How powerful would Vader have become?

[videox]

If he had not been disfigured by the lava / Obi Wan? I remember hearing that Anakin was supposed to be like, the end all be all of force users. So this has me curious. Would he have become more powerful than Palpatine if given the chance?

 

Also, how would you rank Vaders power compared to that of ancient sith? Say against someone like Marr, Malgus, or Bane.

[Wolfninjajedi]

1. Yes

 

2. He's above all of them mentioned.

 

Also as of now, in the new canon he's stronger than he ever was as Anakin. So this whole suit thing being a hindrance doesn't matter anymore.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[videox]

Whats the new canon? Admittedly i really don't know a lot about the guy. Most of my knowledge of Vader has come from the prequels and the original three movies lol.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Whats the new canon? Admittedly i really don't know a lot about the guy. Most of my knowledge of Vader has come from the prequels and the original three movies lol.

 

As per new canon, Vader is far better than Anakin in power and right now feats.

 

Legends canon, Vader was still a powerhouse Force User but was more or less equal with his former self barring speed and raw power, though he had the edges in durability and saber skill if only by as being equal.

[Nickious]

It was probably old canon and irrevelant now but I remember Palpatine mentioning something of the nature that Vader had the same potential power as his undismembered former self. What handicapped his force ability was mental, not physical aliments.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It was probably old canon and irrevelant now but I remember Palpatine mentioning something of the nature that Vader had the same potential power as his undismembered former self. What handicapped his force ability was mental, not physical aliments.

 

Yeah, but this was more to Darth Plagueis' theory I can't find the actual quote of Sidious stating such though, so probably doesn't exist. Even still the theory by Plagueis is sound in that cybernetics didn't limit ones Force potential.

 

Though considering Vader had a ton of emotional issues with himself, what he did and so on, it's very likely that was the cause.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[Ghisallo]

As per new canon, Vader is far better than Anakin in power and right now feats.

 

Legends canon, Vader was still a powerhouse Force User but was more or less equal with his former self barring speed and raw power, though he had the edges in durability and saber skill if only by as being equal.

 

 

I think this is a bit of a misinterpretation. Don't forget in the current Cannon we are dealing with a Vader how much older? The potential of the "organic" Anakin being > than cyborg Vader I think is still valid. Thing is we are looking at a person I would still call a "kid" when he was last ever truly Anakin because e are in essence dealing with an older (no not immensely so), and much more experienced Vader vs the Anakin that Obi-Wan beats.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think this is a bit of a misinterpretation. Don't forget in the current Cannon we are dealing with a Vader how much older? The potential of the "organic" Anakin being > than cyborg Vader I think is still valid. Thing is we are looking at a person I would still call a "kid" when he was last ever truly Anakin because e are in essence dealing with an older (no not immensely so), and much more experienced Vader vs the Anakin that Obi-Wan beats.

 

Right, but it's clearly noted that his suit isn't limited his ability and has in fact made him stronger than he previously once was. Does this mean he's stronger than his full potential? Perhaps not, but he is stronger than what he once was before.

[CaulderBenson]

Yeah, but this was more to Darth Plagueis' theory I can't find the actual quote of Sidious stating such though, so probably doesn't exist.

 

 

"Vader's legs and arms were artificial, and he would never be able to summon force lightning or leap about like the Jedi had been fond of doing. His darkside training was just beginning. But Sith power resided not in the flesh but in the will (emphasis the author's)...Vader's only real weaknesses were pyschological rather than physical, and for Vader to overcome them he would need to be driven deeper into himself, to confront all his choices and disappointments."

 

-Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader pg 135 hardcover edition.

 

It's a non-canon Luceno story now, but Luceno did work in a reference to it in his new canon Tarkin novel.

 

Incidentally the new Lords of the Sith novel has Vader and Palpatine doing some cool stuff in it too. I picked it up the day it came out and read it in a few hours. It has nothing new in terms of Vader's force training which was disappointing, but it's nice to have a new canon Vader and Sidious story.

Edited May 29, 2015 by CaulderBenson

[Sadishist]

Read the new book "Lords of the Sith" and it shows that Vader's dismemberment made him more attuned with the Force Edited May 30, 2015 by Sadishist

[BrianDavion]

Read the new book "Lords of the Sith" and it shows that Vader's dismemberment made him more attuned with the Force

 

I've only JUST started reading it.. HOWEVER I have reached the passage that talks about it and IMHO you're interpreting it wrong.

 

First of all, you have to keep in mind that this passage is a "third person point of view" it's us getting into vader's head. secondly it speaks of PRACTICALITIES instead of theoreticals. vader's suffering gave him a focus for his rage, his hate etc. that he could channel. thus even if his maximum potential was lower he likely found it easier to REACH this potential (is the dark side more powerful master?" "no, it's quicker, more seductive" so vader may have been more powerful in practice then he was as anakin skywalker, but he would plateau much lower.

