Full Auto for Vanguard

[NeoNSoNicXJR]

An idea to make this move adequate for Vanguard if its restored since it has not been given a better replacement yet:

 

Full Auto for Vanguard trainable at level 10, able to channel while moving (given Vanguard carries blaster rifles/carbines)

passive abiltiy for Vanguard Into the Fray: Ion Pulse / Tactical Surge finish the cooldown of full auto cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

Possible bonuses for for Shield Specialist, Plasmatech, Tactics:

 

Shield Specialist: FInishing a full, full auto channel finshes the cooldown of neural jolt, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Plasmatech: Finishing a full, full auto channel finishes the cooldown of firepulse, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Tactics: Finishing a full, full auto channel finishes the cooldown of Assault Plastique, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Simple but effective ideas to make this move useful for vanguard. Could even be utility points for the bonuses.

 

Thoughts?

 

Also please dont flame I just think vanguard, given its a ranged class with a blaster, could have its signature move back with bonuses especially since the devs gave the class an overhaul, but to me should of made this ability more useful for vanguard if they deemed it ineffective in most situations.

[Gyronamics]

Vanguard currently takes the piss as a "melee" class with substantial range advantages over 4m ranged classes without Full Auto.

 

It is also the most damaging class on the only fights which matter in PVE due to into the fray and aoe damage reflect abuse. None of which shows up on a dummy.

 

As such it does not need a damage increase that a resource efficient high damage channel like Full Auto will give it.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Gyronamics

[NeoNSoNicXJR]

Well its better than nothing, Full auto was kind of like reserve powercell, useful but overlooked.

 

They should put it back in until they find a better move to replace it with to be honest.

 

Not dissing your post either btw, thanks for the input, i guess im just having a hard time figuring out why, the devs would remove it from trooper and give it to commando when both classes specialize in automatic weaponry. when it did have its usefulness, especially in pve when low level. also 30m range doesnt hurt either hehe.

[Gyronamics]

It was removed because after 3.0 it gained so much damage that it became relevant in a single target rotation.

 

The fact that channels after 3.0 became immune to pushback also mattered because that allowed tanks to use it for higher than expected damage.

 

So as the lesser evil it was removed from troopers entirely as a baseline ability to make Vanguards use only the toolkit that was intended.

 

Commandos got it back again as a class ability while Pulse Cannon was made available at a lower level for all troopers to compensate for the loss of the low level Full Auto.

 

Vanguards never did live up to the roleplay of carrying a rifle. 3.0 made it happen but in an unintended way which got crushed.

[NeoNSoNicXJR]

It was removed because after 3.0 it gained so much damage that it became relevant in a single target rotation.

 

The fact that channels after 3.0 became immune to pushback also mattered because that allowed tanks to use it for higher than expected damage.

 

So as the lesser evil it was removed from troopers entirely as a baseline ability to make Vanguards use only the toolkit that was intended.

 

Commandos got it back again as a class ability while Pulse Cannon was made available at a lower level for all troopers to compensate for the loss of the low level Full Auto.

 

Vanguards never did live up to the roleplay of carrying a rifle. 3.0 made it happen but in an unintended way which got crushed.

 

Well to be honest they should add more rifle moves for vanguard, so the class actually lives up to its name, as it is its downright sad how this class is compared to the others, plasmatech could use some serious help, i dont even see how they consider that spec damage. tactics is ok, shield spec could use more blaster moves (or the class as a whole). Example sniper is good in that respect , that it actually uses its gun, vanguard barely uses its gun unless youre tactics, otherwise its ion pulse and a couple toolkit moves that are nothing damage wise in pvp. ive got a sniper move that reads 8602 - 9079 damage on penetrating blasts stacking power surge. Dont even get me started on Shien Form spec jedi / sith. now that is probably the best spec ive ever seen in the whole game, since it can 'rage' while being immune to disabling moves and intantly recover its main damage move, and recover large amounts of health out of nowhere.

 

Also, im not calling for nerfs, im calling for buffs in that respect, especially to this class, (as tactics is the only decent build in pvp). That vanguard needs more blaster moves to actually be fun to play (tactics spec is tolerable, other specs are ****).

 

Again thanks for the constructive feedback instead of trolling like most people do in forums.

[-Healius-]

Im glad the dps have gotten a new change of animation instead of that electric c*** that we once had (tanks however still use it I think)

 

As much as I miss rapid shots there is just no need for it as the spec would be far to OP.

