Darth Vader and Darth Tyranus vs Darth Nox and Emperor's Wrath

[Jedikillar]

The issue with saying that they didn't know these characters would exist is that they didn't care. The movie characters level in canon is higher than ours, so no matter when it was said, it overrides things said about our characters. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the jedi and sith don't have records of this era. By the prequel trilogy, the jedi know about Bane and the Rule of Two(though apparently not that the RoT sith are still around), which was intentionally tried to be kept secret. They have histories on the republic dating back even before this period, so even though the creators of the canon didn't know about our characters yet, lore wise it's quite likely that loremasters and historians would have, assuming our characters are not so insignificant that they aren't even mentioned in the history.

 

Yes, movie characters are more fleshed out. But that's the whole argument. Our characters and the enemies they fight aren't. We have no way of knowing if they could defeat enemies like Vader and Dooku did, because they have so far not fought them, at least not alone.

[PadsterPwns]

Why did you made list of feats only for the movie characters and not the game characters?

First the Wrath defeated countless jedi and a few of them masters and many knights when he was just a average sith many times without a break.

In chapter 2 he defeated even more jedi and machines made with a incredible powerful and potent energy source and small armies led be renown generals of the Galactic war.

In chapter 3 he survived a bomb, he killed countless Sith some of them lords and darth rank, experience bounty hunters, the emperor and his own master in a year. He went from apprentice to wrath in a year.

Nox everything I said above besides killing the emperor and becoming wrath.

Read about Thanaton and his feats and read about the emperor and his feats and read about Baras and his feats t see what opponents Nox and Wrath had.

 

I can't actually find a Baras respect thread, could you post a link? The only couple of feats I know Baras did was briefly match blades with Satele Shan (when he was a Darth and she was a knight), be powerful enough to trap the Entity and... that's all I can remember. The only other thing is that when the Wrath went up against the Emperor's voice, the Emperor wasn't fighting against the Wrath, it was Sel-Makor and while that is still very impressive I don't think its the same as facing the Emperor considering the Emperor probably would have just dominated him through TP.

 

Thanaton has some very impressive feats. Remember I'm not saying that the Wrath and Nox are weak, if it is coming across like that then I'm doing something wrong, all I am saying is that the characters they are up against have been up against likely more powerful opponents with feats that we can measure more easily as they also have accolades to back them up. Like I've said earlier, the Wrath and Nox are very powerful, likely on par with Darth Marr, but Dooku and Vader are outright stated as among the best swordsmen and force users ever and their feats back them up.

[ChazDoit]

Yes, movie characters are more fleshed out. But that's the whole argument. Our characters and the enemies they fight aren't. We have no way of knowing if they could defeat enemies like Vader and Dooku did, because they have so far not fought them, at least not alone.

 

It's the difficulty that comes from comparing Canon characters to Legend characters, especially Legend characters that are part of a very young franchise if we compare swtor to the movies, I mean... Vader was created in 1977 and Nox and Wrath in 2011. Also the abilities and powers of Nox and Wrath are very nebulous, there is no canon version of which lightsaber form they mastered, or what force power they favored in combat, that is left up to the player to experience through gameplay.

 

Maybe some day there will be novelizations of the swtor protagonists with a more detailed explanation of their powers, but I doubt it will happen because canon versions of them would piss of the players, make their choices feel invalidated, and it will definitively not happen while swtor is still running.

 

So we're in a situation that we have well defined characters vs nebulous chracters, I don't think the better fleshed out characters should win by default or simply because they are more popular, we know from the developers that the Wrath is supposed to be Vader's mirror and Nox is Sidious mirror, thematically and in the abilities they have, admittedly, Sidious in the movies is around 70-80 and Nox should still be in his early twenties (since other NPCs point out he's young) and that would explain why he had more time to become more powerful.

 

We have to take all these things into consideration if we want to make a fair comparison, without taking into account popularity or which character has more books written about him, swtor is fairly new, you'll never find these characters name-dropped on early movies or books because they simply didn't exist at the time, and now that swtor is legends canon I doubt we'll hear them being mentioned in any future series or movies either, but still Nox and Wrath achievements should put them on the top tier of their own era.

