Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Degarmo]

It seems to me that everyone in PvP would be facing the same "handicap" so therefore, working from that premise, it would behoove you to learn the "rhythm method" and go do your pwning with your uber adaptiveness.

 

I am in full agreement with those that are talking about a rhythm. Things go very smoothly when you figure out the syncopations of the battle.

[Zironic]

I'm not alone when I say this, but I already have canceled my sub due to terrible combat. I would have been more than willing to continue to paying for ToR for a few months while they installed the other basic things like a moddable UI and combat log, but this ability lag is just killing it for me.

This is a pet peeve of mine. I find all the 'I've cancelled my account' posts to be really wierd. This is because from my perspective you can't possibly truly say you've cancelled before your account is actually frozen and at that point you can't really post at the forum either.

 

This is because my account is permanently cancelled, not because I've always quit the game, but because I don't trust game devs with my CC, I simply give them the CC details of a card with exactly enough money to pay the subcription money and my account gets automatically cancelled at the end of the period at which point I hand them new CC details.

 

This means I -could- say that I've cancelled my account for X and Y reason, but it would be a lie since as noted, I'm always cancelled.

All that aside, the BioDrones pretending that nothing is wrong with TOR are doing an injustice to the game. Saying that this is nothing but 70+ pages of trolling makes you out to be blind fanboys that would still play the game if all it was was spamming a button while attacking a target dummy just because it was designed by BioWare.

 

It isn't the TOR-haters that are trolling in this this thread. It's the same 2 or 3 people who are trying to convince us nothing is wrong but when they're confronted, they change their story and say that this is how the game is supposed to work.

 

Meh, it's only like 2-3 trolls, just ignore them. This thread has actually been refreshingly free of 'go back to wow' posts, most people seem to consider this a legitimate issue. It's not like poorly responsive controls are favourable to anyone.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Zironic

[Ulgae]

More than pretty frustrating indeed and needs immediate intervention. It is always about making the game playable in a satisfactory level for everyone and all people here are more than willing to overlook some minor even major faults. But this is what makes the game unplayable after a few frustrating moments and make me go back to something else.

[Caramel_Ham]

I'm not alone when I say this, but I already have canceled my sub due to terrible combat. I would have been more than willing to continue to paying for ToR for a few months while they installed the other basic things like a moddable UI and combat log, but this ability lag is just killing it for me.

 

A bunch of people from my WoW guild bought ToR to play on the side after we finished Heroic Dragon Soul in roughly a month from now but I can just not justify paying for more than the 30 days included with the game with the ability lag. I'm a level 37 Jedi Shadow but even as a melee it's definitely noticeable. If I try and Low Slash right after using Double Strike or Project so that I can use a Find Weakness proc, half the time a a GCD with be triggered but no low slash will go out and I'll be standing their looking like a retard. This is extends for using a lot of abilities after a Double Strike or Project.

 

I've played rogue for 7 years in WoW (and still do) and have grown use to the fluid combat. If BioWare doesn't see the need to address it ASAP I don't see the need to give them $15 a month since it's just going to be a bad omen for any lack of Quality Assurance in the future. It's a shame though because a 2nd big name MMO that had close to the same size as WoW would mean that developers would not become complacent with going months without content updates.

 

All that aside, the BioDrones pretending that nothing is wrong with TOR are doing an injustice to the game. Saying that this is nothing but 70+ pages of trolling makes you out to be blind fanboys that would still play the game if all it was was spamming a button while attacking a target dummy just because it was designed by BioWare.

 

It isn't the TOR-haters that are trolling in this this thread. It's the same 2 or 3 people who are trying to convince us nothing is wrong but when they're confronted, they change their story and say that this is how the game is supposed to work.

 

hahaha /end thread

 

Even though i havent cancelled my subscription yet as i quite enjoy the rest of the game. I will if they dont fix this or even acknowledge that they are looking into it.

 

I also played a rogue in WoW, not as long as you did, but certainly our play style was all about reaction times.