[Smuglebunny]

VG/PT = strongest class in the game by far.

 

They will not be adding it back. They will not be replacing it with another move. They will soon most likely nerf the class further, not buff it. fyi

[-Healius-]

Roll a Commando and watch the bullets fly

[Menaur]

Full Auto will not fit into the Vanguard Pyilosophy - fast instant used attacks

[GhOsTPrOz]

Well its better than nothing, Full auto was kind of like reserve powercell, useful but overlooked.

 

They should put it back in until they find a better move to replace it with to be honest.

 

Not dissing your post either btw, thanks for the input, i guess im just having a hard time figuring out why, the devs would remove it from trooper and give it to commando when both classes specialize in automatic weaponry. when it did have its usefulness, especially in pve when low level. also 30m range doesnt hurt either hehe.

 

Reserve power cell is overlooked? Are you a fool? Any good Vangaurd uses it on CD with 4 stacks of energy lode. And while I do long for full auto back, it was OP as hell, and having it on the move? Would straight out BREAK vanguards to the point I could conjour up a full ranged rotation that would still do about 3k Dps. It's wishful thinking but full auto won't ever return to vanguards.

[GhOsTPrOz]

Im glad the dps have gotten a new change of animation instead of that electric c*** that we once had (tanks however still use it I think)

 

As much as I miss rapid shots there is just no need for it as the spec would be far to OP.

 

You are totally drunk, tanks got a new ion cannon called ion storm, DPS still use the old one, and rapid shots is impside hammer shot, it didn't go anywhere...if it did VGs would be broken and unusable behind a 10k opener. Please don't drink and post, it is dangerous for you and those around you.

[ExeErdna]

An idea to make this move adequate for Vanguard if its restored since it has not been given a better replacement yet:

 

Full Auto for Vanguard trainable at level 10, able to channel while moving (given Vanguard carries blaster rifles/carbines)

passive abiltiy for Vanguard Into the Fray: Ion Pulse / Tactical Surge finish the cooldown of full auto cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

Possible bonuses for for Shield Specialist, Plasmatech, Tactics:

 

Shield Specialist: FInishing a full, full auto channel finshes the cooldown of neural jolt, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Plasmatech: Finishing a full, full auto channel finishes the cooldown of firepulse, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Tactics: Finishing a full, full auto channel finishes the cooldown of Assault Plastique, cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

 

Simple but effective ideas to make this move useful for vanguard. Could even be utility points for the bonuses.

 

Thoughts?

 

Also please dont flame I just think vanguard, given its a ranged class with a blaster, could have its signature move back with bonuses especially since the devs gave the class an overhaul, but to me should of made this ability more useful for vanguard if they deemed it ineffective in most situations.

 

Now that the other 2 classes get Blitz I like those procs and honestly it'll help them. Like with PT you leap you proc Fire burst which then procs 2 shots of Ion burst. it'll speed up combat for them early game since they still need overdrive to really close gaps. Yet with full auto I was more or less thing of giving them carbine burst since for the most part it's useless on smuggler/agents. Yet makes a bit more with PT's and Vans and it gives them some use of their blasters.

[realleaftea]

Full Auto for Vanguard trainable at level 10, able to channel while moving (given Vanguard carries blaster rifles/carbines). Passive abiltiy for Vanguard Into the Fray: Ion Pulse / Tactical Surge finish the cooldown of full auto cannot occur more than once every 8 seconds.

...

I just think vanguard, given its a ranged class with a blaster, could have its signature move back with bonuses especially since the devs gave the class an overhaul, but to me should of made this ability more useful for vanguard if they deemed it ineffective in most situations.

 

Vanguard currently takes the piss as a "melee" class with substantial range advantages over 4m ranged classes without Full Auto.

...

As such it does not need a damage increase that a resource efficient high damage channel like Full Auto will give it.

Well, it doesn't have to be a damage boost! Skills are a random look-&-feel added to a mechanical base. If you want a blaster signature, simply replace the visual. IMO, BioWare didn't do a good job - at least not in case of the Vanguard.

 

Let's assume the following:

 

Basics:

SKILL-1: 0s cooldown, 0 energy => semi-automatic mode (2~3 shots)

SKILL-2: 0s cooldown, 15~20 energy => 6-shot burst mode

 

In other words, replacing Explosive Round with a blaster-centric skill (like Quick Shot). That wouldn't alter the class balance nor would it change the gameplay drastically.

