Healers....Top KEK

[Ashes_Arizona]

Well I'm going to quit arguing about it and prove/disprove it for myself.

 

Its not like I can't level and gear a sage for prime EXP bolster in about half a day.

 

Learning the nuances of a PVP sage will take a bit more time...but I'm going to give it a shot.

 

And if I confirm my concerns I will most definitely hit F1 to turn on Shadowplay, record me being ridiculous on a class I literally have no right to be ridiculous on, and reference back to this post with the video once its done.

 

Sound better than arguing about it? I think so.

 

See you in a few days....well maybe a week, The Witcher 3 may take up a lot of my time for a few days here.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ashes_Arizona

[sanchito]

...

There were also no other players involved in the fight at the start..this was Huttball after all, the pack tends to follow the ball...we singled out this Sage and cut her away from the group because she was single handedly keeping every ball carrier they had alive...and then we couldn't kill her for at least 20 - 30 seconds, til her back up arrived.

...

 

That actually does make some sense; If i have all my cooldowns available and can stay in the bubble for the full 8 seconds i can pretty much guarantee that i stay alive for 30 seconds against most 3 dps comps. It's what usually happens in 1 heal 3 dps arenas. Only thing that could kill me faster is probably a gank from 3 stealth.

 

You have to keep in mind though that the bubble has a very long cooldown, and i'm not doing anything while in the bubble. This is incredibly powerful when i have to hold a node until reinforcements come, but in every other scenario i often have to break the bubble early to prevent someone else from dying, which also reduces the enduring bastion shield after the bubble.

 

Also Mental alacrity gives 10 seconds of interrupt immunity on a 2 min cooldown, enduring bastion gives another 5 seconds from barrier, on a 3 min cooldown.

 

So it's very possible for a sage heals to look invincible for 20-30 seconds (8 of which he does nothing), but that means he used everything and will totally crumple afterwards and for the next 2 minutes or so.

[Karaiblis]

Have fun with that, heals are very rewarding sometimes, and everyone can almost always use good heals on their team. I hope you face many bads and get to feel powah, there are plenty out there. (I don't suggest standing in one place for long )

[Lhancelot]

Have fun with that, heals are very rewarding sometimes, and everyone can almost always use good heals on their team. I hope you face many bads and get to feel powah, there are plenty out there. (I don't suggest standing in one place for long )

 

Also, sage/sorc heals is the easiest to learn. It's easy and effective. But, you will see. facing 3 "good" dps you will not be chilling and relaxing as they pound away at you.

[Dak_fireraker]

This exactly. There's no way 3 dps were on this sage, and they were using interrupts and stuns and they couldn't force her bubble quickly.

 

Claiming people are bads is not fair, but the proclamation that sages can withstand 3 "good" dps on them without breaking a sweat for substantial time is also not fair (or true).

 

Only way any healer withstands 3 dps on them is if the dps are not very good, or are not using any interrupts (which some would argue is being not-so-good).

 

1 really good dps can give a good healer problems. 2 good dps on a good healer will overwhelm the healer pretty quickly, and 3 good dps on one healer will force that healer to have to blow all emergency buffs asap.

 

I play both a Sage & Sorc Healers. Most people that I WZ with will agree I am rather good & I have to agree with Lhancelot. My healers can usually shrug off 1 DPS that wont leave them alone while healing my team mates. 2 DPS will force me to focus on me & run away. 3 & I'm in trouble b/c I just get multi-stunned/interupted till I'm done. I have to believe in your example that the stuns & interrupts were missing. If DPS are going to let my healers free cast They will out heal you all day long.

[Dealdrick]

Listen I don't care if a healer is better than me....this isn't a pride thing for me.

 

I was not taunted, I have my BUFFs/DEBUFFS at 1.25 in UI scale, I pay very close attention to what pops up there. There was no guard bubble around this sage....I know what it looks like. I have a level 60 Vigilance Guardian and a level 50 Jugg Immortal and a level 50 PT-AP from 2012...I'm familiar with tank mechanics. They were not in play in this instance....I would have recognized them.

