Healing reduced by 30% in pvp. WHY!?

[DarthOvertone]

I want and am entitled to a THOROUGH explanation as to why this is necessary.

 

NOW.

 

Not later.

 

NOW.

 

Um...Healing in PvP is not reduced to 30%. You actually can heal at full power in Open World PvP.

 

Oh wait...you were talking about WZs? There's your mistake. WZs are carebear PvP. Who cares if Healing is nerfed there. There's your answer.

[Lindraskada]

Um...Healing in PvP is not reduced to 30%. You actually can heal at full power in Open World PvP.

 

Oh wait...you were talking about WZs? There's your mistake. WZs are carebear PvP. Who cares if Healing is nerfed there. There's your answer.

 

23 page thread say someone cares.. nice try tho, but not really

 

2/10

[rlellis]

Exceedingly simple answer.

 

Healers are designed to heal through raid bosses that hit like trucks.

 

Players don't hit as hard as bosses. If healers are still capable of healing through raid boss damage, nobody in pvp they heal would ever die. Bioware clearly learned from WoW and fixed a major problem in PvP

[Lindraskada]

Exceedingly simple answer.

 

Healers are designed to heal through raid bosses that hit like trucks.

 

Players don't hit as hard as bosses. If healers are still capable of healing through raid boss damage, nobody in pvp they heal would ever die. Bioware clearly learned from WoW and fixed a major problem in PvP

 

not true

they cant heal through a raid boss

 

thats what epic gear + damage mitigation + tank abilities are for

[DarthOvertone]

23 page thread say someone cares.. nice try tho, but not really

 

23 pages of confused Carebears...

 

What is this world coming to?

[Lindraskada]

it never ceases to amaze me how -right- people who play on PVP servers think they are, and how bitter their tears of rage when they are proved wrong. happens in every game. silent majority laugh at you.. keep telling yourself how pro you are.. we got over that when we grew up

[CHRISGG]

See, the difference here is that this game got this nifty little ability called Guard. It even has something called Taunt. When you combine skilled tank + Guard + Taunt, healing becomes very, very powerful. If there would be no debuff, healing would be way too powerful. I'm with a skilled tank and I almost feel OP as it is.

 

So. Should we remove Guard and Taunt just so healers can feel like they're in some other game, or... should we keep everything as it is and hope that people actually get a clue and start to use the tools given to them?

 

I absolutely love it when people start the "Well, if you have Guard, you can live against 1 player" posts. They're my favorite. I guess when you're that bad, small things like not dying to 1 player make you feel special or something.

[Stratoforce]

Healing is fine. I primarily heal and its tough, but it works. If I am left alone, I can keep up a teammate who has 2-3 people on him. I can keep myself up with 1-2 people interrupting and hitting me. This is about where it should be. I think it encourages CC and more creative play from us, not just heal spamming.

 

 

I love liars.

[Morkatog]

There is only one simple reason why this should be patched which can not be argued: medals.

Let's repeat that: medals.

 

You get medals for 75k and 300k damage and healing, but DPSers are allowed to do their maximum damage and will get these medals a lot easier then a healer. As for the 5k healing medal, how the hell am I ever supposed to get that before having a full set of battlemaster gear? I have very good PvE gear (about 500 + healing) since the PvP tokens won't ever drop from chests, but I will never be able to dish out the 5k crit heal in it, while it is so badly needed to be able to get commendations at the same rate as any other player.

[Hamstaxo]

simple game of numbers

my 1,8sec casttime singleheal hits a pvp debuffed player for 1,9k

most damage classes to a lot more than 1,9k in that 1,8 seconds

not to mention that i got to click the target first, have to stand still, net beeing interrupted, etc

healers are the a-holes of the game.

we get less medals

our healspecs don't give us enough advantage of the "i heal my self" hybrids

[Repefe]

simple game of numbers

my 1,8sec casttime singleheal hits a pvp debuffed player for 1,9k

most damage classes to a lot more than 1,9k in that 1,8 seconds

not to mention that i got to click the target first, have to stand still, net beeing interrupted, etc

healers are the a-holes of the game.

we get less medals

our healspecs don't give us enough advantage of the "i heal my self" hybrids

 

Here is a suggestion ... don't heal in warzones. You are doing nobody a favor by playing the healer. PvP is about dying, PvE is about being alive the whole fight. Games like Dota, LoL, GW2 give up the old concept of healing babysitters and it's a great thing. Healing is fun in PvE, but it make for huge balancing issues in PvP and it's buzz kill more often than not.

