Stat Recommendation for Assault Spec/IO

[Alassa]

I'm wondering what is the overall opinion for Assault Specialist/IO gear is. I've seen several posts that talk about 198 Min-Max, but I'm looking for an opinion for 192 min-max. I have the 6 piece already. But I'm curious as to what my Crit/Surge/Alacrity should be.

 

Thanks.

[RagnarokViking]

I am by no means an expert, but I have had great success with:

550 crit

333 surge

222 alacrity

My best parse is 4.7k and I pull between 3.8 and 4.4 depending on the fight.

 

It should be noted that I saw fascinate from zorz on the fleet and basically ripped off his gear, piece for piece, mod for mod in optimized 192s.

 

Cheers, hope that helps.

[cs_zoltan]

With accuracy Augments.

 

"But you give up 520Aim for that!"

 

Yes. But Aim is an additive DPS Increase. Alacrity is multiplicative.

 

We have reached a gear level where the benefits of alacrity are better than aim or power, because we have so much bonus damage from aim, power, mainhand/offhand, and the base damage of the abilities

 

Anyway, while I haven't tested it on my Mando yet (cause he's only level 57), the model situation was set up the exact same way as the gear optimization code used in my PT/VG guides.

 

And I've received feedback of up to a 6% increase in DPS by using lots more alacrity.

 

 

 

Fair enough. I've modified it so its:

 

DPS = (DPS * 6) / ((84/Alacrity) + (6/(Alacrity + 0.1)))

 

instead of

 

DPS = DPS / (15 / Alacrity)

 

(DPS being the 15 second rotation's damage)

 

Gotta remember that recharge cells is every '90' seconds, but reduced by alacrity.

 

End result:

 

192s (Oh yeah, I went there):

 

4650.8078 DPS

353 Crit

222 Surge

333 Alacrity

 

198s:

 

5040.3078 DPS

397 Crit

240 Surge

720 Alacrity

 

Both of these assume post-3.1.2-nerf

 

/5char

[Gyronamics]

That quote is horrible.

[TACeMossie]

That quote is horrible.

 

Exactly. You only needed the bottom half of that quote

[Alassa]

Thanks everyone for their replies so far! Looking forward to trying it out and seeing what I can do.

[cs_zoltan]

That quote is horrible.

 

Show us your dps gear simulator then.

[Gyronamics]

Show us your dps gear simulator then.

 

To prove what to who?

 

Stat fiddling is extremely trivial compared to getting the raw maximum damage stats. I endorse no particular version of stat stacking and like to follow a balanced approach.

 

Tell me, how do you think stacking alacrity works out in burst scenarios. If you can't get an extra attack in you've done worse than someone who had higher base damage or surge. For example, the core @ revan.

 

A simulator will give you the answer you asked it for.

 

And I didn't like the 192 vs 198 stat bit at the end of that quote. Nothing logical could be read from such a comparison. Hence me not liking it being quoted as an example.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

To prove what to who?

For starters the 192 BiS gear for the OP maybe? :confused:

Stat fiddling is extremely trivial compared to getting the raw maximum damage stats. I endorse no particular version of stat stacking and like to follow a balanced approach.

Not sure if serious. I find it interesting that every dps, healer, and tank spec in 1.x, 2.x, and 3.x had and used theoretical BiS gear, but suddenly you think there is no such thing for IO.

Tell me, how do you think stacking alacrity works out in burst scenarios. If you can't get an extra attack in you've done worse than someone who had higher base damage or surge. For example, the core @ revan.

I could tell you what I think, but I let someone else have the honor:

Additionally, the argument has been raised that it's not really practical to get enough alacrity to make a difference on instant cast timings. This argument is based on the fallacy of perception. Sure, you're not fitting in an "extra" GCD in any short time window, but alacrity isn't about fitting in extra GCDs, it's just about doing everything faster. Think about it. This argument is analogous to claiming that power is useless because it would require an impractical amount to double the value of Underworld Medicine. It's not about doubling up; it's about small incremental gains and optimizing those gains.

 

Alacrity is one of the best stats in the game right now, and the only reason it isn't used more heavily by DPS is because they are constrained to spend a minimum of 6 item slots on accuracy, leaving them so little stat room that surge (with its excellent low-pool rate of returns) plays the dominate role. Healers have no such constraints, and they get additional benefits out of alacrity (i.e. responsiveness and control). There is absolutely no reason to under-stat on alacrity.

