that would suggest he could see through it, especially when he is occupied with Kenobi. After that there are various ways Ti and Kenobi can deal with Maul. He is no match for their combined might, not to mention their ingenuity. If they haven't yet, now Kenobi and Ti can start pulling tricks out of their sleeve. These include Electronic Manipulation, Beast Control, subtle TK, Consitor Sato. Ti could even pick up Savage's saberstaff and use it with a single hand in combination with her standard lightsaber, she used this tactic before

. Eventually Maul will succumb.

 

After that a 3on1 duel is a sure loss for the Count.

[ShadowMudkip]

Alright Tune here's my second round of suggestions:

 

Don't use full links in the middle of the paragraphs. I lose 1 minute of my life every time I see that. You could just say what you want to say, and then after the paragraph list your sources. Like this for example:

 

Or you could use the actual words to hide the link, a lot more readable. Like this:

 

Actually, I have a question about that. I'm not exactly sure how to hide a hyperlink in words.

[cs_zoltan]

Actually, I have a question about that. I'm not exactly sure how to hide a hyperlink in words.

 

Highlight the word then click the "insert link" button.

[Selenial]

So, I leave to go on holiday tomorrow. That's actually a good thing, because it's more of a retreat style holiday and I'll have plenty of time to blast through some books while enjoying the Norwegian Fjords

 

The journey's like 10 hours so I'm planning on writing out my argument then, and posting it sometime tomorrow or the day afterward. Sorry for the delay, I've been too busy and too unwilling to focus on more than one thread.

 

No need to worry though, I imagine I'll make short work of Tunewalker

[tunewalker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI :15

 

Really wish I knew how to link things starting where I want it but hey.... it is what it is. Will be busy tomorow, but I can of course let full my plans Thursday if you have made your arguments.

[Aurbere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI :15

 

Really wish I knew how to link things starting where I want it but hey.... it is what it is. Will be busy tomorow, but I can of course let full my plans Thursday if you have made your arguments.

 

On the video you want to link, click 'share' and then set the time in the box and link it with the time stamp. Example:

 

[Silenceo]

On the video you want to link, click 'share' and then set the time in the box and link it with the time stamp. Example:

 

 

Really? For me, I pause it where I want it to start, right click the bump that indicates the time in the video, and then hit 'copy video at current time' or something like that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The maddening part? Not even sure what the variable is...

[cs_zoltan]

Really? For me, I pause it where I want it to start, right click the bump that indicates the time in the video, and then hit 'copy video at current time' or something like that. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The maddening part? Not even sure what the variable is...

 

Well then just write ?t=XmYs to the end of the link.

X = minute

Y = second, in case you didn't get it

[Silenceo]

Well then just write ?t=XmYs to the end of the link.

X = minute

Y = second, in case you didn't get it

 

I sometimes do that when the video refuses to allow me to link it at certain times.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

Ok, so just to throw it out there, I'm 100% not going to reply to either of Tune's posts. Mainly because I think the idea that K'kruhk > Vos and Ti is enough to warrant placing someone in a mental hospital, but also because my arguments for my characters should be more than enough on their own, as Tune's already made his case for Kyp Durron, K'kruhk and the others.

 

Anyway, here’s the first of my posts:

 

Darth Krayt vs Kyp Durron

 

In terms of general power level, I feel like Kyp is being a tad overrated here. He's impressive, don't get me wrong, but he's not Krayt level. I sincerely and violently object to the use of baseless and unquanitifiable quotes to raise a character as high as possible, so I'm going to ignore the quotes about his force potential. Don't get me wrong, they're impressive, but the fact Kyp's written in prose and thus has more eloquent hype isn't exactly a solid foundation for saying he's Krayt's superior.

 

While yes, Kyp was a candidate for facing Caedus, I think the fact the Jedi didn't send him is telling. What's more, they didn't even choose to send him as support for Jaina. Why? Because he would not have stood a chance against him, even with her support. On the flip side, Caedus feared Krayt's power so much he willingly embraced the Dark Side in an attempt to gain the power to stop him. So I mean, there's that

 

Anyway, the breakdown:

 

Lightsaber Abilities:

 

Krayt is a demon, easily one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time. I found your post regarding his abilities, Tunewalker, to be amazingly biased and selective. To suggest Krayt barely increased in skill after his time as a Jedi, really? To say the greatest Sith in the One Sith Empire are the equals of average Jedi Knights? I'm genuinely disappointed, I expected better.