 

Plus you don't understand the value of healing ppl. It's not a matter of simple numbers. Going by the numbers is why healing in WoW for example is so broken and boring mechanic to counter.

[Hamstaxo]

i was a healer in DAoC so i am a healer here

healers should be healers, tanks should be tanks, and dps should be dps

but there is so much hybrid bs going on that it doesnt matter what spec i chose its all the same bs

like rift

[NovaGrantham]

Healing needed to be reduced in PVP, otherwise we have the broken architecture of PVP combat that WoW has where healers are unkillable and able to facetank multiple DPS. It was an unfun mechanic for everyone but the healers in WoW and, frankly, not all of us want to be one of you and should have every right to not have to experience that style of play.

 

This is far closer to Warhammer and DAoC PVP balance than WoW, and thank God for that, as those things are what those games got right (and PVP was one of the things Blizzard routinely was clueless about). I speak from major experience in that regard (2 years as a PVP tank in DAoC, Realm Rank 80 in Warhammer, Rank 14 and Gladiator in WoW). The best, most engaging PVP has always been the games that require tank/dps/healer (just like pve! shock!) and not WoW's screwed up DPS/Heals only requirement.

 

Healers have to be able to die. Yes, that means when just one player is attacking them sometimes, if that one player outplays them. Warzones should require teamwork to win and excel in, and that goes for everyone.

 

Healers need tanks to guard them and DPS to kill for them. Tanks need healers to keep them up and running and DPS to kill for them. Melee DPS need tanks to keep snares and armor breaks up and heals to keep them running. Ranged DPS needs heals and a tank to keep those heals alive.

 

If you can't survive or feel you can't heal with the trauma debuff, you need to find a tank friend. And don't whine about how you shouldn't have to, because as a tank, I have to find a healer and that's life. Break your old habits and expectations. The balanced team is what this game needs for you to achieve success, not a couple healers and a horde of DPSers.

 

As of today, I grouped with a 44 Operative because my normal partner was at work. Due to not dying (thanks to Guard, taunts, CC, etc) she pulled 300K healing multiple WZs throughout the afternoon and my guarded numbers reached 120K at one point. We tore our way through WZs thanks to that, and had far, far more fun than if I had been DPS spec. I can't wait for her to hit 50.

 

(And a quick note about PUGs: They suck. They always suck. They always will suck. If you're not queuing with at least one other friend, you have no one to blame but yourself when you're rolled. Healer, DPS, or Tank, that's life.)

Edited January 8, 2012 by NovaGrantham

[Hamstaxo]

ok than just double all health and leave everything like it is

at least this would stop 3 second deaths

if you want that tank healer and dps can play out their stuff they need at least a second time to react. i got an cc which i cant use because it has a 2sec casttime and i dont have the time to actually stop healing

and for huttball just give the carrier a 200% dmg debuff

 

problem solved

[OccisorDK]

Obvious answer: because else the healing would be to high.

[Choppaman]

Healing needed to be reduced in PVP, otherwise we have the broken architecture of PVP combat that WoW has where healers are unkillable and able to facetank multiple DPS. It was an unfun mechanic for everyone but the healers in WoW and, frankly, not all of us want to be one of you and should have every right to not have to experience that style of play.

 

This is far closer to Warhammer and DAoC PVP balance than WoW, and thank God for that, as those things are what those games got right (and PVP was one of the things Blizzard routinely was clueless about). I speak from major experience in that regard (2 years as a PVP tank in DAoC, Realm Rank 80 in Warhammer, Rank 14 and Gladiator in WoW). The best, most engaging PVP has always been the games that require tank/dps/healer (just like pve! shock!) and not WoW's screwed up DPS/Heals only requirement.