[tehmoose]

I would LOVE! to have a game which requires the "flow" and not the speed alone.

But right now, to get into the flow you have to disconnect the GCD, the normal CDs, the casting time and the animation. And that is certainly not "the flow" (which, again, I would love to have)

 

That would be pretty awesome actually. No GCD, just an animation CD.

 

You could watch what your character's doing and maybe queue up the next ability for fluid combat.

 

This is the only game where I've actually gotten irate at my character for not doing what I wanted her to.

[tehmoose]

hahaha /end thread

 

Even though i havent cancelled my subscription yet as i quite enjoy the rest of the game. I will if they dont fix this or even acknowledge that they are looking into it.

 

I also played a rogue in WoW, not as long as you did, but certainly our play style was all about reaction times.

 

 

Also a rogue. Being in rhythm with everything was a thing of beauty.

 

The 1.5sec GCD is killing me. It feels sooo slow aside from the unresponsiveness.

Edited December 26, 2011 by tehmoose

[AlkalineKitten]

Even if it is a design philosophy, to have the fancy animations, why would the animations be timed longer than the actual abilities.

 

That just seems wrong.

[AlkalineKitten]

Also a rogue. Being in rhythm with everything was a thing of beauty.

 

The 1.5sec GCD is killing me. It feels sooo slow aside from the unresponsiveness.

 

When this was brought up last week, it was argued that WoW's GCD was the exact same time.

 

Not sure what that means for ToR.

 

Fury/Prot Warr, I feel the Rogue pain.

Edited December 26, 2011 by AlkalineKitten

[Taboo]

It seems to me that everyone in PvP would be facing the same "handicap" so therefore, working from that premise, it would behoove you to learn the "rhythm method" and go do your pwning with your uber adaptiveness.

 

I am in full agreement with those that are talking about a rhythm. Things go very smoothly when you figure out the syncopations of the battle.

 

This has been stated before, but I have to bring up a point that; if you think this affects everyone equally and should just be adapted to, wouldn't you just prefer BioWare to do the work (and their job) of fixing it for everyone?

 

Also, people have come to this thread and said "I don't have this problem" so apparently it's not everyone who is being equally affected, although I don't believe many of them have really tested it so who knows for sure.

[Phenyr]

Same issue here on melle. Doesnt happen all the time but when it does it is in most unfortunate moments, at least on boss fights when is much faster spam of skills.

 

For me as a casual player not such a big deal but I hope they fix this pretty soon on the other hand for those who wanna do hardcore raids this is a big problem.

 

You can wipe cos of this issue at least from tanks and healers point of view...

[LastOrisan]

All I have to say is to look at LotRO.

 

It had really slow movement and animations when the game first came out. Like, all interactions with your character were as if you were underwater. A lot of subs complained about it, then Turbine lost a lot of subs (for more reasons than that too). They eventually improved 'combat responsiveness' to some degree after what, a couple of years since launch?, and now it's F2P and at a dead end.

 

If this game doesn't do the same, and soon, a lot of people will be leaving for greener pastures, even if they don't really understand what 'combat responsiveness' is. Now, this game isn't as bad as lotro was in that department, but it's enough to bother a lot of people in pvp, and I assume, raids. That isn't just lag, latency, or fps problems you see in pvp.

 

Either fix it now, and increase the chances of gaining and retaining subs, or fix it 2 years from now and go F2P like the rest of the failures. Saying 'working as intended' when it comes to this will NOT work, history says otherwise.

Edited December 26, 2011 by LastOrisan

[tehmoose]

Even if it is a design philosophy, to have the fancy animations, why would the animations be timed longer than the actual abilities.

 

That just seems wrong.

 

Yeah. Take another ability. The Trooper's Mortar Blast. This ability is a 3 sec channel, that shoots 3 balls of mortary death at a group of baddies that are just gonna have their day ruined.

 

3 sec channel right? So, 3 sec animation...?

 

No. The actual ability animation is only about 1.5 seconds long. The first second and a half you just kinda... stand there.