(Not to mention that someone who asked for 192 BiS hardly cares about Revan HM core)

A simulator will give you the answer you asked it for.

 

And I didn't like the 192 vs 198 stat bit at the end of that quote. Nothing logical could be read from such a comparison. Hence me not liking it being quoted as an example.

Unless you have better it doesn't matter whether you like it or not. The beauty of theory crafting is that it's a fact, even if you disagree. It could very well be bugged, that's why I asked if you have better. If not I'm gona quote that every time someone ask for IO BiS and not some particular player's guessing.

 

I usually respect your opinions, but this out of nowhere, baseless hating on theory crafted BiS gear is irrational.

Edited June 1, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Gyronamics]

You did not answer my scenario at all.

 

HM Revan @ Core is broken into many periods of burst with significant interruption. It is not dummy whacking and none of the damage on previous floors is of relevance to the real challenge which is the core.

 

So, being able to actually fit in extra attacks or not is a real factor if you really want to be BiS for that scenario, the hardest scenario in the game.

 

A simulator will give you the answer you asked for. So what scenario was it given?

 

 

 

 

As for an answer for the OP

 

@ 192 gear

Accuracy to 100/110

Split the rest between surge and alacrity

Reflex augments

 

@ 198 gear

Use 3 accuracy augments to replace an accuracy piece and gain a slot for surge/alacrity, leave the rest as Reflex.

Again split between surge and alacrity, 5 pieces so toss a coin what you'd like to favour.

 

Crit is something you will have vast amounts of due to the way loot was given stats. Ignore this as long as you are increasing your overall damage stats even into 198 gear.

 

I have a preference for low crit ~400, however my best dummy bashing parses have been done with over 1200 crit.

 

 

That's my recommendation for any scenario.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

You did not answer my scenario at all.

 

I did. You just don't understand what I'm saying. You don't have to fit in and extra gcd to make alacrity useful. x% alacrity is x% (actually even more because of the buff windows) more dps whether we are talking about 2000 gcds or 4.

Alacrity improves burst just like it improves sustained. And unlike any other stat in the game it even improves target swapping.

 

so toss a coin what you'd like to favour.

I bet that's better than theory crafted BiS

Edited June 1, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Gyronamics]

You believe a scripted fight which you understand as a dps calculator is giving you a perfect answer.

 

I do not believe you are familiar with the scenario I gave you which is why you do not understand it.

 

You get windows of opportunity to do damage. A handful of GCD, one more than that and you die.

 

No amount of alacrity will increase the number of GCD you will put into those damage windows, however all the stats put into alacrity will reduce the strength of the attacks you get off.

 

This is a scenario which says alacrity stacking is not BiS and it is the most challenging fight you can do right now.

 

Any fight with gated damage windows allowing you to do nothing before and after that burst window and too few GCD to leverage an entire extra attack is to the detriment of alacrity stacking.

 

You should now see that the scripted fight behind the dps calculator is not calculating all scenarios.

 

 

The dps calculator is true for the scripted fight it calculated the numbers for.

 

 

I don't advocate gearing for Nefra, but neither does it make sense to gear obsessively for the core on Revan. Hence the balanced approach.

[cs_zoltan]

It is like you are deaf (or blind, given the written nature of our conversations). YOU DO NOT NEED TO FIT IN AN EXTRA GCD TO FEEL THE EFFECT OF ALACRITY. Edited June 1, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Gyronamics]

While telling me that BiS gear is important you insist that that alacrity is worth it over the other stats in the situation when it can't compress in more attacks.

 

Because that's a chunk of logic out the window right there along with damage potential.

 

 

You have a few seconds to do as much damage as possible.

 

Now take a break or get thrown off a tower.

 

Repeat until the boss dies.

 

 

It's not an imaginary fight.

 

Calphayus NiM had something similar which demanded burst damage with downtime between, still a relevant example despite being previous tier.

 

Any time you have a fixed number of GCD to do as much damage as possible you lose out by dropping stats to stack alacrity. Alacrity is for the long fight, without the long fight all you have is weaker attacks and slightly reduced cooldowns.