 

I still find it funny that it seems that someone putting out a good word for you counts more than your own achievements, I bet that if someone during Episode 7 were to say "oh yeah... Darth Nox, he kicked *** " then Nox would pass from not even making it to any Top 10, to suddenly being Top 3 or so, lol.

 

For me, fiction is fiction is fiction, kicking *** in a game should not be considered less than kicking *** on a movie, neither happened in reality, but if we're going to agree that both these pair of characters were to meet each other in an imaginary battlefield, then everything should be taken into account, not just a few things like "cutscenes yes, but powers no, these enemy counts but this other doesn't" etc.

Edited July 17, 2015 by ChazDoit

[adormitul]

I do not know if they more fleshed most movie characters have little development compared to Wrath or Nox.

[PadsterPwns]

Yes, movie characters are more fleshed out. But that's the whole argument. Our characters and the enemies they fight aren't. We have no way of knowing if they could defeat enemies like Vader and Dooku did, because they have so far not fought them, at least not alone.

 

Thank you! This is what I've been trying to show and why I think this match up is a bit... unsolvable as we have two characters who have decades of feats and accolades up against two playable characters who have impressive feats, but they also have the issue of gameplay feats, that being we don't know how 'canon' they are. Compare these 'gameplay' feats and cut scene feats to Dooku and Vader's wealth of accolades and feats and it becomes apparent that the main reason I'm arguing for Dooku and Vader is because they have better feats and accolades that are much easier to quantify and measure.

[PadsterPwns]

I still find it funny that it seems that someone putting out a good word for you counts more than your own achievements, I bet that if someone during Episode 7 were to say "oh yeah... Darth Nox, he kicked *** " then Nox would pass from not even making it to any Top 10, to suddenly being Top 3 or so, lol.

 

To be fair the only time I've provided quotes as evidence is when its from another highly reputable character or if its an out of universe quote like from an encyclopedia or source book which do hold merit.

 

Also just so you know, if I were doing a top 10 sith during SWTOR the Wrath and Nox would be interchangeable at 4 and 5 for me (Emperor first, Marr second or third and if Jadus hype is allowed him in second or third). If it became Sith of all time, they'd probably fall short in the teens.

Edited July 17, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[adormitul]

Thank you! This is what I've been trying to show and why I think this match up is a bit... unsolvable as we have two characters who have decades of feats and accolades up against two playable characters who have impressive feats, but they also have the issue of gameplay feats, that being we don't know how 'canon' they are. Compare these 'gameplay' feats and cut scene feats to Dooku and Vader's wealth of accolades and feats and it becomes apparent that the main reason I'm arguing for Dooku and Vader is because they have better feats and accolades that are much easier to quantify and measure.

 

I always wondered the mob enemies we fight in class stories of course are separated from the story and have no name just jedi knight or jedi apprentice or trooper or elite trooper they being a gameplay thing not related to the story or both?

Edited July 17, 2015 by adormitul

[Joluka]

Vader fought jedi all the time. He's been stated to take on multiple jedi battlemasters(9?) at a time and easily defeat them. Vader is generally speaking more powerful than episode 3 Anakin due to his experience, but also because of his suit. His suit was insulated against lightning(but he could not use the force to absorb it or use it himself, making him more vulnerable to it despite his suits resistance nonetheless), provided excellent armor, and increased his strength. He was even able to use ataru with it, showing that it was not a great hindrance on his agility or speed.

 

The issue we are having is not that I think Nox and Wrath are less powerful than Dooku or Vader, but that we have no way to know just how powerful they are. Dooku was able to stand up as a duelist to those I mentioned as being outright stated as the greatest duelists in star wars history, and had his fair share of battles with jedi, dark jedi, and non force users alike throughout the clone wars. Vader has all the experience of Anakin from the Clone Wars, combined with his experience and refined strategy and technique post Ep III. Experience wise, both movie characters and ours lived in times of war, and though the sith were not as numerous, I think it's very difficult to look at the many battles Vader and Dooku have and say they are less experienced fighting force users.

 

I mentioned earlier Vader defeating a large number of very respected jedi duelists all at once. He was also known to crush fighters with one hand, and of course is the progenitor of force choke and grip. Dooku was seen throwing around pillars that Yoda had to concentrate all his effort to redirect. Dooku defeated or stalemated every jedi he ever fought until the Chosen One, and by then he was already weary from fighting Anakin and Obi Wan together.