[Corwingeorge]

This has been stated before, but I have to bring up a point that; if you think this affects everyone equally and should just be adapted to, wouldn't you just prefer BioWare to do the work (and their job) of fixing it for everyone?

 

Also, people have come to this thread and said "I don't have this problem" so apparently it's not everyone who is being equally affected, although I don't believe many of them have really tested it so who knows for sure.

 

the people who 'dont have this issue' play slowly enough to not notice

[tehmoose]

When this was brought up last week, it was argued that WoW's GCD was the exact same time.

 

Not sure what that means for ToR.

 

Fury/Prot Warr, I feel the Rogue pain.

 

And yes, for the most part the GCD in WoW is a second and a half.

 

Except for Rogues. And Feral Druids. And I think some casters with obscene amounts of haste.

 

Its similar in Rift too. 1.5 secs for 3, and 1 sec for rogues. I can immediately tell the difference going from warrior to rogue there. But, there's still a connection to pressing flame spear, and seeing a spear of flame shoot at the bad guy.

[Taboo]

the people who 'dont have this issue' play slowly enough to not notice

 

Yeah that's also what I am assuming.

[Leilei]

Not true.

I have just found that if a mash keys my DPS goes through the floor as I end up cancelling half my actions.

IF I get in the right rhythm I have zero issues and things go very smoothly, and my DPS goes way up.

 

Too many games are dependent on how fast you can hit a key, this is not one of them.

This one requires you to get with the flow.

 

I am not arguing that the timers do need a slight increase so it is clearer.

But it doesn't change the fact the spamming keys gives you no advantage in this game in fact it actually works against you.

 

This does not happen to me. Which is weird based on how people describe the problems o.o HAve you setted your queue time to 0?

[chrisftw]

All I have to say is to look at LotRO.

 

It had really slow movement and animations when the game first came out. Like, all interactions with your character were as if you were underwater. A lot of subs complained about it, then Turbine lost a lot of subs (for more reasons than that too). They eventually improved 'combat responsiveness' to some degree after what, a couple of years since launch?, and now it's F2P and at a dead end.

 

If this game doesn't do the same, and soon, a lot of people will be leaving for greener pastures, even if they don't really understand what 'combat responsiveness' is. Now, this game isn't as bad as lotro was in that department, but it's enough to bother a lot of people in pvp, and I assume, raids. That isn't just lag, latency, or fps problems you see in pvp.

 

Either fix it now, and increase the chances of gaining and retaining subs, or fix it 2 years from now and go F2P like the rest of the failures. Saying 'working as intended' when it comes to this will NOT work, history says otherwise.

 

that must explain why its so successful now AMIRIGHT?

[Vigilate]

Also a rogue. Being in rhythm with everything was a thing of beauty.

 

The 1.5sec GCD is killing me. It feels sooo slow aside from the unresponsiveness.

 

Personally, the 1.5 GCD doesn't bother me since I've been playing a Ret Paladin as long as my rogue and nothing was more twitch based than 2pc T10. That's offtopic, though.

 

The basic problem is that abilities just don't go off when they should. The fact that it takes two seconds for a supposedly instant attack to deal damage because your character has to do a fancy animation is just not fun. You mise as well give it that two second cast time.

[Fujitasix]

I think the worst of it is if you're CC'ed while using an attack or mash a hotkey right after getting CC'ed, it triggers the GCD and you can't use Tenacity.

 

The rest of the mushy combat is also frustrating, and needs immediate improvement. Serious raiding or competitive PvP would be impossible right now.

[dcinnitt]

that must explain why its so successful now AMIRIGHT?

 

Why TOR is so successful? No. It doesn't. What explains why it's so successful is because it's Star Wars. Also, people are putting up with it waiting for a fix. Just like people waited for a fix on LOTRO. But that still died. Like this will eventually if it takes the same approach.

[AlkalineKitten]

that must explain why its so successful now AMIRIGHT?

 

LOTRO?

 

Yeah, it's really successful, actually, I'm happy for it.Their numbers and profits went up when they did the F2P/microtransaction model.

