Are Jedi Capable of Imposing Capital Punishment?

[Canareth]

Or what would they actually do if they captured a Sith? Sith don't tend to surrender but they can lose saber hands etc. You can't turn a Sith prisoner over to the Republic, generally (too dangerous). They don't tend to believe Sith are curable. Letting Sith go would just seem to ensure many others would die. Then there are Jedi NPCs in game that let Sith walk away rather than attack to stop them.

 

The Republic did seem to decide to imprison Sith they were *really* afraid of (and somehow captured) on Belsavis. This didn't go well. Also on Belsavis...

 

 

Sith Warriors can force a Jedi Master to execute a very dangerous prisoner. The Jedi Master is revolted by this and feels physically diminished - even though this prisoner was a threat to the Republic as a whole

 

 

Executing defeated opponents is also clearly shown as a Dark Side action - a Fall-worthy one - in both film trilogies. Even if very bad opponents. Sith forcing Jedi to kill them to break them is a known issue

 

-

 

So would the Jedi just be stuck trying to keep a Sith captive under control and (since sadism is certainly out) comforable for the rest of said Sith's life?

[Rodyn]

Well, Jedi Shadows aren't shy about killing targets they judge as too dangerous to live, but they seem to be the exception.

 

It really bothers me that the Jedi seem to be so hesitant to carry out capital punishment, especially in TOR. Something like five SIth can be converted to the Jedi throughout the game, which is ludicrous for more reasons than one. Putting aside the fact that these Sith were raised in the Empire, and under the sway of the dark side, there's also the fact that the Jedi are basically saying, "Hey, we forgive the numerous war crimes you likely committed. Come join us and be our buddy, and we'll forget everything!"

[myrdinn]

Is it not more delicious to turn one's enemies to work for one's (or one's faction's) goals? To turn an enemy, to make them part of your fight, that is how to truly succeed.

Lightside or Darkside, turning one's foes to one's loyal lieutenants is a true win... after all, leaving them dead still gives them the honor of dying on their own terms in their own way (not to mention, a possible martyr).

 

Or what would they actually do if they captured a Sith? Sith don't tend to surrender but they can lose saber hands etc. You can't turn a Sith prisoner over to the Republic, generally (too dangerous). They don't tend to believe Sith are curable. Letting Sith go would just seem to ensure many others would die. Then there are Jedi NPCs in game that let Sith walk away rather than attack to stop them.

 

The Republic did seem to decide to imprison Sith they were *really* afraid of (and somehow captured) on Belsavis. This didn't go well. Also on Belsavis...

 

 

Sith Warriors can force a Jedi Master to execute a very dangerous prisoner. The Jedi Master is revolted by this and feels physically diminished - even though this prisoner was a threat to the Republic as a whole

 

 

Executing defeated opponents is also clearly shown as a Dark Side action - a Fall-worthy one - in both film trilogies. Even if very bad opponents. Sith forcing Jedi to kill them to break them is a known issue

 

-

 

So would the Jedi just be stuck trying to keep a Sith captive under control and (since sadism is certainly out) comforable for the rest of said Sith's life?

[BrianDavion]

Jedi are not judge jury and executioner, it's not their job. if they capture or arrest someone, they turn them over to the Republic to charge and try them. Jedi are keepers of the peace. soldiers.

 

 

ohh and the bit about the Jedi shadows, there's no evidance in SW canon that they're the Jedi assasin corps despite what some people's fanon likes to claim

[Diviciacus]

Well, Jedi Shadows aren't shy about killing targets they judge as too dangerous to live, but they seem to be the exception.

 

It really bothers me that the Jedi seem to be so hesitant to carry out capital punishment, especially in TOR. Something like five SIth can be converted to the Jedi throughout the game, which is ludicrous for more reasons than one. Putting aside the fact that these Sith were raised in the Empire, and under the sway of the dark side, there's also the fact that the Jedi are basically saying, "Hey, we forgive the numerous war crimes you likely committed. Come join us and be our buddy, and we'll forget everything!"

 

What should be more surprising is that the Jedi have somehow enough sway within the Republic that Sith or fallen Jedi who are defeated but not slain can just be shipped to Tython for rehab - and not captured by the Republic military for interrogation and execution.