 

On the other hand, the wrath and Nox...they can throw crates in False Emperor. Wrath is hardly a chump at force choke, though we've hardly seen him use this much against force users. He can also force push force users and make adequate use of saber throw. We simply don't have any feats of his or Nox to show their telekinesis is anywhere near the level of Dooku or Vader. Wrath has defeated master duelists of his time, but rarely has he ever faced more than 1 at a time like Vader and Dooku both have, and the only real evidence we have of their strength has been...well the same issue that Jadus has. We're told they are powerful...but we have no background by which to judge how powerful they are against characters like Windu or Obi Wan, whom we do have evidence for.

 

I don't mean to imply Nox is a terrible duelist, but let's be real: We're comparing three of the greatest duelists of Star Wars history here. Nox simply isn't in that category as far as lightsaber skills go. That leaves The Heir's other powers, namely lightning and sorcery since we have no reason to believe Nox's tk is anything special(in fact, we have less evidence for Nox's skill in TK than the wrath's). So what do we have regarding Nox's lightning, specifically in comparison to Dooku's? We...don't. We mostly see Nox using it for intimidation or interrogation purposes as far as lore goes. We don't ever get to see Nox really killing anything with lightning.

 

Dooku on the other hand was able to, in 2v1 situations, incapacitate Anakin and Sora Bulq(A vaapad master who helped Windu create the form) with his lightning, before rather easily dispatching of their partners with his mastery of Makashi.

 

So...Dooku and Vader TK > Nox and Wrath.

Dooku lightning >= Nox

Dooku lightsaber >= Wrath > Nox

Vader lightsaber >Wrath > Nox

 

With the feats we have in game, there's simply not a single category I can conceive of Nox and Wrath being better in.

 

The one wildcard as I mentioned in my first post is sith sorcery. We have no idea what Nox can do(and potentially even the wrath. Bane was mostly a juggernaut of sorts, but he was quite proficient with lightning and had limited abilities in sorcery). Neither Vader nor Tyranus have any experience with it or with defending against it. The issue is, we haven't seen what Nox is capable of in this regard combat wise. Can Nox do something similar to Zannah's tendrils? Seems a bit out of Nox's range, but we simply don't know. Can Nox use Zannah's fear/insanity ability? Most likely, as evidenced by the sith assassin's use of it, but would it be effective against sith as powerful as Tyranus and Vader who aren't experienced with it? I don't know, and that's assuming that Nox actually can do it in the first place.

 

There are tendrils in the SoR Intro as Nox. She's probably the origin of the tendrils, granted I haven't read the Bane trilogy, so don't laugh at me if their origin was revealed in the Bane books.

[PadsterPwns]

I always wondered the mob enemies we fight in class stories of course are separated from the story and have no name just jedi knight or jedi apprentice or trooper or elite trooper they being a gameplay thing not related to the story or both?

 

To be honest I'm not sure and that's why its hard to decide on just how good the Wrath and Nox. I mean they probably are involved somehow but we don't know how powerful they are and the problem continues.

[PadsterPwns]

There are tendrils in the SoR Intro as Nox. She's probably the origin of the tendrils, granted I haven't read the Bane trilogy, so don't laugh at me if their origin was revealed in the Bane books.

 

Yeah that's before Bane but what did the tendrils do? Sorry I haven't seen it yet

 

EDIT: Actually I just watched it and that was a vision so I don't think they were caused by Nox. Still thanks for mentioning it

Edited July 17, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[ChazDoit]

I think we all agree that the swtor characters are very undefined when it comes to their abilities, but there are things that should be taken into account.

 

-The Vision and Idea the devs had for these characters (as I said previously, they've stated many times that the swtor characters were created to mirror the most popular archetypes from the movies)

 

-Their Personal Story (Since this is the canon for these characters this is what is most important, also their victories against named but also nameless enemies should be considered)

 

-Their Game Abilities and Powers (should give a frame of reference of their fighting style and the extent of their abilities)

 

-Planetary Quests (These can't really be assigned to any particular charater I'm afraid, but if anything it does show that these characters are veterans of the Galactic War that could have performed these feats)

 

-Story Focused Flashpoints (As far as I know the characters were part of the strike teams that participated in the most story focused Flashpoints, the same flashpoints that Bioware is giving a SOLO mode soon)

 

I still disagree with the notion that if these characters don't have books written about them, then they're weaker. As gamers we should value video games as much as any other medium.