 

Sufficed to say, you missed almost all of Krayt's best feats. He faced off against and defeated 4 imperial Knights, speedblitzing them. Note that Krayt was not in his prime here, he was weakened both physically and in his connection to the force:

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636349/

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636350

 

Now these were some of the best Imperial Knights out there, and you need to understand what that means. Imperial Knights were equals of the Jedi in their whole, but were far more martially focussed, become better combatants and duelists. They had stronger armor and cortosis weave bracers that could deflect Lightsaber strikes. Not to mention they developed two forms of Lightsaber combat specifically for working as a team with other Imperial Knights. So in short, Krayt blitzed 4 duelists and force users who were stronger than Jedi with much better cohesion. Sources below:

 

"The Imperial Knights are among the most talented and dangerous Force-users in the galaxy. Skilled in combat, they train under the tutelage of their Imperial masters, learning all they need to know to defend Emperor Roan Fel against all those who would harm him. The Imperial Knights are skilled with both the lightsaber and with the Force, and make extensive use of combat armor, including their special cortosis gauntlets designed to stop lightsaber attacks. From the start of their training until they reach knighthood, the Imperial Knights learn how to use the Force to transform themselves into living weapons and shields."

The Legacy Era Campaign Guide

 

"Though their numbers are small, the Imperial Knights are fully trained Force-users, with all the skills and abilities of a Jedi."

Star Wars: Legacy #0.5

 

"Despite opinions to the contrary, Imperial Knights are every bit as capable in the use of the Force as their Jedi counterparts, though their training has considerably more martial focus."

Legacy Era Campaign Guide

 

"Skilled in the art of lightsaber combat, the Imperial Knights use many of the same combat training techniques as the Jedi, and have learned to fight in many of the same lightsaber dueling styles. However, the Imperial Knights are also masters of two unique lightsaber combat forms that place greater emphasis on teamwork than one's individual prowess. The more aggressive style, known as praetoria vonil,focuses on moving quickly and striking hard. The more defensive style, known as praetoria ishu, emphasizes protecting one's allies to allow them to find openings in an opponent's defences."

Legacy Era Campaign Guide

 

This alone is far greater than anything Kyp Durron has ever done as a duelist. Though if you need more, Krayt was called a Master duelist during time as a jedi, and became more experienced and skilled afterwards.

 

"A master duelist, Hett also fashioned a bisected gaffi stick for Hoar, tutoring him to fight with two weapons simultaneously."

Starwars.com

 

"I completed training as both Jedi and Sith. I honed my skills in the Clone Wars and I've killed thousands of opponents since then."

 

"Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades and his skills with telekinesis and Sith lightning far outstripped those of any Sith of his era."

Star Wars Insider #113

 

Krayt's also stronger, able to lift Cade Skywalker off the ground, choking him with one arm. He also physically dominated Celeste Morne and Darth Wyyrlok III.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636106

 

And he's a master of unarmed combat, also teaching Hoar to mastery of Teras Kasi:

 

Not long after his vision, Hoar’s Force-sensitivity was discovered by his tribal leader, A’Sharad Hett. A Tusken-raised human, who’d left to join the Jedi and become one of the Order’s masters, Hett had returned embittered after narrowly escaping Emperor Palpatine’s Order 66. Hett began cultivating Hoar as his successor, teaching him how to speak rudimentary Galactic Standard, and how to channel his aggression in a Force-based martial art called Teras Kasi. A master duelist, Hett also fashioned a bisected gaffi stick for Hoar, tutoring him to fight with two weapons simultaneously. Hoar proved an apt protege, and while Hett was clearly the clan chieftain, young Raiders idolized Hoar.

starwars.com

 

I'd also like to call into question the idea that Kyp Durron's quote from Luke is actually a feat, worthy of placing him with Krayt. I feel like you've been outrageously selective Tunewalker, selecting a tiny segment of the fight and not the rest.

 

Luke placed Gaalan on the level of Kyp, yes. He also effortlessly defeated him:

 

But Luke, despite recent exertions, had had time to recover. He parried each of Gaalan's blows, and his ripostes-his blade skittering off Gaalan's and thrusting now at the Sith Lord's face, now at shoulder or knee or torso-came increasingly close to touching flesh.