 

I mean, the Knight in TOR was defeated by the Emperor himself! You'd think the Republic would want to pick the living **** out of that brain. Not even the Jedi seem to care. It makes no sense.

 

ohh and the bit about the Jedi shadows, there's no evidance in SW canon that they're the Jedi assasin corps despite what some people's fanon likes to claim

 

Right. There's a reason the Jedi Shadow tree is called "Infiltration." Qui-gon Jinn, Episode I Obi-wan Kenobi. That is what a Jedi shadow does. Infiltrate, gather information, get out. Not assassinate.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Diviciacus

[myrdinn]

Right. There's a reason the Jedi Shadow tree is called "Infiltration." Qui-gon Jinn, Episode I Obi-wan Kenobi. That is what a Jedi shadow does. Infiltrate, gather information, get out. Not assassinate.

 

Correct. But, even the Jedi aren't above taking advantage of a situation... that's the whole backstory for

 

Revan and KoTOR I

after all.

They very clearly brainwashed and used that character for their own ends... and admit it later on.

[Rodyn]

ohh and the bit about the Jedi shadows, there's no evidance in SW canon that they're the Jedi assasin corps despite what some people's fanon likes to claim

There's nothing to say they aren't, either. Being an assassin may not be their full job, but it can definitely be part of it if they deem an individual too great a threat, and Shadows tend to be fairly paranoid.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Rodyn

[BrianDavion]

There's nothing to say they aren't, either. Being an assassin may not be their full job, but it can definitely be part of it if they deem an individual too great a threat, and Shadows tend to be fairly paranoid.

 

your source for this?

[Nalathemaster]

your source for this?

 

Read 'The Jedi Path', It's an in-universe 'holobook' about the Jedi. Sentinels and Shadows are said to do things that other jedi find 'unpleasant', and killing Dark Siders fits in that category.

[BrianDavion]

Read 'The Jedi Path', It's an in-universe 'holobook' about the Jedi. Sentinels and Shadows are said to do things that other jedi find 'unpleasant', and killing Dark Siders fits in that category.

 

a vague statement meaning nothing. other jedi would find giving a jedi a sponge bath unpleasent.

 

 

more to a point the full text says they are spies and sabatours not assasins.

Edited July 30, 2015 by BrianDavion

[Rodyn]

your source for this?

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Shadow#Organization

 

"Due to their missions, Jedi Shadows were often noted for being loners with a black-and-white perception of the world around them. This could manifest itself as paranoia, wherein they saw signs of the dark side in everything—including their own comrades. As such, they were often deployed cautiously and only in times after a great conflict. Shadows did not hesitate in their duty and were willing to betray those that they considered evil, but they often practiced restraint as they recognized that their definition of such foes did not always match those of the Council. Some among their rank believed that more aggressive actions were needed in order to destroy the followers of the dark side."

[BrianDavion]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Shadow#Organization

 

"Due to their missions, Jedi Shadows were often noted for being loners with a black-and-white perception of the world around them. This could manifest itself as paranoia, wherein they saw signs of the dark side in everything—including their own comrades. As such, they were often deployed cautiously and only in times after a great conflict. Shadows did not hesitate in their duty and were willing to betray those that they considered evil, but they often practiced restraint as they recognized that their definition of such foes did not always match those of the Council. Some among their rank believed that more aggressive actions were needed in order to destroy the followers of the dark side."

 

you're making my point for me. none of this points to them being assasins. have they killed people? proably, but that's not their job. all these things you quote indicate is they're just spies.

Edited July 30, 2015 by BrianDavion

[Rodyn]

you're making my point for me. none of this points to them being assasins. have they killed people? proably, but that's not their job. all these things you quote indicate is they're just spies.

I never said they were just assassins, only that assassination was part of the job.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rodyn

[Spetulhu]

Seeing how the Republic keeps some very dangerous people in a secret prison on Belsavis one could get the idea that there is no death penalty in the Republic. An individual member world could perhaps have it for particularly heinous crimes but not the Republic itself.

 

And ofc, Jedi wouldn't call it death penalty. They'd call it "letting you join the Force" or something.

