Please Convert Annihilation / Watchman Healing Back to Health Based Healing

[babygotmoreback]

Hello All. I have done a lot of annihilation playing pre and post patch. At first, I thought that the new healing could be a good thing, but after much testing, it has proven to be inferior in many ways. First and foremost, this new system of healing is not reliable, this is especially true in ranked (group and solo). The abundance of ranged classes, kiting, and cleansing prevent dot spread from providing the survivability of the previous health % based healing. Also, the shorter duration of cauterize makes it more difficult to dot spread. While dot spread can be rewarding, I much prefer to have the reliable and burstier healing of health percentage healing. Additionally, since healing is dmg based it can now be reduced with mitigation and stun seems to be ever more the enemy of this spec since healing now requires a ramp up. Healing was definitely more bursty and reliable as a health percentage. Even in group ranked it is downside as you often want to keep targets stunned and have to limit your dot spread tremendously. Ideally, I think giving annihilation / watchman the 2% health percentage healing will put this spec in a really good spot. I just wanted to post this and get more player feedback on this matter.

[Aetrus]

The problem with Annihilation in group ranked has always been your own DoTs breaking mezzes, since forever, so hard swapping is 10x more difficult.

 

I think buffing the DoT heals to 20% from 15% would be a better fix than your suggestion though. 20% would still be less than the 1% of max HP you were healing for in most scenarios but you'd get the heals more often/reliably than before (relying solely on crits) so I think it'd make up for it. But yeah as it is now the 15% is too low, agreed.

[babygotmoreback]

The problem with Annihilation in group ranked has always been your own DoTs breaking mezzes, since forever, so hard swapping is 10x more difficult.

 

I think buffing the DoT heals to 20% from 15% would be a better fix than your suggestion though. 20% would still be less than the 1% of max HP you were healing for in most scenarios but you'd get the heals more often/reliably than before (relying solely on crits) so I think it'd make up for it. But yeah as it is now the 15% is too low, agreed.

 

I just disagree, although I won't complain if they give it a boost. Problem is with all the stun and being focus target since we are pretty much the easiest class to get to use trinket, I think the reliable and burstier heals is warranted.

[Aetrus]

I just disagree, although I won't complain if they give it a boost. Problem is with all the stun and being focus target since we are pretty much the easiest class to get to use trinket, I think the reliable and burstier heals is warranted.

I'm just trying to help you out. You've stated:

The abundance of ranged classes, kiting, and cleansing prevent dot spread from providing the survivability of the previous health % based healing. Also, the shorter duration of cauterize makes it more difficult to dot spread. While dot spread can be rewarding, I much prefer to have the reliable and burstier healing of health percentage healing.

But the thing is, the previous version wasn't more reliable at all. The talent changed which you're talking about - Hungering - was that bleeds which crit healed you for 1% of your max health. Now all bleeds heal you for 15% of the damage they deal. So I know you keep talking about getting CC'd and it being difficult to get your DoTs on the target, but you still had that issue before plus you had to have the DoT crit, so the healing was only ever guaranteed during Berserk. It's more reliable the way it is now, where all of your DoTs give you healing regardless of whether they crit or not. It's just that the 15% value is too low, especially when that amount gets reduced once DCDs by enemy players is factored in.

 

So my suggestion of 20% of damage dealt (which upon further review might've been too low and I think 25% is probably more fair) was for your benefit because I <3 you. ...That is, of course, unless you only want to be healed during Berserk. Which is odd, but I won't question your potential fetishes!

[DynamiCtagez]

They won't. They've already decided to homegnize classes as much as possible. That's why we got the same ****** kind of self healing that Hatred/Madness has.

That was the nail in the coffin for me. This spec is dead to me. They tried to copy everything Sorsc/Sins have: 3 DoTs, DoT-spread, same selfhealing. It's just ten times worse, as our DoT-spread is awful and the self-healing will never be as effective and fun as it used to be.