 

I played it back when it was a subbed game, and even then, the amount of developer interaction, polish, unique class mechanics (mmm, Warden), and attention to detail in every aspect of the game, from PvP, PvE, Skirmishes, Raiding, Personal Story...

 

It's a ridiculously polished and underrated MMO, and they're doing really well for themselves. New expansion just recently hit, too.

Edited December 26, 2011 by AlkalineKitten

[Nanotech]

I'm not alone when I say this, but I already have canceled my sub due to terrible combat. I would have been more than willing to continue to paying for ToR for a few months while they installed the other basic things like a moddable UI and combat log, but this ability lag is just killing it for me.

 

A bunch of people from my WoW guild bought ToR to play on the side after we finished Heroic Dragon Soul in roughly a month from now but I can just not justify paying for more than the 30 days included with the game with the ability lag. I'm a level 37 Jedi Shadow but even as a melee it's definitely noticeable. If I try and Low Slash right after using Double Strike or Project so that I can use a Find Weakness proc, half the time a a GCD with be triggered but no low slash will go out and I'll be standing their looking like a retard. This is extends for using a lot of abilities after a Double Strike or Project.

 

I've played rogue for 7 years in WoW (and still do) and have grown use to the fluid combat. If BioWare doesn't see the need to address it ASAP I don't see the need to give them $15 a month since it's just going to be a bad omen for any lack of Quality Assurance in the future. It's a shame though because a 2nd big name MMO that had close to the same size as WoW would mean that developers would not become complacent with going months without content updates.

 

All that aside, the BioDrones pretending that nothing is wrong with TOR are doing an injustice to the game. Saying that this is nothing but 70+ pages of trolling makes you out to be blind fanboys that would still play the game if all it was was spamming a button while attacking a target dummy just because it was designed by BioWare.

 

It isn't the TOR-haters that are trolling in this this thread. It's the same 2 or 3 people who are trying to convince us nothing is wrong but when they're confronted, they change their story and say that this is how the game is supposed to work.

 

Yes, keep telling yourself that i'm a troll and that I think the game is perfect. Your baseless accusations are pure fiction. I have made several arguments throughout beta and since release against many of the design choices Bioware made. I choose one to support and all of a sudden i'm a fanboy/troll/Biodrone. No, the truth is that while people act like they appreciate objectivity and people act like they want to solve the problem, really all they want to do is to complain and conform. You have achieved both, congrats. Now go back to WoW.

Edited December 26, 2011 by Nanotech

[hargrave]

I think the issue is the universal cooldown. I personally dont have this issue but i did in lotro. Im not sure why they have the universal cooldown but that was a good point about setting your action response setting like the poster said. Ive have mine at 0.0 i think ive been trying different settings to see but overall i dont have the issue. The one issue i have is the combat animation for ravage is still buggy i bug reported it in beta 3 months or so ago = /

 

I do have to say it makes me curios what it would be like without the universal cooldown sometimes. I have a feeling it might be to fast but not sure.

 

As for comparing this to lotro lmao dont get me started. I have yet to see skill lock on here happen to anyone yet. Not saying it hasnt but lotro you get such bad skill lock on there that your skills would que up or burn your cd after your dead lol like 1-5 minutes later. Ill take universal cooldown and sane devs over a virtual grocery store thats lotro become

Edited December 26, 2011 by hargrave

[mohkhan]

I completely concur broskittles.

[Taboo]

Yes, keep telling yourself that i'm a troll and that I think the game is perfect. Your baseless accusations are pure fiction. I have made several arguments throughout beta and since release against many of the design choices Bioware made. I choose one to support and all of a sudden i'm a fanboy/troll/Biodrone. No, the truth is that while people act like they appreciate objectivity and people act like they want to solve the problem, really all they want to do is to complain and conform. You have achieved both, congrats. Now go back to WoW.

 

Why does he have to go back to WoW to get fluid and responsive gameplay?

 

Why can't he get fluid and responsive gameplay in SWTOR?