 

There were also no other players involved in the fight at the start..this was Huttball after all, the pack tends to follow the ball...we singled out this Sage and cut her away from the group because she was single handedly keeping every ball carrier they had alive...and then we couldn't kill her for at least 20 - 30 seconds, til her back up arrived.

 

The fact that you people keep having to go for the "L2P" and "Deal with it shes better than you" in some kind of morose attempt to sit me down is kind of concerning. This isn't about the size of my e-*****...this is a direct observance of something so ridiculously unbalanced I can't believe anyone would defend it.

 

So, you start a thread with an inflammatory title, use the word "literally" ad nauseum in the OP and describe a situation that is essentially impossible if all the "facts" you have listed are true, then you get butthurt when people call BS. Ya......

 

Anyone that makes a reference to their PvE rotation while complaining about a healer in PvP is probably facing some L2P issues. Using your interrupt and stun on CD also screams L2P. Knowing what to interrupt and when to do it is how you kill healers in MMO PvP.

 

If 3 dps really did PvE a sage in huttball without him kiting (in the OP you claim he "literally" stood there and ignored you) them and just face tanked you, I would love to see a video of it.

[Dak_fireraker]

I would sooner believe the dude was hacking than three remotely competent dps couldn't kill an unguarded sage with pve gear.

 

 

All things being equal & Ashes is being truthful about being a decent DPS & in PVP gear. Then i agree, this SAGE had to be hacking. there is NO way a sage healer out heals a properly geared DPS while only in PVE gear, not to mention 3 dps. the SAGE would be melted. Sorry Ashes, the class isn't OP, that player just needs to be reported.

[zhaiyan]

That actually does make some sense; If i have all my cooldowns available and can stay in the bubble for the full 8 seconds i can pretty much guarantee that i stay alive for 30 seconds against most 3 dps comps. It's what usually happens in 1 heal 3 dps arenas. Only thing that could kill me faster is probably a gank from 3 stealth.

 

You have to keep in mind though that the bubble has a very long cooldown, and i'm not doing anything while in the bubble. This is incredibly powerful when i have to hold a node until reinforcements come, but in every other scenario i often have to break the bubble early to prevent someone else from dying, which also reduces the enduring bastion shield after the bubble.

 

Also Mental alacrity gives 10 seconds of interrupt immunity on a 2 min cooldown, enduring bastion gives another 5 seconds from barrier, on a 3 min cooldown.

 

So it's very possible for a sage heals to look invincible for 20-30 seconds (8 of which he does nothing), but that means he used everything and will totally crumple afterwards and for the next 2 minutes or so.

 

It makes sense that a healer could live for a while against 3 dps... But u need to kite rather than just stand there as the OP said. U need to slow push stun lift them, u need to run away, position urself well and pick the right time to cast or cast in moving. Face tank is never an option unless u are really really lucky (like in OP's case if the sage's 10% defense chance mitigates two mauls and one 100% crit vicious throw/furious strike)

[sanchito]

It makes sense that a healer could live for a while against 3 dps... But u need to kite rather than just stand there as the OP said. U need to slow push stun lift them, u need to run away, position urself well and pick the right time to cast or cast in moving. Face tank is never an option unless u are really really lucky (like in OP's case if the sage's 10% defense chance mitigates two mauls and one 100% crit vicious throw/furious strike)

 

i agree, generally, but if you have force speed on cd with a mara and 2 sins on you you're not going anywhere, so might as well pop stuff and hope to survive until speed comes back.

 

Basically i agree that ops claims have no merit, but if you took the exact right 25 seconds out of a longish sage healer gameplay vid i can see how it might look that way

[Ashes_Arizona]

i agree, generally, but if you have force speed on cd with a mara and 2 sins on you you're not going anywhere, so might as well pop stuff and hope to survive until speed comes back.

 

Basically i agree that ops claims have no merit, but if you took the exact right 25 seconds out of a longish sage healer gameplay vid i can see how it might look that way

 

I'll make sure I get more than 25 seconds. If I can prove this, I will, I'm not just sitting here blowing wind.