 

 

Try to compose yourself.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[TACeMossie]

While telling me that BiS gear is important you insist that that alacrity is worth it over the other stats in the situation when it can't compress in more attacks.

 

Because that's a chunk of logic out the window right there along with damage potential.

 

 

You have a few seconds to do as much damage as possible.

 

Now take a break or get thrown off a tower.

 

Repeat until the boss dies.

 

 

It's not an imaginary fight.

 

Calphayus NiM had something similar which demanded burst damage with downtime between, still a relevant example despite being previous tier.

 

Any time you have a fixed number of GCD to do as much damage as possible you lose out by dropping stats to stack alacrity. Alacrity is for the long fight, without the long fight all you have is weaker attacks and slightly reduced cooldowns.

 

 

Try to compose yourself.

 

Now lets look at the other benefit of alacrity. More resource regen during downtime.

While you can't damage the boss during that downtime, you can spam med shot on yourself to build up supercharge stacks, as well as naturally regenerating your heat. That extra alacrity has a decent chance over the course of the fight to allow you to use extra Charged Burst/Power Shots during the burn period that not having alacrity wouldn't let you do, as you would run out of energy/overheat without the extra alacrity.

 

Thats something very important to remember, and you seem to be forgetting this gyro

[Gyronamics]

Not forgotten, it's not a unique ability unlocked by stacking alacrity.

 

And it sounds like you're suggesting that every GCD is being filled for the entire fight and through that you gain the long fight advantage again by eventually getting in more GCD or a smidgeon of resources more.

 

That is unrealistic. You Med Shot no matter what stats you have and since the difference in timing between lots and less alacrity is minute, you don't pull a spare GCD out of thin air between damage windows unless it's not a spare GCD at all, you're Med Shotting when actually it's time to damage again.

 

And all the time you lose out on the stat damage you didn't take.

 

The damage windows don't change, you still have X time for damage and X time for med shotting and its too short to cram anything more in.

 

I'll say it again, you are GCD limited in this scenario, alacrity stacking is not BiS for burst + downtime.

 

There is BiS for a dummy and there is BiS for a totally different fight. Is it so hard to believe that worshipping alacrity is not the only path.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

Because that's a chunk of logic out the window right there along with damage potential.

You wanna talk about logic? How about I told you 3 times already that you don't need to fit in an extra gcd for alacrity to be effective. Alacrity nets you more dps even in 1 gcd, not just in an arbitrary long fight you seem to think. And you keep ignoring it without giving a reason or proof.

Do you want to downgrade this discussion into kindergarten levels where I say "Yes it does" and you say "No it doesn't"? Because that's where we headed now.

 

I'll be the adult and make the first move (actually second, this time you might not ignore me), and try to explain why you are wrong:

 

Have you ever parsed with alacrity? I presume you did. Now, when you were parsing did you notice the following:

You had x dps, then suddenly and extra attack fit in! And now you are doing x+y dps, the dps keeps dropping until you get another extra gcd!

No, I don't think you did, because that's not how it works.

 

Here's another example:

You do 22500 in 5 gcd without alacrity. That's 3k dps.

Now you get 10% free alacrity, that means 5 gcd takes 6.81sec not 7.5. So now you do 22500 / 6.81 = 3300 dps.

Let's go even lower, 4500 damage in 1 gcd, 3k dps. Then 10% alacrity makes 1.5sec gcd into 1.36. 4500 / 1.36 = 3300 dps.

 

As you can see you get more dps even in 1 gcd, where it is impossible to fit in any more gcds, obviously.

For clarity's sake: the cores on Revan, if you are doing x amount of damage but faster, then obviously the core dies faster. With my above example if the cores had 22500 health and you were the only dps you would kill it in 6.81 second not 7.5.

 

Now of course there is no such thing as free alacrity from gear, so you wouldn't be doing 3.3k dps with my example and you wouldn't have exactly x amount of damage only faster on the cores. But now that we know that alacrity increases dps even within 1 gcd then we also know that there's a clear, specific line where an exact amount of alacrity will yield better dps than surge (or mainstat and power in case of augments).

Just like with any other stat there's an exact theoritical balance between alacrity and surge that has the best dps return. You don't take crit with the (false) impression in mind that any extra crit will only worth it if it yields an extra critted attack withing 5 gcd. Or you don't say that power only worth it if within 5 gcd the amount of damage you gained from it makes up a whole 6th attack. Well neither should you look at alacrity the same way.

