Overpowered healings killing pvp

[Ruhun]

DPS are bad. All of them. Even people who are extremely skilled on their sorc healer become bad, when they play one of their DPS alts. This tells us that healers are all fine and DPS all need to l2p.

 

The main issue is the lack of matchmaking stacking healers on one side and giving none to the other.

Premades and their FOTM comps just makes this worse.

 

If you, as a dps, cannot take down or at least make a lone sorc start to panic and run then you suck at dps.

 

Also dps that see a bright target over the healers head then proceed to attack everything else, as if that target means stay away.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ruhun

[pjaogg]

The main issue is the lack of matchmaking stacking healers on one side and giving none to the other.

Premades and their FOTM comps just makes this worse.

 

If you, as a dps, cannot take down or at least make a lone sorc start to panic and run then you suck at dps.

 

Also dps that see a bright target over the healers head then proceed to attack everything else, as if that target means stay away.

 

Very True! I can make Sorcs run or becoming panicked with my Assault Specialist Commando, killing them with this spec is another matter... lol

 

Doable in some circumstances... (not much)

[Ruhun]

Very True! I can make Sorcs run or becoming panicked with my Assault Specialist Commando, killing them with this spec is another matter... lol

 

Doable in some circumstances... (not much)

 

There are certain Sorcs on my server that I can't take down no matter how hard I try, but there's like 2/3 of them.

 

I tunneled one so hard in one match that she just complained in general chat and let me kill her, as if that would make me stop.

[pjaogg]

There are certain Sorcs on my server that I can't take down no matter how hard I try, but there's like 2/3 of them.

 

I tunneled one so hard in one match that she just complained in general chat and let me kill her, as if that would make me stop.

 

Sorcerers bad they are! Taking them down we want!

Edited January 28, 2016 by pjaogg

[ForceWelder]

REMOVE SORC/SAGE BUBBLE will solve half your problem. Sorcs/Sages have no need for bubble. it was given due to lack of mobility now they have mobility remove bubble. Dam near impossible to kill sorc healers if melee with all stuns snares roots that sorcs/sages get and when you come close to taking them out bubble, full heal wash rinse repeat

 

this issue with bubble is that they now made this class gods are defending nodes. All it takes is one bubble sorc or sage and that one person can now defend a now for 10 - 15 seconds regardless of how many players the opposing team throws at you.

 

Get near death, bubble, heal up, and break their node taking attempt. By the time you bring them down the other team has had more than sufficient time to respond to the node capture attempt.

 

No ability should grant 100% immunity to everything. There should always be some way to counter any skill .... regardless of how slim the chance. The bubble should give a huge damage resist, but if it gives full damage immunity, then players should have an option to use CC on the player to keep them from healing up. Giving them a complete free pass causes a huge imbalance in PVP.

[ForceWelder]

If a team has three healers (at least two being sage / sorcs) then the other team might as well bail from the match. I don't care how coordinate they are, there is just no winning since you won't be able to out dps the hps being generated by three combined healers. Add in a tank with guard and some taunts and it is a complete waste of time to even try.

 

And that is the problem with PVP. There is no limitation in class assignment. You could potentially end up in a game with 8 healers which leads to a stalemate of epic proportions.

 

There either needs to be diminished returns on stack healing to prevent overhealing, or you need to limit the number of healers that can be in a match. IMO, no team should have more than two. And even with just two, the opposing team still has a heck of an upward fight on their hands.

[pjaogg]

If a team has three healers (at least two being sage / sorcs) then the other team might as well bail from the match. I don't care how coordinate they are, there is just no winning since you won't be able to out dps the hps being generated by three combined healers. Add in a tank with guard and some taunts and it is a complete waste of time to even try.

 

And that is the problem with PVP. There is no limitation in class assignment. You could potentially end up in a game with 8 healers which leads to a stalemate of epic proportions.

 

There either needs to be diminished returns on stack healing to prevent overhealing, or you need to limit the number of healers that can be in a match. IMO, no team should have more than two. And even with just two, the opposing team still has a heck of an upward fight on their hands.

 

Yeah... It's an unfortunate true... I just don't agree with the bailing out sugestion. Not bailing out helps you to learn more about how they play. You may loose, but at least for me, winning isn't everything while knowledge is.

Edited January 28, 2016 by pjaogg

[ForceWelder]

Yeah... It's an unfortunate true... I just don't agree with the bailing out sugestion. Not bailing out helps you to learn more about how they play. You may loose, but at least for me, winning isn't everything while knowledge is.

 

What's to learn?

 

Other than having three healers (with two being sorcs or sages) makes the opposing team unkillable.