 

Luke smiled at the man.

 

Krayt really isn't far off Luke as a duelist, if Luke can effortlessly defeat someone he thinks is Kyp level, Krayt wouldn't exactly have an easy time of it. To suggest Krayt is inferior to such a creature is ridiculous.

 

Force Powers

 

Surprisingly, I actually agree with Tunewalker here. Krayt is said to be a superior force user to all of his subordinates. This includes Darth Wredd who crashed a satellite dish with Telekinesis, destroying an army of Sith with it. This in itself is actually pretty close to the dovin basal feat from Kyp Durron, and Krayt is said to “Far Surpass” Darth Wredd in Telekinesis.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4605628

Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades and his skills with telekinesis and Sith lightning far outstripped those of any Sith of his era.

Star Wars Insider #113

 

In terms of Telekinesis, you’re right. Both can throw around anything they want in this hangar. I guess the defining factor is how easily they can accomplish it, and I feel like Krayt would have a much easier time of sending around numerous TIE fighters or crates (no pun intended) around.

 

 

Another defining factor is of course, Sith Lightning. Darth Krayt has shown unrivalled mastery in the finer arts of Force Lightning, encasing Darth Talon in lightning while specifically not harming her. He also used Force Lightning to kill a dozen rakghouls.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636478

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636482/

 

It is however just as important to look at the feats of Krayt’s subordinates, as his Lightning is said to far surpass any of theirs. I think the most important case is that of Darth Wyyrlok III. His lightning was enough to shatter two stone pillars.

 

I think it needs to be noted that Darth Tyranus’ lightning failed to shatter stone in Attack of the Clones, yet Wyyrlok’s manages to obliterate two columns. Krayt not only can far surpass this lightning, but has the ability to deflect it effortlessly.

 

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4636597

 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Kyp Durron deflect firepower of this magnitude. Krayt is a more powerful natural force wielder than Kyp, and can let loose copious amounts of Force Lightning. If it strikes Kyp while he is unguarded by his blade, like Krayt did against Cade Skywalker here, sufficed to say Kyp will go down. On the other hand, if it strikes Kyp while his guard is up and he’s forced to deflect it by hand, it will require immense amounts of effort, and leave him open to attack by Wyyrlok III or Talon. Either of which are perfectly intuned with Krayt, and both of which could afford to break their assault momentarily to end Kyp’s life.

 

 

I guess we also need to remember the fact that Krayt is nigh unkillable, thanks to his Dark Transfer. Your team can win by knocking him out, but that won’t happen unless Talon and Wyyrlok are also dead, a feat that will be difficult to accomplish while Krayt is alive. For his other force powers however, he knows Alter Environment, Tutaminis, Force Illusions and more:

 

“Thunder from a storm outside vibrated the walls of the tower. Rain thumped against the windows. Lightning traced a jagged seam the length of the night sky, the flash casting the soaring tombs and spires of Korriban in silhouette.

Staring out at the storm through the large transparisteel window, Wyyrlok wondered if the Master controlled the weather on Korriban, even as he journeyed in dreams.”

Riptide

 

“Darth Krayt begins placing himself in stasis, issuing his orders telepathically while artificially extending his lifespan with a combination of healing trances and Yuuzhan Vong implants.”

Legacy Era Campaign Guide

 

“Not for the first time, he wondered how much of recent events the Master had foreseen, how far into the future the Master's foresight extended. It was as though the Master had a recorder on the eye of fate, and through it saw and anticipated events like no one else.

Despite himself, Wyyrlok felt awed by the Master's power.”

Riptide

 

Should Krayt get wounded, he can heal it. Should the jedi hatch a plan, he will foresee it. As HK-47 explains, hatching a plan against a Force User will generally result in it failing. Hatching one against Krayt will result in your painful and excruciating demise.

 

Finally, Krayt will have far better team cohesion than Kyp Durron will, surprisingly. Talon and Wyyrlok’s intervention will afford him numerous advantages, and he doesn’t even need to kill Kyp, just create an opening. While the two most powerful titans on each team usually last the longest, the gap between Krayt and Kyp is enough that Kyp will be the first to fall. Though I will get to that in my next post, for now I’m heading to bed.

[Aurbere]

Why are Sel's layouts always superior to mine? I think she does that on purpose.