Watchman/Anni used to be a single target spec, with single target focused damage and self-healing. Now you have to spread DoTs to get some effective healing, but it's impossible to keep a constant DoT-spread up as our spread is horrible. And even if it weren't, the old self-healing concept was still a hundred times better and fun as you could decide when you wanted a small burst of healing.

[Aetrus]

And even if it weren't, the old self-healing concept was still a hundred times better and fun as you could decide when you wanted a small burst of healing.

I really...don't understand.

[DynamiCtagez]

I really...don't understand.

 

The old self-healing, prior to the first nerf would give you 3% (2% from Hungering and 1% from Berserk) of your hp per tick back once you activated Berserk. This equals 6x 3% = 18% of your health guaranteed.

Prior to 3.0 you also had Cauterize tick every second which made the healing come even quicker. If you'd use Frenzy and another Berserk you could heal almost 40% of your health. That was MASSIVE and MUCH MUCH better compared to the **** we have now.

If they'd reverse the old crit healing back to 2% instead of 1% like before the first nerf in 1.X it would be perfectly fine and fair.

When you used to press the Berserk button back in the day you would actually get a recognizable burst of healing. Now you don't get **** when you use Berserk. Plus it's a boring concept. What's not to understand?

Edited June 18, 2015 by DynamiCtagez

[Aetrus]

Because I didn't realize you were talking about pre-2.0, which was forever ago. That was nerfed for a reason - it was too much. It'd be even more ridiculous now that Undying is free. I figured we were comparing the 1% crit bleed heals, not the ultra old 2%.

[Skettitangles]

Sadly for Xeoh, he's stuck in a pre 3.0 time warp that has little relevance to the game in real time

[jauvtus]

The 2% healing on crits were unique, loved, worked on single target and enabled watchman/annihilation to survive. That's why we won't get it back. We are the class that always just get punished with each change (only mercs have it worse in pvp, at least they don't get further nerfs). GbtF/Undying has 3min CD now, along with Saber Ward, so I really don't understand why can't we get back 2% crit healing. Pls understand we don't need a weak, cheap hatred assa copy.

[babygotmoreback]

I'm just trying to help you out. You've stated:

 

But the thing is, the previous version wasn't more reliable at all. The talent changed which you're talking about - Hungering - was that bleeds which crit healed you for 1% of your max health. Now all bleeds heal you for 15% of the damage they deal. So I know you keep talking about getting CC'd and it being difficult to get your DoTs on the target, but you still had that issue before plus you had to have the DoT crit, so the healing was only ever guaranteed during Berserk. It's more reliable the way it is now, where all of your DoTs give you healing regardless of whether they crit or not. It's just that the 15% value is too low, especially when that amount gets reduced once DCDs by enemy players is factored in.

 

So my suggestion of 20% of damage dealt (which upon further review might've been too low and I think 25% is probably more fair) was for your benefit because I <3 you. ...That is, of course, unless you only want to be healed during Berserk. Which is odd, but I won't question your potential fetishes!

 

Previous was absolutely reliable. And Aetrus, come on man, are you really trying to tell me how a talent changed like I didn't understand? To be competitive for self healing now, I have to pretty much get my dots on at least 3 targets which as discussed, is not that easy. Previously I could have dots on 1 target and get the surge of healing I needed right away. Consider the typical scenario for a sent / mara. It means getting stunned and opened on, stunned again, and then maybe you can do a little something while your resolve is on its way down, and then get stunned again. Before, you could at least get dots off reliably on 1 target and get the burst of healing you needed to live. Now, you can hardly do this effectively and even if you do, the healing isn't as bursty so it's easier to kill you.

[Aetrus]

Previous was absolutely reliable. And Aetrus, come on man, are you really trying to tell me how a talent changed like I didn't understand?

I thought it was unlikely but the emphasis on being reliable threw me because...

To be competitive for self healing now, I have to pretty much get my dots on at least 3 targets which as discussed, is not that easy. Previously I could have dots on 1 target and get the surge of healing I needed right away. Consider the typical scenario for a sent / mara. It means getting stunned and opened on, stunned again, and then maybe you can do a little something while your resolve is on its way down, and then get stunned again. Before, you could at least get dots off reliably on 1 target and get the burst of healing you needed to live.