 

Even if your team gets close to bursting one of the sorc healers down, they just bubble and heal back up to full. Thanks to their own healing and that of their fellow team mates.

 

The only healer without a focus breaker is the merc / mandos and on POT5 they are a rare breed in reg warzones. If you face three healers the majority of them will be sorcs.

 

Three healers can literally hold off an entire opposing team if they are together. And that is without guard and taunts coming into the mix.

 

I suspect this is one of the reasons why 8 v 8 ranked no longer exists. It didn't take too many matches for the devs to see how skewed the results are with teams that ran heavy healer.

 

You want to win in 8 v 8 currently? Setup a premade with 3 sorc healers, 2 tanks, and three random burst dps of your choice. They are either going to be completely unstoppable or you will run into a stalemate because you face a team equally as defined.

[Cabroncete]

I play as sage healer more than 2 years in PvP and...

 

Always the same, cry, cry and more cry.

 

If i can't kill a healer, please BW nerf heal, if i can't kill one class, please BW nerf this...

 

I can kite 3 or 4 DPS easy, but only if this DPS are Noobs, in 2 vs 1 if DPS noobs, i can win this combat, dificult but i can win.

 

1 good DPS can kill me, need time, but they can kill me. 2 good Dps can kill me easy, where is the problem?

 

Use Class guides and practice, but don't cry about healers are invincible, probably , the problem is an opponenet better than, DPS low, low gear, don't use Stuns or cut in the apropiate momment.

 

The problem isn't in Sage/Sorc heal, problem is in Oper/merc now are worst healers, the Operative need more istant heals and the Merc needs more movility.

 

 

The people says please nerf healers i say something, try a healer in PvP vs experimented DPS players, in normal WZ always receive focus and die fast or i can't heal other players. Play at least 10 WZ and later write the experience....

 

PD: Sorry for my english.

[Ruhun]

What's to learn?

 

Other than having three healers (with two being sorcs or sages) makes the opposing team unkillable.

.

 

Having three healers is great and all but on node heavy matches you still have a chance If you have a few good stealth players.

 

If the match is a 100% loss, then I just use it as an opportunity to dish out as much dps as possible to get better at that instead. You might as well.

 

 

The problem isn't in Sage/Sorc heal, problem is in Oper/merc now are worst healers, the Operative need more istant heals and the Merc needs more movility.

 

 

.

The problem is poor matchmaking.

 

A Pug shouldn't end up with three Sorc/Sage healers and three tanks.

 

In that case just dummy parse, match is over since they can have one of each on the nodes and the others can phasewalk in needed to support.

 

The entire team could be hitting one of those sages and it wouldn't make a difference. The most they would do is kill a tank or a dps.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ruhun

[ForceWelder]

I play as sage healer more than 2 years in PvP and...

 

Always the same, cry, cry and more cry.

 

If i can't kill a healer, please BW nerf heal, if i can't kill one class, please BW nerf this...

 

I can kite 3 or 4 DPS easy, but only if this DPS are Noobs, in 2 vs 1 if DPS noobs, i can win this combat, dificult but i can win.

 

1 good DPS can kill me, need time, but they can kill me. 2 good Dps can kill me easy, where is the problem?

 

Use Class guides and practice, but don't cry about healers are invincible, probably , the problem is an opponenet better than, DPS low, low gear, don't use Stuns or cut in the apropiate momment.

 

The problem isn't in Sage/Sorc heal, problem is in Oper/merc now are worst healers, the Operative need more istant heals and the Merc needs more movility.

 

 

The people says please nerf healers i say something, try a healer in PvP vs experimented DPS players, in normal WZ always receive focus and die fast or i can't heal other players. Play at least 10 WZ and later write the experience....

 

PD: Sorry for my english.

 

You are missing the point entirely.

 

The issue isn't with a solo healer vs a solo dps. Hell, without support, a solo healer is dead in 10 seconds or less unless that healer uses their focus break when I throw my merc or mando in their face.

 

The problem is with multiple healers on the same team. Do you not understand that? All the defenders fail to counter that argument. It is all "learn to play" or "two competent dps can take me down". Sure, two crappy dps can take you down if you not getting heals from two other healers plus getting guard and taunts thrown your way as well.

 

Two sorc healers with their damn immunity bubbles are hard to kill. Throw in a competent tank or any third healer and the team is all but unstoppable.

[Avicii]

I suspect this is one of the reasons why 8 v 8 ranked no longer exists. It didn't take too many matches for the devs to see how skewed the results are with teams that ran heavy healer.

.

 

8v8 being removed, was because on most servers 1-4 teams were good and 1 or 2 was dominate the newer teams or teams not as good got smashed and went back to premading in Regs they didnt want to get better to challenge the better teams of course there were some groups that did but it was a small population.