 

And yes I use the word "literally" far too much, its a bad habit of mine.

 

But I will literally show this to be a feasible possibility, or I will show that I was mistaken. Unlike most PVP complainers, I am more than willing to test and prove or overturn my own claims.

[sanchito]

I'll make sure I get more than 25 seconds. If I can prove this, I will, I'm not just sitting here blowing wind.

 

And yes I use the word "literally" far too much, its a bad habit of mine.

 

But I will literally show this to be a feasible possibility, or I will show that I was mistaken. Unlike most PVP complainers, I am more than willing to test and prove or overturn my own claims.

 

That's very commendable, but consider this:

 

i play sage heals since launch, and for a while we did a lot of duels in the guild. Against a good serenity shadow/ hatred sin, i always lose, but unless i make a really huge mistake early on it will take a few minutes. I can basically chose between healing all the damage and running out of force, and healing force neutral and running out of HP. The only damage i do is from stuns slows and knockbacks.

 

Now there are better sage healers than me, quite a lot of them probably, but they are not THAT much better. No sage healer can duel a good serenity shadow and casually heal through the damage and dps him down. Maybe the best can just so outheal the damage in a force neutral way and keep going indefinitely, but i doubt they will be able to outdps serenity strike / force leech. Either way it's gonna be really close. And that's against 1 serenity shadow.

 

There's just no way any sage healer can stand up sustainably against 2 good dps, and against 3 good dps it's extremly difficult to live a full minute, and that is with medpack adrenal and grenade. Sages are strong, agreed, healing generally might be a bit too strong, but it's certainly not as bad as your op makes it sound.

Edited May 18, 2015 by sanchito

[NikSunrider]

That's very commendable, but consider this:

 

i play sage heals since launch, and for a while we did a lot of duels in the guild. Against a good serenity shadow/ hatred sin, i always lose, but unless i make a really huge mistake early on it will take a few minutes. I can basically chose between healing all the damage and running out of force, and healing force neutral and running out of HP. The only damage i do is from stuns slows and knockbacks.

 

Now there are better sage healers than me, quite a lot of them probably, but they are not THAT much better. No sage healer can duel a good serenity shadow and casually heal through the damage and dps him down. Maybe the best can just so outheal the damage in a force neutral way and keep going indefinitely, but i doubt they will be able to outdps serenity strike / force leech. Either way it's gonna be really close. And that's against 1 serenity shadow.

 

There's just no way any sage healer can stand up sustainably against 2 good dps, and against 3 good dps it's extremly difficult to live a full minute, and that is with medpack adrenal and grenade. Sages are strong, agreed, healing generally might be a bit too strong, but it's certainly not as bad as your op makes it sound.

 

Aye.

Healers aren't out-DPSing jack sith, and in ranked, when you're up against good players, you can die REALLY fast (speaking from experience).

 

Bad DPS are how we survive.

[qwopicus]

inb4 guarded w/ crossheals

 

(I despise Sorc/sage healers because of their skill-optional status, but situations like this don't happen with geared players. 3 mediocre DPS in 162s will put a healer down solo.)

[leonlotus]

L2P issue. On a warzone training dumby, in full Dark Reaver, any average DPSer should be able to parse at least 3k sustained (a "good" one will push 4k). So 3x3k=9k DPS. Add in 3 interupts and 3 hardstuns, there is no healer in this game that would be able to facetank that.

 

My friend, youre telling us of numbers as if the Sage/Sorc and their team, would be frozen in time. No bubbles, no running, no CCs, and no DOTs.

 

Aside from that, healing abilities are overpowered and every PvPer know that. 2 good DPS full geared in ranked, can be totally free to hit a Merc, without bringing him down for too long time. Long enough to make rest your party fight like theres 1 guy missing.

[AdrianDmitruk]

inb4 guarded w/ crossheals

 

(I despise Sorc/sage healers because of their skill-optional status, but situations like this don't happen with geared players. 3 mediocre DPS in 162s will put a healer down solo.)