 

And the same would work for Mortar Volley as well. From a mechanical point of view, it's just like a Full Auto with a 45s cooldown. Replace it and you'd have your Full Auto for Vanguards.

 

However, BioWare decided to give these skills the touch of a missile or grenade launcher attack. That's something, I didn't liked and really surprised me! When I started a Vanguard, both Explosive Round and Mortar Volley felt arbitary. I wanted to be a good-sided Stormtrooper, I wanted to use a blaster!!! Not knocking my opponents around with some missiles.

 

And if you ask me, Explosive Round and Mortar Volley would have made much more sense as Shoulder Cannon rockets (consuming ammo (rockets) instead of energy cells).

 

But a bit more on the mechanical aspect of Full Auto:

From a mechanic point of view, a skill with 1.5s activation is just a normal skill that restricts your movement and is made interruptable. And a 3.0s channel skill just represents two normal skills used in a row. It's therefore completely a balance decision, which class will get which version.

 

To ask for more skills to be channelled or activated on the run therefore doesn't make much sense. It destroys the balancing aspect and everything it should do is achievable with normal skills as well. And that's the reason why I'd say, the Vanguard doesn't need Full Auto.

 

But in regard of the Commando:

How does it come that you can use your Assault Cannon to sweep over your enemies (successive Hail of Bolts), but you're somehow completely unable to focus on a single foe continuously. In other words: Hail of Bolts has no cool down, whereas Full Auto has a 15s cool down. Wouldn't that have been more plausible:

 

Gunnery:

SKILL-3: 0s cooldown, 30 energy, 3.0s channel => Full Auto (targeting mode)

SKILL-4: 0s cooldown, 30 energy, 3.0s channel, AoE => Full Auto (sweeping mode)

 

Combined, this would have created a nice, litte Heavy-MG theme Allow the drawbacks to be removed temporarily (i.e. only for a few seconsds or a few uses) and/or limit the movement to half the base speed while using them and BioWare would have created some Terminator or Smartgun (Aliens) theme. But for no apparent reason, BioWare preferred to restrict Full Auto in favor for Charged Bolts.

Edited October 2, 2015 by realleaftea

[clearsighted]

I hate all of the Vanguard's disgusting animations. It's like they just picked the easiest, stupidest way to get it done and move on (explosive surge, I'm looking at you). There always seems to be a weird delay or hitchiness to the animation, as if it were waiting for the non-existent, elaborate powertech animation to finish.

 

Hardly a single interesting or aesthetic move in the entire class, compared to how beautifully a powertech flows.

 

The only good looking ability is probably stock strike, or gut. Throwing the satchel charges is okay.

Edited October 1, 2015 by clearsighted

[Lhancelot]

I hate all of the Vanguard's disgusting animations. It's like they just picked the easiest, stupidest way to get it done and move on (explosive surge, I'm looking at you). There always seems to be a weird delay or hitchiness to the animation, as if it were waiting for the non-existent, elaborate powertech animation to finish.

 

Hardly a single interesting or aesthetic move in the entire class, compared to how beautifully a powertech flows.

 

The only good looking ability is probably stock strike, or gut. Throwing the satchel charges is okay.

 

I used to have a hard time finding enjoyment on VG compared to the PT. PT always seemed more fluid and sensible in it's movements to me.

 

The only movement I enjoyed on VG was stockstrike, the sound and animation was and still is funny/cool to me. I just recently leveled a dps VG and finally got past lvl 30, and I have managed to get over the clunky animations of it.

 

The one good thing about the VGs AE is it's not telegraphed as easily as Death From Above. That PT ability is cool looking, but is so quickly interrupted due to it being so obvious in PVP.

[Frenesi]

I hate all of the Vanguard's disgusting animations. It's like they just picked the easiest, stupidest way to get it done and move on (explosive surge, I'm looking at you). There always seems to be a weird delay or hitchiness to the animation, as if it were waiting for the non-existent, elaborate powertech animation to finish.

 

Hardly a single interesting or aesthetic move in the entire class, compared to how beautifully a powertech flows.

 

The only good looking ability is probably stock strike, or gut. Throwing the satchel charges is okay.