 

Case closed, if you still can't see it then I'm done banging my head against the wall. You are welcome to understat on alacrity, but I'm gona tell every Merc/Mando player looking for BiS gear that you are wrong.

Edited June 2, 2015 by cs_zoltan

[Gyronamics]

Nothing you have said is new to me. Nothing.

 

TACeMossie managed to string together a coherent answer which seems to demonstrate a grip of what I've been saying.

 

I'm going to ask you if you have experienced fighting the core or if you are speculating and thus not really knowing what I mean.

 

In the meantime I'm going to spend a few hours doing diagrams.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

Nothing you have said is new to me. Nothing.

That's even worse

 

I'm going to ask you if you have experienced fighting the core or if you are speculating and thus not really knowing what I mean.

 

I didn't, but I don't have to because it's obvious. I don't have to walk on the moon to know there is no air there.

[Gyronamics]

Nevertheless I seem to be turning this piece this way and that and it's still not fitting your mind so in some cases experience is relevant to understanding.

 

1 credit says I could talk to someone who's been in the fight, suggest they drop alacrity for surge to hit harder in the limited GCD they have between interruptions and they'd understand.

 

 

You need to be standing within melee range of the core to do damage.

 

1) (Aberrations) 4 purple circles spawn around the rim of the room in semi-random positions every 40 seconds and explode 3 seconds apart. If your character is not turned to face them when they explode you are thrown off the tower

 

2) Push mechanic, every 30 seconds a push is generated from the core, throwing you outwards, if you are melee range you stay within the room, if you're out of melee range you are thrown off the tower

 

3) Pull mechanic, every 30 seconds, (15 seconds after a push) the core pulls you inwards, if you are in melee range you'll be pulled into the core and killed

 

And if you don't know what the core level is like... basically a doughnut platform... which you can't see across very well because of the giant core in the middle... http://s8.postimg.org/400ijl53p/tmp.jpg

 

You cheese either the push or the pull using Hydraulic Overrides and you let the other one throw you.

You stop doing damage for every Aberration explosion to face your character to the correct Aberration.

 

3 seconds between Aberrations allows a cast and an instant then a short period to make sure you're facing the right Aberration before it explodes. 4x those so about 10-11s out of every 40 is GCD limited no matter what alacrity you have.

 

Every 30s, the push or pull you didn't cheese comes round to force you out of melee range.

 

 

So, with everything you need to know to beat the core, where do you see the advantage in piling up the alacrity.

 

You can't get ahead on GCD through alacrity because of enforced interruptions which cancel out any GCD gain you made over lower alacrity.

 

But you can choose to hit harder in the restricted number of GCD you can do with damage stats and surge.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

I watched 3 different Revan HM video and there's plenty of time for alacrity to take effect. And even beyond that alacrity makes your dot ticks faster too, so even if you don't do anything you gain something from it.

[Gyronamics]

Plenty of time?

 

I'm giving you a transcript of realistic fight mechanics: http://s16.postimg.org/nokw6zz05/tmp3.png

 

Shows the time between something that forces downtime and potential GCD available for given alacrity levels.

 

Hydraulic Overrides are being used on the pull and therefore the pull is not being counted as a disruptive factor.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

As long as you are so focused on extra gcds you will never realise how wrong you are.

 

How about the lower cooldowns?

How about the dots ticking faster?

How about the higher relic uptimes?

How about the 3x19 seconds of uninterrupted dps uptime?

How about all the instants that IO has which makes the Push all but irrelevant?

[Gyronamics]

I've improved the transcript.

 

Look at the number of GCD it's possible to fit into each time slot and how it hardly changes because of all the forced breaks.

 

Compare to the ideal maximum GCD you get on a dps calculator.

 

 

Alacrity speeds up many things but when it's hitting less per hit and not actually getting more attacks in it's a dps loss.

 

Everything else you mention does not make up for the loss of damage when you are being GCD capped.

 

The middle alacrity value is mine by the way.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Alassa]

http://parsely.io/parser/view/37582/1

 

My Crit is 368

Alac is 231

Surge: 240

Acc 110.21

 

What am I doing wrong? What can I do better?