Edited July 17, 2015 by ChazDoit

[PadsterPwns]

I think we all agree that the swtor characters are very undefined when it comes to their abilities, but there are things that should be taken into account.

 

-The Vision and Idea the devs had for these characters (as I said previously, they've stated many times that the swtor characters were created to mirror the most popular archetypes from the movies)

 

-Their Personal Story (Since this is the canon for these characters this is what is most important, also their victories against named but also nameless enemies should be considered)

 

-Their Game Abilities and Powers (should give a frame of reference of their fighting style and the extent of their abilities)

 

-Planetary Quests (These can't really be assigned to any particular charater I'm afraid, but if anything it does show that these characters are veterans of the Galactic War that could have performed these feats)

 

-Story Focused Flashpoints (As far as I know the characters were part of the strike teams that participated in the most story focused Flashpoints, the same flashpoints that Bioware is giving a SOLO mode soon)

 

I still disagree with the notion that if these characters don't have books written about them, then they're weaker. As gamers we should value video games as much as any other medium.

 

The only one I have an issue with is 1 but that's just making sure they are only mirrors in the regard that one class is mainly melee and the other force oriented, not that they're equally skilled or powerful as their mirrors. Also, the notion about books = not weaker isn't the case, it's just it adds more feats making it easier to argue for them. If it has come across like I'm saying otherwise I will try to phrase my arguments better as that is certainly not what I'm saying and I partially agree with you as it is a shame they don't have as much concrete evidence considering how cool they are.

Edited July 17, 2015 by PadsterPwns

[ChazDoit]

The only one I have an issue with is 1 but that's just making sure they are only mirrors in the regard that one class is mainly melee and the other force oriented, not that they're equally skilled or powerful as their mirrors.

 

This is to be taken with some considerations, The Inquisitor is supposed to be somewhat of a mirror a young Darth Sidious who from early age have been researching secrets and artifacts, and it's not a mirror of an elder Sidious who was way more powerful and ruled the galaxy in the original trilogy.

 

But I do believe that if the developers tell you that playing the warrior is about living your own Darth Vader fantasy, then being as powerful as Vader is part of that fantasy. Or at least being more powerful than your enemies in the Old Republic in a similar way that Vader was more powerful than the people he faced in his time.

Edited July 17, 2015 by ChazDoit

[PadsterPwns]

This is to be taken with some considerations, The Inquisitor is supposed to be somewhat of a mirror a young Darth Sidious who from early age have been researching secrets and artifacts, and it's not a mirror of an elder Sidious who was way more powerful and ruled the galaxy in the original trilogy.

 

But I do believe that if the developers tell you that playing the warrior is about living your own Darth Vader fantasy, then being as powerful as Vader is part of that fantasy. Or at least being more powerful than your enemies in the Old Republic in a similar way that Vader was more powerful than the people he faced in his time.

 

Yeah I can agree on this, except I don't think the young Inquisitor was as fast as young Sidious. So yeah they're probably similar in that they're way better than they're peers in the same age group.

[muchano]

About the tendrills we can see them at the begining of RotHC

 

So i think given time Nox can easilly perform them

Edited July 18, 2015 by muchano

[Selenial]

Again, the PT Council is a peacetime circle-you know. None of those Jedi have ever fought a Sith, period. Let alone Sith who have lots of experience fighting Jedi (and each other) and/or using sorcery. Why would they possibly have better lightsaber skills than other Jedi Masters who had to be good at it because otherwise they would be dead? They can sit around and talk about how good they are but they don't even know what they're comparing themselves to. Sidious - who is legitimately in the tier of any of the Big Bad Sith - utterly smokes them, as does Vader.

 

In terms of the Rule of Two somehow providing more knowledge and instruction and experience than the Sith Empire...that's not how academic disciplines (or martial arts...) work. Two guys playing telephone - with varying levels of commitment to actually passing on everything - are not going to compare to the Sith Academy or the Spheres under the Dark Council. It is not possible to recreate thousands of years worth of study in a few decades. It's not even possible to read it.

 

Sidious being the most powerful ever is fair, he is clearly exceptional and was well-trained besides. Someone like Maul? Maul had very little real combat experience against Jedi (none if you go by the movies where the Jedi haven't heard of him at all) and wasn't very old when he "died" on Naboo.