 

In addition the Dev's said they were concerned about splitting queues between Arenas and R8s so they dropped R8s. The issue would've been at least helped if the Devs releases solo queue R8s as they stated at the Guild Summit was the goal for 1.2 till they took a dump on everyone the night before 1.2, but that's here nor there.

[pjaogg]

What's to learn?

 

Other than having three healers (with two being sorcs or sages) makes the opposing team unkillable.

 

Even if your team gets close to bursting one of the sorc healers down, they just bubble and heal back up to full. Thanks to their own healing and that of their fellow team mates.

 

The only healer without a focus breaker is the merc / mandos and on POT5 they are a rare breed in reg warzones. If you face three healers the majority of them will be sorcs.

 

Three healers can literally hold off an entire opposing team if they are together. And that is without guard and taunts coming into the mix.

 

I suspect this is one of the reasons why 8 v 8 ranked no longer exists. It didn't take too many matches for the devs to see how skewed the results are with teams that ran heavy healer.

 

You want to win in 8 v 8 currently? Setup a premade with 3 sorc healers, 2 tanks, and three random burst dps of your choice. They are either going to be completely unstoppable or you will run into a stalemate because you face a team equally as defined.

 

What's to learn?... ... ... While you're playing look at buff and debuff tray of your targets, learn what they're doing and when or how they do it... Learn how your procs occur, how you can counter or not your opponents... And this is just a tip of the iceberg...

 

Your bail advice doesn't help players that are still learning stuff, but if you're one of those players that knows everything there is to know... Congratulations! Good for you!

 

Bailing out just because you are sure you can't win, it's a... ... weird thought. I'm one of those players that think there's always stuff to learn...

Edited January 28, 2016 by pjaogg

[lethanil]

I'm thinking about stopping regular end game pvp alltogether because of unkillable teams.

 

And before you give me that "you're a bad dps" argument, I easily top the DPS charts with around 1.5-2 mil damage (Vecer) if my team has a healer. (Else everybody gets instakilled anyway) AND 0 to maybe 2 kils tops when faced with 3 sorc healers on the other team.

 

The problem with 2 many healers is first of all they can heal each other, second off all everybody is attacking a different one. And last of all Sorcs have way 2 many "focusbreakers", they can speed away, teleport 45 meters from current location and have a ridicilousy overpowered bubble ability. Only really bad sorc can be killed when teamed up with others.

 

Operatives can stealth away and run away, but not much else. Hard to apprehand, but once you've got them pinned down they are dead. Which is the right balance for a healer I say.

 

I'll probably go pvp with my under lvl 65 toons till season 7 drops, sigh........

[chosonman]

I'm thinking about stopping regular end game pvp alltogether because of unkillable teams.

 

And before you give me that "you're a bad dps" argument, I easily top the DPS charts with around 1.5-2 mil damage (Vecer) if my team has a healer. (Else everybody gets instakilled anyway) AND 0 to maybe 2 kils tops when faced with 3 sorc healers on the other team.

 

The problem with 2 many healers is first of all they can heal each other, second off all everybody is attacking a different one. And last of all Sorcs have way 2 many "focusbreakers", they can speed away, teleport 45 meters from current location and have a ridicilousy overpowered bubble ability. Only really bad sorc can be killed when teamed up with others.

 

Operatives can stealth away and run away, but not much else. Hard to apprehand, but once you've got them pinned down they are dead. Which is the right balance for a healer I say.

 

I'll probably go pvp with my under lvl 65 toons till season 7 drops, sigh........

 

Yep same here. Tops dps can solo kill a healer, but bring 2 or more with tanks then just bail.

[Ruhun]

I'm thinking about stopping regular end game pvp alltogether because of unkillable teams.

 

And before you give me that "you're a bad dps" argument, I easily top the DPS charts with around 1.5-2 mil damage (Vecer) if my team has a healer. (Else everybody gets instakilled anyway) AND 0 to maybe 2 kils tops when faced with 3 sorc healers on the other team.

 

The problem with 2 many healers is first of all they can heal each other, second off all everybody is attacking a different one. And last of all Sorcs have way 2 many "focusbreakers", they can speed away, teleport 45 meters from current location and have a ridicilousy overpowered bubble ability. Only really bad sorc can be killed when teamed up with others.

 

Operatives can stealth away and run away, but not much else. Hard to apprehand, but once you've got them pinned down they are dead. Which is the right balance for a healer I say.

 

I'll probably go pvp with my under lvl 65 toons till season 7 drops, sigh........

 

I don't think S7 will change much, and with the new KotH map Sorcs and Jugs will be even more prevalent.