 

Healers have to be able to die. Yes, that means when just one player is attacking them sometimes, if that one player outplays them. Warzones should require teamwork to win and excel in, and that goes for everyone.

 

Healers need tanks to guard them and DPS to kill for them. Tanks need healers to keep them up and running and DPS to kill for them. Melee DPS need tanks to keep snares and armor breaks up and heals to keep them running. Ranged DPS needs heals and a tank to keep those heals alive.

 

If you can't survive or feel you can't heal with the trauma debuff, you need to find a tank friend. And don't whine about how you shouldn't have to, because as a tank, I have to find a healer and that's life. Break your old habits and expectations. The balanced team is what this game needs for you to achieve success, not a couple healers and a horde of DPSers.

 

As of today, I grouped with a 44 Operative because my normal partner was at work. Due to not dying (thanks to Guard, taunts, CC, etc) she pulled 300K healing multiple WZs throughout the afternoon and my guarded numbers reached 120K at one point. We tore our way through WZs thanks to that, and had far, far more fun than if I had been DPS spec. I can't wait for her to hit 50.

 

(And a quick note about PUGs: They suck. They always suck. They always will suck. If you're not queuing with at least one other friend, you have no one to blame but yourself when you're rolled. Healer, DPS, or Tank, that's life.)

 

You aren't a gladiator in WoW. Nice try though.

 

Edit: And you weren't rank 14, and furthermore, you also aren't rank 80 in war

Edited January 8, 2012 by Choppaman

[Narw]

Healing needed to be reduced in PVP, otherwise we have the broken architecture of PVP combat that WoW has where healers are unkillable and able to facetank multiple DPS. It was an unfun mechanic for everyone but the healers in WoW and, frankly, not all of us want to be one of you and should have every right to not have to experience that style of play.

 

 

 

1500 rating baddie detected, nothing to see here, move along.

 

PS- healers in WoW die fast, you just need to have SLIGHT clue what you are doing.

 

Also i like how you continue with writing how bad WoW pvp is while its ONLY mmo that was at least close to e-sport status. You know what e-sport status is? It's something that implicates game is balanced.

 

SWToR is horrible mistake from pvp side of view, and i unsubscribed couse of that already. as im not gonna waste my time on such traversy. I wont continue bashing balance couse its basicly not existant at this point (i actually dont blame Bioware too much, its hard to balance that type of game early relase) but some design points like constant MS in game plagued by interupts and unbreakable cc's and abysmal healing frames is unaceptable.

[warkat]

Obviouly you haven't tried to kill a heavy armor healer who is biochem whos stims/heals+Heavy Armor+Huge HP Potion when you interrupt there heal...

[Mirokumayasaki]

I wouldn't have an issue with the 30% debuff for heals in pvp if the lag in pvp was fixed already. I don't mind someone dying due to me running out of ammo from having to spam less potent heals, but if they die because my 1.9 sec healing spell takes 3 seconds to cast a second time... =[

[Lindraskada]

 

Healers need tanks to guard them and DPS to kill for them. Tanks need healers to keep them up and running and DPS to kill for them. Melee DPS need tanks to keep snares and armor breaks up and heals to keep them running. Ranged DPS needs heals and a tank to keep those heals alive.

 

If you can't survive or feel you can't heal with the trauma debuff, you need to find a tank friend. And don't whine about how you shouldn't have to, because as a tank, I have to find a healer and that's life. Break your old habits and expectations. The balanced team is what this game needs for you to achieve success, not a couple healers and a horde of DPSers.

 

and therein lies the entire problem. healers NEED someone else, as do tanks to a lesser degrees. DPS can still bounce around you like an adhd 12 year old, dribble on the keyboard, and win, but thats ok, cos their sense of entitlement outweighs anything else.

[NovaGrantham]

and therein lies the entire problem. healers NEED someone else, as do tanks to a lesser degrees. DPS can still bounce around you like an adhd 12 year old, dribble on the keyboard, and win, but thats ok, cos their sense of entitlement outweighs anything else.