 

Lucas waxed poetic a little too much over the Clone Wars/Galactic Empire era. Then again the Jedi way is as dysfunctional as it is because he had only a weeboo grasp of martial arts.

 

"That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst."

- Labyrinth of Evil

 

The Idea that the movie era were weaker because it's peace time is incorrect and completely baseless. The Jedi thrive in peace time.

 

The reason Movie Era characters are generally more powerful is both because of the Jedi's power progression, and the Banite line of Sith. For example, Darth Angral was killed by a strike team of Jedi. No "'more powerful" Sith replaced him. Skotia was killed by plotting and scheming done by two Sith, only possible with two Sith, and a less powerful force wielder took his title and place. For the Bane era, every successful Sith was more powerful, and when you start with two force workers (Bane and Zannah) who are rightfully more powerful than Nox and the Wrath, you'll get some insanely powerful Sith.

 

But I'll make a post that should finally end this thread later

[ChazDoit]

"That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst."

- Labyrinth of Evil

 

The Idea that the movie era were weaker because it's peace time is incorrect and completely baseless. The Jedi thrive in peace time.

 

The reason Movie Era characters are generally more powerful is both because of the Jedi's power progression, and the Banite line of Sith. For example, Darth Angral was killed by a strike team of Jedi. No "'more powerful" Sith replaced him. Skotia was killed by plotting and scheming done by two Sith, only possible with two Sith, and a less powerful force wielder took his title and place. For the Bane era, every successful Sith was more powerful, and when you start with two force workers (Bane and Zannah) who are rightfully more powerful than Nox and the Wrath, you'll get some insanely powerful Sith.

 

But I'll make a post that should finally end this thread later

 

While I understand that this is supposed to be canon story, it logically makes no sense. competition breeds excellence and two sith that isolate themselves, hide from the Jedi and the wider galaxy for thousands of years are better duelists than Sith who crossed blades with the Jedi like every other day? Sparring with your teacher is never going to be better training than fighting for your life against your mortal enemies.

 

And while RoT Sith are supposed to try to kill each other at some point... it's not something that happens right away, I mean, Bane doesn't crush Zannah as soon as he meets her, right? In the case of Sidious, he learned everything from another Sith Lord, and when he thought he had learned enough, he killed him in his sleep, so we don't even know if Sidious would have won in head to head fight.

 

As far as I know, Bane instituted the RoT because the Sith of his time sucked balls, and he held Sith from ancient times in higher regard, such as Revan. While what Bane did made sense for his time, I don't think instituting the RoT would have made sense during the time the Sith Empire was in full swing, the Empire is basically RoT on a galactic scale, the Sith cooperated greatly to succesfuly build a powerful civilization based on their ideals while also competing with each other, I think it's a bigger achievement than the small secretive order of RoT.

 

 

For the Bane era, every successful Sith was more powerful, and when you start with two force workers (Bane and Zannah) who are rightfully more powerful than Nox and the Wrath, you'll get some insanely powerful Sith.

 

What the heck!?

Edited July 18, 2015 by ChazDoit

[PadsterPwns]

"That had been the case with the Jedi Order. For two hundred years before the coming of Darth Sidious the power of the dark side had been gaining strength, and yet the Jedi had made only minimal efforts to thwart it. The Sith were pleased by the fact that the Jedi, too, had been allowed to grow so powerful, because, in the end, their sense of entitlement would blind them to what was occurring in their midst."

- Labyrinth of Evil

 

The Idea that the movie era were weaker because it's peace time is incorrect and completely baseless. The Jedi thrive in peace time.

 

The reason Movie Era characters are generally more powerful is both because of the Jedi's power progression, and the Banite line of Sith. For example, Darth Angral was killed by a strike team of Jedi. No "'more powerful" Sith replaced him. Skotia was killed by plotting and scheming done by two Sith, only possible with two Sith, and a less powerful force wielder took his title and place. For the Bane era, every successful Sith was more powerful, and when you start with two force workers (Bane and Zannah) who are rightfully more powerful than Nox and the Wrath, you'll get some insanely powerful Sith.

 

But I'll make a post that should finally end this thread later

 

Thank you this is what I've been trying to say. Please post it soon, this needs to end in a team 1 victory, I'm too tired to post anything else.