[ReinhartRussian]

1 Healer is not a problem. However 2 healers + tank which happened basically all the time. 7 out of 10 warzones i faced double Sorc Healing. That is a huge problem. Also healers can push out over 5k HPs. Only a few DPS can match that.

Yes DPS can pressure a healer but if there are other DPS peeling or a tank 2 SORC healing becomes a problem.

 

Nerf sorc healing its too strong right now. Probably best way is remove talent that gives them +10% INC healing. And increase PvP healing debuff by 10%

[Ruhun]

1 Healer is not a problem. However 2 healers + tank which happened basically all the time. 7 out of 10 warzones i faced double Sorc Healing. That is a huge problem. Also healers can push out over 5k HPs. Only a few DPS can match that.

Yes DPS can pressure a healer but if there are other DPS peeling or a tank 2 SORC healing becomes a problem.

 

Nerf sorc healing its too strong right now. Probably best way is remove talent that gives them +10% INC healing. And increase PvP healing debuff by 10%

 

They need a nerf in terms of resource management not overall healing ability.

A dps can shut down a single sorc, if not outright kill it.

 

But, healing as a sorc is super forgiving and they have a few abilities that reset the fight.

So if its a good sorc you have to "kill" the bastard about 3 - 4 times before he goes down.

 

If they have 2 or 3 sorcs then forget about it, dummy parsing time.

[krayos]

So people are screaming for the Nerf Bat against Sorc heals, grab one from the corner and start swinging boyo. Having played a Sorc healer just a little bit, i have the answer for you, maybe you have used it once or twice in your PVP Career, its a little used ability thats probably not even on your Bars or hotkeyed in. yes thats correct, you probably dont have it on your bars as i never see them used against me, INTERUPTS, Interrupts are your best friend against Sorc healers, USE THEM, then maybe you'll start getting somewhere and you can throw around the EPEEN enlarger [ACHIEVEMENT: YOU KILLED A SORC HEALER]

[Maullan]

What really kills pvp is all of the scrubs who are leveling up or playing brand new juggs/guardians for the OP spec. Frankly, most of them still suck and can't do anything in a warzone even with practically being invincible and doing high damage.

[ForceWelder]

So people are screaming for the Nerf Bat against Sorc heals, grab one from the corner and start swinging boyo. Having played a Sorc healer just a little bit, i have the answer for you, maybe you have used it once or twice in your PVP Career, its a little used ability thats probably not even on your Bars or hotkeyed in. yes thats correct, you probably dont have it on your bars as i never see them used against me, INTERUPTS, Interrupts are your best friend against Sorc healers, USE THEM, then maybe you'll start getting somewhere and you can throw around the EPEEN enlarger [ACHIEVEMENT: YOU KILLED A SORC HEALER]

 

Humm ...

 

Take this scenario. You are in a warzone. The opposing team has two healers (statistically they will be sorcs or sages). You and another player go after one of them hard. With two healers, you both struggle to take even one of them down, but you are making progress and the targeted healer's health is going down.

 

You decide it is time to finish the sorc off, so you hit it with an interrupt and you blast it with you strongest attack.

 

And absolutely nothing happens.

 

Why? Because in that split second when the healer realized his healing was interrupted, that healer bubbled. And you now either switch targets which gives that healer a reprieve, or you stand there doing nothing waiting for the bubble to pop.

 

Interrupts work great in a one to one fight. Problem is, difficult matches don't consist with just one healer. And difficult matches also consist of multiple healers on the same team who all have an ability to have complete immunity to all CC and damage.

[chosonman]

Relax with your lengthy explainations, anyone who is still screaming l2p at this point it's brain dead.

[Ruhun]

Relax with your lengthy explainations, anyone who is still screaming l2p at this point it's brain dead.

 

Sorcs are OP, but at the same time a lot of players don't even break 500K in lengthy Sorc parsing matches.

It's just something to keep in mind.

[chosonman]

Sorcs are OP, but at the same time a lot of players don't even break 500K in lengthy Sorc parsing matches.

It's just something to keep in mind.

 

Enter a 4v4 match, your team all dps other team 2-dps 1 tank 1 heals. All equally skilled. The match is already decided before it even starts. Conclusion, bail dont waste your time.

[Ruhun]

Enter a 4v4 match, your team all dps other team 2-dps 1 tank 1 heals. All equally skilled. The match is already decided before it even starts. Conclusion, bail dont waste your time.

 

But I've won matches like that, with actual good dps players.

 

If in round 1 I'm getting 250 - 300k but the rest of my team barely gets past 80k then it's a loss.

These people don't follow instructions, they don't focus, use DCDs, nothing.

 

Next round their dps focuses me, because I'm an actual threat, then take their sweet time with the rest of my team.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ruhun