I don't get how you can call the previous iteration of Hungering reliable. If you put 1 DoT on the target and get no crits, you got zero healing. Now at least if you put 1 DoT on the target and don't crit you still get some healing, it's just that the value is too low - especially when defensive CDs drop that value further. The only way that the previous version of Hungering was reliable was during the Berserk window, which is kind of where I was going during my last post. IMO it would be more of a buff/QoL change to increase the current value on Hungering so you get heals the entire time your DoTs are on the target rather than making it absolutely necessary to have Berserk up for it to do anything at all. And like, if you're being CC'd and focused so much you might only be able to pop Berserk once in a yolo match and that's probably by popping Frenzy to do it. That sounds like it sucks to me but IDK. I like knowing that I have a constant heal rather than praying I'm critting enough to make my healing useful. Because I hate RNG. Because RNG hates me. Haha.

[babygotmoreback]

I thought it was unlikely but the emphasis on being reliable threw me because...

 

I don't get how you can call the previous iteration of Hungering reliable. If you put 1 DoT on the target and get no crits, you got zero healing. Now at least if you put 1 DoT on the target and don't crit you still get some healing, it's just that the value is too low - especially when defensive CDs drop that value further. The only way that the previous version of Hungering was reliable was during the Berserk window, which is kind of where I was going during my last post. IMO it would be more of a buff/QoL change to increase the current value on Hungering so you get heals the entire time your DoTs are on the target rather than making it absolutely necessary to have Berserk up for it to do anything at all. And like, if you're being CC'd and focused so much you might only be able to pop Berserk once in a yolo match and that's probably by popping Frenzy to do it. That sounds like it sucks to me but IDK. I like knowing that I have a constant heal rather than praying I'm critting enough to make my healing useful. Because I hate RNG. Because RNG hates me. Haha.

 

That;s just it. Berserk would give you a huge boost in healing and you could count on it. Berserk is up often too. Instead of getting a small amount of healing you could have dots on one person and when you got stunned, have solid healing if you had hit zen. My heals in ranked are definitely less since the change and it's easier to burst us down. You can ask several on the server, I was very hard to kill before (for a mara). Now we have build up to heals and it doesn't really work with build up + stun. If they increase it, of course it will help. Honestly sents in general could benefit from healing for all the trees. Like 15% on trans or something like that. Other classes (except slingers - I'm rooting for you too) have much more healing capability or stealth heal to full etc. A girl can dream right Aetrus.

Edited June 20, 2015 by babygotmoreback

[jauvtus]

I thought it was unlikely but the emphasis on being reliable threw me because...

 

I don't get how you can call the previous iteration of Hungering reliable. If you put 1 DoT on the target and get no crits, you got zero healing. Now at least if you put 1 DoT on the target and don't crit you still get some healing, it's just that the value is too low - especially when defensive CDs drop that value further. The only way that the previous version of Hungering was reliable was during the Berserk window, which is kind of where I was going during my last post. IMO it would be more of a buff/QoL change to increase the current value on Hungering so you get heals the entire time your DoTs are on the target rather than making it absolutely necessary to have Berserk up for it to do anything at all. And like, if you're being CC'd and focused so much you might only be able to pop Berserk once in a yolo match and that's probably by popping Frenzy to do it. That sounds like it sucks to me but IDK. I like knowing that I have a constant heal rather than praying I'm critting enough to make my healing useful. Because I hate RNG. Because RNG hates me. Haha.

 

Yeah, because dot crits in pvp are so rare If the new system is more reliable why does everyone parse significantly lower hps?

[Aetrus]

That;s just it. Berserk would give you a huge boost in healing and you could count on it. Berserk is up often too. Instead of getting a small amount of healing you could have dots on one person and when you got stunned, have solid healing if you had hit zen. My heals in ranked are definitely less since the change and it's easier to burst us down. You can ask several on the server, I was very hard to kill before (for a mara). Now we have build up to heals and it doesn't really work with build up + stun. If they increase it, of course it will help. Honestly sents in general could benefit from healing for all the trees. Like 15% on trans or something like that. Other classes (except slingers - I'm rooting for you too) have much more healing capability or stealth heal to full etc. A girl can dream right Aetrus.