 

I find unsupported DPS pretty damn squishy. Ops/Scoundrels are the hardest things to deal with at the moment and Lightning/Pebble spec Sorc/Sages are rough, too. Look at the 'Don't bring a Lightsaber to a Gunfight' thread, though.

 

They're whining about not bringing everything that an Immortal/Defense specced Jugg/Guardian brings to the table (snared, armor reduction, etc) and instead of, say, bringing said class to get a balanced group, they want it handed to them.

 

I'd say, like it is with any class, even the DPS works better in a balanced group scenario.

[Lindraskada]

the only other thing i would add, is i dont understand the TTK issue with healers. at all. ive played healers for quite a while (swtor, war, aion, w*w, daoc, ) and ive never seen such rubbish about dps being unable to kill healers. ever. and whoever said that healers were easy to kill in daoc, has never played with/against a good one, sorry :/

 

now dont get me wrong, i know its a hard life, and pressing "insert stun mechanic here" and then smashing your face into your keyboard is a hard thing for anyone to achieve, but when did the concept of ASSISTing suddenly disappear ? you cant kill me/a tank/a training dummy ? REALLY ? then BRING A FRIEND you cretin. stop feeling you should be able to solo any situation.

 

and one other thing. as a rough estimate, cos i dont know the real numbers, but from what ive seen, the ratio of players is something like : healers: tanks: dps as 1 : 1 : 4

so we are trying to heal 4x as many peoples output. and i know we shouldnt be able to , cos then nobody dies. but you can switch target if youre a dps you know, it is allowed. the concept of beating on someone who is guarded/immune/being healed has for long been seen as a "noob" "scrub" thing for dps to do, and yet here we are with all the "pros" claiming that not only is it a good thing but that they should have no problem winning that scenario. boggles the mind

[DistortionXII]

idiot decision....nuff said

[Atralis]

I'm going to pull from WoW experience.

 

I don't know the current state of the game. But there was a long LONG while where as a Warrior I had to keep the healing debuff on the enemy, time my interupts PERFECTLY, time my CC breaking perfectly, have everything off Cool downs, and time my dps rotation perfectly to burst a guy down in the little gaps I could find in order to keep a Paladin, Shaman, or priest from facerolling me to death.

 

"Gawd your such a noob if you don't immediatly break cc with ability A, and then close the distance with ability B, then interupt me with ability C, then slow me with ability D, and then dps me down with abilities E,F,G, and H in that order and then repeat that a few more times.

 

And thats what it took to counter a healer casting his little stun/root then casting a basic heal.

 

And God forbid there isn't at least one DPS on the healer that has perfected that little game or the whole match is lost.

 

That isn't balanced.

[Repefe]

now dont get me wrong, i know its a hard life, and pressing "insert stun mechanic here" and then smashing your face into your keyboard is a hard thing for anyone to achieve, but when did the concept of ASSISTing suddenly disappear ? you cant kill me/a tank/a training dummy ? REALLY ? then BRING A FRIEND you cretin. stop feeling you should be able to solo any situation.

 

and one other thing. as a rough estimate, cos i dont know the real numbers, but from what ive seen, the ratio of players is something like : healers: tanks: dps as 1 : 1 : 4

so we are trying to heal 4x as many peoples output. and i know we shouldnt be able to , cos then nobody dies. but you can switch target if youre a dps you know, it is allowed. the concept of beating on someone who is guarded/immune/being healed has for long been seen as a "noob" "scrub" thing for dps to do, and yet here we are with all the "pros" claiming that not only is it a good thing but that they should have no problem winning that scenario. boggles the mind

 

It goes both ways ... healers being solo fountains of health is ok, because pugs should coordinate to down them. I used to give mvp to healers ... but not anymore and I see others do the same. PvP is about killing, PvE about surviving.

 

As for the 1:1:4 ratio ... it is not enforced. You get wz with 2-3 healers from time to time and it's basically 15 minutes of swimming against current kind of thing. Not to mention if one side has healer and other doesn't it's huge advantage that with otherwise equal teams will win you the games.

 

tl;dr It's impossible to balance in pugs which is ok if you are into premades, but sucx otherwise.