Zoom_VI Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Your post is a quality post. The problem though is still that over half all damage is going to be unmitigatible if you look at damage as a whole. A big flaw in your methodology is that besides the OH and secondary hits (like Lacerate's) you also have DoTs while autocrits tend to be big attacks that make up a disproportionate share of incoming damage. Against some specific comps it's definitely optimal to stack specific forms of mitigation but for a single set for all PvP it's a lot less attractive. My method was accounting for dots. And really in most cases dots are the only major source of I/E since direct damage I/E attacks are very rare. Excluding Pyrotech since that spec is non-viable even in regs. The worst spec you could go up against is Madness which still has half of it's damage being shieldable. An as stated before when dealing with any pressure strat using any form of gear that reduces your damage taken is going to be BiS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lalainnia Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Nerf shieldtech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Nerf shieldtech Heaven forbid shieldtech actually be viable after being a poor man's juggernaut for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) Heaven forbid shieldtech actually be viable after being a poor man's juggernaut for 3 years. I held your opinion about this for a while after 3.0. But honestly, pt tank sucking before 3.0 doesn't exactly justify how strong it is now relative to the other 2 tanks. Flame sweep spam is actually op. Edited July 29, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousenuendo Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 couple of things.. force/tech damage is 70% of all damage? sorcs = all force scoundrels = all tech all knights = 70% white damage vanguards = only high impact bolt, but that may as well be 50% white damge considering it's one of 5 button they have. mercs = 60% white damage (blazing bolts, rail/mag shot are primary damage in either dps spec, power shot too) gunslingers = 100% white damage minus the occasional vital shot, because you know every optimal GS player uses Sharpshooter. what I'm saying is, don't pretend white damage isn't a factor in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 couple of things.. force/tech damage is 70% of all damage? sorcs = all force scoundrels = all tech all knights = 70% white damage vanguards = only high impact bolt, but that may as well be 50% white damge considering it's one of 5 button they have. mercs = 60% white damage (blazing bolts, rail/mag shot are primary damage in either dps spec, power shot too) gunslingers = 100% white damage minus the occasional vital shot, because you know every optimal GS player uses Sharpshooter. what I'm saying is, don't pretend white damage isn't a factor in pvp. I don't have a hard number atm, but around half if not more of the direct damage in PvP is M/R. However the scales tip towards F/T because the majority of indirect damage sources (namely dots and AoEs) are F/T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obviousenuendo Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I don't have a hard number atm, but around half if not more of the direct damage in PvP is M/R. However the scales tip towards F/T because the majority of indirect damage sources (namely dots and AoEs) are F/T. so what people are saying is defense isn't favorable because of the current meta? I can stand by this. Since big HP pools benefit most from dot ticks, then add the shield/aborsb stuff..that and You can get about 10K extra HP if you try and no single attack should hit you for more than 10K as a tank. yeah makes sense enough.. Edited July 29, 2015 by Obviousenuendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Since big HP pools benefit most from dot ticks, then add the shield/aborsb stuff..that and You can get about 10K extra HP if you try and no single attack should hit you for more than 10K as a tank. yeah makes sense enough.. large HP pools don't "benefit" from dot ticks. Yes I/E dots can't be mitigated, but endurance isn't increasing your mitigation either, which is a problem since all current dotspecs function as pressure specs. And when your team is fighting a pressure team, mitigation becomes vastly more valuable since pressure strats can be treated as a healing check. It's worth noting that the majority of Hatred's damage is mitigatable, and half of madness's damage is also mitigatable. I'm sourcing that from a accounting of dozens of combat log which look at a damage taken. So I don't want to hear crap about dotspread. That said if Plasmatech comps ever become a thing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 That said if Plasmatech comps ever become a thing..... The only spec with more I/E dmg than plasma is ruffian/lethality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) The only spec with more I/E dmg than plasma is ruffian/lethality eeehhhh. The only thing in Pyro's that can be defended is railshot, although railshot as a autocritt cannot be shielded. The only rotational ability that can be shielded in Pyro is the kinetic component of Flaming Fist. That's it.* With Lethality the M/R part of Corrosive Assault is both defendable and shieldable. Shiv is shieldable. Toxic Blast in spite of it's name, is totally K/E M/R, and thus both defendable and shieldable. Lethal Strike's dominant damage component is also K/E and is shieldable. They're both nasty to a tank, but Plasmatech is a bigger threat, especially since Plamatech's dotspread is superior to Leth's. *well I suppose you could count SC, but that's absurdly marginal. Edited July 31, 2015 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakisback Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 (edited) eeehhhh. The only thing in Pyro's that can be defended is railshot, although railshot as a autocritt cannot be shielded. The only rotational ability that can be shielded in Pyro is the kinetic component of Flaming Fist. That's it.* With Lethality the M/R part of Corrosive Assault is both defendable and shieldable. Shiv is shieldable. Toxic Blast in spite of it's name, is totally K/E M/R, and thus both defendable and shieldable. Lethal Strike's dominant damage component is also K/E and is shieldable. They're both nasty to a tank, but Plasmatech is a bigger threat, especially since Plamatech's dotspread is superior to Leth's. *well I suppose you could count SC, but that's absurdly marginal. I wasn't really saying anything besides that leth has more I/E dmg, which is true https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GYtwiR0eZbsGGufe9FMWksHvsJluw0QyLcn_mk4Ms4c/edit#gid=694792952. I know pyro's tank pressure can be real. Edited August 1, 2015 by Kakisback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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