ShawDou Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Hi, i found this interesting post on reddit from former game developer, how look from inside, completely changed his point of view on game developing. I suggest all of you who feels like know everything about development, and how you could do much better job then BW devs, to read it Link here Edited July 13, 2015 by ShawDou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cute posting, but it just shows the lack of professionalism at game development companies. I've worked in software development for many years, not in games, but doing business software. The nonsense that gets released in the game business wouldn't fly when doing vertical software development for an industry that pays a lot of money to licence your software. When a major new version comes out, it has to work from day one. People run their companies on these programs, failure is not an option. The recent release of Batman: Arkham Knight is a good example. That game was so broken they finally had to stop sales of it. Game development doesn't have to be this way, but people keep preordering games, buying season passes, even after multiple such botched releases. Despite the linked blog, it is totally possible to release polished software. It simply takes more time and costs more money. It requires a software company to have management that cares about the customer and their long term business, to set aside the resources required to do it right. This is not the current mindset in the game business, but it could happen if gamers stopped accepting such junk as finished product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmbuddah Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cute posting, but it just shows the lack of professionalism at game development companies. I've worked in software development for many years, not in games, but doing business software. The nonsense that gets released in the game business wouldn't fly when doing vertical software development for an industry that pays a lot of money to licence your software. When a major new version comes out, it has to work from day one. People run their companies on these programs, failure is not an option. The recent release of Batman: Arkham Knight is a good example. That game was so broken they finally had to stop sales of it. Game development doesn't have to be this way, but people keep preordering games, buying season passes, even after multiple such botched releases. Despite the linked blog, it is totally possible to release polished software. It simply takes more time and costs more money. It requires a software company to have management that cares about the customer and their long term business, to set aside the resources required to do it right. This is not the current mindset in the game business, but it could happen if gamers stopped accepting such junk as finished product. Bravo! Bravo! Encore! : round of applause : My thoughts -exactly- The gaming industry is the only industry that knows they can get away with releasing unfinished products and treating their customers like crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodur_Verenus Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Very interesting read, thanks for posting that. The testing requirements even for the most minor IT system changes at my work makes my head spin. Over 50% of a project's budget is dedicated to testing the change in some cases We all have things we want from this game (and this expac in particular) in an ideal world but resources are limited and I'm happy to cut the devs some slack if what they put together isnt exacly what I'd hoped for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenkistyle Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) and it's the consumers fault we ask for more bigger and better, faster than they can provide it. this is why we get half done games. that is what us the consumer begs for. +its all about that dollar for most developers so of course if they think they can make money now and fix it later they will. so overall a very screwed multi faceted subject imo Edited July 13, 2015 by zenkistyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The gaming industry is the only industry that knows they can get away with releasing unfinished products and treating their customers like crap. Game developers can't do it anymore. Do you remember what happened to PC version of newest Batman? It disappeared from stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerba Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I've worked in software development for many years, not in games, but doing business software. The nonsense that gets released in the game business wouldn't fly when doing vertical software development for an industry that pays a lot of money to licence your software. So true. I think the main difference is that in game development, most of the people working on the game are not developers but designers. You can see this whenever you listen to an interview with a "developer" or community manager; they completely rely on the tools they can work with and don't have much of an idea how programming works. It is just a consequence of the fact that budget is limited and that creating the worlds takes up most of the development, so they cannot invest too much into the development of the engine and the design tools, especially since nowadays players want realistic graphics more than fleshed-out game mechanics. Edited July 13, 2015 by Jerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Cute posting, but it just shows the lack of professionalism at game development companies. I've worked in software development for many years, not in games, but doing business software. The nonsense that gets released in the game business wouldn't fly when doing vertical software development for an industry that pays a lot of money to licence your software. When a major new version comes out, it has to work from day one. People run their companies on these programs, failure is not an option. That's true, but it's only part of the story as you know. Software for business applications are sold to a significantly smaller audience at a significantly larger cost. Games are expected to be anywhere from free to $60, use significant art and design resources that business software doesn't need to concern it with, and hit nearly arbitrary deadline targets based around the consumer cycle. It reminds me of the old saying, you can have cheap, quick or good. Pick 2. Business software is usually just very good. Doesn't even get you cheap or quick. Likewise game software can be any combination of the above depending mostly on how much current technology they are trying to use. Edited July 13, 2015 by Master-Nala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themanthatisi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Good find... This is the section (below) I have realized for awhile. Many developers to have pride but not only are they under pressure, they are also, many times, on the front lines for the blame... unfortunately. "The reason some of these games end up being ****** is usually because of investors, publishers, and MBAs. These people are not developers, and they view the development cycle as a business investment. They do not make decisions for the love of the community, they make decisions for their bottom line. Unfortunately, the larger a game budget needs to be, the more important people like investors and publishers become. By pushing things towards high-end graphics, the consumer is forcing non-developers into the process, and destroying their own games." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawDou Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I've worked in software development for many years, not in games, but doing business software. The nonsense that gets released in the game business wouldn't fly when doing vertical software development for an industry that pays a lot of money to licence your software. I work in same field as you: But in my opinion business software is many times easier than games. In business SW you can set walls and rules your SW follows and thats it. You know what to test. You know pretty much all scenarios that can (should be possible to) happen at each moment of process. In business SW only thing that can really gone bad is LOGIC. All you have to do is make right the PROCESS from A to B or C ... (maybe browser compatibility if you use web), that is all you have to care about. Games are completely different, there are so much more possibilities, there are so much more variables, HW specifications, drivers, screen resolutions, graphic details, people choices and so on. I also think that most of business SW is a lot smaller projects than for example SWTOR and any other AAA games. And i am sure you know the bigger project the harder it is to manage all of it. So if you dont have experience with projects of similar scale, all you can do is only guess, not state facts based on your non-expeciance Edited July 13, 2015 by ShawDou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorgrimLutgen Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Bravo! Bravo! Encore! : round of applause : My thoughts -exactly- The gaming industry is the only industry that knows they can get away with releasing unfinished products and treating their customers like crap. Could not agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawDou Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Bravo! Bravo! Encore! : round of applause : My thoughts -exactly- The gaming industry is the only industry that knows they can get away with releasing unfinished products and treating their customers like crap. i think this is very much good response: and it's the consumers fault we ask for more bigger and better, faster than they can provide it. this is why we get half done games. that is what us the consumer begs for. +its all about that dollar for most developers so of course if they think they can make money now and fix it later they will. so overall a very screwed multi faceted subject imo There are only few companies who dare to postpone their release date. And if they do huge rage come from most of players So we dont really give them much choice. BTW i think it is not developers but MANAGERS and INVESTORS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menofhorror Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Not everyone is a programming genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSeventhJedi Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 This is all well and good, but what do we know about the poster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) The gaming industry is the only industry that knows they can get away with releasing unfinished products and treating their customers like crap. This would be an apt point to highlight Microsoft and it's non-game software products. A more correct statement would be: consumer software products, be they OS, applications, or games, do not require (nor does pricing justify) mission critical levels of coding/testing/release. In fact, consumer feedback finds more bugs and issues then internal testing in consumer software IMO. Games are not cruise missiles, 911 tracking systems, or diplomatic security systems. note: I am not excusing bugs, only accepting the reality that when I buy a consumer product, particularly one that by definition will evolve over time, I don't expect perfection..... nor would I be willing to pay the extra cost that comes with perfection. Edited July 13, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cute posting, but it just shows the lack of professionalism at game development companies.No doubt lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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