 

Also consider that sage/sorc heals weren't always like this.

 

Those of us who stuck through corruption healing through the dark days of h2f, l2p, make them pay and got good at it while the class was at its weakest look like gods now that the class was actually given access to the mobility and CC needed to play defensively/make them pay.

 

There are some situations, with some utility setups, that are worth standing your ground instead of running for a time (probably up to about a minute assuming the sorc's CCs are properly rotated). These mostly come up in objective play, and the sorc might have been trying to hold you 3 dps in one spot for as long as he could while the ball went the other direction. The really good sorcs know when to run...and when not to, because few know what to do with a sorc who stands his ground and doesn't melt.

 

I suspect the sorc you were going against probably had the 30% damage reduction while stunned utility in the heroic tier, as that in combination with some CC options makes a blind, uncoordinated, stun-n-gun that much more difficult.

 

The skill level of some sorc healers (I'm talking about the ones who stuck it out through the worst, mostly, not the FOTMs) might be higher than some DPSers are comfortable with. 3.0 raised the skill ceiling of what the best sorc healers can do at least to the point of where operative healers were in their glory days, when they were the only viable PVP healer.

[Jake_Chambers]

Lol if anything dps is too strong, more hp but dps hits have gotten a lot higher (and not just on pvers), I don't see any healer crit-ing for 20k. There's a reason tanks exist lol Edited May 19, 2015 by Jake_Chambers

[detora]

My friend, youre telling us of numbers as if the Sage/Sorc and their team, would be frozen in time. No bubbles, no running, no CCs, and no DOTs.

 

Aside from that, healing abilities are overpowered and every PvPer know that. 2 good DPS full geared in ranked, can be totally free to hit a Merc, without bringing him down for too long time. Long enough to make rest your party fight like theres 1 guy missing.

 

I gave rough numbers because the OP was basically parsing on some sage healer (e.g., face tanking). So yes, "frozen in time" as you say. Like a training dumby.

 

Only bad DPS complain about how overpowered healing is in PvP. Trust me, healing in 3.0 is absolute AIDS against good players that know how to focus fire, CC and interrupt.

[Lalainnia]

Honestly this is mostly likely just bad dps nothing more. If the poster doesn't want to add that they were being cross healed with guard or used multiple cds threat drop talented+adrenal or force barrier things like that. From what i can see it doesn't seem like it based on what information they gave. Ofc it could be hax......but I've personally only seen two incidents of actual hacking. One was a sorc that would that would speedhack and an assassin that was teleporting In arenas.

[leonlotus]

I gave rough numbers because the OP was basically parsing on some sage healer (e.g., face tanking). So yes, "frozen in time" as you say. Like a training dumby.

 

Only bad DPS complain about how overpowered healing is in PvP. Trust me, healing in 3.0 is absolute AIDS against good players that know how to focus fire, CC and interrupt.

 

Go to Leaderboars and see Solo>All Advanced Classes.

Compare the number of Sages/Sorcs in the 1 page, with other classes. How many Maras or Juggs do you see?

Theres quite a number of Sins, and thats easy to see why:

 

The class balance is being oriented around PvE for quite some time. Thats why some of them or some specs are OP and others are just not, for PvP. Thats not news for anyone. Sins for example, were not a preffered class for Operations. So, what happened in last season? The leaderboards were full of it. They nerfed it a little, after much trouble in the forums. But we are seeing healers getting OP now, because of difficuties of new Operations and modes, and such.

 

We PvPers can accept some disadvantages, to continue playing with the classes we like more, but everyone of us, have our limits. Subs are going away because of this, and so, PvP is dying. Open world almost dont exist anymore in the server i play.

 

And my friend, i only play this game for Open PvP, so i am very experienced. Theres no combat situation, that i did not see before.

 

I think Sorcs/Sages and Operatives/Scounds should get a boost on DPS and be nerfed on healings. It should get combats much more dynamic, and freeing the PvP a little more of Operations mechanics.

Edited May 19, 2015 by leonlotus