[SithKoriandr]

I'd say part of it is, even in a galactic empire, you're not going to be able to keep all rules enforced (just to big of an area) or the same as the planets themselves tend to have different rules.

 

Reps tend to refer to Jedi the same reason people in the Empire refer to Sith. They're generally much more powerful and dangerous individuals, the PCs being up there on the scale.

 

Yes, not every force user is going to be equal to Luke, Anakin, the PCs, big named NPCs, but they still tend to have an advantage over others, usually many others, and more so if they've had some training (some may never actually complete the training).

 

Even Sith training on Korriban, there is more than just a few surviving the trials, so it's not all cut throat on the level of the PCs trials.

 

As for Shadows, the NPC says it's a darker path in game, if you don't think that means doing some things that may not be considered the most Jedi of things, I would think that sounds like one's own head canon is trying to say otherwise.

[Jedi_riches]

Jedi are not judge jury and executioner, it's not their job. if they capture or arrest someone, they turn them over to the Republic to charge and try them. Jedi are keepers of the peace. soldiers.

 

Actually, "We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers" - Mace Windu - Attack of the Clones

 

Plus they do kill when there is no other choice:-

 

1) Mace Windu killed Jango Fett

2) Jedi Killing clones during order 66

3) Obiwan killed General Grievous (yes more cyborg than anything but still sentient)

4) Obiwan killed Darth Maul

 

These are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head from the prequel trilogy movies.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Jedi_riches

[Savria]

In times of war, there may not be such a choice. Jedi were the generals but if to defend the republic, taking lives may become necessary.

 

"Make a virtue out of Necessity," you make the best of a difficult or unsatisfactory situation.

[Mourkoth]

Or what would they actually do if they captured a Sith? Sith don't tend to surrender but they can lose saber hands etc. You can't turn a Sith prisoner over to the Republic, generally (too dangerous). They don't tend to believe Sith are curable. Letting Sith go would just seem to ensure many others would die. Then there are Jedi NPCs in game that let Sith walk away rather than attack to stop them.

 

The Republic did seem to decide to imprison Sith they were *really* afraid of (and somehow captured) on Belsavis. This didn't go well. Also on Belsavis...

 

 

Sith Warriors can force a Jedi Master to execute a very dangerous prisoner. The Jedi Master is revolted by this and feels physically diminished - even though this prisoner was a threat to the Republic as a whole

 

 

Executing defeated opponents is also clearly shown as a Dark Side action - a Fall-worthy one - in both film trilogies. Even if very bad opponents. Sith forcing Jedi to kill them to break them is a known issue

 

-

 

So would the Jedi just be stuck trying to keep a Sith captive under control and (since sadism is certainly out) comforable for the rest of said Sith's life?

 

I'm surprised that after a rather generous amount of time, I'm the only one to bring this up - but the Jedi do have methods through which they can handle Sith (and other unruly force-users if necessary). For the reasons listed above, the notion of keeping a force-user prisoner is often met with skepticism. You can stun them, gas them (sort of) and employ a multitude of measures to keep them incapacitated for a time, but it's almost a universal fact that their penchant for being able to move stuff with thought alone is just one of the many wrenches that a force-user can figuratively (and literally) force into the gears of a well-oiled security machine.

 

Fortunately, the Jedi have a fix. More specifically, the Jedi remnants in Kotor 2 have a fix that they even use against *spoilers hidden*, by using a known ability to sever an individual's connection with the force. It's cruel, because it has all sorts of side-effects that simply aren't good.....but it works, which is what matters in the end.

 

If you're not afraid of spoilers, or you want a more informative source than I, read the wookiepedia article!

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sever_Force

[DNGDangerous]

Jedi circumvent the problem of executions being dark side... By defending themselves, with lethal force.

 

This is cannon in the movies. Jedi do not amputate limbs of sith for the sole reason of avoiding capturing them. The trick is to deliver the fatal blow before the sith are able to surrender themselves into custody.

 

Sure, jedi ask their opponents to surrender, but they know their sith counter parts will always try to fight before conceeding. Aggressive negotiations generally always play out the same way when sith are involved.

 

Sith on the other hand are the ones that amputate limbs. While I am not exactly sure why, but there is many movie cannon referances that prove this statement as well.