 

2 words. Pulse cannon

[Tenacity]

2 words. Pulse cannon

 

Never made any sense at all to me that we'd be shooting lightning out of our blaster rifles. If they wanted to go that route, they should've had lightning cannons in the game as a seperate weapon class.

 

The only vanguard animation I liked while leveling mine was tactical surge, mostly because combined with the M400 nova carbine it gives you the feel of using a shotgun/scattergun style weapon as a primary.

 

Powertechs definitely got the better animation set, and everything feels more fluid on my powertech as opposed to my vanguard. The VG is always having weird delays and hiccups with ability casts and animations, and I never have those issues with equivalent abilities on my powertech.

[foiblesqt]

I always felt Commandos should use rifles and VGs should have assault cannons.

[Nic__]

I used to have a hard time finding enjoyment on VG compared to the PT. PT always seemed more fluid and sensible in it's movements to me.

 

Honestly though what pub class won vs its imp mirror for animations?

Only one I can think of as close is snipers and gunslingers

[JLazarillo]

Honestly though what pub class won vs its imp mirror for animations?

Only one I can think of as close is snipers and gunslingers

 

Personally, I think Vanguards are one of the two that actually do look better. I enjoy the simplicity, personally, and I like that they actually use their weapon, unlike PTs who run around with a pistol that's mostly useless outside of their free attack. Sentinels also look considerably better than Marauders, IMO.

 

And Sages get an honorable mention, because even though I enjoy Sorcerers' lightning effects a bit more, I hate the awkward "saber just sort of floats in place while you make jazz hands at your target" animation that their channeled abilities have.

[Frenesi]

Honestly though what pub class won vs its imp mirror for animations?

Only one I can think of as close is snipers and gunslingers

 

I prefer sages animations over sorcs - thay have much more impact to them. And scoundrel for me falls in "so bad it's good" category

[Retro_Chrome]

you guys HAVE got to be Kidding...VG animation are far superior to the PT equivalent...

 

Explosive surge is amazing compared to the ballerina twirly thing PTS get

 

Pulse cannon and the tank replacement are both ridiculously cooler looking than the fire move PTs get

 

Stock strike totally superior to whatever PTS use that little jump thing looks ridculous and silly

 

Mortar volley >DFA any day i mean who honestly thinks shooting up into the air making you completely visible and vulnerable while you are rooted and channeling was a good idea?

 

Riot gas is far superior to oil slick the oil slick looks like something a young child would do ina diaper or a drunk would do after a very long night...

 

vanguards get a multitude of damage animations whilst PTs are just fire, more fire,...and still more fire

vanguards have electricity, fire, and magnetic attacks

 

in regards to the audio of fire pulse and cell burst...totally agree they need some type of pop or bass to them as what they have feels empty and non threatening, almost as if they were unfinished

 

i also feel like the swapped the look for shoulder cannon between the two mirrors by accident, why would a Republic Trooper not ever polish and clean his shoulder cannon where as the imp equivalent looks brand new

 

bounty hunters typically live paycheck to paycheck or bounty to bounty and even in the story it says you use modified and jury rigged weapons primarily.

 

(also tactical surge with the czerka rifle has probably the most amazing sound animation i have ever heard)

 

my opinion P.T.S= ballerinas with fire, VG = super b,ada,ss that can wreck shop with fire lightning and other assorted effects

Edited October 15, 2015 by Retro_Chrome

[Retro_Chrome]

oh and on topic: full auto was never fun to use or even fit in with vanguards play style. i would much prefer if they added anything like full auto back in make it instant with a long CD 30 +seconds and make it give something like 2 charges of cell burst stacks and such <insert cool ideas in regards to tank and plasma>

 

i never bothered using full auto before and if they brought it back i would resent having to use it for OPTIMAL DPS

[Torvai]

you guys HAVE got to be Kidding...VG animation are far superior to the PT equivalent...

Matter of opinion

 

But seriously, compare railshot, both in sound and animation, to HiB.

Also, as a PT you can fully live the motto "KIll it with fire!!"

[Tenacity]

I think what vanguard and powertech is really missing is a proper filler attack, which unload used to cover. My pt has to spam flame burst as his filler now, which just looks weird when I'm holding this blaster pistol that I never use. That heat burst attack is the only time my gun ever gets fired, and that doesn't come up very often.

 

I'd really like some kind of blaster burst attack that can be used in that regard.