 

Ahhh, alright, that makes sense. Still, without mathchecking, Xeoh's numbers on page 1 make 2% sound really OP (that's what, ~25% HP healing every Zen window?) Especially with the Blood Ward utility now. But I do like the thought of you needing to be interactive (pressing Berserk) in order to trigger your main sustain instead of getting a weaker version of that sustain passively. I'd be cool with reverting the Hungering change and tweaking numbers. Aaaand if you like slingers, I have suggestions for them, too.

 

Like I said before, I do agree with you that the healing for Annihilation is too low. But I think aside from that, Anni and Fury are almost perfectly balanced. I'm surprised you're not more sad about Combat. That spec is le squish, with zero innate utility.

[jauvtus]

Ahhh, alright, that makes sense. Still, without mathchecking, Xeoh's numbers on page 1 make 2% sound really OP (that's what, ~25% HP healing every Zen window?) Especially with the Blood Ward utility now. But I do like the thought of you needing to be interactive (pressing Berserk) in order to trigger your main sustain instead of getting a weaker version of that sustain passively. I'd be cool with reverting the Hungering change and tweaking numbers. Aaaand if you like slingers, I have suggestions for them, too.

 

Like I said before, I do agree with you that the healing for Annihilation is too low. But I think aside from that, Anni and Fury are almost perfectly balanced. I'm surprised you're not more sad about Combat. That spec is le squish, with zero innate utility.

 

I don't understand, 6 stacks of Zen=6 guaranteed crit=6*2=12% healing in a Zen window. Ofc I might be missing something, sry then. One of the reasons I prefer crit healing (besides uniqueness) is that sent always was (and should be imo) high risk high reward AC, the risk being RNG in our heals.

About Combat/Concentration: they never had self heals and it wasn't a problem before (also they can have Zealous Ward if they want to)

 

EDIT: Ok, I checked I missed the Zen healing part, so it's 18% per Zen window, with Valorous Call it can be 36%, it still would be perfectly balanced imho.

Edited June 20, 2015 by jauvtus

[Xertasian]

this is to Aetrus..dude you not getting it apparently..the spec now is trash..what they need to do is put back 2% self heal on crit..put rupture back to 12-15 seconds for dot duration...remove force rend all it does screw up your rotation..anni is fixed real simple..

 

see anni was made to be the best 1 vs 1 spec hands down..before 2.0 i could 3 vs 1 people and win..thats what we asking and with the lvl caps it is fair today..back then people didnt know how to counter anni maras and was getting wrecked..that what truly caused the nerfs..

 

Aetrus you probably haven't played a mara from the beginning of game..to people like that they wouldnt understand the point we is stressing on anni spec..still before 2.0 when anni was brutal a good concealment ops could beat them..they had a counter class..

[babygotmoreback]

Ahhh, alright, that makes sense. Still, without mathchecking, Xeoh's numbers on page 1 make 2% sound really OP (that's what, ~25% HP healing every Zen window?) Especially with the Blood Ward utility now. But I do like the thought of you needing to be interactive (pressing Berserk) in order to trigger your main sustain instead of getting a weaker version of that sustain passively. I'd be cool with reverting the Hungering change and tweaking numbers. Aaaand if you like slingers, I have suggestions for them, too.

 

Like I said before, I do agree with you that the healing for Annihilation is too low. But I think aside from that, Anni and Fury are almost perfectly balanced. I'm surprised you're not more sad about Combat. That spec is le squish, with zero innate utility.

 

I am absolutely frustrated with how devs have treated combat/carnage, but they have made it clear they feel it is overperforming.........I was trying to add feedback for mara overall and found anni to have potential. You know me, carnage is my jam. I hope it becomes more viable in solo again.