[Ershiin]

I'm pretty sure one's physical condition has no real effect on one's ability to obtain mastery of the Force.

Rather the psychological side effects of his changed condition would be what made a difference, if any.

 

I think the real question should be, how powerful would he have become if he hadnt fallen to the dark side in the first place?

If he had been able to improve without the jedi restraining him, his hormones distracting him, or Palpatine corrupting him... How powerful would he have become then?

[Sadishist]

I think the real question should be, how powerful would he have become if he hadnt fallen to the dark side in the first place?

If he had been able to improve without the jedi restraining him, his hormones distracting him, or Palpatine corrupting him... How powerful would he have become then?

 

Not sure what you mean... how powerful would he become without Force training? Not very powerful.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Sadishist

[Callaron]

Not sure what you mean... how powerful would he become without Force training? Not very powerful.

 

Where did you get the without Force training?

 

The person you quoted was asking how powerful would he have become if he had remained a Jedi, and stayed true to those teachings. (I think! )

 

I imagine he would've lived up to his true potential then. But it was never meant to be in the first place, prophecy and all that y'know.

 

Edit: I see what you mean now after re-reading the other post. I'm not sure if they're asking what if the Jedi had never been in his life, or whether it's more along the lines of "What if they let him be with Padme and such?"

Edited June 1, 2015 by Callaron

[Ershiin]

Where did you get the without Force training?

 

The person you quoted was asking how powerful would he have become if he had remained a Jedi, and stayed true to those teachings. (I think! )

 

I imagine he would've lived up to his true potential then. But it was never meant to be in the first place, prophecy and all that y'know.

 

Edit: I see what you mean now after re-reading the other post. I'm not sure if they're asking what if the Jedi had never been in his life, or whether it's more along the lines of "What if they let him be with Padme and such?"

 

I meant more in the sense of what he accuses them of. Holding back his progress for whatever reason (i believe he accuses them of being jealous while its probably because they dont trust him to handle his abilities properly/responsibly.. which as it turned out, they ended up being right about) instead of letting him advance at his own pace.

Basically if his life as a jedi hadnt happened in the chaotic period that it did and he had just been trained like every other jedi in the thousand years of peace before the movies instead.

 

tl:dr I meant if they had trained him properly.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Ershiin

[Sadishist]

Well you have to take the prophecy into account. Many of it is tied to destiny due to the Force. Edited June 2, 2015 by Sadishist

[BrianDavion]

I meant more in the sense of what he accuses them of. Holding back his progress for whatever reason (i believe he accuses them of being jealous while its probably because they dont trust him to handle his abilities properly/responsibly.. which as it turned out, they ended up being right about) instead of letting him advance at his own pace.

Basically if his life as a jedi hadnt happened in the chaotic period that it did and he had just been trained like every other jedi in the thousand years of peace before the movies instead.

 

tl:dr I meant if they had trained him properly.

 

wow did you really miss the SUBTEXT of that? *sighs* it's times like this I miss shakespearian asides. curse modern theatre for assuming audiances are capable of picking up subtext and subtly.

 

Anakins complaints of being held back where groundless. he was an exceptionally talented force user yes.but he lacked maturity. the jedi are a monastic order etc. Simply being powerful, despite what Palpatine poured into his ear, isn;t eneugh

[Henge_Wolf]

I think the part about Vader being unable to use force lightning should become canon, if for no other reason than we never see him use it. The general idea that it would've fried his implants (like when palpatine killed him) makes perfect sense. Edited June 2, 2015 by Henge_Wolf

[Toweleeeie]

I love you guys!

[Ershiin]

wow did you really miss the SUBTEXT of that? *sighs* it's times like this I miss shakespearian asides. curse modern theatre for assuming audiances are capable of picking up subtext and subtly.

 

Anakins complaints of being held back where groundless. he was an exceptionally talented force user yes.but he lacked maturity. the jedi are a monastic order etc. Simply being powerful, despite what Palpatine poured into his ear, isn;t eneugh

 

Uh.. I'm not sure what it is you think i've missed?

Are you saying that the war and the sith didnt affect their ability to provide proper supervision over his training?

That they're not even partly responsible for his lack of maturity?

 

While pointing fingers at them as it being entirely their fault would be wrong, I dont think its fair either to wave off the responsibility of the people who took him in that he ended up the way he did.

I mean, they saw him as a risk before even taking him in in the first place.. Not only that, but as a potential part of a prophecy that they werent entirely sure what meant.

Cant say they didnt have any way or reason to be careful with the guy.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Ershiin