[Selenial]

That awkward moment when your IPhone autocorrects Force Wielders to Force Workers

 

Anyway, I'll start up on that post now.

[cs_zoltan]

That awkward moment when your IPhone autocorrects Force Wielders to Force Workers

 

Anyway, I'll start up on that post now.

 

Can't wait.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/scarjo_popcorn.gif

[cs_zoltan]

the Empire is basically RoT on a galactic scale, the Sith cooperated greatly to succesfuly build a powerful civilization based on their ideals while also competing with each other, I think it's a bigger achievement than the small secretive order of RoT.

 

ORLY? https://youtu.be/8digZp_hipc?t=3m8s

[ReiKai]

ORLY? https://youtu.be/8digZp_hipc?t=3m8s

 

Let me put this another way. Neither one was really more successful in eliminating the Jedi. The only difference between them is that the Sith Empire had more Sith. More, as in the tens of thousands range. Nvm that Sidious had ruined the RoT from the getgo, having multiple apprentices prepped and ready as well as forming ranks of Darkside Acolytes to assist him with his rituals. All of which occurring before he became Chancellor of the Republic.

 

Also, the claim earlier than RoT sith had access to greater knowledge is, again, a lie. Bane himself said he couldn't feel any Dark Side power in Korriban anymore from when he was training there, and states all of the knowledge gathered by Kaan's brotherhood in the Korriban Library was nothing next to what he learned from Revan's Holocron in just two weeks, which inspired the creation of the Rule of Two. And that was only knowledge Revan gleamed while as Darth Revan during the time he fought against the Republic after being corrupted by Vitiate. Of which he was only a Sith for about 2yrs.

 

This is telling of just how much had been lost in that 3900yr gap. A large volume of knowledge and lore had been lost not just due to the wars occurring between these two points, but also by sects of Jedi hunting down these relics and knowledge, studying them to determine threat level, then destroying or sealing them so they can't be used anymore. We saw much of this in the KotoR comic series in which a large treasure trove of Sith Artifacts had been destroyed in a large explosion. Many of them taken and discovered after the Great Hyperspace War and dating back much earlier.

 

Suffice to say that what the RoT Sith discovered is just fragments and many things had to be re-learned because they could no longer be taught. Also, it still stands to reason that not everything learned by the Master is taught to the Student in the Rule of Two. This was made abundantly clear with Bane and Zannah as there were things he learned that he wouldn't share with her, and vice-versa.

 

And while people may still try and buy into Sidious being the "most powerful sith", it's irrelevant. He never reached that status until more than 10yrs after his original death. So those arguing that Sid training the likes of Dooku and Vader make them automatically better is just a delusion. I had already said it a while back. Even granting Dooku/Vader having superior melee skill doesn't give a win as Wrath/Nox are displaying a greater variety and skill in the Force that Dooku/Vader just don't possess.

[ChazDoit]

ORLY? https://youtu.be/8digZp_hipc?t=3m8s

 

Ugh... the Empire already

from that crisis, and thanks to aid of powerfuls Sith, such as Wrath and Nox that rise to the top to put the Empire back in the race. Also it's the nature of the dark side to turn on itself, the same reason the RoT ultimately failed, with the death of Palpatine.

[cs_zoltan]

Also, the claim earlier than RoT sith had access to greater knowledge is, again, a lie.

 

It is stated that Sidious knew every dark side power ever, so no it's not...

[ChazDoit]

Nvm that Sidious had ruined the RoT from the getgo, having multiple apprentices prepped and ready as well as forming ranks of Darkside Acolytes to assist him with his rituals. All of which occurring before he became Chancellor of the Republic.

 

I think this is more of a fault of writers establishing something like RoT and then other writers not sticking to it, because it will bring a bigger viewership to many Sith villains for the Jedi to fight against, Maul, Ventress, Opress, The Inquisitor from Rebels, etc.

 

Even granting Dooku/Vader having superior melee skill doesn't give a win as Wrath/Nox are displaying a greater variety and skill in the Force that Dooku/Vader just don't possess.

 

Yes, but those favoring movie characters discount the powers that we learn in the game, even when we agree we're basing ourselves in Legends continuity.

Edited July 18, 2015 by ChazDoit